Post: #301

(05-30-2014 03:31 PM)kdolo Wrote:  hormones

Good call.

Some calories have hormones.

Some calories do not.

Another example of how not all calories are the same.

(05-30-2014 02:41 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  Gio, you seem to be hesitant to putting your own beliefs to test.

No, I do put my own beliefs to test.

I have been testing them for 25 years.

Mostly, on myself. This might explain why we have a different perspective..

My perspective is based on my personal experience and the experience of my close friends and family.

I've learned that processed sugar has a much different effect on my body as compared to vegetable sugar.

Apparently, its different for other people

Genetics do play a role.

(05-30-2014 03:59 PM)SteveCR Wrote:  You're going to believe what you're going to believe.

It's okay if we have a different perspective.

Maybe, we just have different metabolisms and our bodies process things differently.

Processed sugar is bad for my belly.

If you can eat large amounts of processed sugar/hormones/additives/preservatives and still keep your 6-pack, more power to you.

You have better genetics than me.

*****

I agree with you guys here..

(05-30-2014 03:59 PM)SteveCR Wrote:  Coke doesn't have any protein.

Another great example of how not all calories are the same.

Some calories have protein

Some don't.

If all your calories came from coke, your body composition would be much different.

"Quality" of calories matter.

(05-30-2014 02:41 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  the types of food you eat is important.

Yes, "quality" matters.

(05-30-2014 06:45 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  Of course eating more protein and fats count.

Yes,

Everything counts!

Quantity of calories, quality of calories, timing of calories.

(05-30-2014 06:45 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  That is why I think eating patterns help as well as the types of food.

Yes.

Some calories will make us hungry

Some will not.

---

Preservatives, hormones, artificial coloring, artificial sweeteners, by products, etc.

All these things can effect the "quality" of a calorie.

Post: #302

(05-30-2014 06:45 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  Of course eating more protein and fats count, man.

You said it yourself, it filled you up for longer periods compared to the processed poisons they call foods. That is cutting your calories and if you tracked you would probably have seen it.

I don't blame you on not wanting to track everything. I don't either.

It isn't a great way to live always worrying about how many calories you're eating. After some time you know how much you can eat without having to track.

That is why I think eating patterns help as well as the types of food. Some people tend to snack more at night so not eating after 6 or 8 would be a good thing for them.

That still equates to eating less.

Some people enjoy that full feeling which is why many love eating all of their calories during a time period and not eating the rest of the day.

There is still a set amount of calories to be eaten.

We may be talking a little bit passed each other, here.

We don't completely disagree; however, we do NOT completely agree either.

You may be correct that there is some calorie restriction that is taking place b/c of the appetite suppression that comes from eating nutrient dense foods; however, I still do NOT agree that framing what is occurring in terms of calories captures the reason why I lost weight when I cut out sugars and processed foods while adding fats and proteins to my diet.

You are correct in your suggestion that I have NOT been specifically measuring the quantity of food that i eat; however, I really doubt that the quantity is changing very much.

I do NOT really want to belabor this point b/c some guys want to frame these matters in terms of calories (which I personally believe misses the point and misleads concerning what to do), and other guys, including me, think that it is more important to frame these kinds of matters in terms of describing some kinds of foods as good for us and others bad for us. Even the good foods have some controversy, including meats, eggs, fish, and green vegetables, coconuts and avocados, and some nuts.

Certainly, we want to achieve to eat the good foods; however, the bad foods could probably be divided into a couple of categories, depending upon how bad they are. For example, some artificial foods, such as transfats and sugar and wheat and soy and corn, should be minimized or avoided completely, in my opinion (unless you are eating them in some kind of little processed state or fermented).

