Post: #101

(12-15-2013 04:23 PM)pants Wrote:  I think Mido makes some absolutely beautiful watches!

According to the watch community, its a hidden secret amongst watch collectors. The price/quality is really good.

While there are still some watch companies that make their own movements, about a half dozen watch movement companies supply a very high percentage of movements to most of the remainder of the industry. (I am talking high quality mechanical movements, not quartz movements).

Despite companies using the very same movement, there can be thousands of dollars difference in the price of watches using the exact same movement -- just because of the brand name and the marketing. For example, if you want value, you should avoid most designers who sell watches. They may sell a quality product, but much of the price is based on the designer name and you will find the same quality for far less elsewhere. Some companies do tweak these basic movements and turn them into something special. So, research is the key.

Switzerland launched an investigation after Swatch announced that it would no longer sell its ETA movements to other companies, because it would put so many other watch companies out of business.

Quote:In 2003 the Swiss Competition Commission launched an investigation into the business practices of ETA SA after Nicholas Hayek, then chairman of ETA parent The Swatch Group Ltd., announced in 2002 that ETA would shortly stop supplying ébauches (partial watch movements) to companies outside The Swatch Group. Competitors complained that this would effectively put them out of business. Hayek countered that Swiss watch making companies must begin to invest in their own movement-making capabilities because it was detrimental to the long term health of the Swiss watchmaking industry to rely on one supplier, ETA, for the bulk of ébauche and parts production. The Swiss Competition Commission ordered ETA to continue supplying ébauches to companies outside The Swatch Group during the investigation.[12]

In 2005 the Swiss Competition Commission concluded its investigation and ordered ETA to continue delivering ébauches and parts at the then current levels until 2008, after which ETA was allowed to gradually reduce deliveries until 2010. The Commission had found that for ébauches in the price range up to US$256, there were no real alternatives and ETA's decision to stop deliveries was a breach of Swiss law pertaining to cartels.[12]

Although the 2005 decision has spurred some watchmakers to invest in the personnel and equipment necessary to produce movements in-house, heavy reliance on ETA continues to the present day. The original finding has been extended, with the Swiss Competition Commission ordering in July 2012 that based on 2010 supply levels, ETA may reduce the level of supplied movements by 30 percent in 2014-2015, 50 percent in 2016-2017 and by 70 percent by 2018-2019. The number of Nivarox products that must be offered will be reduced gradually, dropping by 70 percent by the year 2023. ETA hopes to eventually reach a market position where they are allowed to freely choose to supply or not to supply parts and ébauches to competitors based solely on ETA's discretion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ETA_SA

Post: #102

(12-14-2013 12:00 AM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  

(12-12-2013 05:13 PM)Vicious Wrote:  I'm going to New York City in Januari (Yes there will be a Power Trip report).

Anyone got a line on a good shop for used watches? I know where all the official stores are.

For many years, I collected classic Patek Philippe watches from the 1940 to 1965 period. I love the classic styling from that period, especially the 1950's.

A great used watch (from amongst a handful of companies) is also a great investment. You can wear the watch for years and then sell it for more than you paid -- or you can pass it on to your heirs.

Based on my experience, you will get the best bargains on ebay. Whenever I walked into a pawn shop or a high-end watch shop, I would always laugh at the asking prices. The prices were so high, I would not even try to negotiate. They ask top dollar. Just use the stores to handle the watches and determine what you like. Then buy elsewhere and use the savings on a flight to Europe.

Select a make and model that you like, determine a low-ball price, set an auto-alert on ebay, place your top bid by snipe, and let the price come to you. I never bought a watch on ebay without a $1,000 profit built into the deal. Buying in this manner is just like buying a stock or other investment. Determine the price of a good deal. Then let the price come to you.

If you buy on ebay, set about $300 aside for an overhaul from a local watchmaker. There are many scam artists on ebay, so exercise caution. The best deals come from private parties who want to unload a family heirloom or someone who needs quick money.

A rule of thumb is that a used watch in excellent condition will cost about half the price of a new one. So, a watch that retails for $12,000 and is commonly available new for $10,000 will cost about $5,000 used. So, nabbing one at $4,000 is an excellent deal. That applies to premium watch brands (Patek, Breguet, Audemars, Vacheron, Rolex, etc.). Other watches will not necessarily hold their value as well.

BTW: I hate the Rolex watch style. They are very well engineered. I would wear one if I climbed K2 or went to the moon. But IMO they are big, chunky, and bulky. They hold their value because of EXTREME marketing that has established the company in the minds of the masses as a rich man's watch. The De Beers of watches.

