(01-31-2016 12:04 AM)Prof. Ligate Wrote:  

(01-30-2016 11:07 PM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  

(01-30-2016 10:43 PM)Thoughtcrime Wrote:  I could not go more than a month without alcohol, however.

Couldn't or wouldn't?

If you really don't think you can, all the more reason to do it...

So true.

'I can't talk to that girl at the bar, she's with her boyfriend' - Answer: approach the girl and see what happens
'I can't gain muscle I have bad genetics' - Answer: eat properly and lift for a year and see what happens
'I can't go more than a month without alcohol' - Answer: don't drink for a day, don't drink for a week... and see what happens

If you tell yourself you can't do something you owe it to yourself to at least try.

True, it's definitely worth a try. My view is that it will become socially inconvenient to avoid alcohol for a long time. However, I have enjoyed the benefits that come with alcohol abstinence, so that's motivation enough to at least give it a shot.

I, for the most part, stopped drinking this past November. Before that, I didn't drink on weekdays, only on weekends. But, on weekends I was hitting it fairly hard. I would often be fairly inebriated all three nights of the weekend (Fri, Sat, Sun) and constantly hung-over Sat and Sun mornings.

I don't think I was drinking in order to find refuge in the "soft focus and warmth" that Lizard of Oz mentioned in his excellent post. I just really, really like savoring high quality liquor and wine. Also, I'm married with children and find home life, especially on the weekends, to be really boring. So, drinking high-end alcohol gave me something to look forward to on the weekends.

I was always drinking micro-brews, top-shelf whiskies, or quality wines matched with the gourmet food I was eating. But, I was drinking a lot of it. Here's what I noticed since I laid off the sauce:

1. I'm saving a lot of money. Probably at least $250-300 a month.
2. When I'm eating some gourmet cheese or some prime beef, I still really miss the wine I used to drink with it. However, once I'm full and finish eating I notice that the craving for the alcohol evaporates.
3. I have been able to lose weight more easily and keep it off. I don't eat as much on the weekends.
4. I sleep better and am more productive on the weekends.
5. I feel more in control of my life. I no longer have Sundays and Mondays wondering if I need to apologize to someone for something I said the night before, trying to remember where I mislaid something, or hitting myself for not completing a task that I needed to get done over the weekend.
6. I do get bored on the weekends, but instead of reaching for the glass I pick up a book, grab a video, smoke a cigar, or just go to bed. So far, it's working out ok. It helps that I decided not to keep any good wine or whisky in the house, because it keeps me from succumbing to temptation.

I haven't completely given up drinking. This past Friday night I hit a cigar bar after work and drank three glasses of high-end whisky while I smoked a cigar. It helped that I had a definite time-constraint (I told myself I had to be home by 8 p.m.) and there isn't any alcohol in the house to tempt me when I get home to keep the buzz going. So, I didn't lose control or get drunk. We'll see if I can keep that going. I'll post again here on my status. This is one of the best threads on the forum, in my opinion.

In response to a couple of you who wondered how it's possible to hang out at a bar without drinking, I have experienced that myself in the past. The way I handle it is to think, "If I'm the only one here sober, then it means I'll be able to better handle any gaming opportunities that come up." That, I understand, is the reason that Mystery recommended not drinking when sarging. Mystery was not a teetotaler if I understand correctly, he just knew that your sharpest game should be when you're sober. I agree.

I'll give this a shot. It's been a fairly productive year but I still need more free time to get shit done.

(02-04-2016 04:59 PM)Hades Wrote:  I'll give this a shot. It's been a fairly productive year but I still need more free time to get shit done.

Hades, are you in for the full year? If so, please post your start date in the thread.

(02-04-2016 07:37 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  

(02-04-2016 04:59 PM)Hades Wrote:  I'll give this a shot. It's been a fairly productive year but I still need more free time to get shit done.

Hades, are you in for the full year? If so, please post your start date in the thread.

I guess as of February 1st 2016. I had a beer after a pizza.
I'll try to update if I fall off the wagon. On the 4th of July there's a high likelihood I'm going to be on a boat somewhere.

(02-04-2016 08:33 PM)Hades Wrote:  

(02-04-2016 07:37 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  

(02-04-2016 04:59 PM)Hades Wrote:  I'll give this a shot. It's been a fairly productive year but I still need more free time to get shit done.

Hades, are you in for the full year? If so, please post your start date in the thread.

I guess as of February 1st 2016. I had a beer after a pizza.
I'll try to update if I fall off the wagon. On the 4th of July there's a high likelihood I'm going to be on a boat somewhere.

