Just an update.

Passed the 10 month mark last weekend, 2 to go for my commitment. Saying it that way makes it sound like I am looking forward to being able to drink again when that is not necessarily the truth.

It's funny how the little drinking beast in my head has started recently talking again that the end of the absolute commitment to abstinence is drawing to an end. I have not really had any cravings or difficulties until the last week or so. In fact drinking is out of mind most of the time and my drinking days are starting to seem like a distant combination of bad and great memories.

So about how this little bastard in my head has been talking.

#1: Hey look in 2 months you can start drinking again, maybe just a little to start but don't go off the reservation crazy and then decide to go back on the wagon because of it. A few Guinness's on a night out would be ok, it's not even about the alcohol. You know you love the taste of Guinness so just do that. Ummm yeah idiot voice I do love Guinness, I also love many other foods and drinks from all over the world that I will probably never have again.

#2. I have had a head cold the last few days. In my drinking days this would be treated with a bottle of brandy making hotti-totti's. You know because honey and lemon is good for you and the brandi is too. The little beast is trying to tell me that doing it would be ok because it wouldn't really be drinking, it would be taking medicine so it wouldn't count against the wagon. Like some cold medicines have alcohol so it's essentially the same thing. WTF ever. I just tell that little voice to shut up and move on.

At this point I am not yet committing to another year. I think I will re-read Jason Vale and Carr again in a month and then put seriously thought into it even though deep down I already know the answer. I got on the wagon for a reason. I previously failed the wagon for various reasons before this success. The reasons to be on the wagon have not changed in the last 10 months, only my perception has.

I made it from Jan 2015 to June 2015 last year. So far I had 3 drinks on new years eve, and have not touched a drop since. I recently developed my personal code as recommended from a book I am reading. One of my new standards is that I will never get drunk again however I am allowed to enjoy up to two drinks at a time with family or friends. I will do the full year then revert back to that standard.

LOZ, thanks for such an inspiring thread, as well as all other posters who took the time to share their stories. Yesterday, it was my second time reading and skimming the thread. I had been thinking about doing this for quite a few months now, and I finally need to hold myself accountable. I don't really write much on the forum but this is a subject I am intimately familiar with through my own life experiences and those of my family and friends who have quit alcohol and drugs.

I am jumping on the wagon officially as of Wednesday, March 2, 2016 and I have every intention of going the full year without a single drop of alcohol. The last 3 or 4 months I haven't been able to control myself when I drink. I am not drinking nearly as much as when I was when I was young, but when I do, I realize I can not control myself. 3 days ago, I was on a boat, hungover, getting seasick. I took one sip of Chang, put the drink down, and decided it was time to stop procrastinating, I knew what needed to be done and what I saw later that night stone cold sober was enough convincing I needed. A cancelled flight and a lot of time in my hotel today has helped really think this through.

I'm 32 years old and have been a heavy binge drinker since I was 17-18 years old. The social pressure to drink in America when your young is enormous. Frankly, I wouldn't have even started drinking if it wasn't about "fitting in" in high school. I went from drinking once a week at 18 to boozing all but one day the summer I was 22. (That's about 95 to 100 days depending on the year). Since then, with a few exceptions, I've mostly kept drinking to weekends, special occasions, and have gone a few months with just moderate drinking, but I don't think I've spent a month in the last 15 years without at least one beer at some point.

Unfortunately, the social pressure won't end there for all you youngsters. The endless amount of weddings, holiday parties, happy hours concerts, football games or whatever other party someone else thinks you need to drink at. And that's not even half of them. There are also the daily one of events that happen every year. I've probably attended all of them in the NYC/Philly area at least once, like "Running of the santas" "wing bowl" "polar bear plunge" "hoboken st. patty's day" "mummers day parade". It almost never ends.

