Post: #51

Yep! Stop it.

Focus on interactions that don't have anything to do with losing your virginity or the existence of your virginity altogether. Don't be fooled; all of us here were virgins at some point but we have all developed strategies to work around that particular barrier.

Go for a hooker if you must but a real organic relationship and the bond formed is far more satisfying than paying a set amount for "Fine, I'll fuck you".

Post: #52

It's been a week since you strated this thread - haven't you fucked a hooker yet?

If so, good work, it wasn't thjat hard was it?

If not, do it immediately and report back in the morning.

Post: #53

boywonder34, I've been in your exact position with the same conundrum so hopefully I can lend you some insight.

I know that at times it can feel as though you're at war with yourself - your logical mind offering you direction while your dick is pointing at anything that moves.
While some may feel differently, the v-card is a burden. But not in a simple way.
Unfortunately it isn't a light-switch moment. Once you get your first bang, it's not going to get any easier from there on out. It's an informative and educational experience to be sure, but it's not an insta-cure for approach anxiety, shit-tests, logistics and all the rest.

Right now, it sounds to me as though you still have a sense of wonder about the physicality of the act i.e. what does it actually feel like to have your dick inside a pussy.
At first I was hesitant about how to lose mine, thinking mostly about my pride. But after conferring with other members of the forum I decided to visit a hooker.
I wasn't allowing logic and prudence to guide my actions. There was an opportunity readily available for me to get what I needed and I was denying myself.
Once the curtain was pulled back so to speak, it did help. I suspect it will for you as well.

My advice would be to hire a professional in Amsterdam to teach you the basics.
It goes without saying, but be sure to use protection, respect the rules and arrange to have a friend give you a security call just in case.

Post: #54

(09-13-2014 02:13 PM)boywonder34 Wrote:  I live in Europe

I hope you don't mind me asking, but do you happen to live in Germany or any similar country nearby?
If so, you must realize that you are probably living in one of the worst places in the world when it comes to women and the situation you are in is 100% not your fault.

Some members on this forum (who have not visited w. Eu.) still don't believe how bad life is for those of us who had the misfortune of growing up in a place like this.

As such, I can offer to give some practical advice of what to do related to life in western eu. And what to do next.

Remember: the situation you are in is NOT YOUR FAULT!!!

Post: #55

"What country in Europe are you based out of? Find out what online platforms are good there and try that."

I was born and raised in Australia. A few years ago i fed up with my lack of progress in learning game while my friends were out getting laid, getting married, starting families etc. I felt like I didn't belong anymore and thought fuck it, what can i do that they can't? So i quit my job and moved to the UK. i was hoping the change in scenery would give a me a new outlook, but i can never really run from my problems.

im not too keen on going to south east Asia since i just left that part of the world, and it is quite expensive to go back.

"I hope you don't mind me asking, but do you happen to live in Germany or any similar country nearby?
If so, you must realize that you are probably living in one of the worst places in the world when it comes to women and the situation you are in is 100% not your fault."

Would you consider the UK similar to Germany? I choose to put the blame on myself, not anything external. That means I have control over what happens.

Besides, even if it -is- one of the worst places in the world for women (I saw recent statistics that said 1/4 of all young women in the uk are obese), people are still getting laid. Im just grasping at straws to make myself one of them, and I was wondering if losing my virginity would help my game.

Im still very conflicted, however I dont feel so bad now about "staying true to myself". As blue pill beta that sounds, it is somewhat reassuring that being true to myself and trying to make the first time "special" is deemed "acceptable" because many replies have said to no to p4p for the same reasons I am against it.

The trip is still not for several weeks so im using the time from now till the trip to just up the number of approaches.

Havent fapped for 10 days straight, my nuts are heavy with ball juice and it is giving me an uncontrollable sense of urgency about this. I dont know if someone in my position should be doing no fap though. Drives a man fucking crazy.

