Post: #251

(05-24-2015 03:18 PM)Moma Wrote:  french, from knowing nothing to now..you are now at the point where you can interview for at least $400 a day or do your own thing in coding, am I correct?

Yeah, I've been improving pretty much every day though, I've rarely given myself a day off, even on holiday I'm reading relevant blogs and stuff

Post: #252

Flask is a fantastic web framework. I recommend that everyone try it. Its more 'pythony' than django.

Post: #253

(05-24-2015 04:03 PM)frenchcorporation Wrote:  

(05-24-2015 03:18 PM)Moma Wrote:  french, from knowing nothing to now..you are now at the point where you can interview for at least $400 a day or do your own thing in coding, am I correct?

Yeah, I've been improving pretty much every day though, I've rarely given myself a day off, even on holiday I'm reading relevant blogs and stuff

So that was almost 2 years ago. I'm very impressed.

Post: #254

(05-24-2015 04:03 PM)frenchcorporation Wrote:  

(05-24-2015 03:18 PM)Moma Wrote:  french, from knowing nothing to now..you are now at the point where you can interview for at least $400 a day or do your own thing in coding, am I correct?

Yeah, I've been improving pretty much every day though, I've rarely given myself a day off, even on holiday I'm reading relevant blogs and stuff

That's really how you make the big bucks. Especially in the UK where contracting is like twice the rate of salary jobs. I was just out there last week trying to win some contract work from my former UK work contacts.

In regards to your question what to do with the extra 2 days a week. I work an indeterminate schedule as an independent data sci consultant. When I'm not on client, I'm usually doing sales, improving my tech/math skills, building my own data products/demo software, working out, or gaming chicks.

Initially I was spending like 30%-40% of my time on sales when I was building up my client base. Now I probably spend around 10%-20% on client sales, even then it's usually through referrals at this point.

I reallocated that time I used to use for sales to skill development. For instance, at the moment I'm building out a social media analytics system to demo to clients and utilizing for my own business ventures.

Post: #255

(05-24-2015 04:35 PM)iamrichandiambeautiful Wrote:  Flask is a fantastic web framework. I recommend that everyone try it. Its more 'pythony' than django.

yeah flask is more pythonic than django, and its also a great way to understand how web frameworks work

I prefer using django because it comes with stuff built it that I'd up writing myself if I used flask, like sessions, admin backend, database plugin etc

(05-24-2015 04:38 PM)Moma Wrote:  

(05-24-2015 04:03 PM)frenchcorporation Wrote:  

(05-24-2015 03:18 PM)Moma Wrote:  french, from knowing nothing to now..you are now at the point where you can interview for at least $400 a day or do your own thing in coding, am I correct?

Yeah, I've been improving pretty much every day though, I've rarely given myself a day off, even on holiday I'm reading relevant blogs and stuff

So that was almost 2 years ago. I'm very impressed.

Thanks, its been a tough but enjoyable process

edit: Something I've realised (thats probably common knowledge to everybody else) is that there are things that are valuable to employers/clients that are often undervalued by the worker, like being available immediately, speaking good english etc.

One of those such things is having a blog, it has really helped. Recruiters are often going out on a limb to recruit people, so they will latch on to anything that can allay their own fears and the fears of the company they are representing.

Having a github/code portfolio is great for technical interviewers to look at, but for recruiters and other non-technical people, having a simple blog, detailing stuff you've done with the technology, along with small snippets of code, is in my opinion more important than having a link to an often impenetrable wall of code on your github.

(05-24-2015 04:46 PM)cibo Wrote:  That's really how you make the big bucks. Especially in the UK where contracting is like twice the rate of salary jobs. I was just out there last week trying to win some contract work from my former UK work contacts.

In regards to your question what to do with the extra 2 days a week. I work an indeterminate schedule as an independent data sci consultant. When I'm not on client, I'm usually doing sales, improving my tech/math skills, building my own data products/demo software, working out, or gaming chicks.