To include some game advice, don't spend too much time with these women over 25 who are still out and about trying sucking face on the weekend. I dated one when I was 27 for a quite a while. These girls will drag you into their misery. I remember trying to start a similar break from alcohol during that time. We ended up going to a wedding together not long after. Of course, I wasn't my normal drinking self and I got scolded for hours for not being social enough. Anyways, long story short, I got shitfaced one night and screamed at her for a while and we broke up. (Ironically, it was one of the dumbest things I've done drunk but it was the best thing that ever happen. Even as I start this today, the despair at that time with that woman was far worse)

To echo some previous posts, 90 percent of stupid shit I've done has been while I am drunk or hungover. LOL, even my one and only warning on the forum was from a post I made when I was day drinking a few months back. I've also lost focus on finishing things through. As an example, I start tons of books that I never end up finishing. This is especially true recently and it takes longer to recover from hangovers and actually be productive when you get older.

I feel the i increasing about of dullness in my life right now that LOZ speaks, and it is why I am on the wagon starting now. I find myself very disinterested in peoples conversations and stories these days, sometimes, I end up tuning it out entirely and just saying something generic like "ah cool". Even going to weddings and visiting my friends' kids is quite a challenging. I know itll be boring as shit so I can even get myself up for them really. (i find weddings receptions quite boring even when im drunk)

Anyways as you can tell, alcohol is no longer helping my life. While initially I don't regret drinking, as it helped me "break out of my shell" so to speak; it hasn't been like that for years.

Thanks for listening, wish me luck.

godzilla, thanks for this great post and welcome aboard as of March 2, 2016. Look forward to hearing more from you on this thread as time goes on.

(03-04-2016 09:19 PM)musashi Wrote:  I made it from Jan 2015 to June 2015 last year. So far I had 3 drinks on new years eve, and have not touched a drop since. I recently developed my personal code as recommended from a book I am reading. One of my new standards is that I will never get drunk again however I am allowed to enjoy up to two drinks at a time with family or friends. I will do the full year then revert back to that standard.

musashi, just to be clear, are in for a full year as of January 1, 2016?

(03-05-2016 10:38 AM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  

(03-04-2016 09:19 PM)musashi Wrote:  I made it from Jan 2015 to June 2015 last year. So far I had 3 drinks on new years eve, and have not touched a drop since. I recently developed my personal code as recommended from a book I am reading. One of my new standards is that I will never get drunk again however I am allowed to enjoy up to two drinks at a time with family or friends. I will do the full year then revert back to that standard.

musashi, just to be clear, are in for a full year as of January 1, 2016?

Yes sir, had my last drink around 9pm on December 31st, 2015

(03-06-2016 06:19 AM)musashi Wrote:  

(03-05-2016 10:38 AM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  

(03-04-2016 09:19 PM)musashi Wrote:  I made it from Jan 2015 to June 2015 last year. So far I had 3 drinks on new years eve, and have not touched a drop since. I recently developed my personal code as recommended from a book I am reading. One of my new standards is that I will never get drunk again however I am allowed to enjoy up to two drinks at a time with family or friends. I will do the full year then revert back to that standard.

musashi, just to be clear, are in for a full year as of January 1, 2016?

Yes sir, had my last drink around 9pm on December 31st, 2015

Thank you. Welcome aboard as of January 1, 2016 and I hope to hear more from you here over time.

Today I commit to the one year challenge. 3/6/2016.

(03-06-2016 11:11 AM)Gimlet Wrote:  Today I commit to the one year challenge. 3/6/2016.

Gimlet, welcome aboard as of March 6, 2016 and I look forward to hearing more from you on this thread as time goes on.

Thanks. I will give it some time before I start speaking on the subject. I am in my 40s, disciplined about diet, disciplined about exercise but have been a heavy drinker since my 20s. This is a serious challenge.

Reporting 3 months in, I've seen more improvements to my mood and social skills. The only problem I've had over the last 3 weeks is a torn shoulder muscle I got at the gym from bench-pressing too much. I havn't lifted any weights since then, and all of a sudden I start thinking about drinking again!

Working out 5 days improved my fitness and overall health, but this injury has been a set-back. It seems strange that I've almost forgotten all of the depression that excessive binge drinking gave me last yr after being sober this yr. I figure that I have to do other things aside from gym work to occupy myself in the future.

(03-02-2016 02:01 PM)Tokyo Joe Wrote:  A rather tardy notification, but I have been on the wagon since 0800 JST on Saturday, October 17, 2015. No drinks – no sips, no gargles, no confections containing alcohol – of any kind whatsoever for one full year. This is the second wagon of my life, after riding out a first one many years ago.

