VVVV: I'm sorry to hear about your surgery. Physical health is something I still take for granted. Until I tweak something in the gym or come down with a bothersome cold. Then, after I feel fully better, I am vigorously grateful for my returned health. But then I always seem to forget again. I really should be more mindful and take a more active approach to being grateful for my physical health. The sick part is that when I was much younger I used to wish that I would injure myself. Thankfully it never happened. I may follow suit and start meditating.

I still do drink coffee. But I haven't drank or smoked pot or done any other drugs for close to 9 years. I recommend LOZ's Full Mormon. While perhaps not as severe as drinking, pot use for you does sound insidious. Smoking pot for me was an excuse to feel sorry for myself and resentful. It didn't make me forget my problems or the things I was depressed about; it exacerbated and deepened them. I had some underlying issues to work out -- mostly issues with my family.

One part of your post I was unclear about was the cause of the depression. Was the depression solely the result of the injury and the recovery or were the injury and recovery a springboard to feel depressed about other stuff? Because if the latter, while abstinence will help, it won't remove any underlying causes. Such was my experience anyway.

Maybe it's cliched or hokey, but I regularly repeat the serenity prayer when I'm depressed or experience unproductive thoughts I can't seem to push aside. Is it a cure all? Of course not. But I've found it helps me dramatically.

(03-14-2016 12:22 PM)VolandoVengoVolandoVoy Wrote:  So I've been thinking over what you have written, and I think restarting my wagon, full mormon style is the best choice.

I have a couple areas of concern though - TRT and tea/caffeine/coffee.

I already know the likely answer to my self prescribed TRT, that it is likely cheating and not a good idea. I started it up last week because I remembered how normal/good I felt when using and abusing testosterone in the past.

As for tea/caffeine/coffee, I am totally ok with eliminating coffee, also I don't drink energy drinks, so no issue there. But what about tea? The past few months I got into drinking high quality japanese green or white tea 2 or 3 times a day, sometimes on an empty stomach, and a rooibos tea at night after dinner.

The full Mormon way really is the best for guys with a depressive brain; try it and you'll see.

Messing with TRT is a terrible idea, as you realize. The thing you really don't want to experience is a true severe depression down the line; something different in kind from what you have now. Going on TRT just to feel good and then going off would be one way to try to bring it about. Don't do it.

I see nothing wrong with having one cup of tea a day, as long as it's not on an empty stomach (say after breakfast or lunch). Make it a daily ritual and enjoy it. But don't go beyond that. Rooibos is different because it's not really tea (it does not contain caffeine); but it is quite acidic so I would not go overboard with it either. But a cup of Rooibos after dinner should be fine.

Full Mormon; a regular sleeping/waking schedule (you should strongly consider getting a light box, also for general anti-depressant effect); a great diet with plenty of good proteins, fats, and greens and little sugar; regular exercise when you can do it, especially weightlifting; and you'll be doing fine in a matter of weeks if not sooner than that. Then just keep all the good habits and let them deepen as the weeks turn into months, seasons and years.

(03-14-2016 07:52 PM)PartManPartMonkey Wrote:  VVVV: I'm sorry to hear about your surgery. Physical health is something I still take for granted. Until I tweak something in the gym or come down with a bothersome cold. Then, after I feel fully better, I am vigorously grateful for my returned health. But then I always seem to forget again. I really should be more mindful and take a more active approach to being grateful for my physical health. The sick part is that when I was much younger I used to wish that I would injure myself. Thankfully it never happened. I may follow suit and start meditating.

I still do drink coffee. But I haven't drank or smoked pot or done any other drugs for close to 9 years. I recommend LOZ's Full Mormon. While perhaps not as severe as drinking, pot use for you does sound insidious. Smoking pot for me was an excuse to feel sorry for myself and resentful. It didn't make me forget my problems or the things I was depressed about; it exacerbated and deepened them. I had some underlying issues to work out -- mostly issues with my family.

One part of your post I was unclear about was the cause of the depression. Was the depression solely the result of the injury and the recovery or were the injury and recovery a springboard to feel depressed about other stuff? Because if the latter, while abstinence will help, it won't remove any underlying causes. Such was my experience anyway.

Maybe it's cliched or hokey, but I regularly repeat the serenity prayer when I'm depressed or experience unproductive thoughts I can't seem to push aside. Is it a cure all? Of course not. But I've found it helps me dramatically.