Initially I was spending like 30%-40% of my time on sales when I was building up my client base. Now I probably spend around 10%-20% on client sales, even then it's usually through referrals at this point.

I reallocated that time I used to use for sales to skill development. For instance, at the moment I'm building out a social media analytics system to demo to clients and utilizing for my own business ventures.

Thanks for responding to the thread , how did you build your client base? There's a sales guy in my team but it'd be good to get some more intel on this

Post: #256

(05-24-2015 05:05 PM)frenchcorporation Wrote:  

(05-24-2015 04:35 PM)iamrichandiambeautiful Wrote:  Flask is a fantastic web framework. I recommend that everyone try it. Its more 'pythony' than django.

yeah flask is more pythonic than django, and its also a great way t understand how web framework work

I prefer using django because it comes with stuff built it that I'd up writing myself if I used flask, like sessions, admin backend, database plugin etc

(05-24-2015 04:38 PM)Moma Wrote:  

(05-24-2015 04:03 PM)frenchcorporation Wrote:  

(05-24-2015 03:18 PM)Moma Wrote:  french, from knowing nothing to now..you are now at the point where you can interview for at least $400 a day or do your own thing in coding, am I correct?

Yeah, I've been improving pretty much every day though, I've rarely given myself a day off, even on holiday I'm reading relevant blogs and stuff

So that was almost 2 years ago. I'm very impressed.

Thanks, its been a tough but enjoyable process

edit: Something I've realised (thats probably common knowledge to everybody else) is that there are things that are valuable to employers/clients that are often undervalued by the worker, like being available immediately, speaking good english etc.

One of those such things is having a blog, it has really helped. Recruiters are often going out on a limb to recruit people, so they will latch on to anything that can allay their own fears and the fears of the company they are representing.

Having a github/code portfolio is great for technical interviewers to look at, but for recruiters and other non-technical people, having a simple blog, detailing stuff you've done with the technology, along with small snippets of code, is in my opinion more important than having a link to an often impenetrable wall of code on your github.

(05-24-2015 04:46 PM)cibo Wrote:  That's really how you make the big bucks. Especially in the UK where contracting is like twice the rate of salary jobs. I was just out there last week trying to win some contract work from my former UK work contacts.

In regards to your question what to do with the extra 2 days a week. I work an indeterminate schedule as an independent data sci consultant. When I'm not on client, I'm usually doing sales, improving my tech/math skills, building my own data products/demo software, working out, or gaming chicks.

Initially I was spending like 30%-40% of my time on sales when I was building up my client base. Now I probably spend around 10%-20% on client sales, even then it's usually through referrals at this point.

I reallocated that time I used to use for sales to skill development. For instance, at the moment I'm building out a social media analytics system to demo to clients and utilizing for my own business ventures.

Thanks for responding to the thread , how did you build your client base? There's a sales guy in my team but it'd be good to get some more intel on this

I actually get this question a lot by corporate people since a lot of people are amazed I just go out and get clients. Sales is very much business pickup game with about 75%-80% overlap with your chick pick up game. Admittingly, it was very tough getting my business started in the beginning and it helped that I worked in well known tech companies and went to good schools. But it was still a grind.

Reach out to your friends, former co-workers, previous clients, alumni, basically people you know and are in the place to help first. Just like start a conversation. Invite them out to lunch or something and talk about crap, then eventually mention what you're doing. Ask them if they know anyone that would need your help. They might know one person on the spot, follow up afterwards for the contact info with an email thanking them for the time and asking them for ANY additional contacts not just the ones mentioned. People are more likely to remember another person or two after they speak with you. Message those people, mention you were referred by the previous person. Invite out for lunch, rinse and repeat.

