Post: #326

(06-03-2014 11:20 AM)Giovonny Wrote:  

(06-02-2014 04:20 PM)roberto Wrote:  Cheese has also had to go for the sake of my abs :-(

Yeah, cheese is no good for my abs either.

I only use it sparingly during the day rarely at night.

For someone trying to get a 6-pack, a calorie of cheese is much worse than a calorie of spinach.

(06-03-2014 08:14 AM)Moma Wrote:  If you retire around midnight or 1am

It's just my bro-science opinion but I think going to bed this late is not good for the belly.

I've noticed that the earlier I go to bed the better it is for my abs, everything else being equal.

I think it has something to do with the fact that the hormones in the body regulate and replenish themselves between 10pm and 2am.

The longer we stay up late, the more our body chemistry gets altered. This can often effect fat storage, fat loss, muscle retention, etc.

I suspect that the rest component of health is going to vary considerably for guys. One of my difficulties regarding rest is that I really enjoy salsa dancing, so frequently, I have to break up my sleep hours into smaller blocks and into non-routine blocks in order to partake in these kinds of activities 2-4 times per week, which tend to take place late into the evening... sometimes into the wee hours of the morning. If I know that it is going to be a late night for my dancing, then generally, I will take a nap (1-2 hours) before the event.

Accordingly, the hours that a guy exercises (in my case dance) and when he sleeps will also affect when he eats and the kinds of foods that he uses.

I tend to be very non-strict with the exact scheduling of these, and possibly my belly could be in better shape if I were ready and willing to follow more strict and regular schedulings.

Ultimately, guys will make trade-offs in order to partake in what we like, and even though I agree that there can be health benefits to having a routine that keeps body rhythms in line with the sun and the moon, I wonder whether non-routine patterns can still enjoy similar levels of health benefits and to make up for non-routine life-styles.

Post: #327

I've done a lot of research into health and lifestyle, as well as using logic, and I've modeled my life after it. I read a really great book called 'Blue Zones', where it details the diet and lifestyles of 5 different modern cultures that have a large concentration of centenarians (ppl that live 100+ years, completely healthy). I highly recommend reading it. Having a healthy lifestyle is about much more than just diet alone.

I would say the #1 piece of practical advice I would give anybody is to try to live your life like our great-grandparents did. Don't eat processed foods. Cook most of your own food. Don't eat anything with artificial/chemical preservatives, additives, taste enhancers, excitotoxins, etc. While this does initially limit your food choices with eating out, you start to realize that you can pretty much eat everything you used to eat - you just have to make it yourself (or if you live in a country such as the States, you can easily find whatever you need at stores such as Whole Foods and Trader Joes). The higher-class a restaurant is, the less you have to be worried, as well.

But taking it further than diet, our great-grandparents typically moved around a lot. You can bust your ass all you want in the gym, do insane amounts of cardio, but your NEAT (non-exercise activity thermogenesis, pretty much what we use our calories on outside of sleep and exercise) plays a rather large role in how many calories you're going to burn, and thus, giving you the body composition that you desire. Wearing an activity monitor such as the BodyMedia Fit or the FitBit (I personally used the BodyMedia Fit) shows you just how little you actually burn lifting weights compared to just moving around all day long. Even doing something as simple as taking your time while grocery shopping, walking up and down the aisles, burns a lot more calories than you might think.

Ask any parent that is actively involved in their kids' lives. Kids have you moving around all day long - and you're quite tired at the end of the day. You burn a lot of calories just by moving. Not even moving to get your heart rate up high. You wouldn't even consider it exercise. Washing the dishes, cooking a meal that takes an hour, doing the laundry, washing your car, etc. These are all things that collectively will burn much more calories than what you do at the gym.

Learn to move more! I know that we live in a society where we have automated so many things. At this point, many of us just run the machines that do the work for us. Well, look at where that's gotten us! Sure, we're more efficient than ever - but we're also sicker and fatter than we've ever been, too.

We're mostly a culture that sits on our asses all day long. Not there's anything wrong with it - animals are relatively lazy as well. For anybody that's ever owned a cat or dog, you know just how much they lay around and do nothing - but they also love to play! I think that we sit around excessively and we don't move enough. I've read that we should strive for a minimum of 10,000 steps a day (which isn't that hard to do if you dedicate yourself to just walking more daily). Parking the farthest away from the entrance to a store that you can (within the same parking lot). Walking to places (or riding your bike) instead of driving. Even just getting up from your desk every hour and walking around to get some water, use the bathroom, whatever.

I truly believe that our diet and lifestyle is the cause of many of our modern diseases/illnesses. I would first suggest to make sure that you're getting in at least 100% of the RDI of all your vitamins/minerals/fiber on a weekly basis. Use a site such as cronometer.com to track this for just 7 days. That's all you really need. It's a slap in the face when you realize just how much we're lacking in our diet. These deficiencies take time to develop, but they do develop into diseases and illnesses. For me, I found that I was consistently lacking in vitamin K, vitamin E, choline, magnesium and potassium. I'm not a huge fan of taking most supplements (there are a few I feel are beneficial to people, mainly fish oil and vitamin D), so I researched to see which foods have the highest amounts of these particular vitamins/minerals, and I made an effort to consume them. Now it's just habit, and I'm fairly certain that I'm not deficient in anything.

