Post: #51

After looking at the facts of what happened, I think its sort of a hack position to believe that this is evidence of a larger trend or of some sort of racial retaliation for Eric Garner and Michael Brown. It reminds me of the people blaming Elliot Rodgers insanity on "misogyny" while ignoring all the men that he killed. This guy shot (some stories say he murdered) his black girlfriend in the morning, and then went on to kill two non-white cops. The guy was a raving lunatic who was likely severely menally ill, not some martyr for any cause. He's on instagram posting 50 Cent lyrics talking about killing people right before he goes out and does it, those are the actions of a crazy person.

Post: #52

(12-20-2014 10:01 PM)Peregrine Wrote:  A healthy society depends on respect for the rule of law and those who enforce it. Individual patrol cops aren't the problem, even the bad ones. They're just symptoms of a diseased system.

Quote:I am entirely okay with the cops in this country knowing that a gun could be put on them at any moment. This militarized police force has gotten way out of hand.

Putting the fear of God into cops won't demilitarize them. It'll just make them want to load up even more. And they'll get their wish, because the ruling class is in favor of a militarized police and a police vs citizens conflict. Less focus on the crimes of the powerful.

I agree somewhat with the rule of law, however, a lot of the respect of rule of law is based on a respect for the government. In an era where people don't respect their government, they aren't going to respect those who enforce their will. As the forefathers had the insight of seeing, a balance of power is the only way of maintaining a respect for law.

The historian Carol Quigley also pointed out that the most liberty in any society occurs when the citizens are armed, as much as those enforcing the laws. It's the only way of balancing power and keeping governments from abusing power. The simple fact is when you know you have amored trucks on your side, you're going to be more wary of making mistakes.

That being said, cops who are not invested or a part of black cities or communities are never going to achieve major breakthroughs in crime, and the thought that they would is absurd. The simple fact is most cops don't live in such environments, and thus based on a survival instinct are going to be forced to stereotype and profile citizens, just like soldiers do when occupying a war-zone, which ultimately antagonizes the vast majority of citizens who are not criminals.

The cure to the problems in the black community, are relatively simple, that citizens who do not commit crimes should be encouraged to arm themselves and push back on their own gangs and criminals, but that's never going to gain much political support anyways: on the right, encouraging "welfare recipients" to arm themselves is a travesty, and on the left, being on the side of the NRA is an abomination. So yeh, nothing's going to change, same arguments, same events that occurred in the 60's and 70's will just continue to go on.

Post: #53

Quote:The cure to the problems in the black community, are relatively simple, that citizens who do not commit crimes should be encouraged to arm themselves and push back on their own gangs and criminals, but that's never going to gain much political support anyways: on the right, encouraging "welfare recipients" to arm themselves is a travesty, and on the left, being on the side of the NRA is an abomination. So yeh, nothing's going to change, same arguments, same events that occurred in the 60's and 70's will just continue to go on.

The police chief in Detroit did just that when some homeowners took things into their own hands and opened up on a bunch of thugs trying to break into their homes.

As I recall there was plenty of discussion on both sides, however in the end it is pretty difficult to argue against someones ability to protect themselves. And the law abiding citizens will only take so much.

Post: #54

(12-20-2014 10:36 PM)Lord_Perseus Wrote:  

(12-20-2014 09:55 PM)Veloce Wrote:  

(12-20-2014 09:13 PM)Hotwheels Wrote:  I'm not a huge fan of cops, but celebrating two of them being gunned down just because they are cops is not something I will ever do.

I would never celebrate the death of two cops either.

I'm not about to dig in their past and see if they were good cops or bad cops and try to play judge here. I don't really care. In fact, I'll assume that they were good guys and cared about their community, and this murder is a tragedy. I'll happily assume that.

That said, I look at this story from a big picture perspective and in some way, this incident gives me reassurance.

I am entirely okay with the cops in this country knowing that a gun could be put on them at any moment. This militarized police force has gotten way out of hand.

You can't possibly be naive enough to think this won't lead to an escalation on the part of the police. I am no fan of the increasing militarization of local police forces but this incident will most assuredly put an end to any thoughtful effort to draw down policing to something a bit more suitable for everyday society. You definitely do not want the cops being afraid of any degenerate walking up to them & blowing their brains out.

