Post: #26

(07-09-2013 02:07 PM)Grit Wrote:  There is no such bullshit as "Well, Zimmerman is 60% guilty and Martin is 40% guilty, so zimmerman should get some jail time."

This is a second degree murder trial. Is he guilty of second degree murder? It was pretty obvious that this guy was not a foaming racist with a big ego and a history of gunning minorities down.

What scares me is that enough people are low intelligence enough to believe our judicial system could bear a successful second degree charge. If you cannot comprehend this about our legal system, you have serious misunderstanding of how the law works, or you are not very intelligent, or you are a socialist. Or all three.

This has nothing to do with minorities (or it shouldn't)


The question is really simple:

A) Did Zimmerman kill someone?
Obviously that answer is yes.
(that right there would have some serious repercussions)

B) Was it in self defense?
If following someone (while telling the police that you are in the process of following them, as the police tell you to STOP following them)
then questioning, and then shooting them is self defense, well I'd might as well fight people I don't like and do the same thing, and call it "self defense"

This really isn't rocket science people. People get locked away for LONG periods of time for killing someone in a street fight, or even physically harming them. . .they don't get to claim "self defense"

Post: #27

I think Zimmerman will walk. He might get a lesser charge, but really the prosecution hasn't proven anything. According to Zimmerman, Trevon went for his gun, so he had no choice but to shoot. The prosecution hasn't really been able to refute this.

Post: #28

(07-09-2013 02:15 PM)CJ_W Wrote:  

(07-09-2013 02:07 PM)Grit Wrote:  There is no such bullshit as "Well, Zimmerman is 60% guilty and Martin is 40% guilty, so zimmerman should get some jail time."

This is a second degree murder trial. Is he guilty of second degree murder? It was pretty obvious that this guy was not a foaming racist with a big ego and a history of gunning minorities down.

What scares me is that enough people are low intelligence enough to believe our judicial system could bear a successful second degree charge. If you cannot comprehend this about our legal system, you have serious misunderstanding of how the law works, or you are not very intelligent, or you are a socialist. Or all three.

This has nothing to do with minorities (or it shouldn't)


The question is really simple:

A) Did Zimmerman kill someone?
Obviously that answer is yes.
(that right there would have some serious repercussions)

B) Was it in self defense?
If following someone (while telling the police that you are in the process of following them, as the police tell you to STOP following them)
then questioning, and then shooting them is self defense, well I'd might as well fight people I don't like and do the same thing, and call it "self defense"

This really isn't rocket science people. People get locked away for LONG periods of time for killing someone in a street fight, or even physically harming them. . .they don't get to claim "self defense"

Following someone is not illegal. According to Zimmerman, Trevon started the fight. Once on the ground, Trevon went for the gun, so Zimmerman had no choice but to shoot.

Also, Zimmerman had a legal carry permit and Florida has a "stand your ground" law.

Post: #29

(07-09-2013 02:31 PM)The Texas Prophet Wrote:  Following someone is not illegal. According to Zimmerman, Trevon started the fight. Once on the ground, Trevon went for the gun, so Zimmerman had no choice but to shoot.

Also, Zimmerman had a legal carry permit and Florida has a "stand your ground" law.

lets take a step back for a minute. think about your life. all the things you do, your hobbies, your family, your friends, your work, etc. Maybe you like to do parkour, maybe you do weightlifting or play music, maybe you work 12 hours a day. Maybe you like to hang out with your friends and family every day. What about time for pussy? How much time in the day is there really, to live your life fully? Do you think you have enough time for the people and things you love? George Zimmerman thinks his time is best spent with a gun perstering people in a relatively safe area. Thats why cops and military hate these guys. They complicate the law. They exert authority where none exists. They brandish weapons and pretend to be an authority figure. Its a psychological problem more than anything, the Rent-A-Cop Syndrome.. Our country is free enough to let these nut jobs roam around, but when they mess up like this, each and every one should be prosecuted to the fullest extent.

Post: #30

(07-09-2013 02:44 PM)puckman Wrote:  

(07-09-2013 02:31 PM)The Texas Prophet Wrote:  Following someone is not illegal. According to Zimmerman, Trevon started the fight. Once on the ground, Trevon went for the gun, so Zimmerman had no choice but to shoot.