The other area of leads for me has been going to conferences and conventions. These are people that are there because they are important enough to be sponsored by a company to go these events. You can usually find the decision makers since a lot of people are trying to kiss ass. Start up a conversation like a day game pick up with them or open on a subordinate and then move to decision maker. Ask them about X, bullshit. Most people at this level are quite involved in their work, especially tech people so talking about new tech trends is usually an easy opener. It also gives you a chance to demonstrate your knowledge of current tech trends. Eventually, get their contact info, follow up and invite out to lunch. These events can be a bit expensive so try and be a bit choosey on which ones you go to. Check out the reviews before hand. Also don't your waste time on the seminars and panels (unless maybe there's a certificate involved). You can get that info online for free afterwards. You're going for leads.

There's also local meet-ups (the site) but I find them to be a source of wannabe's . A few times you might find someone good but usually I get a bunch of people who just want to get into the field or entrepreneurs who want free work. It's an OK place to find hungry newly grads for intern work but I consider this option a last resort like street daygame pick up.

Eventually someone will be interested in trying you out. You might need to give a discount or do some free work to win the contract. But, on balance if the client is worth it, a small to medium discount is worth it. If they get really bitchy about your costs, it might be a good idea to just pass on them if they're really out of line with reasonable costs. I took a contract starting out that I felt would really be tough to deliver on due to costs and short deadline. I told the client that but they didn't listen and just got pissed when things turned out exactly like I said it would.

Knowing when to walk away from bad clients is a really important skill just like knowing when to dump bad chicks. Sometimes screening is the best method of sales. It gives you better clients that trust you, give better work, pay better , improves your reputation and refer you to other good clients since they're more likely similar to your other good ones.

Do this long enough and deliver well, you should develop a fairly stable client base.

Edit: added a bit more detail on the follow up email.

Post: #257

Thanks for the info, its very much appreciated

Post: #258

Also I forgot to mention, do your work around other people if possible. I picked up clients by doing the elderly opener at the Starbucks I always go to. It's in a good part of town, and while not far from my house, it's worth the extra few miles.

If you're in London, I'd recommend hanging out around shoreditch sometimes. There's some good work share places, pubs and coffee shops there for tech people.

Next time I'm in town I'll PM you.

Post: #259

(05-24-2015 06:10 PM)cibo Wrote:  Also I forgot to mention, do your work around other people if possible. I picked up clients by doing the elderly opener at the Starbucks I always go to. It's in a good part of town, and while not far from my house, it's worth the extra few miles.

If you're in London, I'd recommend hanging out around shoreditch sometimes. There's some good work share places, pubs and coffee shops there for tech people.

Next time I'm in town I'll PM you.

I'll take that advice, I'm in london at the moment, this potential new job isn't though, and yeah let me know when you're in town

Post: #260

Tagged. I need to brush up. I only used python for astrophysics research and some basic mathematics really.

Post: #261

Old thread but I just wanted to say that as someone who recently graduated with a computer science degree and hasn't been able to find a job in the last 3 months, reading this was pretty inspiring. I'm having trouble with the old catch 22 - people want to hire workers with experience but you can't get experience if no one wants to hire you. Definitely wish I had done an internship during my time in school.

Post: #262

frenchcorp, are you still pursuing Scala and a more quantitative skillset?

Post: #263

(08-21-2015 02:27 AM)magellan Wrote:  frenchcorp, are you still pursuing Scala and a more quantitative skillset?

yes to both, I'm still building things with scala, and working on algorithims in python and scala

I recently did a coding test for an Investment bank, and scored very high. My cv has been passed on to developers at the bank, and I'm waiting to hear back

Ive also had a couple interviews for standard python web dev contracts, but the bank role is the one i want. Even though its a permanent job and I like to move around, getting a few years experience at a bank doing quant stuff will help me progress in that direction

also, I didnt get the job i posted about a few months back, bad timing concerning the start date and the notice I had to give at my current place

Post: #264

A lot of this thread (which is amazing) has been geared towards part-time efforts by people who are already working a primary.

If someone were to put full-time effort into learning a coding skillset, how long would you estimate it to get to a beginner level proficiency and get hired for a job. The idea would be to continue to grow on that entry-level job.