The time stamp of eight o’clock in the morning is not some strange sign of an obsessive/compulsive mind’s attention to detail. The fact is, last year it had become all too common for me to start drinking of an evening and plough straight through well past dawn, as I did that fine fall morning. For the record, my last drink was an ice cold (-2 degree C) Asahi Super Dry draft beer, slurped down with a plate of deep-fried octopus at a little shop inside the Tsukiji Fishmarket, together with my buddy Male Defined – the final stop of our sushi-bar hopping after a leisurely meal (with several big bottles of Kirin) at Sushi Daiwa.

The evening before when I headed out to a Forum meet-up and a long, satisfying night of memorable drinking, it was not my plan to make the night my last before starting this wagon. But when I finally woke up at six the next afternoon, feeling like a million bucks and overcome with an insane urge to walk straight down to my local watering hole and start all over again, I decided right then, sitting on the edge of my bed, it was time to take a serious break.

Of course I’ve always been a serious drinker – a good friend once remarked, “Guy, you’re pretty sick; most people are passing out and you are just getting started” – but the truth is, over a span of many months my drinking was starting to get a bit unseemly. I’d meet friends for dinner and after twelve or fifteen drinks with the meal as a prelude, it was off to a series of bars and clubs – sometimes alone after everyone else faded – until long after sun-up. Or I’d take the occasion of an RVF meet-up or some other reunion, or an even flimsier excuse, to start drinking at noon and run it until the wee-small hours. (Roosh was talking about *me* when he mentioned guys drinking during his DC lecture – I kept slipping out to the hotel lobby bar to refill a pint glass with three shots of Stoli and a dash of soda on ice.) It is not something I like to think about too much now, but I was having 30- to 35-drink nights, several times a month. And although I wasn’t feeling or looking any worse for the wear, it finally occurred to me that all this can’t be good for my body over the long haul. All of your bills have to be paid eventually, and here was one that would no doubt come around with hefty interest – maybe twenty or thirty years from now, but someday for sure.

So, four and a half months have already passed. The most obvious benefits are purely physical. I’m making gains in the gym again, after two years of treading water. At the same time I’ve lost the stubborn spare tire of fat that had quietly gathered round my waist: my Gold’s weightlifting belt is tighter by three notches (8 cm; more than three inches) after four months. (In fact I’ve ditched the belt altogether and am squatting heavier than ever before.) It would take a supersensitive fry to notice that my jawline is slightly better defined and my skin fairer than before, but it is true all the same. Hilariously/vexingly, the combination of four days a week in the gym and no alcohol has caused (a) my libido to shoot through the roof and (b) certain women to be very severely punished by me.

On a mental level, I am again hatching new life plans and making some unusual moves that I suspect I would have just let go if I were still boozing. I’ll write more about this in another place when the time is right, but wanted to point out that in this regard the wagon is paying off in ways similar to my first one.

As advertised, the spiritual benefits of the wagon are subtle but deep. It is hard to explain but I’m more open to the world and everything that crosses my path – whether it’s the black pastor in Harlem or the seasoned slut behind the counter at the convenience store or the threadbare trees of a Tokyo winter. When I’m out on the streets, or sitting in a café somewhere, I’m catching sight of all manner of things that somehow I was missing before. And I’ve noticed that in my drinking days, when I was immersed in some piece of work that demanded serious concentration, a small part of my mind would itch and be scratched with the thought, when this is done it will be nice to repair to that place and have that cold beer… but now when I’m engrossed in something that requires my attention, there is no after – there is only the moment and whatever is on my plate in that moment. It is an altogether superior way of standing in relation to the world, or so it seems to me.

Of course the wagon isn’t always a bed of roses (and incidentally I am enraged to no end by posters here who claim to be on the wagon and then experience the shallow and inane faux-revelation that drinking is, and always was, meaningless or a stupid waste of time). I have had to forego taking part in certain drunken get-togethers that I know would have been sublime experiences, and other times I have joined old friends for Japanese feasts where all others were drinking but I was sober as a Mormon. I’ve made the pilgrimage to all my favorite haunts and explained to the uncomprehending faces (Hayashi-san among them) that no, I am not drinking just now, and no I am not terminally ill. Whereas on my first wagon I withdrew from the world in many respects, this time around I am making a point of carrying on with my life in the same way, only without the drink. As a result I have every confidence that I will benefit much more from this ride than the last one.