Rolex produces more watches in one year than Patek has manufactured since the founding of the company in the 1851. Patek holds almost all the major auction house records. During the last financial crisis, the value of Rolex watches at auction took a hit, but Patek values held. Patek Philippe has had the Calatrava line of watches in production since 1932 (different varieties).

An old adage: "A man who wants to look rich wears a Rolex. A man who is rich wears a Patek Philippe." lol

If you are buying on ebay how do you make sure you aren't buying a fake?

Post: #103

(12-15-2013 07:25 PM)TheBMan Wrote:  

(12-14-2013 12:00 AM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  

(12-12-2013 05:13 PM)Vicious Wrote:  I'm going to New York City in Januari (Yes there will be a Power Trip report).

Anyone got a line on a good shop for used watches? I know where all the official stores are.

For many years, I collected classic Patek Philippe watches from the 1940 to 1965 period. I love the classic styling from that period, especially the 1950's.

A great used watch (from amongst a handful of companies) is also a great investment. You can wear the watch for years and then sell it for more than you paid -- or you can pass it on to your heirs.

Based on my experience, you will get the best bargains on ebay. Whenever I walked into a pawn shop or a high-end watch shop, I would always laugh at the asking prices. The prices were so high, I would not even try to negotiate. They ask top dollar. Just use the stores to handle the watches and determine what you like. Then buy elsewhere and use the savings on a flight to Europe.

Select a make and model that you like, determine a low-ball price, set an auto-alert on ebay, place your top bid by snipe, and let the price come to you. I never bought a watch on ebay without a $1,000 profit built into the deal. Buying in this manner is just like buying a stock or other investment. Determine the price of a good deal. Then let the price come to you.

If you buy on ebay, set about $300 aside for an overhaul from a local watchmaker. There are many scam artists on ebay, so exercise caution. The best deals come from private parties who want to unload a family heirloom or someone who needs quick money.

A rule of thumb is that a used watch in excellent condition will cost about half the price of a new one. So, a watch that retails for $12,000 and is commonly available new for $10,000 will cost about $5,000 used. So, nabbing one at $4,000 is an excellent deal. That applies to premium watch brands (Patek, Breguet, Audemars, Vacheron, Rolex, etc.). Other watches will not necessarily hold their value as well.

BTW: I hate the Rolex watch style. They are very well engineered. I would wear one if I climbed K2 or went to the moon. But IMO they are big, chunky, and bulky. They hold their value because of EXTREME marketing that has established the company in the minds of the masses as a rich man's watch. The De Beers of watches.

Rolex produces more watches in one year than Patek has manufactured since the founding of the company in the 1851. Patek holds almost all the major auction house records. During the last financial crisis, the value of Rolex watches at auction took a hit, but Patek values held. Patek Philippe has had the Calatrava line of watches in production since 1932 (different varieties).

An old adage: "A man who wants to look rich wears a Rolex. A man who is rich wears a Patek Philippe." lol

If you are buying on ebay how do you make sure you aren't buying a fake?

That is a difficult question to answer, because it involves so many different variables. First, you need to determine whether you are dealing with an honest seller. If so, then you are not dealing with someone who will knowingly sell you a fake. There is plenty of information on-line about how to spot scam artists on ebay.

Second, stay away from brands that are heavily faked, such as Rolex. There are probably more fake Rolex watches on-line than all other watch manufacturers combined. Just staying away from Rolex dramatically cuts down on the probability of buying a fake.

Third, you need to know the product. The movement is the heart of the watch, so if you have a photograph of the movement from a book or from the web and compare it to the seller's watch then you know that you have the genuine article.

An ebay seller may balk at opening the watch case, which is certainly understandable. So ask them to take it to any jeweler and have the case opened. Most jewelers will do that for free -- or for a few dollars. Then the seller can photograph the movement.

Bear in mind that I am talking about watches that sell used for maybe $3,000 and up. Not the average watch worth a few hundred dollars.

A funny story: I bought a watch from a young guy who bought a watch with an 18k watch band at a flea market. He made the purchase only because he realized that the watch band was 18k gold. He did not think that the watch itself was worth much. He listed it on ebay and watched the price rocket far beyond his expectations. It was a Patek Philippe 18k automatic from the early 1960's. I bought that watch from him for a little over $5,000 and then learned the story behind it. I sold it a few years later for about $8,000. I sold the 18k watch band separately for about $500 (I cannot remember the exact price). That guy was absolutely ecstatic. With an extra five grand in his pocket, it probably made his year. It was a nice watch!