The next issue is having an adequate Omega-3 : Omega-6 ratio. I've read that it's best to have as close to 1:1 as you can, but strive for 1:4 or better. Eat your grass-fed beef, fatty fish, or just supplement with fish oil pills. Watch how less your joints hurt. Watch how sharper your mind gets. Just watch as body starts running a bit better. We consume far too many Omega-6 fatty acids in relation to Omega-3, and too many Omega-6 fatty acids are just horrible for us. The main source of these Omega-6 fatty acids are vegetable oils.

If you start tracking your nutrition with a site such as cronometer.com or nutritiondata.com, you'll realize that in order to meet at least 100% of the RDI, as well as get your fiber in, you're going to have to consume fruits and vegetables. If you enjoy eating vegetables, then have it! If you're like me and can't stand most veggies, well you've got a bit of research to do, but you'll find it's quite easily done for the most part. Meat, fruit, grain, and dairy will provide a ton of your nutrients, but you will have to consume some green vegetables daily - there's no way around it. Vitamin K is found in abundance in green veggies. If you like carrots, vitamin K is also found in them. Personally, I have a juicer and I juice 1 large cucumber, 1 large carrot, and 2 apples (for taste). That tops off my nutrients that I don't get from the rest of my diet.

It's very difficult to overeat (and thus be fat and/or sick) when you just eat natural, whole, unprocessed foods. Don't we all love a nice steak, baked potato with sour cream and butter on top, some cooked veggies on the side, and a few hot dinner rolls to go with it (with some butter spread on them)? That's an incredibly healthy meal, you can't overeat that meal, and that meal will take care of you.

My own diet changes all the time, but I stick to the same rules that I wrote above. Right now, I'm eating a ton of fruit, eggs and meat. When I get tired of that, I'll switch it up. Maybe I'll get on a kick and eat a ton of rice, beans, seafood. etc. Sometimes I get on a baking kick and I'll bake a lot of white bread and cornbread (that's the Southerner in me!). My diet is always fairly simple, yet incredibly nutritious.

I'm lucky that I don't have any issues with consuming dairy and grains. Many people have issues with them and can't enjoy them. That sucks! I love a big glass of cold milk and some sweet cornbread. That's a meal for me, I love it, it's nutritious, and just tastes so damn good.

I really don't mean to come across as a troll. I will stand behind everything I have said. When it comes to either gaining or losing fat, it's all about controlling your energy balance. Being healthy - well now, that's an entirely different ballgame, now ain't it?

Post: #328

(06-04-2014 08:51 PM)SteveCR Wrote:  I've done a lot of research into health and lifestyle, as well as using logic, and I've modeled my life after it. I read a really great book called 'Blue Zones', where it details the diet and lifestyles of 5 different modern cultures that have a large concentration of centenarians (ppl that live 100+ years, completely healthy). I highly recommend reading it. Having a healthy lifestyle is about much more than just diet alone.

I would say the #1 piece of practical advice I would give anybody is to try to live your life like our great-grandparents did. Don't eat processed foods. Cook most of your own food. Don't eat anything with artificial/chemical preservatives, additives, taste enhancers, excitotoxins, etc. While this does initially limit your food choices with eating out, you start to realize that you can pretty much eat everything you used to eat - you just have to make it yourself (or if you live in a country such as the States, you can easily find whatever you need at stores such as Whole Foods and Trader Joes). The higher-class a restaurant is, the less you have to be worried, as well.

But taking it further than diet, our great-grandparents typically moved around a lot. You can bust your ass all you want in the gym, do insane amounts of cardio, but your NEAT (non-exercise activity thermogenesis, pretty much what we use our calories on outside of sleep and exercise) plays a rather large role in how many calories you're going to burn, and thus, giving you the body composition that you desire. Wearing an activity monitor such as the BodyMedia Fit or the FitBit (I personally used the BodyMedia Fit) shows you just how little you actually burn lifting weights compared to just moving around all day long. Even doing something as simple as taking your time while grocery shopping, walking up and down the aisles, burns a lot more calories than you might think.

Ask any parent that is actively involved in their kids' lives. Kids have you moving around all day long - and you're quite tired at the end of the day. You burn a lot of calories just by moving. Not even moving to get your heart rate up high. You wouldn't even consider it exercise. Washing the dishes, cooking a meal that takes an hour, doing the laundry, washing your car, etc. These are all things that collectively will burn much more calories than what you do at the gym.