Post: #56

(09-17-2014 02:44 PM)boywonder34 Wrote:  "What country in Europe are you based out of? Find out what online platforms are good there and try that."

I was born and raised in Australia. A few years ago i fed up with my lack of progress in learning game while my friends were out getting laid, getting married, starting families etc. I felt like I didn't belong anymore and thought fuck it, what can i do that they can't? So i quit my job and moved to the UK. i was hoping the change in scenery would give a me a new outlook, but i can never really run from my problems.

im not too keen on going to south east Asia since i just left that part of the world, and it is quite expensive to go back.

"I hope you don't mind me asking, but do you happen to live in Germany or any similar country nearby?
If so, you must realize that you are probably living in one of the worst places in the world when it comes to women and the situation you are in is 100% not your fault."

Would you consider the UK similar to Germany? I choose to put the blame on myself, not anything external. That means I have control over what happens.

Besides, even if it -is- one of the worst places in the world for women (I saw recent statistics that said 1/4 of all young women in the uk are obese), people are still getting laid. Im just grasping at straws to make myself one of them, and I was wondering if losing my virginity would help my game.

Im still very conflicted, however I dont feel so bad now about "staying true to myself". As blue pill beta that sounds, it is somewhat reassuring that being true to myself and trying to make the first time "special" is deemed "acceptable" because many replies have said to no to p4p for the same reasons I am against it.

The trip is still not for several weeks so im using the time from now till the trip to just up the number of approaches.

Havent fapped for 10 days straight, my nuts are heavy with ball juice and it is giving me an uncontrollable sense of urgency about this. I dont know if someone in my position should be doing no fap though. Drives a man fucking crazy.

Just say the word and I'll help you dude, the no fap thing makes you get out that door and approach!
When you said you did 4 approaches and they didn't pan out, that's just the norm, even pros like Nick Krauser had 250 numbers and only fucked 27, that's 1 out of 9 girls he got the number from (imagine how many said no to his number request) and these are guys who know what they are doing.

Persistence my friend.

No means maybe
Maybe is yes
And yes is anal

Post: #57

HEP C for which there is no cure. Why not just go abroad to meet women, that's the whole point of this forum.

Post: #58

(09-17-2014 02:44 PM)boywonder34 Wrote:  Would you consider the UK similar to Germany? I choose to put the blame on myself, not anything external. That means I have control over what happens.

Besides, even if it -is- one of the worst places in the world for women (I saw recent statistics that said 1/4 of all young women in the uk are obese), people are still getting laid. Im just grasping at straws to make myself one of them, and I was wondering if losing my virginity would help my game.

Yes. It might be even worse. The uk might be the single worst country on the planet in fact.

Unfortunately I have bad news for you, but don't despair, there is light at the end of the tunnel. But first things first:

Thanks to your age and lack of experience, you will most likely never experience a healthy relationship with a woman. The late teens and early 20s are a crucial phase in your life during which your relationship preferences are formed. Under normal circumstances it would be during these important years where you gather the experience necessary to live a healthy sex/love-life. It is during this time where your brain forms the habits that dictate the rest of your life. Whatever course you are set in during your teens/early 20s, is going to be the path for the rest of your time in this world and breaking those habits becomes increasingly difficult the older you get.
Unfortunately you have been denied access to those vital experiences and therefore you are now pressed into a position which require you to make some "unconventional" choices.

First of all, before even considering "losing virginity", you must grasp the economic reality of the situation you are in:
Your primary desire is to find a woman, yet all your investments that you made into society yielded no such return. Except for food and shelter, the vast majority of your time was taken from you, while never truly giving you the thing you need.

As such, the most sensible course of action for you to take is to become a minimalist. That way you make sure that nobody get more of your time/recourses than the absolute minimum. I.e. The less you "sacrifice" for society, the less taxes you pay, the less can be stolen from you.

