Post: #1

What's a good look for us short fellas? I notice that stripped shirts look teenagerish on me. I'm 5'7 and am redoing my look. Taller gents have more options.
I don 't want have that 'trying too yard's look with a suit everyday when I don't have the lifestyle that equates it.
Any ideas..I am aware it's how you wear the clothes but some things just don't look right on a guy who is 5'7.


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Post: #2

it all depends on ur body type, cultural/regional norms, ethnicity, your build, and the style you're going for.

there's no one-size fits all.

you could probably get a magazine like GQ, XXL, whatever that define the group u most identify with & copy what u see in the ads.

then look for sales.

Post: #3

What's your body type?

I actually just started a clothing line for fit guys (10" drop or more) and a side gig for shorter guys (I'm 5'8").

Here's my tricks:
1. Lose weight. Get that waist down to 29".
2. Bulk your chest. I just work out 3 days a week for 10 minutes or less and I got my chest from a 36" to a 40" in just 12 weeks. Bench presses, push-ups, pull-ups, chin-ups.
3. Get your shirts tailored, if not out-right bespoken. That means darting in the back, and a nice tapered inverse-pyramind shape overall.
4. Avoid patterns. No flannels, no plaids, no horizontal stripes -- patterns give you a shorter appearance.
5. Flat front pants, no pleats. If you get your pants tailored (I even tailor my jeans) have the foot cuff hemmed INSIDE instead of out. Removing horizontals helps.
6. As much as you may hate it, tucking that shirt in actually helps give the appearance of height -- bespoke clothes here are the only answer, though, because off-the-rack clothes look terrible tucked. If you don't want to tuck, have your tailor bring the bottom hem of all shirts up so it's just a few inches over your belt instead of 6".
7. Dress shirts will make you appear taller than T-shirts (vertical line down the middle, long sleeves).
8. I don't wear lifts or elevators, but all of my dress shoes (all I wear) have a good solid heel. It's only 1" or so, but it's there.

To be honest, height is not a deal breaker. One of my main plates is taller than me, I'm the shortest guy she's ever dated, and we've been awesome for 2+ years. If you carry yourself well, act confident and live confidently, the height thing will go away.

Yes, being 6'2" is amazing (my brother is 6'3" and my closest friend is 6'4" and women open them constantly, just on height alone), but it's not required.

Short guys also do well in any performance role: DJ, musician, etc. Try moonlighting with a band or learning to spin records -- you'd be amazed how many Chicago and London DJs are 5'6".

Post: #4

^^^

(04-09-2012 06:06 PM)ABDada Wrote:  6. As much as you may hate it, tucking that shirt in actually helps give the appearance of height -- bespoke clothes here are the only answer, though, because off-the-rack clothes look terrible tucked. If you don't want to tuck, have your tailor bring the bottom hem of all shirts up so it's just a few inches over your belt instead of 6".

I usually leave my button-down shirts untucked, and since I have a relatively short torso, the shirt hangs way below my beltline. I had no idea that contributed to a shorter appearance.

How much would you expect tailors to charge for bringing the bottom hem up? Would you suggest 3" overhang at the front and back (longest parts of the shirt tail)?

Post: #5

(04-09-2012 09:09 PM)assman Wrote:  I usually leave my button-down shirts untucked, and since I have a relatively short torso, the shirt hangs way below my beltline. I had no idea that contributed to a shorter appearance.

It depends on your physique. If you have a spare tire, by all means leave it untucked -- it'll make you appear slimmer.

If you have an inverted pyramid (i.e., large drop), get that shirt tailored up perfectly (I recommend going 96% cotton 4% stretch) and tuck -- tucking gives your legs a longer appearance. Try it with your camera phone in the mirror and compare from the same distance.

(04-09-2012 09:09 PM)assman Wrote:  How much would you expect tailors to charge for bringing the bottom hem up? Would you suggest 3" overhang at the front and back (longest parts of the shirt tail)?

I have an awesome tailor in Chicago and another great one in Lauderdale, and both of them give me discounts for not being pushy -- i.e., I don't demand my items in a day or a week but when they slow down. Usually it's 1-2 weeks turnaround, but could be longer during prom and wedding seasons. I typically pay $15 to have my off-the-rack shirts taken in, darted, and the hem raised, but that's about half-price. I know that Nordstrom Rack (the outlet) offers discount tailoring if you buy shirts there, too.