Thanks for the thoughtful post. Pot has indeed been a major problem for me. I used it extremely excessively for years, and was a pothead long before my alcohol use became alcoholic.
Depression is a long standing problem for me. In the past 14 years, I have had about 5 major and horrible episodes of clinical depression.
I'm sure that I have a genetic tendency towards depression/a depressive brain, but for me it stems from family problems and feelings of inferiority that go way back.
The serenity prayer is good. This morning after the gym I did a 40 minute guided meditation session, which focused on mindfulness and detachment from rumination and repetitive thought patterns.
While exercise and nutrition are fundamental for me, this time around I really need to focus on training my brain and finding that inner peace.
Otherwise, the next time something happens, and my careful routine is altered, I will again feel depression, and each time it is worse, and I really would prefer not to end up dead from drinking or depression, which is where it ultimately takes you.

(03-14-2016 09:50 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  The full Mormon way really is the best for guys with a depressive brain; try it and you'll see.

Messing with TRT is a terrible idea, as you realize. The thing you really don't want to experience is a true severe depression down the line; something different in kind from what you have now. Going on TRT just to feel good and then going off would be one way to try to bring it about. Don't do it.

I see nothing wrong with having one cup of tea a day, as long as it's not on an empty stomach (say after breakfast or lunch). Make it a daily ritual and enjoy it. But don't go beyond that. Rooibos is different because it's not really tea (it does not contain caffeine); but it is quite acidic so I would not go overboard with it either. But a cup of Rooibos after dinner should be fine.

Full Mormon; a regular sleeping/waking schedule (you should strongly consider getting a light box, also for general anti-depressant effect); a great diet with plenty of good proteins, fats, and greens and little sugar; regular exercise when you can do it, especially weightlifting; and you'll be doing fine in a matter of weeks if not sooner than that. Then just keep all the good habits and let them deepen as the weeks turn into months, seasons and years.

Thank you. I'm going to look into where to get a light box in Spain.
I've already experienced true severe depressions several times, and I don't know if I have it in me to pull out of one again. For me they are typically preceded by a low mood and excessive alcohol and pot use, combined with a lack of exercise, and then my sleep becomes disrupted, then I lose my appetite, and then life is basically a constant torture, and a couple times I've landed in the hospital followed by rehab.
I'll probably hop on for a full mormon, after this week. The one exception I am allowing myself is a cigarette or two as I get some good habits going again. I'm somewhat feeling fragile now, and don't see it as a terrible thing.
Last night sleep no good, but I did get to the gym, and I do feel better.
Basically I got arrogant in the past couple months, decided I wanted to forget about the dark places I'd been and how I got there, wasn't vigilant about my mood and lifestyle, and it's very nearly put me in a hole again. I am grateful that things aren't worse right now, and that I didn't drink during this time.
I'm being open about all of this stuff, even though some people might judge me, for two reasons:
1. I trust members of RVF to provide useful feedback.
2. Someone else might be struggling through similar issues, come across these posts, and realize that it is possible to get better, and that you shouldn't be ashamed.

VVVV, I think a light box should really be a priority. The Lumie Brazil is the one I recommend to guys in Europe; you can get it online here:

http://www.lumie.com/products/brazil

or from Amazon:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Lumie-Brazil-Lar...B006BZ698K

A recent major multi-center study demonstrated that bright light therapy, done correctly and consistently, is more effective than anti-depressant medication for the treatment of non-seasonal depression (not just seasonal). It is far more effective than placebo, whereas the medication was not significantly more effective than placebo. I wrote about this study here, it is the single most important one in the entire field in years:

https://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-39799...pid1165828

I'm reposting the full post below. Get that light box and start using it every morning same time for 30 minutes at the correct distance to get 10,000 Lux. It will rout your depressive symptoms.

(12-07-2015 10:19 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  There is an extremely important new study that came out recently, showing that bright light therapy significantly improves nonseasonal major depression. In addition, bright light therapy alone (monotherapy) is more effective than an antidepressant used alone. The effects of light therapy were noted to be rapid and dramatic, and easily beat placebo (whereas antidepressant monotherapy failed to convincingly beat placebo).

Medscape article

Quote:Light Therapy Highly Effective for Major Depression

The combination of bright light therapy plus an antidepressant significantly improves nonseasonal major depressive disorder, and light therapy alone is more effective than antidepressant monotherapy, a randomized, placebo-controlled trial suggests.