The people don't trust the cops & the cops don't trust the people. Nothing good comes from this but if this dynamic keeps getting even worse than it already is, the cops will prevail. The have the money, muscle & firepower, which when civilized methods fail is what wins out

And they have the support of MOST DECENT LAW ABIDING AMERICANS. Despite the protesters, most normal middle class to upper class citizens prefer an orderly ,safe environment with others following law and order. I don't think these people even feel sorry that a overweight criminal died by crushing himself. They probably think he shouldn't have broken the law.
In residential areas , suburbs where people own their own homes..people don't want this element. In liberal cities where people pay rent and have no attachment, funny how they are quick to protest.

Take away their welfare and most of those protesters wouldn't have shown up.

I feel sorry for decent lower class people though. They need the police the most and the thug/gang element is a dangerous reality they deal with and now they have to worry about their area becoming less patrolled or a war zone..again.

These same old ladies are thankful when they leave their apt and they see cops 20 feet away from 20 blood and crip members sitting in the courtyard.

Hopefully the cops will see this as an isolated incident and chalk it up to a line of duty. The killer was a lone dog it seems.

Post: #55

(12-20-2014 10:40 PM)J DOE Wrote:  After looking at the facts of what happened, I think its sort of a hack position to believe that this is evidence of a larger trend or of some sort of racial retaliation for Eric Garner and Michael Brown. It reminds me of the people blaming Elliot Rodgers insanity on "misogyny" while ignoring all the men that he killed. This guy shot (some stories say he murdered) his black girlfriend in the morning, and then went on to kill two non-white cops. The guy was a raving lunatic who was likely severely menally ill, not some martyr for any cause. He's on instagram posting 50 Cent lyrics talking about killing people right before he goes out and does it, those are the actions of a crazy person.

Exactly..he is a sick guy who wanted to kill himself(suicide by cop). Shouldn't he have killed local cops from his own town though?
1 st we have sex tourists, then love tourists, now murder tourists!

Post: #56

jimukr104 said;

"It is written procedure and I understand why it is so but since no one else here is trained in Law enforcement in housing telling you the potential dangers is not my obligation. Does a doctor have to explain every technical thing he does on an operation table to an outsider? EXACTLY!"

Remember when dateline style shows made it a fad to cover surgeon corruption etc.? I'm sure that the media discovered that it's easiest to create sensational narratives from police activities by making complicated situations appear tragically simple. The national news networks do the same with war coverage. "The marines are shooting unarmed Iraqis with cellphones! This nice man with a jihadi bandana and AK is here as a witness to the event!".

The real question is...

How far and to what degree should police bother to explain their activities without causing further confusion or harm upon themselves by counter operations of organized crime?

Post: #57

It definitely is strange Brinsley (black himself) would pick two minority officers (Hispanic & Asian) when the problem seems to be white cops getting away with unjustifiably killing black men.

If anything, he made himself look very stupid in the process of trying to get his point across.

Post: #58

(12-21-2014 03:55 AM)la_mode Wrote:  It definitely is strange Brinsley (black himself) would pick two minority officers (Hispanic & Asian) when the problem seems to be white cops getting away with unjustifiably killing black men.

If anything, he made himself look very stupid in the process of trying to get his point across.

Yes, but we've seen how protestors lack the minuscule amount of brain cells to process and acknowledge basic facts such as these.

Post: #59

Good point. It's generally fair to question the intelligence of anyone willing to participate in a chant.

Post: #60

(12-21-2014 04:11 AM)Praetor Lupus Wrote:  

(12-21-2014 03:55 AM)la_mode Wrote:  It definitely is strange Brinsley (black himself) would pick two minority officers (Hispanic & Asian) when the problem seems to be white cops getting away with unjustifiably killing black men.

If anything, he made himself look very stupid in the process of trying to get his point across.

Yes, but we've seen how protestors lack the minuscule amount of brain cells to process and acknowledge basic facts such as these.

I consider it grossly dishonest to consider this psychopath to be a "protestor". Like I said in my last post, it isn't any different than feminists trying to associate Elliot Rodger with any man that they happened to disagree with. He was a psychopathic killer, obviously he behaved irrationally.

Post: #61

(12-21-2014 04:38 AM)J DOE Wrote:  

(12-21-2014 04:11 AM)Praetor Lupus Wrote:  

(12-21-2014 03:55 AM)la_mode Wrote:  It definitely is strange Brinsley (black himself) would pick two minority officers (Hispanic & Asian) when the problem seems to be white cops getting away with unjustifiably killing black men.

If anything, he made himself look very stupid in the process of trying to get his point across.

Yes, but we've seen how protestors lack the minuscule amount of brain cells to process and acknowledge basic facts such as these.