Learn to move more! I know that we live in a society where we have automated so many things. At this point, many of us just run the machines that do the work for us. Well, look at where that's gotten us! Sure, we're more efficient than ever - but we're also sicker and fatter than we've ever been, too.

We're mostly a culture that sits on our asses all day long. Not there's anything wrong with it - animals are relatively lazy as well. For anybody that's ever owned a cat or dog, you know just how much they lay around and do nothing - but they also love to play! I think that we sit around excessively and we don't move enough. I've read that we should strive for a minimum of 10,000 steps a day (which isn't that hard to do if you dedicate yourself to just walking more daily). Parking the farthest away from the entrance to a store that you can (within the same parking lot). Walking to places (or riding your bike) instead of driving. Even just getting up from your desk every hour and walking around to get some water, use the bathroom, whatever.

I truly believe that our diet and lifestyle is the cause of many of our modern diseases/illnesses. I would first suggest to make sure that you're getting in at least 100% of the RDI of all your vitamins/minerals/fiber on a weekly basis. Use a site such as cronometer.com to track this for just 7 days. That's all you really need. It's a slap in the face when you realize just how much we're lacking in our diet. These deficiencies take time to develop, but they do develop into diseases and illnesses. For me, I found that I was consistently lacking in vitamin K, vitamin E, choline, magnesium and potassium. I'm not a huge fan of taking most supplements (there are a few I feel are beneficial to people, mainly fish oil and vitamin D), so I researched to see which foods have the highest amounts of these particular vitamins/minerals, and I made an effort to consume them. Now it's just habit, and I'm fairly certain that I'm not deficient in anything.

The next issue is having an adequate Omega-3 : Omega-6 ratio. I've read that it's best to have as close to 1:1 as you can, but strive for 1:4 or better. Eat your grass-fed beef, fatty fish, or just supplement with fish oil pills. Watch how less your joints hurt. Watch how sharper your mind gets. Just watch as body starts running a bit better. We consume far too many Omega-6 fatty acids in relation to Omega-3, and too many Omega-6 fatty acids are just horrible for us. The main source of these Omega-6 fatty acids are vegetable oils.

If you start tracking your nutrition with a site such as cronometer.com or nutritiondata.com, you'll realize that in order to meet at least 100% of the RDI, as well as get your fiber in, you're going to have to consume fruits and vegetables. If you enjoy eating vegetables, then have it! If you're like me and can't stand most veggies, well you've got a bit of research to do, but you'll find it's quite easily done for the most part. Meat, fruit, grain, and dairy will provide a ton of your nutrients, but you will have to consume some green vegetables daily - there's no way around it. Vitamin K is found in abundance in green veggies. If you like carrots, vitamin K is also found in them. Personally, I have a juicer and I juice 1 large cucumber, 1 large carrot, and 2 apples (for taste). That tops off my nutrients that I don't get from the rest of my diet.

It's very difficult to overeat (and thus be fat and/or sick) when you just eat natural, whole, unprocessed foods. Don't we all love a nice steak, baked potato with sour cream and butter on top, some cooked veggies on the side, and a few hot dinner rolls to go with it (with some butter spread on them)? That's an incredibly healthy meal, you can't overeat that meal, and that meal will take care of you.

My own diet changes all the time, but I stick to the same rules that I wrote above. Right now, I'm eating a ton of fruit, eggs and meat. When I get tired of that, I'll switch it up. Maybe I'll get on a kick and eat a ton of rice, beans, seafood. etc. Sometimes I get on a baking kick and I'll bake a lot of white bread and cornbread (that's the Southerner in me!). My diet is always fairly simple, yet incredibly nutritious.

I'm lucky that I don't have any issues with consuming dairy and grains. Many people have issues with them and can't enjoy them. That sucks! I love a big glass of cold milk and some sweet cornbread. That's a meal for me, I love it, it's nutritious, and just tastes so damn good.

I really don't mean to come across as a troll. I will stand behind everything I have said. When it comes to either gaining or losing fat, it's all about controlling your energy balance. Being healthy - well now, that's an entirely different ballgame, now ain't it?

That's a fairly non-controversial post, and if you had started out like that, then probably, you would not have attracted so much hostility from me and from other guys.

I agree with a lot of your points here, except possibly in the last couple paragraphs where you seem to be suggesting that the nutrients in grains may be similar to the other foods that you described or the extent to which you are suggesting this thermodynamics theory by your reference to energy balance. Nonetheless, there is way more, here, to agree with than to disagree, and your disagreeable points seem to be described with less arrogance... which is appreciated by me anyhow.


By the way, one of your points about dairy and your tolerance for dairy. Personally, I am of the sense that most guys would be able to tolerate raw dairy and/or high fat dairy, but dairy these days gets many guys into trouble b/c dairy these days is almost universally processed and almost universally relieved of its nutritious fatty elements. Guys end up consuming low fat variations of dairy with the impression that the low fat variations contain equal or more nutrients as the high fat versions, when the inverse is true. I have my own wish that dairy could be produced in a manner that is less industrialized in order that more people could enjoy its benefits (and thereby be able to consume and to have raw dairy available to them), instead we are served by toxic versions of processed dairy b/c of its having been overly processed by homogenization, pasteurization, and added hormones and added pharmecueticals and even poor cow diets. In the end, the overly industrialization of milk seems to cause considerable levels of intolerance, bloating and inflammation in guys, even relatively fit guys.