One last and minor point – I had no intention of this at the outset, but now I am enjoying the feeling of keeping the faith with Donald Trump, one of the great teetotalers of human history. It gets to me every time I hear him tell the story of his older brother Fred. I know all too well what it’s like to have siblings whose lives are reduced by drinking, and it is unspeakably sad.

***
Good luck to all of you here, whether on the wagon, off the wagon, waiting for your turn to hop on or just watching it roll by. And thanks again to The Lizard for starting and minding this life-changing thread. --TJ

Welcome
I'm only a few weeks ahead of you

Its quite an interesting weekend to be 10 days in....

Philadelphia has one of the larger Irish ancestries in country, so on St. Patrick's day, it quite a party here. There is something called "Erin Express". Its basically just a bus that takes you to a couple different bars with a fancy name to it.... Its 11 am and I can literally hear drunk people yelling at each other about 4 doors up the block. Swarms of green people begin to fill the neighborhood with shot glass necklaces, and Kiss my I'm Irish t-shirts. I live next to a corner store; its a good location because I get to see a lot of people walk by. I can already tell you its a good day to sell ice.

Today is quite difficult to just skip the bar all together. So I'm gonna give it a shot with sober game today; there is nothing more annoying then drunk people though

Hello everyone. Time for me to check in/share/contribute. Had a rough past couple of weeks, and ended up flirting with a fall back into depression(been horrible for me in the past). Excuse me if this post rambles, I'm not trying to be polished.

I'm still on the wagon, technically at least. I say technically because while I have not had any alcohol, I have smoked pot excessively in the past couple of weeks. I respect that some people might think, hey that's bullshit, this wagon is about alcohol, and marijuana is harmless. That's probably true for most people, but I tend to have an unhealthy relationship with any drug I use.

For the past few months, things had overall been fairly good for me. No alcohol, no desire to use alcohol, sticking to increasingly serious workout routine, very occasional and social pot use, excellent nutrition.

Then 3 weeks ago, I had surgery. All of a sudden, I couldn't work out, and was mostly stuck in my apartment, feeling like crap.

I started to eat poorly and excessively. Sugary crap, pizza, etc etc.

My overall mood started to go downhill. I neglected reading or educational things in favor of mindless mass market entertainment and reading about politics.

I also started to go more often to a friend's bar, not to drink, but to hang out and because he is a member of a cannabis club and always has pot and gets it for me too. Instead of hanging out and leaving it at that after a shared joint, I would get a few grams, and go back to my apartment, smoke by myself and just waste time, and start to think negatively about life and my own choices.

I realized earlier this week that I was headed down a dark path, and that if I fell into depression again, I would be very tempted to leave the wagon and say fuck it to everything.

I still can't exercise until this coming week, so I had to find a different solution that didn't involve pot or alcohol or whatever.

I got up off my ass, and remembered what a photo journalist friend told me about the early stages of her career, fake it until you make it.

I picked back up on a photography project I haven't done work on for a while, it involves photographing really old people and their youngest direct descendant.

This week I photographed a 106 year old woman and her 2 month old great granddaughter, a 109 year old woman and her 5 year old great granddaughter, and today I am going to photograph a 111 year old man and his 4 year old great grandson (he is 3rd oldest in world, and oldest in Spain).

This has been somewhat helpful, but this morning I woke up and felt crappy and flat. My normal solution of exercise wasn't an option. I was online, reading Facebook and news and RVF, and not getting any better.

So I ended up on youtube and searched for guided meditation. I watched 3 videos, and honestly, it helped a lot. Not some magic solution that makes me feel overpowering energy like I do at the end of a workout or after an especially memorable notch, but a positive feeling of peace that displaced the negative feelings.

Here is one of the videos I watched:





I've had meditation recommended to me by people, but now I see the benefit. I realize that my previous thoughts of it being something wishy washy, weak, beta, or effeminate were wrong.