"I've studied bright light therapy in winter depression for a long time, but we always thought that winter depression was different from nonseasonal depression," Raymond Lam, MD, University of British Columbia, Vancouver, Canada, told Medscape Medical News.

"So this was the first study that was placebo-controlled, and I think that while light therapy could be used on its own for some patients, more severely ill patients need combination therapy, whether that combination be an antidepressant plus psychotherapy or psychotherapy plus light therapy or light therapy plus an antidepressant."

....

Rapid and Dramatic Improvement

Asked by Medscape Medical News to comment on the study, Michael Terman, PhD, professor of psychiatry, Columbia University, and director of the Comprehensive Chronotherapy Group, New York City, noted that as early as the 1970s, there were inklings that light had antidepressant effects in nonseasonal major depression, but because of the rapid — often within days — and dramatic improvement seen with light therapy in patients with seasonal affective disorder (SAD), attention was quickly diverted to the use of light therapy in SAD.

"Dr Lam's multicenter trial wraps up the loose ends with a comprehensive, 8-week comparison of light therapy and fluoxetine, separately and in combination," Dr Terman told Medscape Medical News.

"The major surprise was the failure of a standard therapeutic dose of fluoxetine to beat the placebo rate, while light therapy showed a large effect size within 4 weeks," he added.

...

"This the most impressive clinical trial of light therapy I have seen, whether for SAD or non-SAD," Dr Terman said.

"It ran for 8 weeks ― longer than earlier studies ― it used two types of placebo control, and it pitted the response against standard antidepressant medication," he added.

"If light had proved ineffective or only weakly effective in comparison with fluoxetine, it would have consigned light therapy to the dustbin, but the dramatic, opposite result turns the tables on the choice of somatic treatment for major depression ― 10,000 lux light therapy upon awakening or, by implication, a walk outdoors if the sun is up ― now can be recommended to patients with recurrent depression, many of whom will respond without recourse to drugs."

Note that the bright light therapy protocol used in the study was exactly as recommended in this thread: 30 minutes at 10,000 Lux, as soon as possible after waking.

This study is a very big deal, and it demonstrates what has been stated in the OP to this thread: bright light therapy should be the modality of choice in treating both seasonal and non-seasonal depression, being both safer and more effective than other modalities. One hopes that it will mark a significant turning point in the treatment of major depression.

Here is the link to the full research paper in JAMA Psychiatry:

http://archpsyc.jamanetwork.com/article....id=2470681

(03-13-2016 11:20 AM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  VVVV, here are some thoughts in response to your post.

...

Finally, while I don't exactly know your particular circumstances, I can't help thinking that a guy like yourself would benefit from a very regular and habitual routine of work that you engage in almost as if it were a kind of 9 to 5 job (even if it isn't). I seem to remember that sometime ago you came into possession of some money that allows you to live more or less as you please; that is great, but is also something that many men do not always respond well to. In my experience, guys who have what I called the depressive brain respond better than anything else to quite well-defined day to day structures; they tend to flail and flag when they are at loose ends and left to themselves. Occasional photography projects and the like may well be enjoyable but I don't think they replace the need for a reasonably well-structured routine that one can come back to day in day out, picking up today where you've left off yesterday, achieving goals set over long periods of time, and making money in the process. This is really the best way for almost all men to structure their time, and especially so for depressive types who tend to abandon such routines all too readily given the least opportunity. Even if you are not forced to do so by your financial circumstances, you should find a productive structure of this kind and devote yourself to it over a long and sustained period of time.

VVVV, I would just like to echo what TLOZ has mentioned above. In addition to the other advice, which all sounds good, this has made the biggest difference to my mood. While not wealthy by any means, I acquired a financially free, although very moderate, standard of living about 5 years ago that doesn't required me to work any longer, unless I want to.

After about 2.5 years of living free, traveling, etc, I became incredibly restless, and somewhat depressed as well. I could live anywhere (within reason, maybe not mid-town Manhattan but you get the idea) and I was somehow less happy than when I was working full time slaving away. It was truly a weird experience in my life, having worked so hard to achieve some financial freedom, I realized I was "mission-less". As a side note, my drinking certainly started filling up more and more of this free time, which was not healthy. Anyway, back to my point:

I think most men really need a sufficiently difficult "mission" on which they must work, day in and day out, in order to be happy in life. Hobbies, working-out, traveling are all rewarding, however I don't think they cut it by themselves. My passive income project only required 30mins to 1 hour a day at most, and then after that I was just totally bored, and I really began missing structure in my life.