Once you solved the economic predicament you are in, then you can attack the "virginity" problem. Take the final and most radical step you can and completely disengage yourself from your host-society, turn your back and say goodbye forever. Do this by taking that flight out of your country and never return.
Take all your time, talent, experience, money, creativity, skills etc, on board with you.

Which country you choose depends on your preferences, there is a lot of info about this on the forums right here. The general consensus is south east Asia and Latin America are the best places. Try to settle in one of those countries. And while it is unlikely that you will experience a healthy family life, at least you would make a big step forward in life.

I really hope this can help you and I wish you the best for the future.

Post: #59

(09-20-2014 01:14 AM)rhr Wrote:  Which country you choose depends on your preferences, there is a lot of info about this on the forums right here. The general consensus is south east Asia and Latin America are the best places. Try to settle in one of those countries. And while it is unlikely that you will experience a healthy family life, at least you would make a big step forward in life.

I really hope this can help you and I wish you the best for the future.

Where are you getting this info from? I know late bloomers all the time that start families and have good relationships with women. My aunt married her husband when both were in their late 30s, and they still together 14 years later (which is a record in my family probably). Neither of them were in serious relationships before that.

He has almost a full decade, if not more, to clean up his act with women. If relationships/pussy is what he wants, he'll have to go hell and high water to get it (requires total change in lifestyle) but it can be done if he wants it bad enough.

Post: #60

Double post.

Post: #61

(09-20-2014 11:03 AM)LemonDrink Wrote:  

(09-20-2014 01:14 AM)rhr Wrote:  Your primary desire is to find a woman, yet all your investments that you made into society yielded no such return. Except for food and shelter, the vast majority of your time was taken from you, while never truly giving you the thing you need.

As such, the most sensible course of action for you to take is to become a minimalist. That way you make sure that nobody get more of your time/recourses than the absolute minimum. I.e. The less you "sacrifice" for society, the less taxes you pay, the less can be stolen from you.

This is one of the most revolutionary things I had read on a pickup forum. Pickup forums tend to be positivity and you don't hear the other side of the coin (for e.g for a long time they were going on how its possible to pickup any chick). The view tends to be ''the world owes you nothing'' and ''its all your fault if you don't make it''. The individual is left to take the blame.

While most people are contributing to society and getting their full value in return. Could it be that there are people out there not getting their share of entitlement and society failed to help these types. Someone is 30something and they are still a virgin. No offends to the opening poster but that is not right.

Forget cold approaching, that is a bit of unusual way to meet women. While not denying the value of cold approach game, most people do not partake in it and still end up getting sex through other avenues.

Don't know how well the opening poster is doing in other areas of life but certainly in one area the OP could not favour society to help him.

Post: #62

(09-09-2014 04:32 AM)Vroom Wrote:  Absolutely bang a hooker. Hell, bang 2...but why do you need to stay behind after your friends have left to do it?

It shouldn't be a shameful thing, especially not when you're in Amsterdam.

This is the worst advice. Boywonder34 is better off staying a virgin than banging a hooker...shoot, his dick will most likely drown in that stretched pussy of hers, it'll be like pissing in a warm ocean.

Post: #63

"Do this by taking that flight out of your country and never return.
Take all your time, talent, experience, money, creativity, skills etc, on board with you"

That's exactly what I did - I left my friends and job in Australia to come to the UK, no where to live with no job. I gave myself a fresh start. As I said before, I was hoping the change in scenery would change my outlook, but you can never run from your problems.

"Someone is 30something and they are still a virgin. No offends to the opening poster but that is not right"

None taken and I agree, it would be quite the red flag if a woman I was seeing found out I was a virgin. What is wrong with him? He must have some sort of unresolved issues. He must be unable to form meaningful relationships with adults. These are all things that are in my mind whenever I think about my situation.

"Don't know how well the opening poster is doing in other areas of life..."

I would say im doing ok in all other area of my life. I followed the blue pill script, got good grades, went to college, got the post grad degree, i am financially secure.