Other foods that are bad, in my opinion, may still be o.k. in small doses ( afe times a week) b/c they have some nutrient value. There is some debate about categorizing these foods (whether they are fruits or nuts or some grain, rice, or tuber products (potatoes and carots), and juices). I try NOT to be dogmatic about these b/c I understand that people have had various experiences with various food products and including them in their diets. And, in recent times, I have evolved into accepting a larger percentage of these products into my diet, especially with increased considerations to maintain and develop good gut flora (natural pre-biotics and pro-biotics).

(05-30-2014 06:45 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  Moma snacking on handfuls of chips and nuts during the day/night can blow up that calorie count without him realizing.

Personally, I think that Moma believes that he is getting some kind of nutrients from the chips, and likely he is getting little to no nutrients from them. Nonetheless, if his diet is otherwise good, then the chips would probably NOT be a problem. Personally, I think Moma needs more fish and red meat in his diet and more animal fat (besides chicken), but I have kind of given up on Moma (I say this with no hard feelings) - yet he seems to be finding some combination of changes that he believes is working for him.. .. but I really doubt that it should be necessary to bust our asses with new exercise in order to achieve a comfortable balance - unless, he may be thinking that a six pack is the sign of a healthy abdomen, and I do NOT believe that it is necessary for a guy in his 40s or older to have a six pack in order to be happy with NOT having a belly.

(05-30-2014 06:45 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  The problem with this discussion is it got blew up with all of the bad calories versus good calories.

I eat the way I eat because I feel food. I am healthier and I suspect if you reread what Steve said you will see he even agrees that the type of food for overall health is important.

Steve is spewing a lot of superficial non-sense and suggesting that his view of the better diet is backed by good authority while suggesting that other views are NOT. Even if I may agree with a few points that he makes, he seems to be overall attempting to derail the dialogue by being dogmatic and by pooping the ideas of other guys... while offering little to no value.

(05-30-2014 06:45 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  I don't cut out carbs, I drink milk everyday and enjoy ice cream once in awhile but I do try and get my protein in and my vegetables while also making sure I don't overeat.

If I am going to eat pizza or something with a lot of calories I make sure I don't eat anything else the rest of the day besides some protein shakes.

I find NO real problem with your description here, regarding what you are doing. I don't think anybody in this thread suggested completely cutting out carbs. However, I think that several of us have suggested that carbs are problematic, especially in high doses. You seem to be moderating your carbs and balancing them out, and if that is working for you, then there is NOTHING wrong with that approach... and NOTHING wrong with advocating for that approach for others.

(05-30-2014 06:45 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  With all that said, that still doesn't mean I can pig out on 3k calories of good, clean food and expect to lose fat. That is what I see as the real disagreement is in this thread.

I think that you can pig out on good clean food, as long as you do NOT count certain carbs (or processed carbs) as being within the "good clean" food category. You can pig out on some kinds of carbs in their natural form, for example greens vegetables, and you can pig out on meat, too, as long as you are eating a lot of fat with the meat that will help your body to absorb the nutrients from the meat. Meat also converts to glucose if meat is ingested without any fat, so we have to be careful about overdoing on lean cuts of meat.

Post: #303

(05-30-2014 11:38 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  

(05-30-2014 08:16 AM)w00t Wrote:  -snip-

Merely b/c you found a buff guy that is spewing this same thermodynamics baloney does NOT mean that he is correct. A large majority of the guys participating realize that there is a difference between the kinds of calories that we eat. There are some devil in the details b/c we do NOT have agreement regarding some of the specifics - however, a vast majority of guys here are in agreement that eating whole and natural foods is better than eating processed foods and foods with added sugars and added artificial ingredients.

Maybe we can agree to disagree on some of the rest? Certainly, I am of the current thinking that a certain amount of carbs is o.k. in the order to feed our gut flora (serving as probiotics and prebiotics). There is a difference between empty calorie foods like sodas and vegetable juices. They are NOT the same. We can also tolerate a small amount of pure junk without keeling over. Some guys can tolerate more than other guys, and likely if we are in better shape, overall, then we can tolerate more junk for short periods of time.