I consider it grossly dishonest to consider this psychopath to be a "protestor". Like I said in my last post, it isn't any different than feminists trying to associate Elliot Rodger with any man that they happened to disagree with. He was a psychopathic killer, obviously he behaved irrationally.

I'm not. I'm expecting the Ferguson et al protestors to link this case to those incidents when the link is tenuous at best, simply because they believe it furthers their cause. Everyone there seems to be ignoring the facts - Brown was not an innocent victim. Why not claim that this is a consequence of that incident when it most likely wasn't?

Post: #62

(12-20-2014 10:40 PM)J DOE Wrote:  After looking at the facts of what happened, I think its sort of a hack position to believe that this is evidence of a larger trend or of some sort of racial retaliation for Eric Garner and Michael Brown. It reminds me of the people blaming Elliot Rodgers insanity on "misogyny" while ignoring all the men that he killed. This guy shot (some stories say he murdered) his black girlfriend in the morning, and then went on to kill two non-white cops. The guy was a raving lunatic who was likely severely menally ill, not some martyr for any cause. He's on instagram posting 50 Cent lyrics talking about killing people right before he goes out and does it, those are the actions of a crazy person.

Here's where we really run into the challenge of valuing freedom of speech. The media have used their free speech to spew out a bunch of rhetoric that Michael Brown and co. were all racially motivated instances of police brutality, presumably to try and stir up more chaos to keep the media cycle going, and it seems to have motivated this loony to go out and shoot a couple cops.

I'll defend their right to lie incessantly and spin everything to fit a bullshit liberal pc marxist narrative, but I also defend my right to call them a bunch of bottom-feeding pusillanimous ass-sucking cum-guzzling hack faggots that render mainstream media wholly unfit for consumption if one wants to obtain anything remotely resembling "news", whose degrees in journalism are about as worthwhile as the used toilet paper stewing in my septic tank after a rough night of marked-down fried chicken from the grocery deli.

Post: #63

Another Cop killed in Florida. This shit is getting interesting.

Post: #64

Let's just say this, if African Americans want to continue killing cops the alternative of volunteer militiamen won't be nearly as pretty.

The second the police stop fighting is when armed militias start doing work. Blacks sure as hell don't want a pick up truck of die hard 2nd amendment folks doing safety checks for them lest they be mulled down for acting out.

Post: #65

Being a cop is a dangerous job. But let's get real. They chose that job voluntarily. They weren't drafted. They chose that job for the high salary, benefits and pension plan that comes with it not for the honor or glory like they want you believe. So if random guys want to roll up kill a few cops I'm not upset about it. It comes with the territory. If you don't want to be shot at then don't be a cop.

Post: #66

(12-21-2014 08:43 AM)Parlay44 Wrote:  Being a cop is a dangerous job. But let's get real. They chose that job voluntarily. They weren't drafted. They chose that job for the high salary, benefits and pension plan that comes with it not for the honor or glory like they want you believe. So if random guys want to roll up kill a few cops I'm not upset about it. It comes with the territory. If you don't want to be shot at then don't be a cop.

A lot of cops understand that. The criticism coming from the police, is how the government/media is taking the side of SJWs. Thus making policing already difficult areas into a completely no win situation.

Post: #67

(12-21-2014 09:02 AM)Constitution45 Wrote:  

(12-21-2014 08:43 AM)Parlay44 Wrote:  Being a cop is a dangerous job. But let's get real. They chose that job voluntarily. They weren't drafted. They chose that job for the high salary, benefits and pension plan that comes with it not for the honor or glory like they want you believe. So if random guys want to roll up kill a few cops I'm not upset about it. It comes with the territory. If you don't want to be shot at then don't be a cop.

A lot of cops understand that. The criticism coming from the police, is how the government/media is taking the side of SJWs. Thus making policing already difficult areas into a completely no win situation.

Yeah well you can't have it both ways. The media is full of annoying women and fags. I've done work in many advertising and marketing companies in NYC and I see what goes on there.

As much as I'm against feminists and gays I'm more against killer cops that abuse their power. Shit I just hate everyone.

Post: #68

(12-21-2014 09:07 AM)Parlay44 Wrote:  

(12-21-2014 09:02 AM)Constitution45 Wrote:  

(12-21-2014 08:43 AM)Parlay44 Wrote:  Being a cop is a dangerous job. But let's get real. They chose that job voluntarily. They weren't drafted. They chose that job for the high salary, benefits and pension plan that comes with it not for the honor or glory like they want you believe. So if random guys want to roll up kill a few cops I'm not upset about it. It comes with the territory. If you don't want to be shot at then don't be a cop.