Post: #104

For all you Rolex haters, if the Submariner was good enough for The Man, it's good enough for me

Post: #105

I am digging this anti-magnetic Rolex. Green tinted crystal, check out the second hand. Never owned a Rolex.



http://www.rolex.com/watches/milgauss/m1...-0001.html

Post: #106

I wear the Milgauss quite often. Can't beat the lightning second hand. The green tint is in-your-face, and the watch is excellent overall. Pretty thin, too. Definitely gets the puss.

Post: #107

I use a silver Daniel Wellington with a black strap. I also have a Vostok from WWI and another from WWII that were my grandfather's and great grandfather's. I have a skeleton Fossil, but I'm going more minimalist these days. A Timex Weekender with a few different Zulu straps and another one for hiking and shit.

Post: #108

(12-15-2013 10:51 PM)CaliforniaSupreme Wrote:  I wear the Milgauss quite often. Can't beat the lightning second hand. The green tint is in-your-face, and the watch is excellent overall. Pretty thin, too. Definitely gets the puss.

Can you wear it all around like a submariner or a seamaster? in the pool/ocean, etc? It looks very cool, built for scientists at CERN. Also, if the green is very pronounced I might not like it, I think it would be cool if it were subtle like a gold iphone

Post: #109

I am a fan of the Rolex Explorer I. It is simple and understated but still would work with any style outfit. I also like that it doesn't have the bulky rotating bezel that most of the other Rolex's have. Leads to a cleaner look in my opinion.



I also like Omega Aqua Terra's

Post: #110

(12-15-2013 09:52 PM)MrXY Wrote:  For all you Rolex haters, if the Submariner was good enough for The Man, it's good enough for me

lol. That makes me want to buy a Rolex just like endorsements by Matt Damon, Denzel Washington, and Robert Redford made me want to vote for Obama.

Post: #111

(12-15-2013 10:55 PM)puckman Wrote:  

(12-15-2013 10:51 PM)CaliforniaSupreme Wrote:  I wear the Milgauss quite often. Can't beat the lightning second hand. The green tint is in-your-face, and the watch is excellent overall. Pretty thin, too. Definitely gets the puss.

Can you wear it all around like a submariner or a seamaster? in the pool/ocean, etc? It looks very cool, built for scientists at CERN. Also, if the green is very pronounced I might not like it, I think it would be cool if it were subtle like a gold iphone

It's relatively tough (it's a Rolex, after all), but I wouldn't use it as a diver or abuse piece. It's a dress/general wear watch, looks good when dressed up or down. The green color looks very unique, it's more obvious when looked at in direct sunlight from a side angle.

Good image I found:



E: Gopher- Dat last pic, the Seamaster, very very very nice watch. Clean yet elegant.

Post: #112

(12-16-2013 12:01 AM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  

(12-15-2013 09:52 PM)MrXY Wrote:  For all you Rolex haters, if the Submariner was good enough for The Man, it's good enough for me

That makes me want to buy a Rolex like endorsements by Matt Damon, Denzel Washington, and Robert Redford made me want to vote for Obama.

Damn. That is like pure, unfiltered, undistilled...

Post: #113

As a 40+ G, I shall dispense my advice. I never wore a watch until 1 year ago and now own 2 watches:

Panerai, PAM 432.
A. Lange, Lange 1

Understand I have a few bucks and for decades would not ever wear a watch. Did not own one. I am quite adept at reading people and seeing their non verbals etc. it's quite noticeable the effort people put into looking at your watch (men as well). Women over 25 go to great lengths to determine WTF my watch is when they are first chatting with me. As in "is it a baller watch". They're trying to discern if it is congruent with my lifestyle. It's a piece of the puzzle to them.

I think these watches are not well enough known that the girls generally don't know them but they know it looks "rich".

Panerai has ramped up the ads, so perhaps a few know. No girl knows WTF the Lange is, but they intensely check it out, not discreetly either. It's taken some time for me to adjust when men chat me up about them because they don't mean much to me, not being a watch geek.

My advice is to recognize the watch is a functional piece of men's jewelry. I suggest a watch you appreciate which is within your budget. I don't think the youngest women will differentiate much between these watches. Over 25, it is a signal they check closely for affluence.

I think these metal Rolexes and such look a bit whack, but they are classic and "accepted" by most. An overall positive signal and not likely to hurt your impression with any woman. It's damn few women playing in the serious Patek leagues... at least the big dollar Pateks.

Personal style, baby!

Post: #114

(12-16-2013 12:17 AM)Vino Tech Wrote:  A. Lange, Lange 1

Post: #115

(12-16-2013 12:01 AM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  

(12-15-2013 09:52 PM)MrXY Wrote:  For all you Rolex haters, if the Submariner was good enough for The Man, it's good enough for me

lol. That makes me want to buy a Rolex just like endorsements by Matt Damon, Denzel Washington, and Robert Redford made me want to vote for Obama.