I really wonder if you read the text I posted at all (especially the part about Health vs. Weight Management) or if you just chose to misinterpret it. I have no interest in this discussion and just wanted to provide some good info because theres a mess of disionformation on nutrition out there.

The guy is Tom Venuto, hes a fitness expert and all what he says is backed up by scientific studies unlike a lot of broscience in this thread here. His method of weightloss is what fitness models use to get shredded for magazine covers. The information is out there its up to each individual what you do with it. Have a nice day gentlemen

Post: #304

(05-31-2014 02:18 AM)w00t Wrote:  I really wonder if you read the text I posted at all (especially the part about Health vs. Weight Management) or if you just chose to misinterpret it. I have no interest in this discussion and just wanted to provide some good info because theres a mess of disionformation on nutrition out there.

The guy is Tom Venuto, hes a fitness expert and all what he says is backed up by scientific studies unlike a lot of broscience in this thread here. His method of weightloss is what fitness models use to get shredded for magazine covers. The information is out there its up to each individual what you do with it. Have a nice day gentlemen

All fitness models (guys that make a full time living off it) are on multiple steroids and other substances. The exceptions to that is those fitness models in Somalia.

Have a nice day, gentlemen.

Post: #305

There are also countless case studies of normal guys using that approach successfully....

Post: #306

(05-31-2014 02:18 AM)w00t Wrote:  

(05-30-2014 11:38 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  

(05-30-2014 08:16 AM)w00t Wrote:  -snip-

Merely b/c you found a buff guy that is spewing this same thermodynamics baloney does NOT mean that he is correct. A large majority of the guys participating realize that there is a difference between the kinds of calories that we eat. There are some devil in the details b/c we do NOT have agreement regarding some of the specifics - however, a vast majority of guys here are in agreement that eating whole and natural foods is better than eating processed foods and foods with added sugars and added artificial ingredients.

Maybe we can agree to disagree on some of the rest? Certainly, I am of the current thinking that a certain amount of carbs is o.k. in the order to feed our gut flora (serving as probiotics and prebiotics). There is a difference between empty calorie foods like sodas and vegetable juices. They are NOT the same. We can also tolerate a small amount of pure junk without keeling over. Some guys can tolerate more than other guys, and likely if we are in better shape, overall, then we can tolerate more junk for short periods of time.

I really wonder if you read the text I posted at all (especially the part about Health vs. Weight Management) or if you just chose to misinterpret it. I have no interest in this discussion and just wanted to provide some good info because theres a mess of disionformation on nutrition out there.

The guy is Tom Venuto, hes a fitness expert and all what he says is backed up by scientific studies unlike a lot of broscience in this thread here. His method of weightloss is what fitness models use to get shredded for magazine covers. The information is out there its up to each individual what you do with it. Have a nice day gentlemen

I stand by my earlier comment, and it seems to me that I am NOT misrepresenting Venuto. He largely emphasizes the thermodynamics framework and the eat less, exercise more framework.

Surely, he gives some lip service to the benefits of carb reduction while continuing to emphasize his paradigms.

I am NOT sure whether it is worthwhile to discuss in detail any of his ideas in order to prove that i read the article, and yes when we delve into some of the details of various macro or micro nutrients and absorption, we may agree upon several of the details. However, Venuto frames these matters in the same way that SteveCR and a few other guys here, but suggesting the matter is simple and saying that opponents are silly and other degrading comments to suggest that opponents are following fads and NOT thinking about their dietary approaches b/c they are just selling books, etc..

I believe that a lot of guys reading this thread will be willing to accept a variety of approaches, and some guys are more sympathetic to theories about calories and even accepting of various high levels of carbs in their diet and even low fat.

Ultimately, i am more open to some of these kinds of ideas, when they presented in less dogmatic ways, b/c suggesting that the law of physics and thermodynamics applies to humans, is NOT uncontroversial, even though quite a few people gobble that up. Getting people to accept the laws of thermodynamics as applicable to their diet and their exercise routine seems really misleading to me, but it sells drugs and it sells bad food, too... and it sells gym memberships, amongst other similar things that play into that paradigm.