Also, Zimmerman had a legal carry permit and Florida has a "stand your ground" law.

lets take a step back for a minute. think about your life. all the things you do, your hobbies, your family, your friends, your work, etc. Maybe you like to do parkour, maybe you do weightlifting or play music, maybe you work 12 hours a day. Maybe you like to hang out with your friends and family every day. What about time for pussy? How much time in the day is there really, to live your life fully? Do you think you have enough time for the people and things you love? George Zimmerman thinks his time is best spent with a gun perstering people in a relatively safe area. Thats why cops and military hate these guys. They complicate the law. They exert authority where none exists. They brandish weapons and pretend to be an authority figure. Its a psychological problem more than anything, the Rent-A-Cop Syndrome.. Our country is free enough to let these nut jobs roam around, but when they mess up like this, each and every one should be prosecuted to the fullest extent.

Then move to Florida and get the laws changed there because nothing Zimmerman did was illegal. Nothing.

Post: #31

Florida counties create Zimmerman verdict response plan:

http://dailycaller.com/2013/07/09/florid...onse-plan/

Post: #32

An armed society is a polite society.

Post: #33

(07-09-2013 02:52 PM)Norset Wrote:  An armed society is a polite society.

not when you intimidate unarmed people.

Post: #34

I also think it's unfortunate that this case has been so racialized. While racial profiling did play a role here(I'm sure if it was a blonde white guy walking down the street this wouldn't have happened), ultimately I don't think Zimmerman shot Martin because he was black.

What this case comes down to is whether it's justified to use deadly force against someone in a one-on-one fist fight that you are losing. Especially when you had a major hand in provoking the incident. If he walks this will be tragic.

All he'd have needed to do was shoot him the leg, or even brandish the weapon and that would've ended the fight. But shooting him in the heart? He wanted Martin dead.

Post: #35

I predict this thread coming to a mutual agreement.

EDIT: Not directed at you speakeasy - posted at the same time. lol

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #36

(07-09-2013 02:31 PM)The Texas Prophet Wrote:  

(07-09-2013 02:15 PM)CJ_W Wrote:  

(07-09-2013 02:07 PM)Grit Wrote:  Snip

Snip

Snip

I think we are on the same page but I want to hammer home the point so easily misunderstood:

Quote: Did Zimmerman kill someone?

This is not a trial whether to prove Zimmerman did or didn't' kill someone.

Quote: Did Zimmerman shoot Martin in self defense?

This is not a trial to prove whether Zimmerman shot in self defense.

This is a trial for the prosecution to prove that Zimmerman committed second degree murder

Post: #37

(07-09-2013 02:54 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  I also think it's unfortunate that this case has been so racialized. While racial profiling did play a role here(I'm sure if it was a blonde white guy walking down the street this wouldn't have happened), ultimately I don't think Zimmerman shot Martin because he was black.

What this case comes down to is whether it's justified to use deadly force against someone in a one-on-one fist fight that you are losing. Especially when you had a major hand in provoking the incident. If he walks this will be tragic.

All he'd have needed to do was shoot him the leg, or even brandish the weapon and that would've ended the fight. But shooting him in the heart? He wanted Martin dead.

He didn't shoot him because he's black but he profiled him as suspicious because he was black.

Post: #38

(07-09-2013 02:54 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  All he'd have needed to do was shoot him the leg, or even brandish the weapon and that would've ended the fight. But shooting him in the heart? He wanted Martin dead.

About that though - I don't know what they teach in actual classes but if you read books on defending yourself with a gun, the common consensus is to shoot at the midsection, chest and stomach area, where the larger mass of a person is. Going for an arm or leg in a self-defense situation (assuming he was in one, which I'm not here to plead a case for) is a very bad move that likely will lead to a miss, at which point you become vulnerable to losing the gun to your attacker. A now enraged and frightened attacker.

I highly doubt he purposely got the guy in the heart, to be honest. He'd have to be pretty experienced in combat situations to hit such a target in the heat of a fight even if he wanted to. Even up close.

But I digress.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #39

(07-09-2013 03:01 PM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  if you read books on defending yourself with a gun

can you tell me more about what you've read??

Post: #40

Just a bad situation all around. There will be a legal outcome which will please one side maybe or one that makes neither side happy (Zimmerman goes to jail but not enough time to make Martin's supporters happy).

