You see... people here are like yeah I want some coins but I want them for 1 dollar so I can be a millionaire like the dude on the news.. Where as the Chinese.. They're fucking sharks. They're gonna hit this shit from every angle possible and ride it like a whore past out on an Indian train.

What they're doing and what they will come up with to manipulate the prices is unknown. By the time you find out it will be too late then you make a couple panic buys and sells...You're MF'n Digital toast.

We need a Chinese guy here. What will it take to draft one? How many white girls?

I got a text from my buddy that went "You made some money oh well that's what matters on to the next" After it went to 600 or so that one day. He himself is too cheap to buy because he "missed out"

Everyone might want to read this:

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2071100/3...t-yet.html

1. Bitcoins are easy to steal

2. Bitcoins are mainly owned by few powerful people who manipulate the price between their accounts at free will.

3. Because the buy/sell fees BTC are extremely low, the same people change between their mutiple accounts
Bitcoins at high prices, and in this way BTC makes the news...

4. Govs love bitcoins because it is the easiest kind of completely traceable money :
their open source public nature: all transactions stay in history
of the peer to peer system forever, easy to trace exactly the history
of what everyone bought and sold and from whom

Thinking about a sell this morning

This whole Chinese government saying FU to bitcoin has killed my bitcoin mojo

(12-12-2013 09:57 AM)chyamor Wrote:  This whole Chinese government saying FU to bitcoin has killed my bitcoin mojo

If all of China dumps just buy more coins Fuck them.

Despite the Chinese gov telling banks to steer clear of BTC, the news this week was favorable for BTC all week (in the West). If you'd check Fiatleak.com you'd see that the Chinese keep buying BTC in droves. They sure seem to want BTC.

http://www.entrepreneur.com/article/230346

"Once Wall Street starts putting money into Bitcoin -- we're talking about hundreds of millions, billions of dollars moving in -- it's going to have a pretty dramatic effect on the price."

Situation is still like written in post #1, don´t spend more than you can afford to lost. There is risk of loosing everything, as well as this can still go 10x in a year.

I wouldn´t sell unless you are experienced day trader or want to diversify your assets.

(12-12-2013 08:51 AM)fortyfor Wrote:  Everyone might want to read this:

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2071100/3...t-yet.html

1. Bitcoins are easy to steal

2. Bitcoins are mainly owned by few powerful people who manipulate the price between their accounts at free will.

3. Because the buy/sell fees BTC are extremely low, the same people change between their mutiple accounts
Bitcoins at high prices, and in this way BTC makes the news...

4. Govs love bitcoins because it is the easiest kind of completely traceable money :
their open source public nature: all transactions stay in history
of the peer to peer system forever, easy to trace exactly the history
of what everyone bought and sold and from whom

FF: That's NOT really news.. or even enlightening in any kind of way about the long term. The article just spouts off more misinformed propaganda attempting to scare people off of BTC. Those kinds of pieces are NOT going to really have any meaningful effect, b/c the real news is the widespread and increasing adoption that seems to be taking place...

(12-12-2013 09:37 AM)el mechanico Wrote:  Thinking about a sell this morning

So what is your price point? $900?

If you are selling, then that means that i should be preparing to buy within the next day or two... he he he... maybe at $500 or $600? I hope so... but I don't know... i cannot really see what is happening or going to happen.

And, I am still waiting for that PM from El Mech about the secret that he figured out... sssssshhhh... DONT say anything... its a secret.

(12-12-2013 11:19 AM)pants Wrote:  http://www.entrepreneur.com/article/230346

"Once Wall Street starts putting money into Bitcoin -- we're talking about hundreds of millions, billions of dollars moving in -- it's going to have a pretty dramatic effect on the price."

Situation is still like written in post #1, don´t spend more than you can afford to lost. There is risk of loosing everything, as well as this can still go 10x in a year.

I wouldn´t sell unless you are experienced day trader or want to diversify your assets.

Right on Pants..... this seems to be the real deal.... though I do hope that El Mech is correct and that the price drops in the coming weeks. Maybe the Chinese are following RVF postings to see whatever El Mech is gonna do..? that is why he is being so coy about his exact plans so he can stay one step ahead of them.