Post: #307

(05-31-2014 03:28 AM)roid Wrote:  

(05-31-2014 02:18 AM)w00t Wrote:  I really wonder if you read the text I posted at all (especially the part about Health vs. Weight Management) or if you just chose to misinterpret it. I have no interest in this discussion and just wanted to provide some good info because theres a mess of disionformation on nutrition out there.

The guy is Tom Venuto, hes a fitness expert and all what he says is backed up by scientific studies unlike a lot of broscience in this thread here. His method of weightloss is what fitness models use to get shredded for magazine covers. The information is out there its up to each individual what you do with it. Have a nice day gentlemen

All fitness models (guys that make a full time living off it) are on multiple steroids and other substances. The exceptions to that is those fitness models in Somalia.

Have a nice day, gentlemen.

I have never used steroids or testosterone; however, I am NOT necessarily against the idea, and I am going to begin to look into these kinds of matter for when I am in my 50s and 60s. There are questions of declining libido and declining muscle mass and recovery times from exercise and even sex.

I get a lot more sore these days from exercise than I did when I was in my 20s, and I can still perform fairly well sexually, but NOT like when I was in my 20s, that's for sure, or at least it seems that my recovery times are longer in various respects, so if there are ways to build muscle while older without damaging the body's natural production of testosterone, then I may be willing to try some of those matters..

They are probably good at keeping up good muscle mass and also keeping down body fat. At least, I gather that from what little i have read on the topics.

I remain a little worried about using myself as a Guinea pig, so in my thinking it is good to read various sources, including some RVF threads that I have seen on some of these topics before venturing too heavily in this direction.

Post: #308

I am doing project abs but I had a minor setback. Things were quite good today I did not even had hunger although I did not eat something except protein shakes and few nuts. In the evening this hot chick with whom I am doing some sports was little bit disgusted because my face was too slim or something. Men this abs shit is quite difficult.

Post: #309

This thread would have been better along the lines of "What techniques have you used to trim fat while retaining muscle?"

In that vein, here are some:

1. Carb cycling - eat almost all of your carbs on workout days, and none on rest days.
2. Intermittent fasting - only eat within an 8 hour window every day, eg noon to 8 PM.
3. Don't eat wheat.
4. Don't drink milk, yogurt, fresh non-raw, non-pastured cheeses, aged cheeses (from most problematic foods to least). I still eat cheese.
5. Eat fermented vegetables to replenish your healthy gut flora.
6. Eat lots of coconut oil.
7. Sit less.

There's no point in going through the effort of convincing people that these "work" or don't. Try them out, none of them are that hard.

I'm nowhere near having a six pack, but I feel these guidelines above (except fasting - I haven't been doing that strictly of late) are helpful. I'm also trying to gain muscle primarily, which will make slimming hard. I have gotten stronger and more cut since cutting out some dairy I was eating.

Post: #310

I'm using this thread as a sort of online diary to mark my progress. I have been reading all the posts keenly with specific attention to giovonny has we have similar likes (both like bball).
Yesterday wasn't a good day in my opinion. Ate my usual blend of apples, cinnamon powder and ginger and then I had fresh fish caught from the lake in Winter Gardens with brown rice and red stew for lunch.

In the evening my neighbour invited me to go and watch the NBA game (Spurs vs OKC) at wingstops.

We ordered 40 wings (there were three of us). I ordered the atomic flavour which had habanero pepper sauce (burning) and I drank dr pepper and fanta.

My new course of action is to restore my lean muscle mass and allow it to burn up these bogus calories I am getting here. I need to start playing a bit more bball which should add to cardio.

I've gone to the gym twice last week with a new lizard who is also on track to tone up.

My body has been very sore but that will be my strategy to lean up. I worked the abs using the ab machine and will do some kbell exercises.