It took two parties to tango.

I cannot begin to understand the frustrations that certain groups in America feel because of their race. And clearly, it seems some racial element was present when the retard decided to get out of the car and follow him. But it does seem like Martin was beating on Zimmerman. I originally, totally supported Martin, when the news first came out. But it seems Zimmerman began walking away when he was attacked. Yes, he is a total moron for trying to pretend like he was a cop and FL is stupid with the defend your ground laws. When I mean originally supported, I mean it seemed like clearly some dumb guy shot a minority because he was a racist. Now it does seem like, Martin added fuel to the fire. Unfortunately, stupidity is not a crime (both of them seemed pretty dumb). But one did pay with his life.

Just wish they both never bumped into each other. Very concerned about what will happen after the trial.

On a side note, the Supreme court fucking with the Voting Rights Act isn't gonna help this country either.

Post: #41

(07-09-2013 03:05 PM)puckman Wrote:  

(07-09-2013 03:01 PM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  if you read books on defending yourself with a gun

can you tell me more about what you've read??

Don't be a tool. I had a gun in my home (when living stateside) so I took it upon myself to read books on the philosophies, legalities, and practicalities of defending yourself with a gun, which most gun owners never bother to do. Which is retarded considering most people can't fathom what it really means to be prepared. If you want to imply that means I can't have picked up any actual knowledge, you're out of your mind.

I only used the disclaimer in case there are people who've been formally trained in gun defense here (as opposed to just learning to shoot), and since I didn't know the precise terminology. I imagine they will back me up that shooting for a leg in such a scenario is a foolish move that borders on suicidal.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #42

I mentioned this on the thread where the dog got shot. Law enforcement is trained that if they have to discharge their weapon, you aim for center mass - the largest target area of the body, and in doing so, your intention is to kill, whether death actually results. You don't shoot to wound, and you don't fire warning shots in the air. That's only in movies and tv. At very close range however, it's highly possible to shoot someone intentionally in the heart.

Post: #43

been following the case relatively closely.

Based on the facts of the case, there is absolutely no way that Zimmerman should be convicted of 2nd degree murder. The onus is on the defense to prove that he acted with "ill will, hatred, or spite" in killing Martin, a requirement for an M2 conviction.

They haven't come close to proving this. If Zimmerman is convicted, it'll make a mockery of the judicial system.

His defense team has done a great job and deserves to win the case.

Post: #44

(07-09-2013 01:24 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  Might go check out some riots in Sanford. Is there any way to get the most bang for my buck here? Where will the riots be the best?

Hey, Mech, are you prepared in case shit gets real?

Go out and buy some extra shotgun shells for that trusty shotgun of yours just in case.

Post: #45

This entire case is bogus and offensive from a white male's perspective.

Why the fuck is the first thing I heard about this case was that some innocent young black kid got killed by a "white" guy simply for wearing a hoodie, other than tremendously fucked up liberal, left-wing garbage media?

Post: #46

(07-09-2013 04:11 PM)LoveBug Wrote:  This entire case is bogus and offensive from a white male's perspective.

Post: #47

Ugh. Just go to the statute. Florida Criminal Code 782.04(2):

Quote:(2) The unlawful killing of a human being, when perpetrated by any act imminently dangerous to another and evincing a depraved mind regardless of human life, although without any premeditated design to effect the death of any particular individual, is murder in the second degree and constitutes a felony of the first degree, punishable by imprisonment for a term of years not exceeding life or as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

(emphasis added)

The bold element is what the prosecution must prove beyond a reasonable doubt. The defense doesn't have to prove anything at all.

The jury will have the option to charge with manslaughter as a lesser included offense.

Here is a legal analysis: http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/06/get...aved-mind/

Post: #48

(07-09-2013 04:11 PM)LoveBug Wrote:  This entire case is bogus and offensive from a white male's perspective.

Post: #49

Quote:Hey, Mech, are you prepared in case shit gets real?

Lets say he gets off and there's some riots. Who is going to be targeted?

WTF is Zimmerman? Jew-rican? Where do you go with that? You can't really take it out on the whites in Sanford they're just a bunch of dumb rednecks.

Post: #50

I only profile by race, when I need to buy drugs off the street