Honestly it was counter intuitive, but the one thing that really improved my overall mood and quality of life was getting a part-time job. Full-time probably would be OK too, it just depends on what you can find. A good part time job can be anything, although the more you can use your skill sets and experience, the more rewarding the job can be both monetarily and mentally. Ideally, this isn't a solo job but one involving working alongside and with other people, although this may vary for some people based on personally type. A part-time job gave me plenty of time to work on my own projects, but it also increased greatly my daily structure, forcing me to get up early, and plan my time to be most effective. It introduced me to a whole new set of people, and of course I was able to save nearly 100% of that income since I was living below my means from my passive income anyway. Lastly, since it was a part-time gig I didn't feel bad about quitting after a year or so, when I began to feel the need for another month or six abroad.

At least for me right now, I find myself repeating a similar pattern that maximizes my happiness. I can drift around traveling a bit for 6-9 months, then get restless, find a good part-time or contract gig, work for 6-12 months, and repeat. How long will this work for, I'm not really sure. But I never thought a job was so integral to my happiness, I always just thought it was for the paycheck. But actually it brings a lot more than the paycheck when you think about it.

The best part is, since I don't need the money, I have a much better attitude in the office. I'm only working there because I really want to do it. I walk in with a smile on my face more often than not, because it is fun and I appreciate what the job brings to my life and my day. On the other hand, I won't take any unreasonable crap from management either, I'm more than happy to walk away at any moment if treated poorly. Although I never come out and say it directly, as that is probably not a good way to endear yourself to your coworkers and your boss, I think they realize that through my attitude. There really is something different about working a job because you want to versus needing it to put food on the table. Of course this can be over-done and turn to arrogance if you aren't careful, but walking that line and being able to tell your boss to shove it if treated poorly makes me feel a lot better about myself compared to needing that paycheck to stay alive and pay rent.

Anyway, you didn't respond to this part so I'm not sure if it even applies to your situation, but maybe it will help somebody else out in a similar spot. Getting a job and adding structure back to my life has made all the difference to my personal happiness.

^I agree with above. Finding purpose and structure is important.

Im in a similar boat as VVVV, as I am not working and I am traveling around the world. I cant say I'm unhappy but frankly, I bored as a shit most of the time. Alcohol brings that boredom to a new level, it made me feel worse, which is why I need to stop for a while.

I spent some time learning languages and taking some online classes but frankly its not enough. I drive for Uber when I am home too. Sitting in the car all day is even worse, though I could probably draw a map of center city of the top of my head now. A good job would go a long way to helping me out and I think everyone is giving some good advice on that aspect.

Its hard to stay away from shit when you have nothing better to do. Just today, I pounded a pint of ice cream, mainly because I love chocolate ice cream, but also I just wanted to kill some time and I know I'm working out tomorrow morning anyway.

I've been off the online game since I got back home, which was a useful distraction and great for killing time. Another temporary relationship with an American girl just doesn't seem worth the time right now. Clowning these girls just gets old real quick.

Just a thought, probably not popular on this forum, I'm interested in other's opinions as well but what about a permanent relationship? not suggesting it would make you happier, but everyone is talking about structure.

(03-17-2016 07:18 PM)godzilla Wrote:  ^I agree with above. Finding purpose and structure is important.

I spent some time learning languages and taking some online classes but frankly its not enough. I drive for Uber when I am home too. Sitting in the car all day is even worse, though I could probably draw a map of center city of the top of my head now.

Hey Godzilla,

Guess there are a few guys in a similar position as myself. One of the reasons I love this forum, no matter what you are facing in life as a man, you can find others who have been through it before or going through it now.

Been there with learning languages, actually I do find it is a great mental exercise and excellent way to meet people in a new place as well, but it is a serious time commitment and you really need to be motivated for the long term. Otherwise, it can be a big waste of time and money if you end up forgetting everything you learned a few months later.

(03-17-2016 07:18 PM)godzilla Wrote:  Just a thought, probably not popular on this forum, I'm interested in other's opinions as well but what about a permanent relationship? not suggesting it would make you happier, but everyone is talking about structure.