The reason I'm starting my clothing line is because I have a contact in Mumbai, India who is going to offer me "off the rack" clothes but sized for fit and/or shorter guys, something that is greatly lacking in the States.

For me, there are 3 brands that offer shirts that fit, but still need tailoring. It's a nightmare to dress.

My closet is pretty sparse though because most of my clothes are bespoke AND designed to work together. A lot depends on how you dress, though: I prefer tailored soft jeans, dress shirts and dress shoes, and throw a jacket or a vest in here and there, depending on the people I'm with.

Post: #6

Shit -- forgot to ask: what's your budget look like? What do you usually spend on shirts, pants, shoes? I can make recommendations for brands I know will work for a shorter guy.

Post: #7

By drop, I assume you're talking suit sizes. I have an 8" drop there. I buy fitted shirts, but yeah, even those could stand some tailoring.

Good call on not pressing the tailor on time. I'm in no rush.

Any thoughts on amount of overhang? I'm guessing 3-4" at the front and back, so that the sides of the shirt still cover the belt.

Also, while I'm at it, does it make sense to have the hem shape altered so the curves are a little more shallow between the shorter sides and longer front and back? Not sure if that makes sense, but basically a hem shape that is in between (1) the stock shape and (2) perfectly even all around.

Budget is variable - I spend less when I don't think it fits really well. But willing to spend more if it's something I think isn't too trendy (and will be dated soon), is quality and will last, and fits really well. So yeah, drop those names on me. Short, skinny, but fit-ish, like I said 8" drop.

Post: #8

(04-09-2012 09:26 PM)assman Wrote:  By drop, I assume you're talking suit sizes. I have an 8" drop there. I buy fitted shirts, but yeah, even those could stand some tailoring.

Correct, basically what is your chest measurement and what is your waist measurement (navel, not hips) -- that's close to your drop. 8" is solid, considering that most guys lately have a negative 6" drop, heh.

(04-09-2012 09:26 PM)assman Wrote:  Good call on not pressing the tailor on time. I'm in no rush.

Foreign tailors (I'm not race trolling here) are alphas -- you have to out-alpha them to get a discount. Good practice, actually. You CAN get a discount, usually, but some tailors are ridiculously busy year round, so if you find one you love, accept the price.

(04-09-2012 09:26 PM)assman Wrote:  Any thoughts on amount of overhang? I'm guessing 3-4" at the front and back, so that the sides of the shirt still cover the belt.

Do you wear belts? Do you wear your jeans low-rise or medium-rise? Do you wear boot cut bottoms or straight cut? Do you wear baggy or fitted jeans? Are your sleeves usually short or long? Do you tend to wear sport coats or just as-is?

All of my dress shirts are tailored for the complete ensemble -- my dress shirts that I tend to wear with suits or vests tend to be longer, whereas my casual dress shirts that I wear in summer are longer since I leave them out and wear them with low-rise jeans.

(04-09-2012 09:26 PM)assman Wrote:  Also, while I'm at it, does it make sense to have the hem shape altered so the curves are a little more shallow between the shorter sides and longer front and back? Not sure if that makes sense, but basically a hem shape that is in between (1) the stock shape and (2) perfectly even all around.

Absolutely makes sense. Most of my shirt mids are very close in length to my sides, actually, but I ask for that.

Unfortunately, it may take you 5+ tailored shirts before you find the fit you like. I lost about 5% body fat and gained about 10# in muscle in the past year, so NOTHING I've tailored fits me, and my tailor can't fix older shirts because my chest is bigger now.

If you follow my numbered list above, follow it in order -- get fit FIRST, get to your ideal weight, and THEN go and tailor shirts and jeans. If you don't, you'll be throwing money into the toilet.

Post: #9

(04-09-2012 09:31 PM)ABDada Wrote:  

(04-09-2012 09:26 PM)assman Wrote:  Any thoughts on amount of overhang? I'm guessing 3-4" at the front and back, so that the sides of the shirt still cover the belt.

Do you wear belts? Do you wear your jeans low-rise or medium-rise? Do you wear boot cut bottoms or straight cut? Do you wear baggy or fitted jeans? Are your sleeves usually short or long? Do you tend to wear sport coats or just as-is?