Will keep you posted. Didn't wake up today with the usual ab glimmer as the past week.

Post: #311

(05-30-2014 06:17 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  O.k. Goodbye. Maybe see you later. Just one point before you go. You have NOT really said anything. You made some dogmatic comments about eat less and exercise more, and you got into the weeds a little bit regarding some distracting examples, but in the end, you were NOT really saying anything revealing or anything much beyond those two general points, which have both been debunked throughout earlier parts of this thread and Gary taubes does a great job of debunking both of those points with lots of science, to the extent you may be interested in science.

Well since you brought up Gary Taubes...

"If we get bigger, if we get fatter, if we get heavier we have to take in more calories. There's absolutely no doubt about it. And if we want to get lighter we have to expend more calories than we consume. Absolutely no doubt about it."
Gary Taubes, 2010 interview with Andreas Eenfeldt, "Gary Taubes about why we get fat".

"Because if someone is getting fatter, then they are taking in more calories than they expend. Ok? This is a given. This is what we know for sure. Ok? We have the energy balance equation, the first law of thermodynamics. It's always true. Ok? It's always true. It's a law of physics, it's why we call it a law."
Gary Taubes, "Calories Vs. Carbohydrates: Clearing up the Confusion over Competing Paradigms of Obesity" Ancestral Health Symposium 2012 (at 2:20).

Post: #312

(06-01-2014 12:21 PM)SteveCR Wrote:  

(05-30-2014 06:17 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  O.k. Goodbye. Maybe see you later. Just one point before you go. You have NOT really said anything. You made some dogmatic comments about eat less and exercise more, and you got into the weeds a little bit regarding some distracting examples, but in the end, you were NOT really saying anything revealing or anything much beyond those two general points, which have both been debunked throughout earlier parts of this thread and Gary taubes does a great job of debunking both of those points with lots of science, to the extent you may be interested in science.

Well since you brought up Gary Taubes...

"If we get bigger, if we get fatter, if we get heavier we have to take in more calories. There's absolutely no doubt about it. And if we want to get lighter we have to expend more calories than we consume. Absolutely no doubt about it."
Gary Taubes, 2010 interview with Andreas Eenfeldt, "Gary Taubes about why we get fat".

"Because if someone is getting fatter, then they are taking in more calories than they expend. Ok? This is a given. This is what we know for sure. Ok? We have the energy balance equation, the first law of thermodynamics. It's always true. Ok? It's always true. It's a law of physics, it's why we call it a law."
Gary Taubes, "Calories Vs. Carbohydrates: Clearing up the Confusion over Competing Paradigms of Obesity" Ancestral Health Symposium 2012 (at 2:20).

The two books (good calories and bad calories) (why we get fat and what to do about it) that I cited earlier spend considerable time and energies debunking those two myths regarding eating less and exercising more.

The points remain about the goal.. and if the goal is strictly to lose fat, then there is a lot of dogma around the proscribed myths as being the solution to losing fat. I doubt that Taubes changed his mind and reversed himself regarding the overall points that he was making in his books regarding how much disinformation is out there regarding these dietary and exercise questions.

But if he did qualify his points in some kind of context, he have been talking about something else, then I would like to see some kind of link - unless he misspoke or maybe your rendition of his clarification is out of context regarding the question presented.

Do you have a link these supposed quotes?

By the way, I do NOT idolize any particular person or school of thought, but I generally was pointing out resources for people who want to educate themselves about the lengths to which mainstream propaganda will go to mislead, and those ideas come out very well in both of Taubes' books.

Post: #313

This will go on and on. SteveCR doesn't even believe in calorie is a calorie..he's just trolling. His daily meals consists of clean foods which Gio has highlighted earlier..he just doesn't want any other chatters to share in his six pack glory

Post: #314

(06-01-2014 01:02 PM)Moma Wrote:  This will go on and on. SteveCR doesn't even believe in calorie is a calorie..he's just trolling. His daily meals consists of clean foods which Gio has highlighted earlier..he just doesn't want any other chatters to share in his six pack glory

You are giving SteveCR too much credit for supposed clean diet.