Post: #329

science

Post: #330

(06-03-2014 11:52 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  I suspect that the rest component of health is going to vary considerably for guys.

We all have different needs in terms of rest.

Some guys need more than others.

But, that said, I am the healthiest when I obey my body rather than when I try to force my body to obey me.

If you know what I mean..?

Post: #331

(06-06-2014 02:57 PM)Giovonny Wrote:   I am the healthiest when I obey my body rather than when I try to force my body to obey me.

Too true. I self-experiment all the time, I enjoy trying to be the best I can, both physically and mentally. And I'll try whatever diet that people tout as being the greatest ever - and more often than that, my body screams at me "what da fuq do you think ur doin!?".

For instance, high fat diet. Highly sustainable energy, etc. Not for me, hell no. My body screams at me for doing that. But that's just me. I wouldn't tell everybody not to do a high fat diet, it obviously works for many people.

I seem to function best on a 50% carb, 30% fat, 20% protein diet (which also happens to be the caloric percentages contained in Soylent). Everything just works flawlessly when I actually pay attention to my body and quit trying to force my body to abide by a certain set of numbers.

Post: #332

I'm on a mission to lose the belly and build muscle. Into it six weeks now, already looser at the waist.

Breakfast is coffee and 4 tbsp oatmeal with 5 or 6 small dates and 2 hard boiled eggs. Sometimes a banana.

Walk one mile to school, one mile back.

Lunch is piece of flatbread/pita bread with peanut butter plus fruit.

Preworkout piece of fruit and glass of juice with creatine. Postworkout protein shake.

Dinner is home made vegetable soup with lentils and chickpeas. Sometimes eat out, steak or chicken.

My main problem is fatigue and slow recovery from workouts, I get lagged the next afternoons sometimes. Due to age I am sure.

Post: #333

Sp5,

Make a drink for your workouts: glycofuse and BCAA's. I'm older too. I think it really helps with recovery.

Post: #334

(06-06-2014 03:39 PM)Sp5 Wrote:  I'm on a mission to lose the belly and build muscle. Into it six weeks now, already looser at the waist.

Breakfast is coffee and 4 tbsp oatmeal with 5 or 6 small dates and 2 hard boiled eggs. Sometimes a banana.

Walk one mile to school, one mile back.

Lunch is piece of flatbread/pita bread with peanut butter plus fruit.

Preworkout piece of fruit and glass of juice with creatine. Postworkout protein shake.

Dinner is home made vegetable soup with lentils and chickpeas. Sometimes eat out, steak or chicken.

My main problem is fatigue and slow recovery from workouts, I get lagged the next afternoons sometimes. Due to age I am sure.

I would assume that you're so tired because you're not eating enough. But if you're on a mission to lose your belly in the quickest time possible, sometimes that's just what it takes. Does coffee help?

Post: #335

(06-06-2014 03:56 PM)SteveCR Wrote:  

(06-06-2014 03:39 PM)Sp5 Wrote:  I'm on a mission to lose the belly and build muscle. Into it six weeks now, already looser at the waist.

Breakfast is coffee and 4 tbsp oatmeal with 5 or 6 small dates and 2 hard boiled eggs. Sometimes a banana.

Walk one mile to school, one mile back.

Lunch is piece of flatbread/pita bread with peanut butter plus fruit.

Preworkout piece of fruit and glass of juice with creatine. Postworkout protein shake.

Dinner is home made vegetable soup with lentils and chickpeas. Sometimes eat out, steak or chicken.

My main problem is fatigue and slow recovery from workouts, I get lagged the next afternoons sometimes. Due to age I am sure.

I would assume that you're so tired because you're not eating enough. But if you're on a mission to lose your belly in the quickest time possible, sometimes that's just what it takes. Does coffee help?

Coffee always helps!

A lot of it seems to be from cumulative muscle soreness, and I end up having to take an extra day off of gym. Usually, I am day on / day off.

Post: #336

(06-06-2014 02:57 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

(06-03-2014 11:52 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  I suspect that the rest component of health is going to vary considerably for guys.

We all have different needs in terms of rest.

Some guys need more than others.

But, that said, I am the healthiest when I obey my body rather than when I try to force my body to obey me.

If you know what I mean..?

I think that I know what you mean... but just as a reminder, I made my comment to contrast with the concept of following a strict and regular schedule when it comes to sleeping times. And, i was referring to that variation that guys seem to suffer, especially sometimes, certain activities and/or recreation will cause needs and/or temptations for guys to NOT stay on a routine sleeping schedule.