All of my dress shirts are tailored for the complete ensemble -- my dress shirts that I tend to wear with suits or vests tend to be longer, whereas my casual dress shirts that I wear in summer are longer since I leave them out and wear them with low-rise jeans.

With the button-down shirts I wear untucked, I usually pair them with medium-rise bootcut jeans, belt and boots. The jeans cut is fitted I suppose; definitely not very relaxed or baggy, but not skinny jean tight either. Shirts are long sleeve. Sometimes worn with a blazer, sometimes without.

(04-09-2012 09:31 PM)ABDada Wrote:  Absolutely makes sense. Most of my shirt mids are very close in length to my sides, actually, but I ask for that.

Cool. I've always hated how the mids are so much longer than the sides. Now's my chance to fix that!

(04-09-2012 09:31 PM)ABDada Wrote:  Unfortunately, it may take you 5+ tailored shirts before you find the fit you like. I lost about 5% body fat and gained about 10# in muscle in the past year, so NOTHING I've tailored fits me, and my tailor can't fix older shirts because my chest is bigger now.

The first thing I want to do is shorten the hems of my existing shirts. That will be a lot of bang for the buck since I already own the shirts and since they are fitted, the fit is decent (although tailored would be better).

As to budget, I updated my prior post to include that, but you were already typing up a response to that post before my edit went through, so here it is:

(04-09-2012 09:26 PM)assman Wrote:  Budget is variable - I spend less when I don't think it fits really well. But willing to spend more if it's something I think isn't too trendy (and will be dated soon), is quality and will last, and fits really well. So yeah, drop those names on me. Short, skinny, but fit-ish, like I said 8" drop.

Post: #10

(04-09-2012 09:45 PM)assman Wrote:  With the button-down shirts I wear untucked, I usually pair them with medium-rise bootcut jeans, belt and boots. The jeans cut is fitted I suppose; definitely not very relaxed or baggy, but not skinny jean tight either. Shirts are long sleeve. Sometimes worn with a blazer, sometimes without.

Good -- the fitted look is the best on a shorter, fit man. My tailor in Chicago is hilarious, he even tailors my jeans to show off my package -- no charge.

Since you wear a belt, you actually can get away with having your shirt taken up quite a bit more so it's just over the belt (hidden), but when you sit, the belt is visible. If you sit and your belt is still hidden, your shirt is too long. Note that on a billowing fat-fit shirt, too short will be bad news, your skin will show.

This is also where a 4% stretch material helps a lot. Nordstrom's Calibrate Stretch line is great for that, and they can be found relatively cheap ($30 at Rack).

(04-09-2012 09:45 PM)assman Wrote:  Cool. I've always hated how the mids are so much longer than the sides. Now's my chance to fix that!

That's because most guys are fat, dude. Even ones who are "slim fit" are still fat. It's fucking disgusting, but that's one area guys with game can set themselves higher than the standard, again.

(04-09-2012 09:45 PM)assman Wrote:  The first thing I want to do is shorten the hems of my existing shirts. That will be a lot of bang for the buck since I already own the shirts and since they are fitted, the fit is decent (although tailored would be better).

Ask how much extra to dart the backs, if they're not darted already. That can actually help make a better fit on the chest area.

(04-09-2012 09:26 PM)assman Wrote:  Budget is variable - I spend less when I don't think it fits really well. But willing to spend more if it's something I think isn't too trendy (and will be dated soon), is quality and will last, and fits really well. So yeah, drop those names on me. Short, skinny, but fit-ish, like I said 8" drop.

I've been meaning to do a blog post on budget, I'd be happy to cross post some key elements here at a later date.

A man can get by with 10 dress shirts total ($500 total online, maybe less, for fully tailored cut-and-sew), 3 slacks ($300 total online) and 3 jeans (up to $450 online) all tailored. It's still a lot for most guys, so what I recommend they do is hit Nordstrom Rack if you have one, or regular Nordstrom and look for the 60-70% clearance rack. Buy the cheapest shirt that fits loose and have their in-house tailor fix it up. I have the budget to afford pricey, but I've walked out of those stores dropping as little as $35 on a fully tailored shirt, including the shirt. It's a matter of finding a style.

For my skin tone (I'm half Hindu half Polack), I just wear charcoals, dark maroon reds and baby blues, and that's my entire wardrobe. No patterns, NO STRIPES. Patterns and stripes draw attention to your chest, and that makes you look smaller. Instead, work on lighter jeans (not too dark blue denim) as that will draw attention to your seemingly long legs. You don't need many shirts, just enough to make it to the next laundry session (I dry clean).