Post: #265

(08-21-2015 03:54 PM)frenchcorporation Wrote:  

(08-21-2015 02:27 AM)magellan Wrote:  frenchcorp, are you still pursuing Scala and a more quantitative skillset?

yes to both, I'm still building things with scala, and working on algorithims in python and scala

I recently did a coding test for an Investment bank, and scored very high. My cv has been passed on to developers at the bank, and I'm waiting to hear back

Ive also had a couple interviews for standard python web dev contracts, but the bank role is the one i want. Even though its a permanent job and I like to move around, getting a few years experience at a bank doing quant stuff will help me progress in that direction

also, I didnt get the job i posted about a few months back, bad timing concerning the start date and the notice I had to give at my current place

Very cool. Any recommended sources for scala and algos? I'm bored of cookie cutter web dev and am considering making a similar move as a way to set myself up for more interesting and potentially lucrative work down the line.

Post: #266

(08-21-2015 09:31 PM)magellan Wrote:  

(08-21-2015 03:54 PM)frenchcorporation Wrote:  

(08-21-2015 02:27 AM)magellan Wrote:  frenchcorp, are you still pursuing Scala and a more quantitative skillset?

yes to both, I'm still building things with scala, and working on algorithims in python and scala

I recently did a coding test for an Investment bank, and scored very high. My cv has been passed on to developers at the bank, and I'm waiting to hear back

Ive also had a couple interviews for standard python web dev contracts, but the bank role is the one i want. Even though its a permanent job and I like to move around, getting a few years experience at a bank doing quant stuff will help me progress in that direction

also, I didnt get the job i posted about a few months back, bad timing concerning the start date and the notice I had to give at my current place

Very cool. Any recommended sources for scala and algos? I'm bored of cookie cutter web dev and am considering making a similar move as a way to set myself up for more interesting and potentially lucrative work down the line.

there anrent many good scala tutorials, these are the ones I used:
https://twitter.github.io/scala_school/basics.html
http://www.tutorialspoint.com/scala/


and for algorithims, im working through the problems listed here
https://leetcode.com/problemset/algorithms/

Post: #267

Good thread going here, and thanks to all the guys contributing their knowledge and experiences.

I'm also just starting out in learning web/software development with the intention to start a career (hopefully location independent) in this field; specializing in iOS, MEAN stack, Ruby on Rails.

Currently I'm attending a Coding Bootcamp in Seattle (http://www.codingdojo.com), and would be more than happy to answer any questions anyone who might be considering attending a similar course.

With that being said, I don't have a background in computer science, majored in Finance in college and didn't think I was cut out for programming etc, but wanted to take a shot at it and found that a coding bootcamp would probably suit me and my learning style best (in class instruction and a intensive tempo work best for me). So far my experience has been incredible and at my bootcamp.

Considering the amount of time I've been at it, I've become incredibly proficient in the stacks and technologies taught thus far. So far in my program we've learned LAMP, MEAN, Node.js, Ruby on Rails, various algorithms and data structures with iOS left to be taught.

If you can swing the tuition and you're serious about learning web dev/software dev, I would recommend attending a coding bootcamp.

I don't want to repeat anything about learning programming languages etc that has already been said, so if anyone has any coding bootcamp specific questions I'll try to answer as best I can or point you in the right direction.

Cheers.

Post: #268

(08-23-2015 01:29 AM)edmunddantes Wrote:  Considering the amount of time I've been at it, I've become incredibly proficient in the stacks and technologies taught thus far. So far in my program we've learned LAMP, MEAN, Node.js, Ruby on Rails, various algorithms and data structures with iOS left to be taught.

How long has it been going on? Its quite bold to say that you have become incredibly proficient in that many technologies, Id say it would take years.

Post: #269

(08-23-2015 11:55 AM)evilhei Wrote:  

(08-23-2015 01:29 AM)edmunddantes Wrote:  Considering the amount of time I've been at it, I've become incredibly proficient in the stacks and technologies taught thus far. So far in my program we've learned LAMP, MEAN, Node.js, Ruby on Rails, various algorithms and data structures with iOS left to be taught.