Activities make a difference too...

And age....

when I was in my early 30s, I used to train for marathons, and it is kind of weird, b/c for a while, my philosophy was that I did NOT like running that much and that I only need to train once a week, on saturdays to run some ungodly distance between 15 and 22 miles in order to "train" and build up towards running a marathon. Frequently, I would go out dancing those Friday nights, and then I would nap after the Saturday runs and then I would go out dancing on Saturday nights too.. and frequently Sundays... seems a little ridiculous now, but I could keep up that pace.

My level of energy and my recovery times is NOT as good in my 40s as it was in my 30s.

I have NOT found the exact perfect balance, either, but i do try to follow my body and to have enough flexibility in my schedule that i am able to take a nap between exercising extensively and going dancing or some other kind of taxing activity.

Frequently, i felt better to take those kinds of sleeping breaks between exercise activities in my 30s too, but I recall being better able to tolerate higher levels of muscle exhaustion and then recovery to be able to do it again and again.

I tend to think longer recovery times is due to age rather than diet, yet I am open to considerations, in the event that I find some dietary aspects that allow better recovery times. In recent years, I have also found young coconuts to be fairly replenishing of electrolytes after extensive exercise and to cut off the top, and then to drink the coconut water and to eat the meat from the inside. Usually, I will eat/drink these kinds of young coconuts after sleeping/napping rather than before, but really I am NOT sure.. sometimes I worry about getting any kind of sugar or energy rush from the ingestion any foods (drinks) before sleeping or napping.

Post: #337

JayJuanGee, why'd you quit running? I'm in my mid 30s, and just started running in January. I like it so far, but nothing I've found so far compares to mountain biking.

Post: #338

(06-07-2014 02:22 PM)SteveCR Wrote:  JayJuanGee, why'd you quit running? I'm in my mid 30s, and just started running in January. I like it so far, but nothing I've found so far compares to mountain biking.

I try to vary my workouts and my activities (such as adding some additional resistance training and sprints), and I ran several marathons over the years (before running marathons, I ran several half marathons); however, running long distances takes a considerable toll on your body and your time.

Also, recently, I have been dancing more than I had done previously, so sometimes I will consider dance to substitute for whatever cardio workout that I feel that I need to fit in to my week.

I still run, from time to time, maybe 6 miles at a stretch or some other variation... but I really am NOT that excited about running long distances - except that it is very convenient and portable.. and sometimes it can be a very good mode to explore a new city (area) when traveling. I also sometimes use running as an excuse to get 30-60 minutes of sunshine.

I remain of the belief that overall healthy activities affects the belly fat level, yet each of us are going to find that our activities vary quite a bit from person to person and over time within the same person, and frequently to put these considerations into an exact schedule b/c a lot of us will mix up our activities, which is going to cause us to adjust when we eat and what kinds of foods work for our schedule.. even fitting in travel can cause many variations in the three important controllable factors of diet, sleep and exercise.

Post: #339

Negative association can also be a great tool in helping you avoid junk food. When I see a piece of cake or a slice of toast, on an instinctual level I think it will make me fat, I think of myself joining the ranks of fat people and it disgusts me. Intellectually, I know this is unlikely, but it keeps my compliance at 100% and means I'm always careful to have an acceptable alternative. I walked into a meeting offering free pizza and cookies with my bowl of rice.

Also, I've been using canned coconut milk for bulking as a replacement for dairy cream.

Has anyone here ever been super skinny and STILL not ripped?

I used to be at a 17 BMI (now at 25), and even then I didn't have a six pack or any vascularity. I was weak as shit too, of course. Now I'm much stronger, but in either case I have that bothersome layer of fat, what separates about 13-14% BF from 10% BF. Even when I stopped lifting and chronically underate, I lost a ton of weight and was still not 'chiseled.'

Going to look into the bodyfat set point theory.

I keep hearing that it's a bad idea to pair starch or carb consumption with fat consumption, particarly saturated fat - is there any credence to that?

Post: #340

(06-07-2014 09:27 PM)Basil Ransom Wrote:  Going to look into the bodyfat set point theory.

I keep hearing that it's a bad idea to pair starch or carb consumption with fat consumption, particarly saturated fat - is there any credence to that?

I believe that most of the discussion around negative effects of saturated fat are based on old and falacious assumptions in which they lump all fats together and try to suggest that the only good fat is olive oil or to fail to differentiate transfat with saturated fat.

So, even though there has been nearly 10 years of acknowledgement that transfats are NOT good for us, they are still on the market and they are still being substituted for saturated fats, as that momenttum to substitute saturated fats with transfats started with crisco in the turn to eh 19th /20th century and it gained momentum in the 50s, 60s 70s and 80s. Those misconceptions about saturated fats still linger in popular and sloppy literature.

Post: #341

I'm on a path to lose that last bit of belly fat. I want to put some weight on over the winter and to do that effectively I have to commit to it. I've always added only 5-10 pounds and stopped because of a belly. Literally all my extra fat goes there, it sucks.