I did start to employ some of El Mechs tactics of selling small portions of my holdings on BTC-e, just to play around and to experiment with day trading... and I may have made .01 BTC over the last few days.. with a lot of buys and sells just to play it but it is really a risky proposition to sell BTC.. and if the price then bolts up in a quick unexpected way, then the guy who sold is screwed b/c it may never come back to the lower point... just like it seems very unlikely that we are ever going to see $200 again... so those guys who sold at $200 were screwed when they were attempting to get back into BTC at $500 or whatever... those gains will never be re-realized.... at least it seems, pretty unlikely that we are going back down to $200 (though possible.. and also possible, as you mention, Pants, that this BTC thing could go all the way down to zero... though i am having my doubts about that, given the increasing considerations of institutional adoption)

I got busy with my boat trailer and didn't do it. My secret I thought was the Chinese pump early like 5 to 6 am but maybe it's not a pattern can you check?

this BTC has ALL the tell tale signs of a huge bubble that will crash soon

(12-12-2013 02:45 PM)fortyfor Wrote:  this BTC has ALL the tell tale signs of a huge bubble that will crash soon

Can you elaborate?

And which of the tell tale signs are you referring to?

Do you have some specific knowledge of BTC or other kinds of investments? What's the comparison point? or just a feeling?

How long have you been studying BTC to inform us of such?

Currently, are you invested in BTC at all, or just observing the BTC mania on the sidelines by watching Peter Schiff or some other quasi-uninformed naysayer?

OK lets see if they pump around 6 today est

(12-12-2013 03:55 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  OK lets see if they pump around 6 today est

Pump means go up in my understanding.

BTC has been flat lined for nearly a full two days... except for that one quick dip incident in the middle of the night that I was worried about a day and a half ago... otherwise... BTC boringly flat in the mid $800s for two days.

HEADLINE:

"BTC almost stable and boring like a regular commodity."

Looks like the pump is early today

"this BTC has ALL the tell tale signs of a huge bubble that will crash soon"

BTC trolls, they're everywhere.

I'm starting a compendium of stupid bitcoin critiques that have been endlessly repeated (and refuted):
- It's a Bubble!
- It's a Ponzi scheme!
- It's a Pyramid scheme!
- Bitcoin will be like MySpace, surpassed by Facebook!
- Bitcoin is for criminals! (druglords! pedos! tax evaders! hackers! etc, etc.)
- Bitcoin is endlessly divisible, it's like fiat!
- Bitcoin has no intrinsic value!
- Bitcoins are created by the CIA!
- Bitcoin is not anonymous! It's in the blockchain!
- Bitcoin will go to zero!
- Bitcoins get stolen by hackers!
- Bitcoin is a scam!
- Bitcoin could be gone if the internet goes down!
- Bitcoins are deflationary, that will never work!
- Bitcoins will be outlawed!
- People hoard bitcoins!
- You can't spend bitcoins! It's useless!
- Bitcoin is inferior to gold, who needs it!
- Bitcoin is like Napster, something better will come!
- Bitcoin is not money!
- Bitcoin is a libertarian fantasy!
- Bitcoin is too volatile!
- Bitcoin is geek money!
- Bitcoin is a tulip mania!
- I like the idea of bitcoin, but their supporters put me off!
- Bitcoin is too expensive!
- Bitcoin is not backed by gold!
- Bitcoin is all speculation!
- People can endlessly copy bitcoin-protocol and make their own altcoins!

And on
And on
And on...
They go.

(12-12-2013 04:45 PM)Maciano Wrote:  "this BTC has ALL the tell tale signs of a huge bubble that will crash soon"

BTC trolls, they're everywhere.

I'm starting a compendium of stupid bitcoin critiques that have been endlessly repeated (and refuted):
- It's a Bubble!
- It's a Ponzi scheme!
- It's a Pyramid scheme!
- Bitcoin will be like MySpace, surpassed by Facebook!
- Bitcoin is for criminals! (druglords! pedos! tax evaders! hackers! etc, etc.)
- Bitcoin is endlessly divisible, it's like fiat!
- Bitcoin has no intrinsic value!
- Bitcoins are created by the CIA!
- Bitcoin is not anonymous! It's in the blockchain!
- Bitcoin will go to zero!
- Bitcoins get stolen by hackers!
- Bitcoin is a scam!
- Bitcoin could be gone if the internet goes down!
- Bitcoins are deflationary, that will never work!
- Bitcoins will be outlawed!
- People hoard bitcoins!
- You can't spend bitcoins! It's useless!
- Bitcoin is inferior to gold, who needs it!
- Bitcoin is like Napster, something better will come!
- Bitcoin is not money!
- Bitcoin is a libertarian fantasy!
- Bitcoin is too volatile!
- Bitcoin is geek money!
- Bitcoin is a tulip mania!
- I like the idea of bitcoin, but their supporters put me off!
- Bitcoin is too expensive!
- Bitcoin is not backed by gold!
- Bitcoin is all speculation!
- People can endlessly copy bitcoin-protocol and make their own altcoins!

And on
And on
And on...
They go.

Thanks for putting that list together. It's fairly comprehensive of the naysayer talking points.