A lot of cops understand that. The criticism coming from the police, is how the government/media is taking the side of SJWs. Thus making policing already difficult areas into a completely no win situation.

Yeah well you can't have it both ways. The media is full of annoying women and fags. I've done work in many advertising and marketing companies in NYC and I see what goes on there.

As much as I'm against feminists and gays I'm more against killer cops that abuse their power. Shit I just hate everyone.

Its not really a situation of good v evil here. The SJW despise the police because they represent the last bastion of "white patriarchy". Even though ironically enough a lot of police officers in big cities aren't white. They are trying to tackle this head on, by jumping on the bandwagon of that Brown fella in Ferguson and the other ones. They don't care about the facts, its all based on emotion.

It will be interesting to see what comes out of this.

Post: #69

(12-21-2014 08:43 AM)Parlay44 Wrote:  Being a cop is a dangerous job. But let's get real. They chose that job voluntarily. They weren't drafted. They chose that job for the high salary, benefits and pension plan that comes with it not for the honor or glory like they want you believe. So if random guys want to roll up kill a few cops I'm not upset about it. It comes with the territory. If you don't want to be shot at then don't be a cop.

This is a wildly ignorant statement. I've seen people make the transition from Criminal Justice major, to seasonal Ranger, to a full-time Officer. I don't know of a single one who chose that career path for the pay. Also, they would have to be a complete idiot to do so, because police pay is not impressive: $28k average to start and $47k median pay in the U.S., and if you're in a conservative state your benefits and pension plan are mediocre at best, and on top of that there's little union support. Do some hourly officers milk overtime? I'm sure they do. Just like you and I would if we were in that position, to help our families or what not. But police officers by and large do it for the badge and the accomplishment, and the best do it to keep others safe.

Post: #70

(12-21-2014 10:33 AM)Avarence Wrote:  

(12-21-2014 08:43 AM)Parlay44 Wrote:  Being a cop is a dangerous job. But let's get real. They chose that job voluntarily. They weren't drafted. They chose that job for the high salary, benefits and pension plan that comes with it not for the honor or glory like they want you believe. So if random guys want to roll up kill a few cops I'm not upset about it. It comes with the territory. If you don't want to be shot at then don't be a cop.

This is a wildly ignorant statement. I've seen people make the transition from Criminal Justice major, to seasonal Ranger, to a full-time Officer. I don't know of a single one who chose that career path for the pay. Also, they would have to be a complete idiot to do so, because police pay is not impressive: $28k average to start and $47k median pay in the U.S., and if you're in a conservative state your benefits and pension plan are mediocre at best, and on top of that there's little union support. Do some hourly officers milk overtime? I'm sure they do. Just like you and I would if we were in that position, to help our families or what not. But police officers by and large do it for the badge and the accomplishment, and the best do it to keep others safe.

I beg to differ

Quote:Who are America’s fastest-growing class of millionaires? They are police officers, firefighters, teachers and federal bureaucrats, who, unless things change drastically, will be paid something near their full salaries every year–until death–after retiring in their mid-50s. That is equivalent to a retirement sum worth millions of dollars.

http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2010/0628/o...-door.html

Post: #71

(12-21-2014 10:38 AM)Parlay44 Wrote:  I beg to differ

Quote:Who are America’s fastest-growing class of millionaires? They are police officers, firefighters, teachers and federal bureaucrats, who, unless things change drastically, will be paid something near their full salaries every year–until death–after retiring in their mid-50s. That is equivalent to a retirement sum worth millions of dollars.

http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2010/0628/o...-door.html

Hey, you want a piece, there's no problem. They're hiring constantly in law enforcement in California where I worked in the prisons.

Cops get 3% pension per year, so if you work 20 years you would get a pension of 60% of your salary.

Go ahead, if you think it's such a good deal, Work 20 years as a cop keeping the most heartless and stupid people off the streets.

See how you like it.

What bothers me is some of the people who criticize civil servants are doing some of the most parasitic shit imaginable, investment banking, skimming cash off the middle of transactions, creating and building NOTHING.

Post: #72

(12-21-2014 10:46 AM)iknowexactly Wrote:  

(12-21-2014 10:38 AM)Parlay44 Wrote:  I beg to differ

Quote:Who are America’s fastest-growing class of millionaires? They are police officers, firefighters, teachers and federal bureaucrats, who, unless things change drastically, will be paid something near their full salaries every year–until death–after retiring in their mid-50s. That is equivalent to a retirement sum worth millions of dollars.

http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2010/0628/o...-door.html

Hey, you want a piece, there's no problem. They're hiring constantly in law enforcement in California where I worked in the prisons.