Over the past couple months I've lost 5 pounds really slowly, coming from 155 to 150. I'd say I'm around 15% body fat now. If I lose another 5 within the next couple months I feel I'll be in a much better position to 'bulk' slowly afterwards.

Definitely doable, I know. For me so far it's been a mix of counting calories, intermittent fasts, workout every other day. I have an insane appetite for someone my weight I believe so that is my disadvantage. Fortunately I find throwing in a 16-24 hour fast after every time I indulge too much does the trick.

Post: #342

My strategy for disengaging the belly fat is:

I've started going back to the gym. I hit the free weights about 3 times a week..gonna dial it up to four times.it helps since I have a visitor and we are both trying to take it up a notch. He's naturally slim (5'10, 140lbs) and as ripped as incorrect homework in a third world classroom. He's strong for his build so we both feeding off of each other, spotting in the gym.

That is the best strategy for me to draw the belly in letting the newly activated muscle fibres feed on the energy stored in the fat cells..my eating is the same..it was always clean..all that solo vegetable eating and no food after 6pm doesn't work for me, it's akin to running marathons vs sprinting for losing weight, they both work but one is the long way around.

I will keep you posted.

Post: #343

(06-13-2014 09:52 AM)Moma Wrote:  My strategy for disengaging the belly fat is:

I've started going back to the gym. I hit the free weights about 3 times a week..gonna dial it up to four times.it helps since I have a visitor and we are both trying to take it up a notch. He's naturally slim (5'10, 140lbs) and as ripped as incorrect homework in a third world classroom. He's strong for his build so we both feeding off of each other, spotting in the gym.

That is the best strategy for me to draw the belly in letting the newly activated muscle fibres feed on the energy stored in the fat cells..my eating is the same..it was always clean..all that solo vegetable eating and no food after 6pm doesn't work for me, it's akin to running marathons vs sprinting for losing weight, they both work but one is the long way around.

I will keep you posted.

You are correct that your friend's physique seems to be pretty slim.... Is he in his 20s, 30s or 40s? I would surmise that most guys tend to increase their girth through the years, even by doing the same thing.

Nonetheless, our discussion in this thread seems to be to suggest ways to control some of the natural aging tendencies, at least in regards to belly management techniques.

Certainly, i am NOT any kind of perfection, but I will share a description of my perception of my own belly journey.

I'm 5' 9"- ish.

When I graduated from HS, I was pretty slim 130lbs-ish. I never really cared about whether I had a belly or NOT, yet I was NOT exactly musclar or anything and I always though that I had a little belly, which later in life I have come to believe that whatever belly I had was attributable to some of the impurities in my diet.. and probably the fact that there were some excessive processed foods and sugars in my diet.

By the time I was 18 or 19 years old, I began to lift weights, and nearly immediately moved into the 150-165 lb territory.. and stayed there through my 20s and into my early 30s. During this time, I had some belly, but my muscle mass was fairly decent b/c I continued to be somewhat active, yet I ate anything that I wanted.. including fairly decent amounts of processed foods.

From early to late 30s, I slowly graduated to 190lbs, and by early 40s, I was 205lbs... hehehehe.. beginning to get a little bit of a belly.. During this period, I continued a similar level of activity and I ran several marathons, yet I continued to increase the processed foods and sweets in my diet.. likely a certain amount of carb creep...


In the last three years in my 40s, my exercise has NOT changed too much, and my sleep has maybe gotten a little better (like I try to get at least 6 to 8 hours of sleep per night); however, the main thing that I changed during the last three years has been my diet. I have cut out processed foods, increased natural foods and meats and fats.. yet I consider my diet ideas to still be evolving. Nonetheless, I have been eating pretty much as much food as I want (but avoiding processed foods and excess added sugars and limiting my carb load). And, during these last three years, my weight came down little by little and with the weight coming down the belly fat was the main area of change (and I was NOT really focused specifically on reducing belly fat). In about the last year my weight has mostly been between 170 and 175lbs.

About three years ago, I bought an Omron scale that measures various body compositions (including weight, bmi, muscle, fat, visceral fat and provides a body age).

My belly has NOT gone away completely, but my proportions look a lot better in the mirror.. so merely by losing the weight, my weight redistribution seems to have mostly come from loosing my belly fat.


Questions for Moma (or any other guy that wants to answer these):
1) What are your approximate body measurements (maybe you already provided this... hehehhe.. , if so, sorry)?

2) How have your various body measurements evolved over time?

3) Can you give us an overview regarding how you perceive your body composition to be evolving or stagnating in certain periods over the years?

4) what is your plan to measure progress? Are you using a scale? Body measurements? how you look in the mirror? How you feel?

Post: #344

(06-13-2014 12:54 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  Questions for Moma (or any other guy that wants to answer these):
1) What are your approximate body measurements (maybe you already provided this... hehehhe.. , if so, sorry)?