I don't want to get too off topic in this thread that should be mainly focused on the Wagon and its various incarnations, but there certainly can be some interesting corollaries here to your above point.

For one, I think there are probably more guys here than you suspect who are very interested in long term relationships or even starting a family and getting married, but only to the right women, which can be very hard to find. Regardless, many of us especially as we get older, find less and less pleasure in putting in a ton of work for the one night stand, unless it is dropped in our lap of course. But at some point the juice really isn't worth the squeeze. For each man it probably comes at a different point in their life. (TLOZ wrote a great thread on how most men should probably get married and have kids at the right time in one's life, worth a read, just can't find the link at the moment)

The one thing I would warn against is seeking out an LTR out of boredom, or any place of weakness or desperation. That never ends well, as we tend to attract the wrong kind of women in those instances.

Anyway, that being said, the wagon can certainly be enhanced with the right kind of woman by your side. In fact, it can actually help you find the right kind of women in my opinion. A women that has no interest going out to the bars and clubs, no interest in drinking in general, and who is more than happy to come over, cook you a meal, clean up your place and entertain you with her natural feminine instincts can be a real blessing. And these are the kind of girls, at least in my heavy drinking days, that I would often ignore as "boring", or ones that I would call for a quick lay on a tuesday night but would never see them on the weekends which was always reserved for some party girls who were ok with doing tequila shots and getting hammered. These are not the kind of women that make good LTRs. So, spending more time with this non-drinking, non-clubbing crowd, and you can find some real LTR potentials in places that you probably never bothered to look before.

Call this a fringe benefit of the wagon!

I've always been quite skeptical that moderate drinking is beneficial, though I dont think its bad, just not "better".

Article
http://www.newsweek.com/no-moderate-alco...ger-439259
Study
ttp://www.jsad.com/doi/10.15288/jsad.2016.77.185

Quote

"The researchers say a close examination found flaws in the design of the majority of these studies that could skew the number to show that drinking is beneficial. Many of the studies that find a positive benefit to moderate drinking include control groups that are current abstainers. But teetotalism isn’t what is ruining their health. More likely, this study population includes people who are already in poor health and abstaining from alcohol due to existing medical conditions."

I've stopped drinking for about 9 months now, but lately after hearing stories of other players I wonder if it would be so bad to just restrict drinking to just first meets with a girl?

Maybe not at the bar itself because then I'll be drinking every time I go out, but maybe only back at my place. There's been a few times I haven't been able to blow past the LMR and I'm wondering if it's worth giving up those lays just to avoid a few sips of alcohol.

Been almost 4 months since I stopped drinking.

Never had a big problem with drinking, would only go heavy on vacations, until last year. I wasn't getting wasted regularly but it turned into a lot of bars on weekends/after work. Decided to cut that out. Hasn't been hard, but I end up seeing my friends a lot less. The majority of social life in NYC revolves around drinking.

Had one of those rare top rated beers that you can only buy on the other side of the country in my drawer. Decided to drink it the other week. Half way through it I had a light warmth, my tolerance has defiantly gone down. My brain has almost changed circuitry. The buzz was not even welcomed and I didnt really see a need to take it further. Even though the beer tasted great (I could have probably sold the can for $20 here easily) I poured the rest out. I tasted it, it was good, I moved on.

I stopped MJ almost completely six years ago, and currently I drink once every three months or so. I want to extend that time in-between drinks to rarely-to-never. I currently think of alcohol as a relatively hard drug. I'm rarely bored mostly because of the computer, but I want to cut that use way down as well. I definitely need to learn to shut it off and go to bed by 11 p.m. at the latest when I don't have work. I'm on the early side of being 'older', and so bar sluts don't do much for me beside look good when they jiggle. I'm actually going to begin a strategy to capture something a little more quality and maybe settle down.

I'm starting on the lean gains lifting program and have my own intermittent fasting routine that I developed a long time ago. I need to cut some weight that I gained over the past five years. Right now, I'm into LLLT but have still been trying to gauge the overall effects. Used in moderation it seems to be good. I have also settled on high dose selective B-vitamins as a health adjunct, after a decade of fooling around with almost every supplement under the sun. I have a coffee habit that I should likely ditch, and I'd like to move somewhere warmer so that I'm better inspired to stick with a healthy lifestyle over the course of the entire year.

In sum, it feels incredible to not have MJ nor alcohol cravings that more or less governed my life for 15 years. I truly appreciate the clarity of sobriety, somewhat enhanced by clean living and LLLT.