For me, I'm going to add it to my toolbox of positive habits (exercise, reading, hiking) that keep me not only on the wagon, but in a good frame of mind to enjoy life.

I think for a wagon to be truly successful, you have to find joy and interest and positivity in everyday life and wherever you are right now, at this moment in time.

This hasn't been an easy thing for me to do in my life, and it's something I've struggled a lot with.

Anyway, if anyone else has similar experiences, and suggestions on what's worked for them, I'm always up for listening.

I fell off the wagon about 3-4 weeks ago. I made it about two and a half months without drinking. I was playing in a men's league tournament where drinking beer is a priority and I caved. I've drank a couple more times since then.

I have to say that even though I failed on making it the full year, my perception of alcohol has changed significantly after taking a couple months off. It has actually been quite liberating. I realized that I perform better at everything and I'm much happier when I don't drink.

I was hampstering away alcohol harder than Lindy West getting her cholesterol checked. I was in denial about the self-inflicting damage my body was subjected to on a regular basis. I feel like I've taken off the drunk goggles and can see life from a whole new perspective.

I've been focused on lifting heavy and losing weight. I've lost nearly twenty pounds since the wagon and am seeing my abs for the first time in my life. I like waking up after a good night of sleep and not being hungover. I like having extra money in the bank because I'm not blowing it at the bar.

But it also felt liberating to grab a few beers on Friday after a long week of work. Where the old me would've went to the next bar after dinner and drinks, I went home and went to bed because I had a lot of errands to run Saturday and didn't want to be hungover. I see alcohol differently now but I know I'm only a few drinks away from falling back into my old habits if I'm not careful.

I'm going to give the moderate drinking thing a try and see if I can make it work for me. Since starting the wagon I've been tracking all my calories on my Fitbit. Fitness has become more important than getting drunk. I'm getting older and my priorities are changing. I've been in a slow and painful transition from college party mode to adult mode. But I'm starting to like adult me much better than drunk college me.

I'll continue to post updates in this thread and will post a new start date if I choose to hop back onto the wagon.

I also want to thank everyone on this thread and the forum in general. My high school self wouldn't even recognize the person I've become. I still have a long way to go, but I would never be where I'm at today personally, mentally, or physically without the help of his forum.

VVVV, here are some thoughts in response to your post.

First: for guys who have depressive tendencies and who have had a history of abusing this or that drug, a complete abstinence from all of them is really the best idea. No drinks, no pot, no smokes, and either no caffeine or extremely regular ritualized consumption of caffeine once a day, early in the day and never on an empty stomach. To this you can add maintaining a consistently healthy diet with an abundance of great proteins and fats and a general avoidance of sugar and sugary "treats". I sometimes call this the Full Mormon program.

As you know from your own experience, the depressive brain is exquisitely sensitive to all mood altering substances, both stimulants and depressants, it hungers for them and takes to them all too readily -- and it is, unfortunately, harshly punished by them. For this reason, they are best avoided altogether. While this may sound very dull and a little dreadful, it is, like most other things, really just a matter of habit. If you were to consistently adopt a full Mormon lifestyle -- stay on the wagon, but also forget about pot, eliminate or rigidly regularize caffeine consumption, and minimize consumption of sugars (including backdoor ways of getting your sugar fix like excessive fruit juicing) -- you would find, after just a few weeks, that you are feeling consistently better day in day out; not better as in feeling "amazing" or ecstatic -- that is not the point -- but better in an even, steady, level way with far fewer of the lows that the depressive brain is so prone to. For a guy like yourself, that is really the way to go.

At the same time, while you should adopt a suite of full Mormon habits that avoids insult to the depressive brain and contributes to an even, steady and consistent day-to-day mood, you should also learn another habit, and that is to discount and dismiss your moods -- both high and low -- as much as possible. Something that strikes me about your posts is your emphasis on how you're "feeling" -- whether it be "crappy", or "amazing", or somewhere in between. The thing to understand is that this concentration on mood, very generally, is almost entirely useless and counterproductive.