But, I agree that he is trolling us b/c a central purpose seems to be to distract us from engaging in a meaningful exchange of ideas.

Post: #315

Not trolling. But let me ask you guys a question. Be as simplistic as you can be with your answer.

Would you agree or disagree that we get fat from eating too much food?

I eat a whole foods diet for health - I feel amazing on it. I healed my body on it. But yet again, check the title of this thread.

Post: #316

There's a theory out there called the body fat setpoint. It basically states that fat people are fat because they're fat and have always been fat, and skinny people are skinny because they're skinny and have always been skinny. The human body is resistant to change and will attempt to defend from changes in either direction.

So say you're a big fat bastard and decide to lose weight. You go from 55% body fat down to 8%. BFSP asserts that once you approach a certain leanness and stay there for about eighteen months, that becomes your new body fat set point. It's pretty cool and validates a lot of suppositions that people generally have about lean and fat people.

Post: #317

(05-31-2014 01:15 PM)Bill Wrote:  this abs shit is quite difficult.

Abs can be tricky. Genetics are big.

If your face is getting skinny then you obviously might want to add more protein and/or more calories.

Of course, be careful to add clean, high quality, calories and protein. "Low Quality" foods/calories often lead to belly fat.

Some ideas to think about are:

- Have a low fat protein shake before bed. (water/protein powder)
- Have a protein shake or handful of nuts when you wake up early in the morning to go pee.
- Eat fattier meats at lunch and leaner meats at dinner.
- Eat more protein/calories throughout the day and less at night.

I have seen guys add muscle, get a 6 pack, and keep their face looking normal.. So, I know its possible.

Keep tweaking your diet and working out hard.

(05-31-2014 02:02 PM)Basil Ransom Wrote:  This thread would have been better along the lines of "What techniques have you used to trim fat while retaining muscle?"

That is a great idea!

(05-31-2014 02:02 PM)Basil Ransom Wrote:  1. Carb cycling - eat almost all of your carbs on workout days, and none on rest days.

Great suggestions.

I'm going to experiment with this.

(05-31-2014 02:02 PM)Basil Ransom Wrote:  I'm also trying to gain muscle primarily, which will make slimming hard.

That can be tricky..

Adding muscle while also lowering body fat.

There are various schools of thought on this..

My personal feeling is that "Quality "of calories controls body fat while "Quantity" controls muscle mass, generally speaking.

(05-31-2014 02:02 PM)Basil Ransom Wrote:  I have gotten stronger and more cut since cutting out some dairy I was eating.

Isn't funny how some foods seem to "stick to" the body while others don't?!?

Dairy is not great for my abs but for some people its probably okay..

Like you said.. Personal experimentation is necessary to discover whats best for our bodies.

(06-01-2014 10:37 AM)Moma Wrote:  I need to start playing a bit more bball which should add to cardio.

Yes, especially now during the playoffs!

And, go easy on the wings!

That said, Steve Nash says that he eats really good 90% of the time and eats bad about 10% of the time so we do have to be realistic.

(06-01-2014 04:37 PM)SteveCR Wrote:  Would you agree or disagree that we get fat from eating too much food?

I agree.

I also have a question for you..

Do you agree or disagree that some calories contain artificial colors, flavors, and preservatives while some calories do not?

For example: Organic strawberries vs. strawberry flavored soda

Post: #318

(06-02-2014 03:41 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  ...Adding muscle while also lowering body fat.

There are various schools of thought on this..

My personal feeling is that "Quality "of calories controls body fat while "Quantity" controls muscle mass, generally speaking.

(05-31-2014 02:02 PM)Basil Ransom Wrote:  I have gotten stronger and more cut since cutting out some dairy I was eating.

Isn't funny how some foods seem to "stick to" the body while others don't?!?