It doesn't sound to me like you're really committed to a one year wagon if you're already talking about falling off.

Here's what I suggest: you should take some time to reflect on this and then -- if that's what you decide to do -- make a firm commitment and stick to it no matter what; 24/7, land, sea or air, weekdays and weekends and special occasions, for a full 365 days. That is really the best way to go about it, and you will thank yourself later if you do.

The only reason you "fall off" is because you choose to do so -- after all, no one is going to forcibly pour a drink down your throat. If you make a serious commitment to a 1 year wagon and stake your pride on it, it is certainly within your power to stick to it come what may. But you have to make the decision first.

Lizard, I know this guy here in Phils and he asked me about kicking the booze today. I actually wanted to bring it up to him in the past because he seems to have a major drinking problem, but i don't know him all that well, and as we know, trying to convince someone to make a change in their life is impossible.

But...he has now expressed that he wants to quit after I "casually" mentioned my own wagon. He seems genuinely interested, so I'm going to send him the Allen Carr book in hopes that he gets some use out of it.

However, this guy says that it's bad enough that he gets the shakes when he stops. This is not something I have experience with or feel informed enough to offer advice on. I think Allen Carr covers the issue a little in the book, and I know it can be really dangerous to quit cold turkey if you're that bad. Does he need to see a doctor at this stage? Is there a drug people take while they're quitting if they are physically dependent?

Appreciate any advice you can offer.

(02-05-2016 11:29 PM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  Lizard, I know this guy here in Phils and he asked me about kicking the booze today. I actually wanted to bring it up to him in the past because he seems to have a major drinking problem, but i don't know him all that well, and as we know, trying to convince someone to make a change in their life is impossible.

But...he has now expressed that he wants to quit after I "casually" mentioned my own wagon. He seems genuinely interested, so I'm going to send him the Allen Carr book in hopes that he gets some use out of it.

However, this guy says that it's bad enough that he gets the shakes when he stops. This is not something I have experience with or feel informed enough to offer advice on. I think Allen Carr covers the issue a little in the book, and I know it can be really dangerous to quit cold turkey if you're that bad. Does he need to see a doctor at this stage? Is there a drug people take while they're quitting if they are physically dependent?

Appreciate any advice you can offer.

BB, if the guy is that far gone he should go to a doctor and ask for help in withdrawing from alcohol. It may be too dangerous for him to quit cold turkey or manage the withdrawal on his own.

(02-05-2016 11:29 PM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  However, this guy says that it's bad enough that he gets the shakes when he stops. This is not something I have experience with or feel informed enough to offer advice on. I think Allen Carr covers the issue a little in the book, and I know it can be really dangerous to quit cold turkey if you're that bad. Does he need to see a doctor at this stage? Is there a drug people take while they're quitting if they are physically dependent?

Appreciate any advice you can offer.

A "medical" detox is recommended if you have ever had seizures from withdrawal or if you are a daily user of large amounts of alcohol (e.g. a liter of vodka a day). They typically prescribe Librium for withdrawal to prevent seizures. There are a lot of 7 day detox centers where you can go to detox before you start the "wagon" or 12 stepping it or whatever your approach is. You really want to avoid the seizures as they cause brain changes and each withdrawal causes "kindling" which makes subsequent withdrawals more intense. This is alleviated by taking Librium or other Benzodiazepines that are used in a medical detox.

However, some, very few, people have been successful with tapering off alcohol.

First week is the primary acute physical withdrawal symptoms then you can have post acute withdrawal symptoms.

The key is to quit, get through the detox period, then replace the drinking time with some new activity interest.

I'm in today is my starting date.

I didn't drink for a couple of weeks already, but yesterday evening.

I'm only drinking during weekends, but when I drink I'm not moderate and talk about stuff I shouldn't talk about. Half blackouts I call them teleportation into my bed. And most friends are only met when I consume alcohol so this will be hard.

And I just can't remember why that blonde girl threw her drink in to my face yesterday ..

(02-07-2016 04:14 PM)PowerGame Wrote:  I'm in today is my starting date.

I didn't drink for a couple of weeks already, but yesterday evening.

I'm only drinking during weekends, but when I drink I'm not moderate and talk about stuff I shouldn't talk about. Half blackouts I call them teleportation into my bed. And most friends are only met when I consume alcohol so this will be hard.

And I just can't remember why that blonde girl threw her drink in to my face yesterday ..

PowerGame, are you in for the full year?