In life, on any give day one feels as one does; this is acknowledged, and should then be mostly dismissed as something of no great importance. Of course, one should over time adopt the habits that are conducive to feeling well more often than not; but the expectation of feeling "amazing" at all times is a childish one and a man should simply let it go. It's best to just get on with the business of each day, no matter what one's "mood" happens to be; that is, ultimately, the way to live a more interesting and enjoyable life, because the artifacts of mood and its day-to-day variation are of far lesser value than the objective world outside the self and our modest and habitual engagement with it. If you do happen to feel "amazing", you should consider it a privilege and be grateful for it; but it is not something that you should expect on any given day, or seek to bring about urgently by any particular means, except for the adoption of long-term habits that will maximize the likelihood of feeling steadily well enough (but not necessarily "amazing") on a day to day basis.

Finally, while I don't exactly know your particular circumstances, I can't help thinking that a guy like yourself would benefit from a very regular and habitual routine of work that you engage in almost as if it were a kind of 9 to 5 job (even if it isn't). I seem to remember that sometime ago you came into possession of some money that allows you to live more or less as you please; that is great, but is also something that many men do not always respond well to. In my experience, guys who have what I called the depressive brain respond better than anything else to quite well-defined day to day structures; they tend to flail and flag when they are at loose ends and left to themselves. Occasional photography projects and the like may well be enjoyable but I don't think they replace the need for a reasonably well-structured routine that one can come back to day in day out, picking up today where you've left off yesterday, achieving goals set over long periods of time, and making money in the process. This is really the best way for almost all men to structure their time, and especially so for depressive types who tend to abandon such routines all too readily given the least opportunity. Even if you are not forced to do so by your financial circumstances, you should find a productive structure of this kind and devote yourself to it over a long and sustained period of time.

I hope you find these thoughts to be of some use. When a man is very young, he thinks of life as a succession of enthusiasms; but what one sees over time is that it is really a fabric of habits. If you eliminate bad habits, adopt good ones, and dismiss any concentration on mere "mood", you may over time experience a satisfaction with life and with the world that makes up in depth and subtlety for what it seemingly lacks in intensity. Give it a try.

Haven't had a drop of alcohol since 1/21/2016.

Need to find some alternative hobbies though. Friends just want to go to bars on weekends. Bowling, shooting pool, rock climbing.

VVVV,

It sounds like you traded one addiction for another. That's not uncommon. A lot of people who quit alcohol entirely pick up other habits, like drinking tons of coffee or coca cola, and smoking cigarettes.

No one wants to hear this but marijuana is not completely harmless. It's certainly nothing like alcohol. But, you might not realize its fucking with your mood

I haven't smoked for a really long time. But in the past, marijuana (like coffee) fucked with my sleep and proper sleep is probably one of the most important things I think.

Not sure where your located but I find myself feeling shittier in the winter too. If your spending a lot of time indoors, sometimes, I find it helpful just to sit outside for a while and get some sun. Even if your playing around on your computer. Bring it outside with you.

Lizard of Oz,

Thank you for a well written, well though out, and helpful post. You are part of what makes RVF such a strong community.
I'm going to sleep on it, give it some thought, read your post again tomorrow (midnight here now), and write out a more complete response then.

I have been shuffling a few things in my life lately. Might as well get this sucker on board too. Oz, count me in.

And as always thank you for your contributions to this forum.

(03-13-2016 07:00 PM)alphaspiraton Wrote:  I have been shuffling a few things in my life lately. Might as well get this sucker on board too. Oz, count me in.

And as always thank you for your contributions to this forum.

alphaspiraton, are you in for a full year? A 1 year wagon is a serious commitment so I want to make sure you've thought it through -- your post sounds a little spur of the moment.

If you've made a decision and are committing to a full year, please post your start date here.

(03-13-2016 07:12 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  

(03-13-2016 07:00 PM)alphaspiraton Wrote:  I have been shuffling a few things in my life lately. Might as well get this sucker on board too. Oz, count me in.

And as always thank you for your contributions to this forum.

alphaspiraton, are you in for a full year? A 1 year wagon is a serious commitment so I want to make sure you've thought it through -- your post sounds a little spur of the moment.

If you've made a decision and are committing to a full year, please post your start date here.

Yes I'm in for a full year. In the past I have gone cold turkey on a few things, and figured this is something I should have done a while ago. It obviously won't be easy but I'm 100% committed. Start date will be today, 3/13/16.