Post: #11

tallmenshoes.com

Post: #12

(04-09-2012 09:55 PM)ABDada Wrote:  Good -- the fitted look is the best on a shorter, fit man. My tailor in Chicago is hilarious, he even tailors my jeans to show off my package -- no charge.

(04-09-2012 09:55 PM)ABDada Wrote:  Since you wear a belt, you actually can get away with having your shirt taken up quite a bit more so it's just over the belt (hidden), but when you sit, the belt is visible. If you sit and your belt is still hidden, your shirt is too long. Note that on a billowing fat-fit shirt, too short will be bad news, your skin will show.

Great, that's a good guideline on how much I can get it taken up.

(04-09-2012 09:55 PM)ABDada Wrote:  This is also where a 4% stretch material helps a lot. Nordstrom's Calibrate Stretch line is great for that, and they can be found relatively cheap ($30 at Rack).

Will check it out. Any other names/lines I should check out?

(04-09-2012 09:55 PM)ABDada Wrote:  Ask how much extra to dart the backs, if they're not darted already. That can actually help make a better fit on the chest area.

Darting the backs just means taking it in around the low back area, right?

Do you have a style blog?

(04-09-2012 09:55 PM)ABDada Wrote:  For my skin tone (I'm half Hindu half Polack), I just wear charcoals, dark maroon reds and baby blues, and that's my entire wardrobe. No patterns, NO STRIPES. Patterns and stripes draw attention to your chest, and that makes you look smaller. Instead, work on lighter jeans (not too dark blue denim) as that will draw attention to your seemingly long legs. You don't need many shirts, just enough to make it to the next laundry session (I dry clean).

Interesting. Never really paid much attention to skin tone and shirt color. And I have lots of patterned and striped shirts, lol. There is much to learn, I see.

Post: #13

(04-09-2012 11:04 PM)assman Wrote:  Great, that's a good guideline on how much I can get it taken up.

Just remember to tell them that you wear your shirts exposed versus tucked -- tucked shirts need a bit of a deeper length for "bite".

(04-09-2012 11:04 PM)assman Wrote:  Will check it out. Any other names/lines I should check out?

I've been pretty lucky with EXPRESS-1MX Fitted Stretch (they're pretty bright vibrant colors, though) -- almost fits without tailoring and the arm holes are tailored high for tight fit, DKNY Fitted Stretch (great length, arms are loose as hell), and some of the Emporio Armani line (I wear this almost exclusively because most of their euro-trash style fits me well and looks unique in the States).

I avoid Giorgio Armani itself (tall men) but I've been getting fucking lucky with Armani Collezioni (that's their top line) -- I picked up some one-of-a-kind pieces from a trunk sale this past winter that were made for a catwalk showcase and one of the models was literally my size to the 1/2" measurement. Got me a $7000 winter coat (in metallic gold, ha) for a price I can't disclose, but cheaper than anything I found at Nordstrom new. Fit out the door.

I'm going to Vegas this weekend just to shop at the EA store there, I'll report back if I see anything this season -- last spring was all "loose" fit for whatever reason.

(04-09-2012 11:04 PM)assman Wrote:  Darting the backs just means taking it in around the low back area, right?

Darting is when they take in the shoulder blades on down a bit, two separate lines straight down the back. It pulls in the area under the chest better, and firms up the back. I've had younger women open me by saying "Wow, your back looks powerful" more than a few times. It's all in the darting, I still carry some back fat which drives me insane.

I used to be a fat fucker when I was married -- about 60# heavier, ten + years ago.

(04-09-2012 11:04 PM)assman Wrote:  Do you have a style blog?

I do but it's being worked on -- my hope for this year was to do it in video format; since I travel a lot, I can hit up my friends in other countries and show off some before and after shots. Video really makes a difference. I just picked up a nice $2000 video setup 3 weeks ago, so with luck and some practice, my ugly mug will be on YouTube in a month or so with some examples.

(04-09-2012 11:04 PM)assman Wrote:  Interesting. Never really paid much attention to skin tone and shirt color. And I have lots of patterned and striped shirts, lol. There is much to learn, I see.