(02-04-2016 08:56 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  

(02-04-2016 08:33 PM)Hades Wrote:  

(02-04-2016 07:37 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  

(02-04-2016 04:59 PM)Hades Wrote:  I'll give this a shot. It's been a fairly productive year but I still need more free time to get shit done.

Hades, are you in for the full year? If so, please post your start date in the thread.

I guess as of February 1st 2016. I had a beer after a pizza.
I'll try to update if I fall off the wagon. On the 4th of July there's a high likelihood I'm going to be on a boat somewhere.

It doesn't sound to me like you're really committed to a one year wagon if you're already talking about falling off.

Here's what I suggest: you should take some time to reflect on this and then -- if that's what you decide to do -- make a firm commitment and stick to it no matter what; 24/7, land, sea or air, weekdays and weekends and special occasions, for a full 365 days. That is really the best way to go about it, and you will thank yourself later if you do.

The only reason you "fall off" is because you choose to do so -- after all, no one is going to forcibly pour a drink down your throat. If you make a serious commitment to a 1 year wagon and stake your pride on it, it is certainly within your power to stick to it come what may. But you have to make the decision first.

I took this weekend off and went to the gym more instead. The way I see it, drinking is a habit that has to be replaced by another habit.

I only mention the 4th of July because that's a big deal in terms of vacation, days off, and friends meeting up. That's still 6 months away and would be half of a year's worth of no drinking, which is a pretty big deal since the longest stretch I have gone without alcohol for the last six years would be two weeks. Baby steps.

Yes I'm doing the whole year. hopefully I meet some new guys that meet up for other stuff than drinking. otherwise I will mostly have female company or go to the gym at the weekend nights.

(02-08-2016 08:26 AM)PowerGame Wrote:  Yes I'm doing the whole year. hopefully I meet some new guys that meet up for other stuff than drinking. otherwise I will mostly have female company or go to the gym at the weekend nights.

PowerGame, thank you and welcome aboard as of February 7, 2016. Hope to hear more from you here over time.

I went out to a bar this past weekend. It was a restaurant that is run as a small dance club on weekend nights. I didn't even try to hide that I wasn't drinking by ordering a non-alcoholic drink that looked like it had alcohol in it. I drank straight up tap water with a slice of lemon.

To those of you who wonder that it might feel awkward not drinking in a bar or club, my experience, again, is that it gives you more control and dominance over the situation. Almost everyone else in the venue was moderately to heavily inebriated. The staff was very deferential to me the whole night. For example, the bouncer, who was screening new people coming in and those coming back inside after going outside to smoke, didn't even glance at me when I went in and out. The bartenders were quickly responsive when I went over to get another glass of water (I did tip them for the water even though it was free). I had the feeling that none of the dudes in the place would mess with me because they would know that I was more in control since I wasn't drinking. Even though I was out late, I wasn't tired the next day because I had a good night's sleep since I was cold sober.

My point is, again, that you shouldn't feel weird about going to a bar or nightclub and not drinking a drop.

I'm in for the full year. I've been slowly getting on the wagon the last few months, but last night I got wrecked and now remember why I wanted to stop. I just honestly can't control myself with alcohol. I have one beer and it ends up 10 beers, one mixed drink turns into 6. I can't do it anymore.

2/8/2016 Start date

(02-08-2016 01:10 PM)captain_shane Wrote:  I'm in for the full year. I've been slowly getting on the wagon the last few months, but last night I got wrecked and now remember why I wanted to stop. I just honestly can't control myself with alcohol. I have one beer and it ends up 10 beers, one mixed drink turns into 6. I can't do it anymore.

2/8/2016 Start date

captain_shane, thank you for the post and welcome aboard as of February 8, 2016. I look forward to hearing more from you on this thread as time goes on.

I'm finding this thread really encouraging. There are clearly a lot of good reasons to get on the wagon. I hope to join you guys by the end of the week.

9 years for me today, and extending for year number 10.

(02-12-2016 09:28 AM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  9 years for me today, and extending for year number 10.

That's awesome, working on 10 years with no alcohol? Do you day game?

I'm on week two or three, right now I'm just burying myself in hobbies and work. It's not as depriving as I figured, and having money sit in my wallet much longer is nice.

First off, I want to really thank TLOZ for creating and maintaining this thread. After reading the entire thing, I've noticed it really has changed many lives for the better. And for everyone that actually posts here, there are hundreds or likely even thousands of others reading along and considering the impacts that alcohol has had on their lives.