(03-13-2016 07:22 PM)alphaspiraton Wrote:  

(03-13-2016 07:12 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  

(03-13-2016 07:00 PM)alphaspiraton Wrote:  I have been shuffling a few things in my life lately. Might as well get this sucker on board too. Oz, count me in.

And as always thank you for your contributions to this forum.

alphaspiraton, are you in for a full year? A 1 year wagon is a serious commitment so I want to make sure you've thought it through -- your post sounds a little spur of the moment.

If you've made a decision and are committing to a full year, please post your start date here.

Yes I'm in for a full year. In the past I have gone cold turkey on a few things, and figured this is something I should have done a while ago. It obviously won't be easy but I'm 100% committed. Start date will be today, 3/13/16.

alphaspiraton, thank you and welcome aboard as of March 13, 2016. Hope to hear more from you on this thread over time.

Well I'm still on the wagon; March 13th. Life has changed a little; I feel more enthusiastic about things and I'm becoming more creative. I don't know why I chose today to post instead of the 17th which would be a month away but time is just a number and I felt like this was a milestone in terms of the change I have experienced in how I view myself. I don't see myself drinking for a long time but I have had dreams recently of drinking liters of alcohol with friends of mine from the social circle I had to leave and don't hang out with anymore. It's a complicated scenario I can't elaborate on due to identification issues. I'm not a significantly changed man but I have seen significant changes. Thank you all.

(03-13-2016 11:20 AM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  VVVV, here are some thoughts in response to your post.

First: for guys who have depressive tendencies and who have had a history of abusing this or that drug, a complete abstinence from all of them is really the best idea. No drinks, no pot, no smokes, and either no caffeine or extremely regular ritualized consumption of caffeine once a day, early in the day and never on an empty stomach. To this you can add maintaining a consistently healthy diet with an abundance of great proteins and fats and a general avoidance of sugar and sugary "treats". I sometimes call this the Full Mormon program.

As you know from your own experience, the depressive brain is exquisitely sensitive to all mood altering substances, both stimulants and depressants, it hungers for them and takes to them all too readily -- and it is, unfortunately, harshly punished by them. For this reason, they are best avoided altogether. While this may sound very dull and a little dreadful, it is, like most other things, really just a matter of habit. If you were to consistently adopt a full Mormon lifestyle -- stay on the wagon, but also forget about pot, eliminate or rigidly regularize caffeine consumption, and minimize consumption of sugars (including backdoor ways of getting your sugar fix like excessive fruit juicing) -- you would find, after just a few weeks, that you are feeling consistently better day in day out; not better as in feeling "amazing" or ecstatic -- that is not the point -- but better in an even, steady, level way with far fewer of the lows that the depressive brain is so prone to. For a guy like yourself, that is really the way to go.

At the same time, while you should adopt a suite of full Mormon habits that avoids insult to the depressive brain and contributes to an even, steady and consistent day-to-day mood, you should also learn another habit, and that is to discount and dismiss your moods -- both high and low -- as much as possible. Something that strikes me about your posts is your emphasis on how you're "feeling" -- whether it be "crappy", or "amazing", or somewhere in between. The thing to understand is that this concentration on mood, very generally, is almost entirely useless and counterproductive.

In life, on any give day one feels as one does; this is acknowledged, and should then be mostly dismissed as something of no great importance. Of course, one should over time adopt the habits that are conducive to feeling well more often than not; but the expectation of feeling "amazing" at all times is a childish one and a man should simply let it go. It's best to just get on with the business of each day, no matter what one's "mood" happens to be; that is, ultimately, the way to live a more interesting and enjoyable life, because the artifacts of mood and its day-to-day variation are of far lesser value than the objective world outside the self and our modest and habitual engagement with it. If you do happen to feel "amazing", you should consider it a privilege and be grateful for it; but it is not something that you should expect on any given day, or seek to bring about urgently by any particular means, except for the adoption of long-term habits that will maximize the likelihood of feeling steadily well enough (but not necessarily "amazing") on a day to day basis.