Most guys don't think about color -- and we all think that peacocking with bright patterns and stripes will be attractive, but it can work against you if you're not 6'0" -- those clothes are picked for "every man" and they generally aren't thinking about guys who aren't 5'10" or taller, unfortunately.

The next time you NEED some clothes, try picking up a charcoal if you're naturally tan (in winter, even), pick up an olive if you're black, pick up something baby blue or yellow if you're green skinned (Latin/Italian) or pick up something ivory-beige or tan if you're light skinned, no patterns no stripes, and add a lighter pair of fitted jeans to it. You'd be surprised what a difference the right color shirts can make to giving you a tall appearance. I regularly meet people from Facebook and my blogs when I travel (every trip, actually), and they're always shocked that I'm not 6'3".

There's a fantastic shop in California called Jimmy Au's that is likely outside most people's price range, but if you ever make it out to Beverly Hills, go over there to look around. Au has focused on men 5'8" and shorter for over 50 years and they're used to "window" shoppers. Amazing, amazing, amazing designs -- he's the ONLY designer that designs collars for shorter guys, shoulders and even the suit lapels are perfect. $125 for an off-the-rack shirt, plus $30-$50 for tailoring. Ouch, but worth it.

Post: #14

With all due respect I think u dudes are overestimating the importance of clothes to pickup.

Yes, it's important to look good - better than the average guy, but bespoke clothes is a little too far unless you're living on 6 figures a year.

I mean, look at Roosh. The guy looks like a caveman and doesn't dress that much differently but I'd say he does alright with the ladies

I think too many people look at clothes as a way to cover up a flabby or anorexic build. The clothes are only going to look as good as the figure that you drape it on.

Post: #15

(04-09-2012 11:47 PM)HiFlo Wrote:  With all due respect I think u dudes are overestimating the importance of clothes to pickup.

I think I mentioned that in my initial response -- and I agree, but...

(04-09-2012 11:47 PM)HiFlo Wrote:  Yes, it's important to look good - better than the average guy, but bespoke clothes is a little too far unless you're living on 6 figures a year.

...there are times and places outside of dating and sex game that it makes a difference. Once you up your entrepreneurship game, you'll meet clientele who practically demand to see that you're at their level. Go to a thrift store, find something that doesn't look worn, buy it for $5 and get it tailored for $15 and you're 90% of the way there.

Also...

(04-09-2012 11:47 PM)HiFlo Wrote:  I mean, look at Roosh. The guy looks like a caveman and doesn't dress that much differently but I'd say he does alright with the ladies

...Roosh built his confidence and then owned it for who he is.

For other guys, when they know they're dressed well and showing off their best assets, they will LIVE that confidence.

Ever get your dirty car washed and waxed after 6 months and just feel more confident?

I don't need clothes for confidence, but when I wear good threads, I know I stand taller, I don't feel like I'm floating in my gear, and I subconsciously walk the walk a little more than I do in jeans and a T-shirt.

There's something to be said about a guy who not only buys his first suit but wears it to a function where it's required (not a wedding or a funeral).

Game is not only about picking up women. Game is not only about getting laid. Game is not only about how to keep your girlfriend or wife in line. Game is about confidence and raising the bar on others in your life as well -- business, friends, women, even family.

Step up your level, and you raise the price for access. Other people can keep up, or you can raise your standard, your billable rate, and the type of parties you get invited to. Mark it -- that's gold, Jerry, gold.

Post: #16

eh...when I read the OP I just got the distinct impression that OP is/will be using clothes as a crutch & as an excuse why his game isn't on par ("I can't approach her cause I'm not dressed good enough." "She didn't engage my opener because my tie is crooked"). And all the posts that followed were about the merits and benefits of bespoke clothes, and would further entrench him into using clothes as an excuse/crutch.

Post: #17

ABDada, awesome tips and explanations man, I appreciate it. If/when Roosh re-implements an updated rep system, I'm giving you props.

In the meantime, I'm giving you a candlelit dinner.


Let us know when you start putting videos up.

Post: #18

I'm 5'4 and women consistently open me more when I'm in my tailored suits and $400 shoes. It is what it is. No sense in fighting or denying it. It's like the fat girl who gets skinny when i have the suits on.

Is it required? No. But being 5'4, and muscular makes the suit all the more impressive. Most short guys are viewed as lesser quality. So we have to work a little bit harder on personality, money, clothes, attitude, and fitness. It is what it is