"but certainly in one area the OP could not favour society to help him."

What do you mean, I should not expect any help from society? I certainly don't - my predicament is a result of my choices, and -only- my choices.

"The view tends to be ''the world owes you nothing'' and ''its all your fault if you don't make it''. The individual is left to take the blame."

This is one if my core beliefs. Everything I have done in my life has lead to where I am now. Is that not the case? It is my fault im a virgin, I can only blame myself. Is that not the red pill way of thinking?

Im on day 15 of no fap. Nuts are heavy with ball juice, im full up to my eyes. I can't walk down a street without fishing for eye contact. Past couple of days, I've been cold approaching on the street during the day. Since I started recording, im up to 13 out of 100. Of those, i got 2 numbers, but they never replied.

I was got a number on friday, she was smiling, asking me questions so i thought she will definitely reply. I was buzzed enough that i didnt approach 2 other girls i should have because i was too happy at getting the number.

I estimate I will get a number every 6 girls i approach. Every 5 numbers will result in a date. That means if I want a date, i will need to approach at least 30. Im almost halfway.

I figure i must be doing something right if im getting numbers and positive reactions when i talk.

Im going to go out again today. I only have my phone right now, but when i get my laptop back, i will setup the online dating profiles as cold approaches is the only way i currently meet women. Some posters have also pm'd me great advice, i will ask if i can post those here because i think they should be shared.

Post: #64

Your plan sounds OK to me provided that you work on your inner game as of today. Your Amsterdam trip will only give you temporary relief. Focus on your game. Get into the Roosh Program.

Post: #65

I recommend YOU DO NOT bang a hooker in Amsterdam. It is one thing to bang a hooker but to loose your virginity to one is disgraceful. Unless you have no morals you will be scarred for life. If you are truly a student of the game then you will overcome any obstacles in your way. Instead I recommend you do the following in Amsterdam:

1. Go to a downtown bar/club that is close to a hostel and has good ratio of tourists/backpackers vs locals
2. Go late, I am talking close to last call
3. Pick an ugly chick who is drunk and is by herself (unlikely) or just with a friend. (Don't, and I repeat DO NOT go for groups UNLESS you have a wingman).
4. "Shoot the breeze" then wine here as much as you can. You have limited time to make the impression as the bar is about to close but then again at this time if a chick is by herself and drunk there's a good chance she's got no bf or "vultures" circling around. Shoot, if she is not down for chilling just follow her out of the bar and offer to grab some late night food. Preferably your logistics are solid and the food cart will be across your apartment.
5. Make all the excuses in the book for her to come to your apartment. Use the classic line "I need to use the restroom, it will only take a minute".
6. Once she's in, offer a drink and offer a cigarette on the balcony (if she smokes).
7. Touch, kino, escalate. (No worries if you don't get a bang, at least go for 3rd base and learn from your success/failure that night...see next point)
8. Next day, meditate and repeat.

Post: #66

TripleG why do you seem to hate hookers so much?

Fuck all the 'scarred for life' noise. I think your too invested in perception of 'right' and 'wrong'. You realise that morality is entirely subjective right? He is definitely NOT better off staying a virgin than banging a hooker. I know we are all just sharing opinions and such but don't state it like your the all knowing all powerful morality adjudicator.

OP, a huge part of the reason your in this situation is cause you've probably been taking yourself way too seriously.

In my opinion it isn't helpful when guys shame the shit out of your proposed 'solution'. I don't think there is a need for it especially when they most likely don't have actual experience in paying for sex in any capacity.

However, TripleG's advice about gaming in hostel bars etcetera is sharp. I banged a cute American chick out of one of those bars when I was there back in February.

Just bang a couple of hookers when your out there. You have to understand that the 'meaning' of everything in life is completely and entirely subjective. It's only 'shameful' if you believe it to be so.