As an aside, I have come to the conclusion that small adjustments that might seem relatively inconsequential can make a large difference. To wit, my cutting out eating hot sauce and spicy food has been effective for me to a degree in reducing mood swings. Spicy food is addictive because it essentially causes an adrenaline surge in the brain. Ceasing that periodic adrenaline spike seems to have a positive effect over time. I rarely even use black pepper now, whereas before I was strangely addicted to it.

I'm over 6 months in now and feeling good, but I've found myself saying, "Hey man, it's been 6 months. Don't you think that's enough already?"

I've been able to fend that devil off, but last night I mistakenly had a sip of someone else's vodka. A neighbor was throwing a dinner party and everyone was eating and drinking around the huge kitchen island. I was drinking water and eating. Part way through I mistakenly grabbed my neighbor's glass of vodka on the rocks. The table was very cluttered and our glasses were different, but still quite similar. I drank it like I would water and immediately knew something was up and after a gulp I kept the rest in my mouth and ran to the sink to spit it out. I hate vodka besides.

An honest mistake, hope this technicality doesn't mean the wagon is over? Of course a part of me does, so I can say fuck it and start drinking. I did feel the affects of that one small swallow of shitty vodka.

Onto, no -- an honest mistake does not qualify as a wagon-breaker, sorry to disappoint you . Honest mistakes like that are pretty rare, but they can happen like you described. The wagon rolls on.

Don't let any moods or feelings distract you. You committed to a 1 year wagon, your commitment remains, and you should simply stick to it and dismiss everything else.

When the 1 year mark comes, you can reevaluate and decide whether to renew or step off. Until then, your decision has already been made so you should just relax and let the wagon and its benefits go on and deepen. All the inner voices are of no consequence; you hear them, acknowledge them, dismiss them from your mind, and go on just as you did before.

(04-03-2016 04:02 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  Onto, no -- an honest mistake does not qualify as a wagon-breaker, sorry to disappoint you .

Haha...ok then. 6 more months it is.

(04-03-2016 03:49 PM)Onto Wrote:  Part way through I mistakenly grabbed my neighbor's glass of vodka on the rocks. The table was very cluttered and our glasses were different, but still quite similar. I drank it like I would water and immediately knew something was up and after a gulp I kept the rest in my mouth and ran to the sink to spit it out. I hate vodka besides.

An honest mistake, hope this technicality doesn't mean the wagon is over? Of course a part of me does, so I can say fuck it and start drinking. I did feel the affects of that one small swallow of shitty vodka.

Onto, yeah, it sucks but I basically smell every drink before I take a sip. I went bar hopping for the first time in months last Wednesday night and my friend was drinking vodka and soda and I was drinking club soda, very problematic. So, I would smell my drink every time and then take a small sip. It seems a bit paranoid but after four years on the wagon it is actually second nature and I do it instantaneously. Its not like I hover over the drink sniffing it. Because, yeah, I have accidentally taken a few sips of vodka over the years. And I didn't count them as a slip either. I have spit out a few mouthfuls also, its pretty funny when you think about it.

G

Hello

I wanted to say thank you to this thread for significantly changing my life.

I've been lurking around reading the 61 pages of content for some time now, that and reading the Alan Carr (I think) book.

I was getting on a flight home from a stag weekend, getting on yet another flight hungover and something just clicked in me and I decided there and then to stop drinking. I just didn't want to do it anymore. I've been drinking (in hindsight quite heavily) since I started at aged 15, all the way up to my current 39 years old.

Things I've noticed since I gave up since 18 Sept 2016 and no doubt will happen to you also if you do;

PROS
1. Friends who you think are friends will reveal themselves only to be drinking friends
2. You'll get a lot of shit from people initially. This is actually because they are uncomfortable with the fact they couldn't do it.
3. Loss of water weight. You get thinner all over because your body isn't retaining water to deal with the constant dehydrating effect of alcohol
4. The pain goes. All my joint pain went, the bad back I'd had for 6 months and was apparently un fixable by physios and chiropractors . Gone.
5. Your eyes are clear. Properly clear.
6. Bags under your eyes reduce.
7. Mental clarity - It's hard to describe but you start to make all sorts of connections that you hadn't seen before. There is a clearness to my thinking now and I see the bigger picture better.
8. Time. I don't waste any more time being hungover. Losing days to those debilitating headaches and nausea. All day vomiting sessions around a toilet are not cool at 39.
9. Time, again - I can go out, have a good time and still come back home and be productive. This one still surprises me. I sometimes am still amazed that I can go on a night out and drive home or get work done.
10. I'm much, much, much, much better in bed with my girl.
11. My mood is much more even and I don;'t have deep 3 day depressions like I I used to
12. Being sober at parties gives you superpowers in pulling chicks. If you can put up with the parties long enough that is....
13. You sleep deep and long and the body naturally wakes itself up refreshed and ready. At 0630 or 0700..