Cops get 3% pension per year, so if you work 20 years you would get a pension of 60% of your salary.

Go ahead, if you think it's such a good deal, Work 20 years as a cop keeping the most heartless and stupid people off the streets.

See how you like it.

What bothers me is some of the people who criticize civil servants are doing some of the most parasitic shit imaginable, investment banking, skimming cash off the middle of transactions, creating and building NOTHING.

I'm not saying I want a piece. I'm saying they chose their line of work. It was a conscious choice to be a cop. And they have to take the good with the bad of making that choice.

They could have just as easily gone into construction or IT or a million other careers where they wouldn't have to dodge bullets for a living. So a dead cop once in a while is par for the course.

Post: #73

(12-21-2014 10:46 AM)iknowexactly Wrote:  

(12-21-2014 10:38 AM)Parlay44 Wrote:  I beg to differ

Quote:Who are America’s fastest-growing class of millionaires? They are police officers, firefighters, teachers and federal bureaucrats, who, unless things change drastically, will be paid something near their full salaries every year–until death–after retiring in their mid-50s. That is equivalent to a retirement sum worth millions of dollars.

http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2010/0628/o...-door.html

Hey, you want a piece, there's no problem. They're hiring constantly in law enforcement in California where I worked in the prisons.

Cops get 3% pension per year, so if you work 20 years you would get a pension of 60% of your salary.

Go ahead, if you think it's such a good deal, Work 20 years as a cop keeping the most heartless and stupid people off the streets.

See how you like it.

What bothers me is some of the people who criticize civil servants are doing some of the most parasitic shit imaginable, investment banking, skimming cash off the middle of transactions, creating and building NOTHING.

Yep ,shits no where near as easy as people think. Missing holidays, no xmas bonuses, long shifts, constant departmental bullshit, media breathing down your back for every mistake, interacting with assholes that despise YOU because THEY broke the law. Constantly being on guard. Responding to out of control situations with inebriated and unpredictable individuals. Try it if you wanna knock it.

Military gets 2.5% per year and the majority retire at 20 years, earning 50% salary for life including free benefits. I dont think I need to list what they (or at least a good amount of them) sacrifice.

A congressman serves one term and gets 100% salary for life.

Which one of out the three makes the least sense?

Post: #74

This is tragic. Tying it to the Michael Brown/Eric Garner case was inevitable, but I'm fearful of the big picture.

This is not a good thing for cops nor protesters. I find myself torn between sides, after hearing what my parents had to go through in the 70's, being told never to go near certain areas and such. I never want my children to live through that. I believe everything is cyclical, and now that crime rates have been down for about 20 years, it's about time to "challenge the system" since no one can remember when life was shitty and crime was high.

Listen, some of us may be libertarian oriented, but this murder is going to rally the silent majority. Most people couldn't give a fuck about MB/EG because it just seemed like horrible accidents/bad cop behavior, but now this police assassination gives them a reason to be vocal. On social media, in person, hell every 60 year old white male in the locker room was so bitter over this.

I can see a conflict brewing, and hell I can't stand for any side. The traditional conservatives can't see any bad the police do, the libertarians claim "we said this first", and don't even get me started about the liberals.

There is no right side. Just opinions.

Post: #75

(12-21-2014 08:43 AM)Parlay44 Wrote:  Being a cop is a dangerous job. But let's get real. They chose that job voluntarily. They weren't drafted. They chose that job for the high salary, benefits and pension plan that comes with it not for the honor or glory like they want you believe. So if random guys want to roll up kill a few cops I'm not upset about it. It comes with the territory. If you don't want to be shot at then don't be a cop.

Is being a law enforcement officer dangerous in reality or is it just dangerous on television shows and movies? Here is a chart from the Bureau of Labor Statistics National Census of Fatal Occupational Injuries.



and a quote from the report...

Quote:The number of fatal work injuries among protective service occupations was higher by 7 percent in 2013 to 247 fatalities. This was led by higher numbers of fatal injuries involving firefighting and prevention workers. Fatal injuries among firefighters rose 194 percent to 53 fatal work injuries from 18 in 2012. Two incidents alone accounted for over half of the 53 fatal injuries involving firefighters. Fatal work injuries among law enforcement workers were down 20 percent to a new series low of 97 fatalities.

Do you see parades, ceremonies and statues celebrating the guys working in the fields in the chart above? I have worked 3 of the jobs in this graph in the past, at no time did I feel I was in extreme danger.