If you do bang a couple and you feel like you hate yourself for it or you feel ashamed or whatever. Then you should just remember that there are children starving all over the world and just get over yourself and take the next step to becoming a better man. People get way too caught up in the influence of others perception.

Bang a hooker. Cool.

Don't bang a hooker and stay a virgin until you acquire the necessary skills to get it done off your own back. Cool.

Straight up cash, an expensive meal, a new jacket and shoes, 3 months of gym membership, a few club cover fees or 3 hours of your time listening to her talk shit. We are all paying for it somehow.

Edit: OP, jariel just made an excellent thread on the main game forum about instincts. He talks about how men lie to themselves and seek validation sometimes just like women do. You made this thread for a reason. Trust yourself. The answer lies within.

Post: #67

(09-22-2014 12:47 PM)Blackwell Wrote:  TripleG why do you seem to hate hookers so much?

Fuck all the 'scarred for life' noise. I think your too invested in perception of 'right' and 'wrong'. You realise that morality is entirely subjective right? He is definitely NOT better off staying a virgin than banging a hooker. I know we are all just sharing opinions and such but don't state it like your the all knowing all powerful morality adjudicator.

OP, a huge part of the reason your in this situation is cause you've probably been taking yourself way too seriously.

In my opinion it isn't helpful when guys shame the shit out of your proposed 'solution'. I don't think there is a need for it especially when they most likely don't have actual experience in paying for sex in any capacity.

However, TripleG's advice about gaming in hostel bars etcetera is sharp. I banged a cute American chick out of one of those bars when I was there back in February.

Just bang a couple of hookers when your out there. You have to understand that the 'meaning' of everything in life is completely and entirely subjective. It's only 'shameful' if you believe it to be so.

If you do bang a couple and you feel like you hate yourself for it or you feel ashamed or whatever. Then you should just remember that there are children starving all over the world and just get over yourself and take the next step to becoming a better man. People get way too caught up in the influence of others perception.

Bang a hooker. Cool.

Don't bang a hooker and stay a virgin until you acquire the necessary skills to get it done off your own back. Cool.

Straight up cash, an expensive meal, a new jacket and shoes, 3 months of gym membership, a few club cover fees or 3 hours of your time listening to her talk shit. We are all paying for it somehow.

Edit: OP, jariel just made an excellent thread on the main game forum about instincts. He talks about how men lie to themselves and seek validation sometimes just like women do. You made this thread for a reason. Trust yourself. The answer lies within.

Blackwell, this is not a P4P forum and that type of talk is discouraged by most members and especially the moderators thus one of the reasons why i discourage the OP from going this route. Btw, thanks for acknowledging my hostel route, I forgot to add that just to get the V card out of the way the OP should lower his standards and just go for any chick drunk enough at a hostel bar who shows even moderate IOI's. I hear British & Australian backpackers make good targets...

Post: #68

I'm surprised nobody has recommended any middle ground/fast solutions to get easy girls, aside from "just bang some hookers". What is the fast track to getting some women for casual encounters?? Aim for soft targets that are also uninhibited (slutty, unattractive, or much older/younger women)? Night game venues? Online sites?

It sounds like OP needs a major lifestyle change, but that takes time to cultivate. In the meantime, he needs to get his rocks off a few times to ease his anxiety/anger/tension and help segue into that better lifestyle. I've never seen a hooker myself, but I can't imagine that helping a man's life situation much. Could help to temporarily blow off some steam, but within a week, you're still the same Joe with the same problems before you hit the hooker. Some casual dates materializing into a few pleasurable sexual encounters is what would help and where he needs to start, now.

Post: #69

I would also go for bang the ho! I think it might change your mindset, you will know that you have put the dick in and you don't have to worry about it anymore. Next time you meet a girl you can say to yourself that its easy, ive done it before.

Post: #70

"You made this thread for a reason. Trust yourself. The answer lies within."