I have been a heavy drinker for a long time, ever since high school really. Now that I'm in my mid-30's, that is approximately 20 years, give or take, of hard drinking. Until recently, it was impossible to even imagine my life without alcohol.

I remember once seeing an ad, one of those public service announcements or whatever, that warned against the dangers of binge drinking. "Binge drinking", as this ad defined it, was consuming 5 or more drinks in one evening. I laughed! 5 or more drinks was nothing as I far as we were concerned. How could that have a name, I call that a normal evening. That PSA perhaps set the stage that what I was doing certainly wasn't normal, although it was more than normal amongst my group of friends. You can certainly be blinded to your problems by hanging around with other people who have the exact same problem / addiction as you.

I started to realize I had a problem about 2 years ago. My friend had stopped drinking due to a medical issue, and as a current member of my drinking crew, was complaining about a medically forced 10 days off from our normal routine. I begin thinking to myself, wow 10 days without a drink, that is terrible!

Then somehow, I tried to remember the last time I went 10 days without a drink. In fact I couldn't remember such a time in my life, unless I thought way way back.

I started to think that I maybe should "slow down" a little. See if I could drink less, or maybe go a week without a drink. Of course, with no firm resolve and a life built around drinking, this didn't work at all. I came across this thread about the same time, and I was intrigued. Is taking a year off something that I should do? Was it something that I even could do?

At first the clear answer to me was no, I don't need that, I can slow down on my own without it. I did try a few "mini-wagons", the longest reaching 2 months at one point last year. I was only able to do it because I was in the Philippines at that time, away from my social crew and I could focus on work. I was really feeling good after 2 months, noticing some of the more obvious improvements in sleep, losing some weight, and gaining more focus. So I figured I had it under control and could start drinking "moderately" after that, whatever that meant.

Well, as has happened to many others before me, this did not last. I came back from the Phils to my normal life, and almost immediately after I began to drink again, and soon enough it was like I never quit.

So last December I decided it was time. I would ride out xmas and new years and enjoy the last few drinks, then start in Jan. The hardest part for me would be breaking the news to my friends, and trying to find a new way to socialize without the sauce. Not easy, but others have done it and there is no reason I couldn't do it as well.

So I'm happy to announce it now, on about my one month anniversary, that I am sticking to it and intend to complete a one year wagon this time. I am in for the full year as of Jan 11, 2016.

I feel that had I not found this, I probably would have continued my hard drinking lifestyle for at least another decade, until I likely had some really serious health problems. I am committed now, and will stick it out for the full year this time. It has not been an easy month, but I have made it through.

GeneralMacDaddy, thank you for this great, honest post. You came across this thread about 2 years ago, and somehow it stayed with you; and here you are now. Few things could be more gratifying for me to hear.

I feel that you are committed to it, just as you say, and that you'll stick out the full year. The fact that you waited for a month before posting here shows that seriousness. As you already know it won't always be easy, but there is no doubt at all that you can do it.

Welcome aboard as of January 11, 2016, and please check in here again from time to time.

(02-13-2016 02:05 AM)Hades Wrote:  

(02-12-2016 09:28 AM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  9 years for me today, and extending for year number 10.

That's awesome, working on 10 years with no alcohol? Do you day game?

I'm on week two or three, right now I'm just burying myself in hobbies and work. It's not as depriving as I figured, and having money sit in my wallet much longer is nice.

Hades, I described my own drinking a bit in this post. Though I might have talked to girls at various points during a drinking night, music was my true drinking companion -- it was the intensity that I ultimately sought in that state. Fucking is best done stone cold sober and under the harshest and brightest lights.

When I first started my wagon, I sometimes worried that the particular intensity of my relation to music would be taken away from me without the sauce. I had some great, memorable nights drinking and listening to music when I was very young, and I wouldn't give them up for anything; but almost a decade in, my love for it is as or more intense as it's ever been. This past summer, I had maybe the best times listening to music of my entire life.

If you really love something -- whether it be pussy, music, friends, or anything else -- your relation to it will endure and even strengthen on the wagon, as long as you're patient and let life come to you. What takes these things away over time, and in a terrible insidious creeping way, is the death-in-life of serious drunkenness sustained past a young age. I hate what it does to good men; that is why I started this thread, and that is why I keep it up and running.

(02-13-2016 08:34 AM)GeneralMacDaddy Wrote:  First off, I want to really thank TLOZ for creating and maintaining this thread. After reading the entire thing, I've noticed it really has changed many lives for the better. And for everyone that actually posts here, there are hundreds or likely even thousands of others reading along and considering the impacts that alcohol has had on their lives.