I haven't measured my body but I'm well over 200 pounds.

2) How have your various body measurements evolved over time?

I have cut down on physical activity in the past two-three years due to adjustment in bad US of A and that may contribute as well as age to me losing a bit of the lean look.

3) Can you give us an overview regarding how you perceive your body composition to be evolving or stagnating in certain periods over the years?

My body is coming along, my journey has been the everlasting quest to find the right natural foods to tweak and provide me with optimal and chronic energy as well as mental alacrity. It's only in the past 4 years that I have found my leanness taper off and I have to be very diligent to retain that crisp look.

4) what is your plan to measure progress? Are you using a scale? Body measurements? how you look in the mirror? How you feel?

I look in the mirror. She never lies. If I look sexy, lizards will think I look sexier. It's that simple. Jumping on the scale helps for bro points..but ultimately if I see cuts and ridges in the mirror and bulges in the right place, I am winning.

UPDATE:

Tweaking the diet is not enough. I am back in the gym and now the potbelly is flatter and can now be squeezed into a ridged shape due to the awoken muscles.

Post: #345

I tried to find a documentary i once saw about a guy in his 40`s doing a natural bodybuilding show. Anyway he began training at around 210 and ended up competing at 155 at 5%.

I dont understand how this thread got so many pages by now, truth is most guys have a belly that dont go away because a) they weigh too much b) they underestimate how much bodyfat theyre carrying c) they overestimate how much LBM they have.

Most natural pro bodybuilders who have more than 10 years of training, never compete at more than 180 lbs.
Im assuming most of you are only recreational lifters, if so at a normal height you guys shouldnt be above 160-170 lbs.
I dont see the point in discussing about foods that cause bloating when the real problem is weighing over 200.

" The average weight for men aged 20-74 years rose dramatically from 166.3 pounds in 1960 to 191 pounds in 2002"
Its not like guys out of nowhere started producing more testosterone or hitting the gym religiously at a young age. All of that weight gain was fat.

If youre not devoting many years of your life to weight training you should expect to have the body of a child by today standards when ripped.

Post: #346

(06-22-2014 10:20 PM)dog24 Wrote:  I tried to find a documentary i once saw about a guy in his 40`s doing a natural bodybuilding show. Anyway he began training at around 210 and ended up competing at 155 at 5%.

I dont understand how this thread got so many pages by now, truth is most guys have a belly that dont go away because a) they weigh too much b) they underestimate how much bodyfat theyre carrying c) they overestimate how much LBM they have.

Most natural pro bodybuilders who have more than 10 years of training, never compete at more than 180 lbs.
Im assuming most of you are only recreational lifters, if so at a normal height you guys shouldnt be above 160-170 lbs.
I dont see the point in discussing about foods that cause bloating when the real problem is weighing over 200.

" The average weight for men aged 20-74 years rose dramatically from 166.3 pounds in 1960 to 191 pounds in 2002"
Its not like guys out of nowhere started producing more testosterone or hitting the gym religiously at a young age. All of that weight gain was fat.

If youre not devoting many years of your life to weight training you should expect to have the body of a child by today standards when ripped.

Your point is that guys participating in this thread need to do more weight lifting if we are NOT doing it, and we are wasting our time exploring these other various avenues such as dietary contributions or rest or other possible exercises b/c apparently the solution is fairly simple, from your perspective?

Your post comes off as a little judgmental, even though that may have NOT been your intent...

This thread is so long b/c guys have varying perspectives about how to get from point A to point B, and I really doubt that there is one solution that is going to fit everyone - especially, we have a lot of temptations and differences in our lifestyles, preferences and activities. Additionally, NOT all guys necessarily strive for a six pack.. and NOT all guys want to get to point B but they may be willing to go to point C or D - so my point is that there is variance among guys - even with ages and genetics and history, even though some guys still may be keen on discussing and considering various techniques and activities that they may fit into their lives.

Dog24: Do you have a regime that you want to outline more specifically that involves more than just sit ups? or more than just exercise more and eat less? In essence, I'm NOT really sure about the specifics activities and/or diet that you are suggesting.

Post: #347

(06-22-2014 10:36 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  Additionally, NOT all guys necessarily strive for a six pack..

A six pack starts to show at 12%, between 12 and 15 you have a flat belly, anymore than that and you have a belly. (Obviously not taking in consideration bloating, that lasts only a few hours or problems with the posture like anterior pelvic tilt)

Is this thread about losing bodyfat or about why do some guys keep having a belly even though they diet and exercise?
If youre not doing anything to improve your LBM any pound you gain is gonna be fat, and most likely gonna end up in your mid section.

So my advice for anyone who does C and D but still has a belly would be you have to lose more weight, thats when the guys i usually talk to in real life about this stuff say but i dont want to be too small, but apparently youre not one of those guys so my apologies to you if i offended you in anyway.