Dairy is not great for my abs but for some people its probably okay..

Like you said.. Personal experimentation is necessary to discover whats best for our bodies.

My sentiments exactly. I don't know what's so fucking difficult about this to understand. Eat natural. A calorie is indeed a calorie, but that's a unit of measurement. You'll put on shitloads more fat if you have the insulin response from a high carb + fat (standard American) diet.

Diet is not just counting calories. In simplistic terms we get fat from eating too much food, but this effect is fivefold if you're eating a crappy SAD.


90% good to 10% bad is an excellent rule- keeps oneself sane.

Cheese has also had to go for the sake of my abs :-(

Post: #319

(06-01-2014 05:09 PM)Hades Wrote:  There's a theory out there called the body fat setpoint. It basically states that fat people are fat because they're fat and have always been fat, and skinny people are skinny because they're skinny and have always been skinny. The human body is resistant to change and will attempt to defend from changes in either direction.

So say you're a big fat bastard and decide to lose weight. You go from 55% body fat down to 8%. BFSP asserts that once you approach a certain leanness and stay there for about eighteen months, that becomes your new body fat set point. It's pretty cool and validates a lot of suppositions that people generally have about lean and fat people.

I could be wrong, but my understanding is that once fat cells are created, your body tries to keep them full. So you have to keep yourself to a strict diet until these cells die off and are not replenished. Which could be the 18 month thing?

Post: #320

(06-01-2014 05:09 PM)Hades Wrote:  There's a theory out there called the body fat setpoint. It basically states that fat people are fat because they're fat and have always been fat, and skinny people are skinny because they're skinny and have always been skinny. The human body is resistant to change and will attempt to defend from changes in either direction.

So say you're a big fat bastard and decide to lose weight. You go from 55% body fat down to 8%. BFSP asserts that once you approach a certain leanness and stay there for about eighteen months, that becomes your new body fat set point. It's pretty cool and validates a lot of suppositions that people generally have about lean and fat people.

I personally believe in this idea. I have been low (less than 10 or 11%) body fat since I was about 13 or 14 and decided to try to get a six pack. My body fat is like the middle guy in this picture:
   
Ive had a six pack for like the last 4 years, and even when I eat too much, or eat a little worse than I'd ideally like to (although of course if you are too unhealthy it will go away) I've had it and what mainly changes is the consistency and quantity of my shit.
Interestingly, when I first started trying to get a six pack, i was in the same boat as a lot of the guys on this thread- only a little bit of belly fat away. All that I did is completely stop eating all sugary foods like ice cream and cake (if you cut it out 100% you stop craving it, which is easier than looking forward to a cheat meal), started only drinking clear spirits instead of beer, cider etc… Also, I stopped having fast food more than once a month and stopped having much bread. I don't think I ate any less, or even exercised more. If you just push through and get lean, it will be easy to maintain it because your body composition and habits change.

Post: #321

I dropped 78lbs at one point. Here's what helped me and later when I put a few lbs back on, did the same and it came off. Following this, it's easy to stay lean.

Cut out all process food. Seriously, there's no need for it, plan ahead.

Haven't had any type of fast food aside from burritos in over 3 years.

Cut out all soda and juice as it's mostly crap. It's empty carbs, empty calories. Diet soda is just as bad as regular due to aspartame.

Cut out milk.

Cut out gluten, which is where I also saw a noticeable difference. We're all gluten intolerant, some more than others but cutting it out keeps your stomach flatter and less bloated as gluten by nature is very tough to digest and it causes inflammation, both in the gut and elsewhere.

I only eat grassfed or organic meat. Huge difference without all the hormones.

I only eat organic fruit and veggies, and have them every single day.

I don't have any processed or unnatural carbs. The carbs I do eat are fruit, veggies, and the trace amounts you see in things like peanut butter, nuts, cheese, etc..