I think this is the most "authentic" answer. Unfortunately im fundamentally not red pill and have been trying to change that. Since starting this thread, I've gone from:
-Should i p4p once?
-Ok, ill do it once
-might be worth doing it several times if im there
-yes, definitely do it several times when im there
-its better if i do it the hard (but better) way with someone slutty
-i still want it to be "special" so i should stay true to myself and do it with someone i like.

if I follow my instinct and do what feels right, it means doing it the hard way.

"Some casual dates materializing into a few pleasurable sexual encounters is what would help and where he needs to start, now."

Ever since starting this thread, I've been approaching more. Combined with the urgency and no fap, all I can do is think about this problem; my mind is consumed by it and I even think about it at work. I start to feel a bit anxious if I haven't ended the day with an approach, which I think is a good mindset to have.

What I will do is film myself and get feedback from the forum, but I would need to record the audio while someone films me from a short distance away then combine the audio and video.

I got a number last week and was hoping it would materialise into a date over the weekend just past, but she didnt reply.

Post: #71

(09-23-2014 05:48 PM)boywonder34 Wrote:  I got a number last week and was hoping it would materialise into a date over the weekend just past, but she didnt reply.

Boywonder,

You are in the UK! We have tons of forum members in the UK!

Start a thread about online game for noobs in the UK. I am sure lots of guys can help you out.

Also, see if someone will meet up with you. Go to the "meetups" section in travel and see if anyone in your city will go out with you and help show you the ropes.

You have tons of resources right at your fingertips don't keep going it alone

Post: #72

(09-23-2014 05:48 PM)boywonder34 Wrote:  I got a number last week and was hoping it would materialise into a date over the weekend just past, but she didnt reply.

Do these approaches multiplied by 40 until you get a handful of numbers and you will eventually get a bang.

Post: #73

As far as I know, there is only one other member near where I live in another city, but I want to increase my skill to be the same before meeting anyone.

Yesterday had my first instadate. After 2 approaches that didnt go anywhere, I sat down to think about what to do next. A girl who was on the line between plain and cute sat beside me.
I thought of the posts that said just drop your standards and go for it. She wasn't grotesque but she wasn't the typical girl I approach

We talked for a long time (maybe 30mins). I suggested we go grab a coffee, so went to a cafe and talked for about another 30 mins. To be honest I wasn't fully attracted to her so didnt do anything. When she crossed her legs I could see they weren't shaven and im a leg guy.

When we left, I thought, meh, legs can be shaved and asked for her number but she said she doesn't give her number out and gave me her fb. Don't worry, im not going to run fb game or pursue this.

as for today, I talked to a girl and i thought it was going well - she was laughing, asking me a lot of questions. Then she said she was still in school (final year, probably 17-18). I instantly thought well shit I can't do anything with this. What would you all have done (age of consent in the uk is 16). Would you have continued to game her like normal or do nothing?

She was waiting for her sister and when she turned up, I said "hey, I was just flirting with your sister for a bit". Her sister says "Oh. Awkward." I instantly recalled the RoK articles that said anything out of a girls comfort zone or out of the norm is instantly awkward or creepy. I smiled and said "it actually went better than I expected" as the girl I was talking to got up.

I was in half a mind to throw it back at her and say "only when you turned up" but I didnt see any point in being nasty right?

Im up to 20/100 approaches.

Post: #74

(09-28-2014 02:54 PM)boywonder34 Wrote:  She was waiting for her sister and when she turned up, I said "hey, I was just flirting with your sister for a bit". Her sister says "Oh. Awkward."

Yeah I agree, not a good move there...weve all been through it. Save the off the wall stuff for a deeper relationship.

Post: #75

You mean I shouldn't have said "just flirting with your sister for a bit"?

I was trying some self acknowledgment statements that heartiste wrote about here:
http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2014/09/1...ment-game/

When the girl told me she was waiting for her sister, I said, great, im going to flirt with you for 5 minutes. She laughed as I sat down beside her.