McQueen didn't endorse Rolex. He endorsed TAG Heuer but didn't actually wear them...He wore a Rolex Submariner 5512.

Post: #116

(12-16-2013 03:07 AM)Gopher Wrote:  

(12-16-2013 12:01 AM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  

(12-15-2013 09:52 PM)MrXY Wrote:  For all you Rolex haters, if the Submariner was good enough for The Man, it's good enough for me

lol. That makes me want to buy a Rolex just like endorsements by Matt Damon, Denzel Washington, and Robert Redford made me want to vote for Obama.

McQueen didn't endorse Rolex. He endorsed TAG Heuer but didn't actually wear them...He wore a Rolex Submariner 5512.

That was an analogy. In other words, I am not buying a watch simply because someone famous wore it.

BTW: Steve McQueen's TAG Heuer sold for $800k in 2012. He did wear them in the movies. Damn ugly watch.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/arieladams/2...e-mcqueen/

That is also the same model that Jesse gave to Walt as a present in "Breaking Bad." That fact did not slip past me! Once a watch guy, always a watch guy.

Post: #117

Yea, that was an ugly watch. What was it, the Monaco? I agree with you too that just because someone you like wore it doesn't mean it's for you...for instance I would look like a tard if I walked around wearing the persol sunglasses McQueen wore.

That said, I don't find anything wrong with a no date submariner. It's a solid all around watch.

Post: #118

I like the Monaco.

Post: #119

(12-15-2013 11:33 PM)Gopher Wrote:  I am a fan of the Rolex Explorer I. It is simple and understated but still would work with any style outfit. I also like that it doesn't have the bulky rotating bezel that most of the other Rolex's have. Leads to a cleaner look in my opinion.



I also like Omega Aqua Terra's

I've been feeling the aqua terra for a while now with the rose gold in the bezel and the rose gold center links on the braclet. they have a modle now with dimonds all up in it but I think that's going just a little far for my taste.

Post: #120

(12-16-2013 12:52 PM)bars Wrote:  I like the Monaco.

Tag Heuer introduced that model in 1969, so many people do. A man's taste in watches is highly subjective, just like their taste in women.

Post: #121

I would gladly sport a Monaco.

Patek Philippe maybe the best watch but most gals wont know the name.

Rolex is still the gold standard, say what you want about the label.

Post: #122

(12-16-2013 07:23 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  I would gladly sport a Monaco.

Patek Philippe maybe the best watch but most gals wont know the name.

Rolex is still the gold standard, say what you want about the label.

Not at all. The gold standard is defined as: "the supreme example of something against which others are judged or measured."

As in most things, reality is quite different than the delusion under which the masses operate. Ask 100 people on the street "what is the gold standard of watches?" Probably all 100 will reply "Rolex," because of the Rolex marketing hype. They will probably know no other names of high end watch producers.

But ask any high-end jewelers, watch collectors, and especially auction house specialists that same question. Over ninety percent will answer "Patek Philippe," because of its patented innovations over the past 150 years, its cutting edge complicated movements, and the resulting auction records. Probably not one of a hundred would mention Rolex as the gold standard.

Quote:The record for the most expensive watch ever sold at auction goes to Patek Philippe for a historic complicated pocket watch (the Graves Supercomplication from 1933) that sold for about $11 million in 1999. In the last few years we’ve see the Patek Philippe “Eric Clapton” ref. 2499 go for about $3.6 million, and many other rare Patek Philippe watches see from $500,000 to easily over $1,000,000 at auction.

For example, here is a recent auction where the price paid for a single Patek Philippe yielded 58% of the entire auction proceeds.

Quote:The Only Watch 2013 auction event yielded a total of 5,066,000 Euros. An impressive figure, but it is important to note that 2,950,000 Euros of that (about 58%) amount is due to just one watch – a Patek Philippe.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/arieladams/2...t-auction/

Now if you mean that Rolex represents the gold standard for impressing all those light-headed lizards, I will not disagree.

Post: #123

Tailgunner - I meant gold standard for the masses not the connoisseur.

Post: #124

My post about Mcqueen and the Submariner was actually a joke. I like the DateJust and the Explorers as well. That Milgauss is sweet too.

But you probably can't beat this for whorebait bling

Post: #125

(12-16-2013 09:15 PM)MrXY Wrote:  My post about Mcqueen and the Submariner was actually a joke. I like the DateJust and the Explorers as well. That Milgauss is sweet too.

REVERSAL!

Back it up, back it up!