CONS
1. People you thought were friends are just drunk friends
2. Sometimes it's boring being out while people get drunk. You tend to go home after 2 hours because it's dull.
3. You effectively see the matrix for what it is and our society's dependence on alcohol. It's fucking sad.
4. You want to go to bed by about 2230 every night.
5. Some friends don't like that you've changed.


That's about all I can think of for now but I wanted to add my thoughts because there were some great ones in this thread that helped me and maybe my experiences can help someone else.

LofOZ - I had 4 vin chauds as an experiment to see if I could go back sometime in early Feb. I really didn't like the way that it changed my mood in relation to other people so I never went back after that point. It was not later than 10 Feb though so put me down for that date.

I won't have any trouble doing a year though as I don't want alcohol in my life anymore.

SP

Ski pro, thanks for that post. It makes me very happy to know that this thread has helped you in making a great decision. I like your list of pros and cons, and I'm sometimes surprised not to hear more guys mention #10 more enthusiastically .

Welcome aboard as of February 10, 2016 and I look forward to hearing more from you on this thread over time.

(04-08-2016 11:20 AM)Ski pro Wrote:  3. Loss of water weight. You get thinner all over because your body isn't retaining water to deal with the constant dehydrating effect of alcohol

13. You sleep deep and long and the body naturally wakes itself up refreshed and ready. At 0630 or 0700..

First, Ski pro, glad to read through your experiences, they corroborate mine. I went on the wagon four years ago at age 41 and would have been a much better man had I did it at 31.

On the loss of water weight, that was something that I hadn't thought about but after a few months my whole face changed from the loss of excess water (edema), I looked years younger and my face was dramatically thinner.

My sleep didn't magically return to normal and has been a struggle. I recently went on the light therapy (thanks TLOZ) and also changed my work where I keep a regular schedule and stay more active and it has really helped my sleep schedule.

-G

Whilst I'm at list making I thought of one more thing.

In the last year or so I was really having to eat a quite careful primal/paleo diet to offset the drinking. I didn't really see it at the time but when you are doing 5 or 6 beers a night minimum, it's like eating multiple chocolate bars just before you go to sleep.

Now, what with it being ski season, I'm inevitably eating more crap food due to the lifestyle but it's not really having a noticeable effect. It's like my body can cope with more abuse in that way.

I'm also able to occasionally eat things like bread and pasta which I have previously avoided, I guess this is due to the stomach not being overloaded with grains (hops and wheat in beer etc)

(09-27-2015 06:25 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  

(09-27-2015 06:16 PM)offthereservation Wrote:  On board as of today for the year ahead.

offthereservation, welcome aboard as of September 27, 2015 and I hope to hear more from you on this thread.

Passed the half way point the other day and didn't realize it until today.

OTR, that's what happens when the wagon is rolling at full speed.

Reporting 4 months in and now my cravings are almost gone. Going to get more treatment on that shoulder injury I got a while back so I can get back into proper lifting at gym again. Been doing cardio 4 times a week non-stop and I'm sick of it now.

It's strange that after I stayed sober for a while, I started to forget all the depression I had last year from the drinking. I still come back to this thread often to read my old posts and remind myself how bad it was last year, and I'm so relived I managed to stay on the wagon this long.

Turning 23 in a few weeks from now, and have no plans to do any hard partying that day. Probably just a quiet dinner with family and friends.

(04-12-2016 06:51 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  OTR, that's what happens when the wagon is rolling at full speed.

Rolling at full speed indeed. Even the whiskey drinks in my dreams are gone.

Hey guys,

I'm joining in. I've wanted to but didn't have a reason. Saturday, I had a pretty awful experience with fake alcohol in China that put me over the edge. it was two days ago and I still feel fucked up.

Consider this day 1.