Nonetheless, I do NOT have any problem(s) with discussing the various talking points b/c sometimes there are some potentially valid issues raised by the talking point; however, frequently it seems like a problem comes when the naysayer, merely states the talking point without providing any substance, except for merely stating the talking point.

Those kinds of talking points behavior seems to be more frequently occuring in politics, also, in recent years - forms of behavior to state various conclusions without really getting into substance. Then when you try to engage to get them into the substance, they either completely ignore you, provide distracting garbledy gook or provide more talking points without substance.

JayJuanGee

Indeed, good criticism is fine. Positive criticism even better, but you never see that on anything interesting these days. Whether it's gender diffs, food, workouts or economics, you keep hearing BS. When even The Economist, Financial Times, NYT & WashPo keep repeating stuff re bitcoin that even bloggers wouldn't dare repeating you have to wonder: are they lazy or are they stupid? I doubt the latter, so they're lazy. I don't think lazyness is an excuse for serious journalists. I have a job and can figure this stuff out, what's their excuse? They should be educating & informing me, not boring & annoying me.

Bitcoin is the real deal, this is not a hype, fad or mania of kooks. The protocol will be as big a deal to the (financial) services industry as the internet was for communication & filesharing. Journalists should be warned: BS on "geek money", "bubble", "tulips" or some other stupid shit will be costly for your future reputation.

ok, in detail:

1.
for 3 years 1 Bitcoin value was 0.0001 $ - 3 $

after 1 year, it is $ 1,000.00...

anyone who knows a little bit of economy, knows that this price is fully manipulated


2.
Bitcoin system it depends on so many things, it is not free and can be easily shutdown:

Ways to shut down Bitcoin are so many:

A. Just the same as torrents are blocked by ISPs almost everywhere all over Western Europe,
the same ISPs can block Bitcoin

B. The govs can just say that Bitcoins are illegal and confiscate billions of $ worth of them,
exactly the same as they did with Liberty reserve in may 2013 and E-gold as well

I could probably go on forever, and elaborate,
but the bubble mania and greed has taken many addcited...

And yes Bitcoin is not backed by anything, this is totally true,
and the staggering number of thousands of other digital currencies shows exactly
that anyone can start overnight his own digital "currency"

but always when these digital currencies get large, they are shut down and seized by the govs.

See Liberty reserve, E-gold and so on... the list is endless

fortyfor,

Another great thing about bitcoin vs. fiat: it's voluntary. So, what exactly is the problem? Stay away from the dangerous bubble. Save dollars, pesos, gold.

I'm not interested in debating you on this. Life's too short: I don't want to teach, I want to learn.

(12-12-2013 06:03 PM)fortyfor Wrote:  ok, in detail:

1.
for 3 years 1 Bitcoin value was 0.0001 $ - 3 $

after 1 year, it is $ 1,000.00...

anyone who knows a little bit of economy, knows that this price is fully manipulated


2.
Bitcoin system it depends on so many things, it is not free and can be easily shutdown:

Ways to shut down Bitcoin are so many:

A. Just the same as torrents are blocked by ISPs almost everywhere all over Western Europe,
the same ISPs can block Bitcoin

B. The govs can just say that Bitcoins are illegal and confiscate billions of $ worth of them,
exactly the same as they did with Liberty reserve in may 2013 and E-gold as well

I could probably go on forever, and elaborate,
but the bubble mania and greed has taken many addcited...

Ok then. When is the bubble going to burst?

(12-12-2013 06:03 PM)fortyfor Wrote:  ok, in detail:

1.
for 3 years 1 Bitcoin value was 0.0001 $ - 3 $

after 1 year, it is $ 1,000.00...

anyone who knows a little bit of economy, knows that this price is fully manipulated

Fortyfor:

Thanks for further detail, though you are still talking in conclusions and really NOT backing up any of your points, very well.

Who is manipulating the price?

(12-12-2013 06:03 PM)fortyfor Wrote:  2.
Bitcoin system it depends on so many things, it is not free and can be easily shutdown:

Ways to shut down Bitcoin are so many:

A. Just the same as torrents are blocked by ISPs almost everywhere all over Western Europe,
the same ISPs can block Bitcoin

B. The govs can just say that Bitcoins are illegal and confiscate billions of $ worth of them,
exactly the same as they did with Liberty reserve in may 2013 and E-gold as well

I could probably go on forever, and elaborate,
but the bubble mania and greed has taken many addcited...

You may be correct that the US Govt may attempt such, and even if the Govt is NOT completely successful in shutting down BTC, these kinds of tactics would definitely lower the value and/or utility of BTC. I am NOT so certain that the govt is going to pull such trigger, at least NOT in the short term.. Bitcoin is also different from E-Gold and Liberty.