Post: #348

(06-22-2014 11:10 PM)dog24 Wrote:  

(06-22-2014 10:36 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  Additionally, NOT all guys necessarily strive for a six pack..

A six pack starts to show at 12%, between 12 and 15 you have a flat belly, anymore than that and you have a belly. (Obviously not taking in consideration bloating, that lasts only a few hours or problems with the posture like anterior pelvic tilt)

Is this thread about losing bodyfat or about why do some guys keep having a belly even though they diet and exercise?
If youre not doing anything to improve your LBM any pound you gain is gonna be fat, and most likely gonna end up in your mid section.

So my advice for anyone who does C and D but still has a belly would be you have to lose more weight, thats when the guys i usually talk to in real life about this stuff say but i dont want to be too small, but apparently youre not one of those guys so my apologies to you if i offended you in anyway.

I'm NOT offended, yet I am concerned somewhat about particulars b/c I doubt that too many guys participating in this thread would want to have standards of what is fat and what is NOT imposed upon him.

Actually, I recently (within the last three years) lost some body fat and some belly fat; however, that was NOT my goal. My goal was to merely improve my energy and my lab results (cholesterol), and losing belly fat was a side result of the changes to my diet and some other lifestyle changes. I feel better after I did that, but I still proclaim that was NOT my goal, even though it was probably a good effect.

Anyhow, guys body fat numbers and measurements may vary, and if a guy says that his goal is to lose body fat or to lose belly fat, then I would want to know how that guy is measuring his progress in obtaining his goal(s) - that was part of the reason for one of my earlier posts in this thread.

Also, earlier I provided some general dietary links and references, but it is up to guys if they want to follow those - including one earlier reference to Wheatbellies - which as the name implies attributes belly fat to wheat consumption.

I personally find that it is much easier to help guys to help themselves, if you know what are their goals.

You and I may be saying similar things with regard to having means to measure the body - but then a question still remains what to do about it once we figure out the measurement(s).

Post: #349

It's in this kind of topic you see that some guys are not far off from astrology mentality they hate in women. For some people it's just impossible to lose their lower belly fat no matter how much weight they lose and how much they "work hard bro".

I'm one of these guys. 1m90, dropped to 60 kg at a point due to anorexia, belly was still there. Only one thing will get rid of it for me and most likely OP and other posters worried about it: liposuction.

I know a lot of guys here don't want to hear that and prefer the "you have an intolerance to glucose lactose gluten and it's making your body grow a belly!" new-age claims, but I'm just stating the reality here.

The fact that there are already 14 pages on this topic proves that there is just a lot of nonsense "that might work" promoted here and that no one is getting anywhere.

Post: #350

(06-28-2014 05:07 AM)Fred970 Wrote:  It's in this kind of topic you see that some guys are not far off from astrology mentality they hate in women. For some people it's just impossible to lose their lower belly fat no matter how much weight they lose and how much they "work hard bro".

I'm one of these guys. 1m90, dropped to 60 kg at a point due to anorexia, belly was still there. Only one thing will get rid of it for me and most likely OP and other posters worried about it: liposuction.

I know a lot of guys here don't want to hear that and prefer the "you have an intolerance to glucose lactose gluten and it's making your body grow a belly!" new-age claims, but I'm just stating the reality here.

The fact that there are already 14 pages on this topic proves that there is just a lot of nonsense "that might work" promoted here and that no one is getting anywhere.

Without knowing more about your situation, I do NOT buy that the ONLY solution for some guys is liposuction... unless there is some strange genetic defect, which could be the case for a small percentage of people. We are mostly discussing here, things that are within the control of guys diet, sleep and exercise in order for guys to try their own solutions within things that they can change - that is if they want to or feel it could be helpful to them.

You misread about 13 pages of this thread if you are of the belief that guys here are posting about new-fangled solutions or that guys are blaming gluten or lactose intolerance... though there are a large number of suggestions to cut glucose producing products from your diet and to cut processed foods from a guy's diet and to eat whole and natural foods - with some suggestions that some foods are better than others and some foods are worse than others.

There is some mention of genetics, yet from the things that guys can change, even though some guys here do promote exercise, we also talk about diet and sleep (and/or removal of stress) as being important. I personally believe diet and sleep are more important, yet I am certainly NOT against exercise for overall health purposes b/c I do incorporate exercise into my lifestyle. I just remain doubtful about the centrality of exercise in the removal of fat or belly fat in regards to it being the main solution.

Maybe rather than criticizing the length of the thread, you may want to discuss all the things that you tried over the years and the diet and lifestyle that you were following during the time that you were apparently anorexic while maintaining a belly.

Also, some things may be more difficult to accomplish with age, such as changing lifestyle or reducing a belly, but I would definitely consider liposuction or even gastric banding type solutions as being amongst the last resorts - or even sorts of lazy resorts... but then again coming to that judgement would depend upon details and what guys have tried and the particulars of a guy's situation.... which seems that we may need to hear more of your particulars, Fred970.