Lifting is a huge part too. Do legs. Ever notice after a tough leg workout you feel like you're going to puke? It's partly because it takes more effort and has a higher metabolic demand. Doing legs jacks up your metabolism. I do some form of legs during every workout, adding squats, split squats, lunges, things like that into my workout.

Also, cut back on any steady state cardio, like jogging for 30 mins. You want uneven cardio which jacks up your heart rate, then you slow down and recover, then jack it back up, or do cardio with is more anaerobic than aerobic. Hiking, running hills, incline on the treadmill, spin classes, stairmaster, are all good options. They jack up your heart rate and build muscle at the same time.

This comparison always helps. Do you want the body of a sprinter or that of a marathoner? It's obviously a sprinter. Sprinters have their bodies because their workouts are intervals, anaerobic, rather than steady state workouts like marathoners which breaks down muscle and burns less fat.

Where people usually kill themselves with their diet is by wasting calories on anything other than water, unless you're out drinking, or by adding processed carbs to their meals. You don't need bread. You don't need pasta. You don't need potatoes. Organic or grassfed meat with veggies is the staple of any healthy diet. If you snack at night, no carbs. Peanut butter is great. Nuts are great. Cheese is great. Have a protein shake. Eat fruit earlier in the day. Eggs for breakfast. Turkey sausage.

Also picked up the habit of eating shopska. Anyone who's spent time in EE knows what shopska is. Tomatoes, peppers, cucumber, I add avocado, put feta on top, drizzle olive oil, and I have that probably 4-5 nights a week along with steak, chicken, pork, salmon, some kind of healthy meat.

Also, take a probiotic. Definitely helps.

Stay away from any sweets, candy, chips, any of that crap. After about 30 days you won't crave it anymore. Your tastes change. Eliminate the crap from your diet and you'll wonder wh you ever ate it in the first place. Years ago I tried fastfood after not eating it for 15 months and I got violently ill. Put crap in your body, your body wants more of it. It adapts. Eliminate it and you're body can't handle reintroducing it back to your diet.

Post: #322

^ This guy gets it!

Which pro-biotic would you recommend, and how would you describe the benefits of that in particular (leaving aside the benefits of the clean diet)?

Right on point about your tastes changing. I've just been though a two week period of slipping back into snacking every other day on something I shouldn't- beer, chocolate etc. Too many parties and too much alcohol. Back on track now, and I genuinely couldn't face a McDonalds.

Post: #323

Regarding the don't eat carbs after 6pm..that only makes sense if you go to sleep when normal people go to sleep, true? If you retire around midnight or 1am..you can surely push the barrier a bit further.

No carbs after 8 assumes you will go to sleep at 10pm..if you are going to bed 2-3 hours later..you can push no carbs until 10pm, I gather..it's all to do with assumption of activity rate..

Post: #324

I've noticed a trend in a lot of these diet threads:

Younger guys, who have always been into fitness tend to be more in the IIFYM camp (if it fits within your macros), calorie = calorie, and see dietary rules as simply some arbitrary way of forcing compliance with the above.

Older guys who have had some experience dealing with unwanted weight gain tend to be more open to paleo ideas, anti-inflammatory dietary choices, nutrient timing, fasting, etc.

Post: #325

(06-02-2014 04:20 PM)roberto Wrote:  Cheese has also had to go for the sake of my abs :-(

Yeah, cheese is no good for my abs either.

I only use it sparingly during the day rarely at night.

For someone trying to get a 6-pack, a calorie of cheese is much worse than a calorie of spinach.

(06-03-2014 08:14 AM)Moma Wrote:  If you retire around midnight or 1am

It's just my bro-science opinion but I think going to bed this late is not good for the belly.

I've noticed that the earlier I go to bed the better it is for my abs, everything else being equal.

I think it has something to do with the fact that the hormones in the body regulate and replenish themselves between 10pm and 2am.

The longer we stay up late, the more our body chemistry gets altered. This can often effect fat storage, fat loss, muscle retention, etc.