(12-12-2013 06:05 PM)fortyfor Wrote:  And yes Bitcoin is not backed by anything, this is totally true,

It seems to be backed by protocol and math and open source and limits and a bunch of geeks.

(12-12-2013 06:05 PM)fortyfor Wrote:  and the staggering number of thousands of other digital currencies shows exactly
that anyone can start overnight his own digital "currency"

Yes, there are copy cats, and potential one or more of the competitors could oust BTC – NOT sure about that.

(12-12-2013 06:05 PM)fortyfor Wrote:  but always when these digital currencies get large, they are shut down and seized by the govs.

See Liberty reserve, E-gold and so on... the list is endless

You are repeating yourself and running out of steam. Certainly, you seem to be talking in conclusions and you do NOT have a lot of facts or experience to back up what you are saying. You do however, have a couple of talking points, but you sound like a naysayer without any real sound foundation for your doomsday prediction regarding BTC.

(12-12-2013 06:16 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  Ok then. When is the bubble going to burst?

He doesn’t really know anything, so why does it matter what he predicts? O.k.. FortyFor… entertain us, when is BTC going to burst because each of us is going to need to know when to get out? How long will it take? Actually, guys have been saying this BTC is a bubble for about a year, and it keeps going up and more infrastructure is being built around BTC…

Price being heavily manipulated on Pump and Dump classic scheme:

http://www.businessinsider.com/927-peopl...ns-2013-12


Euforia is now for all bitcoin owners because they think they are rich without any work.
truth is: too few will manage to sell at $ 1000 per BTC, until the price crashes down back to 1 $ - $ 9

http://www.coinion.com/2013/12/11/child-...s-exposed/


Bitcoin euforic fans: “You can send large sums of money across the world almost for free, that’s real value”

Don’t fool yourself. If you find Bitcoin useful because it allows you to make cheap long distance payments, or conduct business anonymously (given the extra precautions), you are not being a Consumer of bitcoin, but a Trader, if in a roundabout way. You will not be trading with any Consumers, but other Greater Fool Traders.

Also remember that you are being charged heavily when you exchange bitcoins for real money,
so the total costs commissions and fees are actually very high.

And also, a cashless society would certainly give governments unprecedented access to information and power over citizens.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101266173

(12-13-2013 07:02 AM)fortyfor Wrote:  Price being heavily manipulated on Pump and Dump classic scheme:

http://www.businessinsider.com/927-peopl...ns-2013-12


Euforia is now for all bitcoin owners because they think they are rich without any work.
truth is: too few will manage to sell at $ 1000 per BTC, until the price crashes down back to 1 $ - $ 9

http://www.coinion.com/2013/12/11/child-...s-exposed/


Bitcoin euforic fans: “You can send large sums of money across the world almost for free, that’s real value”

Don’t fool yourself. If you find Bitcoin useful because it allows you to make cheap long distance payments, or conduct business anonymously (given the extra precautions), you are not being a Consumer of bitcoin, but a Trader, if in a roundabout way. You will not be trading with any Consumers, but other Greater Fool Traders.

Also remember that you are being charged heavily when you exchange bitcoins for real money,
so the total costs commissions and fees are actually very high.

And also, a cashless society would certainly give governments unprecedented access to information and power over citizens.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101266173

FortyFor:

Even though I don't agree with your prediction and I find it a bit extreme for you to be characterizing current investors as "fools," I do appreciate you providing articles (sources) to back up your various claims.

(Edit: After writing my comment, i looked at your three articles. The first is pretty good, and provides useful information to bolster your assertions. It does show distribution that is fairly centralized for a currency, though it is NOT really very centralized if it were considered to be the value of a major company.. but your point is fairly well expressed in that article. Your second article is a joke piece, and should NOT be cited for serious reference unless you are commenting about some humorous aspect of BTC. Your third article is a bit of a fear mongering article, and the title of it gives that away... referring to BTC taking away our freedoms - run of the mill fear tactic).



Still, with your various criticisms and sources for such criticisms, you have NOT informed us, more or less, when BTC is going to crash b/c I get the sense that guys would like to know that, in order that they would be able to get out, prior to such crashing event.

In the meantime, some guys have 4-5 times the amount of value that they had a few months ago. Some of these guys have cashed out to get back their initial investment, but several remain fairly bullish in their thinking about BTC (fools?). Actually just in the Month of November we had more than a 5 times upward adjustment of BTC that readjusted downward a little bit. Others such as me, are only recently getting into BTC, so I have been buying during the recent highs.

In any event, can you provide some rationale concerning when we should get out? Maybe you are suggesting, now? or should we try to milk BTC a little more?