How long has it been going on? Its quite bold to say that you have become incredibly proficient in that many technologies, Id say it would take years.

When I say proficient, I mean proficient in regards to how long I've been working with the the languages/technologies, I don't mean that in the sense that I have attained high wizard status. Didn't mean to be misleading if it came off that way. I started the in-class portion of my bootcamp at the end of June, but had been working on pre-course work and gone through the courses on code academy and read various books etc to build a foundation for the bootcamp since February. So it's not like going to a bootcamp raw dog with out prior studying will make someone proficient.

You're right it does take years to really become a wizard or what not, however the advantage that bootcamps give you is that you work with experienced developers that teach you the current industries' best practices which dramatically increase your ability to learn to code practically and productively. Another advantage of bootcamps (at least mine) is how immersive it is specifically how many hours you put in with instructors readily available to help you. A typical day for me is arriving at 0700 and working on projects until 0900 where we will have a couple hours of lecture on algorithms and data structures, and then spending the rest of the day (usually until 1800 or later for some people) working on projects/assignments, the whole time with instructors available or help.

Putting all this together allows you to learn faster, as compared to taking university courses which (at least at my university) are twice a week and help is only available during certain hours of the day.

Post: #270

(08-21-2015 06:05 PM)NinjaShaman Wrote:  A lot of this thread (which is amazing) has been geared towards part-time efforts by people who are already working a primary.

If someone were to put full-time effort into learning a coding skillset, how long would you estimate it to get to a beginner level proficiency and get hired for a job. The idea would be to continue to grow on that entry-level job.

I'd say 500 hours of pretty intense concentration building a portfolio that can be shown off on GitHub.

It would be less if you had a C.S. degree and were getting up to speed on an in-demand technology.

Since you have no degree or certs you better have a great portfolio, and be able to nail tech questions on an interview.

Your best best as a non-degree candidate is to join a local meetup dev group and make friends. Also pitch yourself to tech recruiting agencies. Even go as far as offering you will work for less for your first job than the average C.S. grad.

Once you have even just 1 single year of professional experience in an in-demand technology (Java, .NET, Python, Ruby on Rails, Node, C++/C, IoS/Android, Frontend (HTML/CSS/Javascript frameworks)) flood gates open for job opportunities.

Post: #271

Thanks for the response Travesty. The Odin Project suggested their program would take around 1000 hours to complete so I think the 500 to 1000 range seems appropriate depending on the person's aptitude for picking up the technologies.

Post: #272

(08-23-2015 01:29 AM)edmunddantes Wrote:  I'm also just starting out in learning web/software development with the intention to start a career (hopefully location independent) in this field; specializing in iOS, MEAN stack, Ruby on Rails.

Currently I'm attending a Coding Bootcamp in Seattle (http://www.codingdojo.com).

Considering the amount of time I've been at it, I've become incredibly proficient in the stacks and technologies taught thus far. So far in my program we've learned LAMP, MEAN, Node.js, Ruby on Rails, various algorithms and data structures with iOS left to be taught.
Cheers.

(08-23-2015 04:55 PM)NinjaShaman Wrote:  Thanks for the response Travesty. The Odin Project suggested their program would take around 1000 hours to complete so I think the 500 to 1000 range seems appropriate depending on the person's aptitude for picking up the technologies.

How in the world have you only spent around 6 months coding and yet you are ''incredibly proficient" in both Node, Ruby AND iOS?!?! I've been coding 5 hours a day for the past 6 months and I'm still on frontend stuff (HTML/JS/Bootstrap) which is relatively easier than Ruby & Node.js...

Judging by the extremely post count of the both of you, it really does sound like the two of you are simply advertising here on this thread.

Do you have any idea what the term "stack" even means???

Post: #273

Frenchcorporation, this thread is a great story. Well done.
From the insight you've gained, what sort of things would you say are going to be the next 'hottest' areas of computing or programming?