I have been a heavy drinker for a long time, ever since high school really. Now that I'm in my mid-30's, that is approximately 20 years, give or take, of hard drinking. Until recently, it was impossible to even imagine my life without alcohol.

I remember once seeing an ad, one of those public service announcements or whatever, that warned against the dangers of binge drinking. "Binge drinking", as this ad defined it, was consuming 5 or more drinks in one evening. I laughed! 5 or more drinks was nothing as I far as we were concerned. How could that have a name, I call that a normal evening. That PSA perhaps set the stage that what I was doing certainly wasn't normal, although it was more than normal amongst my group of friends. You can certainly be blinded to your problems by hanging around with other people who have the exact same problem / addiction as you.

I started to realize I had a problem about 2 years ago. My friend had stopped drinking due to a medical issue, and as a current member of my drinking crew, was complaining about a medically forced 10 days off from our normal routine. I begin thinking to myself, wow 10 days without a drink, that is terrible!

Then somehow, I tried to remember the last time I went 10 days without a drink. In fact I couldn't remember such a time in my life, unless I thought way way back.

I started to think that I maybe should "slow down" a little. See if I could drink less, or maybe go a week without a drink. Of course, with no firm resolve and a life built around drinking, this didn't work at all. I came across this thread about the same time, and I was intrigued. Is taking a year off something that I should do? Was it something that I even could do?

At first the clear answer to me was no, I don't need that, I can slow down on my own without it. I did try a few "mini-wagons", the longest reaching 2 months at one point last year. I was only able to do it because I was in the Philippines at that time, away from my social crew and I could focus on work. I was really feeling good after 2 months, noticing some of the more obvious improvements in sleep, losing some weight, and gaining more focus. So I figured I had it under control and could start drinking "moderately" after that, whatever that meant.

Well, as has happened to many others before me, this did not last. I came back from the Phils to my normal life, and almost immediately after I began to drink again, and soon enough it was like I never quit.

So last December I decided it was time. I would ride out xmas and new years and enjoy the last few drinks, then start in Jan. The hardest part for me would be breaking the news to my friends, and trying to find a new way to socialize without the sauce. Not easy, but others have done it and there is no reason I couldn't do it as well.

So I'm happy to announce it now, on about my one month anniversary, that I am sticking to it and intend to complete a one year wagon this time. I am in for the full year as of Jan 11, 2016.

I feel that had I not found this, I probably would have continued my hard drinking lifestyle for at least another decade, until I likely had some really serious health problems. I am committed now, and will stick it out for the full year this time. It has not been an easy month, but I have made it through.

Great post, I'm sure it will be helpful to the many people who are still drinking heavily and happen to come across this thread as you did.

+1

Glad to have you on RVF.

I just thought I would check in. I'm 21 months sober, and well on my way to finishing my second 1 yr wagon.

Early last fall I moved to Spain. When I first got here I was seeing a doctor/therapist a couple times a month, and on his recommendation I started taking antabuse 3 months ago.

He knew I was going out, meeting women, etc, and felt this would be an extra layer of protection against relapse.

I don't see the therapist anymore, but I'm still taking antabuse.

I don't think I will take it forever, and have recently considered when to stop it.

Here's the interesting thing. During all this time, I have never actually wanted to drink. I have never had a problem that alcohol would solve.

But, I am still an alcoholic.

I realized this yesterday when I was thinking about antabuse as I was taking my morning pill and how much longer I would be taking it for. A voice came on in my head, and started talking to me. The voice said, you know what, you should really consider just having an occasional drink socially when you stop taking antabuse. It would definitely help you widen your social circle and get higher quality bangs.

Here's the reality though - my social circle and my bangs are already pretty good at this point. And if I want to make them better, the way to do it is to continue to improve myself, engage more deeply in activities that I find interesting, meet friends that way, and get better pussy by having a higher value and a positive vibe. Basically, do the work, be patient, and don't look for shortcuts.

I know this rationally. So what was that voice in my head? Was that voice in my head really concerned about me making more friends or getting better pussy? No, of course not. That voice in my head was my inner alcoholic. The only thing that voice in my head wanted was alcohol. Because as soon as I have a drink or two, I forget about socializing in a meaningful way or in a way that I will actually remember or grow from. I think about how to turn 1 or 2 drinks into 3 or 4 drinks. And so on. And if there are other people around, I think about how to hide how much I am drinking from them.

But my inner alcoholic is a clever fellow, he knows that I think a lot about having a better social circle and even higher quality pussy. So, he tells me that he has the answer.