Finally, while I don't exactly know your particular circumstances, I can't help thinking that a guy like yourself would benefit from a very regular and habitual routine of work that you engage in almost as if it were a kind of 9 to 5 job (even if it isn't). I seem to remember that sometime ago you came into possession of some money that allows you to live more or less as you please; that is great, but is also something that many men do not always respond well to. In my experience, guys who have what I called the depressive brain respond better than anything else to quite well-defined day to day structures; they tend to flail and flag when they are at loose ends and left to themselves. Occasional photography projects and the like may well be enjoyable but I don't think they replace the need for a reasonably well-structured routine that one can come back to day in day out, picking up today where you've left off yesterday, achieving goals set over long periods of time, and making money in the process. This is really the best way for almost all men to structure their time, and especially so for depressive types who tend to abandon such routines all too readily given the least opportunity. Even if you are not forced to do so by your financial circumstances, you should find a productive structure of this kind and devote yourself to it over a long and sustained period of time.

I hope you find these thoughts to be of some use. When a man is very young, he thinks of life as a succession of enthusiasms; but what one sees over time is that it is really a fabric of habits. If you eliminate bad habits, adopt good ones, and dismiss any concentration on mere "mood", you may over time experience a satisfaction with life and with the world that makes up in depth and subtlety for what it seemingly lacks in intensity. Give it a try.

So I've been thinking over what you have written, and I think restarting my wagon, full mormon style is the best choice.

I have a couple areas of concern though - TRT and tea/caffeine/coffee.

I already know the likely answer to my self prescribed TRT, that it is likely cheating and not a good idea. I started it up last week because I remembered how normal/good I felt when using and abusing testosterone in the past.

As for tea/caffeine/coffee, I am totally ok with eliminating coffee, also I don't drink energy drinks, so no issue there. But what about tea? The past few months I got into drinking high quality japanese green or white tea 2 or 3 times a day, sometimes on an empty stomach, and a rooibos tea at night after dinner.

Lastly, you made a very good point about a regular sort of work routine preferably with other people. That's kind of a difficult one for me, as even if I had a work permit, there are limited professional opportunities in southern Spain. I figured on filling my time with photography, volunteering with red cross, and exercise/culture/entertainment. Yet I think this doesn't fulfill or engage me in a way that would be good for me. You are right on the mark on that. But to be honest, I really didn't like the jobs I have had thus far. I've thought about something like doing a history PhD or going back to the US for law school, as well as several other things, but I really haven't figured it out at all yet.

And in the mix of all of this is a serious relationship that I am in, and where I don't know if I want to commit to her and have a family in the near future, or hit the gym hard and bang some sluts. It's not just an easy question of dump the girlfriend. She is someone I first met and dated when I was 20, and she is a really kind and caring woman who treats me very well and loves me. Recently I have been looking at problems instead of possibilities in the relationship, since in some ways we are different, and because she is 36 and didn't go to a fancy university or career route, and is not an adventurous type.

Sorry if this post is not 100% concise and coherent and rational, my brain is still being a depressive asshole, and not working right. By the end of this week, following my routine, it will be better again, but the deeper questions/problems of how to organize my days/professional life and what choice to make with my relationship will remain.

I also think you added a lot of value in reminding me to deconstruct and dismiss my moods instead of dwell on them. I do a good job of that when I keep myself busy and when I'm exercising. I'm able to handle stress/disappointments as well as the good times, and I'm mindful of my surroundings and simple pleasures like a walk in the park. But when a depressive state hits, even if it's not an awful full on episode where I end up in a bad way, it becomes very difficult. Maybe the thoughts/emotions/feelings aren't "real" but they damn sure feel real, and I find it almost impossible to shake (I don't know if you have experienced depression, but is fucked up). Objectively nothing is really wrong with my life, sure I've had some shit experiences, but things are good know, and there are doors open if I want to. Yet various times in the past week, I've had an overwhelming feeling of being inferior/worthless, as well as questioning whether any good things will come of life. And the most insidious part of this is that it distracts me from finding appreciation in the small things that make life good. Like a joke, or a playful dog, or an interesting sunset. Anyway, enough of me feeding the negative thoughts.

Your post is insightful enough that when I read it again tomorrow, I'm sure I will take away even more.