Post: #274

(08-24-2015 11:18 AM)Kaebs Wrote:  

(08-23-2015 01:29 AM)edmunddantes Wrote:  I'm also just starting out in learning web/software development with the intention to start a career (hopefully location independent) in this field; specializing in iOS, MEAN stack, Ruby on Rails.

Currently I'm attending a Coding Bootcamp in Seattle (http://www.codingdojo.com).

Considering the amount of time I've been at it, I've become incredibly proficient in the stacks and technologies taught thus far. So far in my program we've learned LAMP, MEAN, Node.js, Ruby on Rails, various algorithms and data structures with iOS left to be taught.
Cheers.

(08-23-2015 04:55 PM)NinjaShaman Wrote:  Thanks for the response Travesty. The Odin Project suggested their program would take around 1000 hours to complete so I think the 500 to 1000 range seems appropriate depending on the person's aptitude for picking up the technologies.

How in the world have you only spent around 6 months coding and yet you are ''incredibly proficient" in both Node, Ruby AND iOS?!?! I've been coding 5 hours a day for the past 6 months and I'm still on frontend stuff (HTML/JS/Bootstrap) which is relatively easier than Ruby & Node.js...

Judging by the extremely post count of the both of you, it really does sound like the two of you are simply advertising here on this thread.

Do you have any idea what the term "stack" even means???

Ah yes of course coding ability is directly correlated to the post count of a member on this forum, wait that just doesn't make sense.

And advertising...think of it this way, coding bootcamps are selective and have no need (at least in the US) to advertise because of the high level of interest. I think it's apparent that I'm not advertising, and if you think I am ban me.

To answer your question, I do know what a stack means, to explain simply its a bundle of technologies that you are using together to create a project. For instance in MEAN you're using Mongodb, Express, Angular and lastly Node.js and with that 'stack' javascript is what ties it all together, both front and backend.

I don't mean to be rude or anything but if you're coding for 5 hours a day and are only on javascript HTML5 CSS and using Bootstrap, and have not event begun to work with any MVC framework let alone feel ready to practice algorithms or data structures at all then, there is something you're not doing right, or your methodology to learning a language, framework etc is not optimal.

HTML and CSS can be mastered(at a productive level) in a matter or a couple weeks(if that). What I suggest to help you learn faster is pick random websites and recreate it perfectly, this doesn't mean functionally, but just aesthetically. Do this enough times and you'll be super comfortable super quick with both HTML and CSS. Bootstrap is super easy just follow the documentation and make sure that it is linked to your project, lol I don't know what else to say about bootstrap, but just use the documentation it's self explanatory. Then from there move on to a MVC framework like Codeignitor, its simple and a good place to start learning MVC (at least it was for me), you'll have to learn the syntax for PHP, but if you've been learning javascript you should pick it up in a matter of 2-3 days if you're really devoting 5 hours a day.

What I have found and my approach has been not focusing on every little detail, thats what the documentation is for. But figuring out the general idea of a frame work or whichever technology you're working with.

Anyways like I said before if anyone legitimate questions about bootcamps or my methodology/journey to learning web/software dev quickly I'll be happy to share.


EDIT: Forgot to mention you might want to learn JQuery (or at least be familiar with, if your working with front end stuff), the API's website's documentation is quite good but Jon Duckett has a good book that covers and explains a lot Javascript and JQuery, and its named "Javascript and Jquery"

Post: #275

^^I don't know man, front-end stuff can be pretty frustrating, too. I've had little issue with putting together a fully functional CRUD back end using php (user authentication, creating a profile, searching for similar profiles, and establishing a private messaging system) but I've been forever plagued with making shit show up the way I want to in the UI. For example, I've spent the better part of 2 days now trying to figure out how to make a "sticky footer" that is always at the bottom of the viewport regardless of the size of the content, zoom, or window resizing, to no avail. On the other hand, figuring out how to implement a PM system including the table structure took just 5 or so hours of an afternoon.