Post: #1

Just synthesizing some observations here:

Does anyone else notice how differently girls treat you when you're just some random stranger vs. when you're "vetted" in some way? Girls I have no connection with tend to be incredibly hostile. They avoid eye contact at all cost, and if you interact with them, seem to want nothing more than the quickest ejection possible. Quadruple that if the interaction occurs in a bar or club environment, where you may even be subject to completely unprovoked nastiness.

Yet girls can also be the warmest creatures on the planet. When a girl I'm seeing introduces me to her girlfriends, a male friend introduces me to his girlfriend, or with girls who work in close proximity, suddenly this attitude does a 180. The same girls who would've scoffed at me on the street now treat me like I'm a wonderful guy. Women are actually quite friendly and likable in this context, when they feel comfortable enough to let down their "bitch shields."

Whereas men aren't like this at all. I get the same exact vibe from men I meet in a "vetted" context vs. men who begin as random strangers. Seems like we're more willing to judge people for ourselves rather than rely on preselection.

Have others observed this as well? If so, is it a product of girls being naturally more tribalistic, or simply them fearing for their safety with unvetted strangers?

Post: #2

It sounds like you've discovered the concept of "social proof" - fairly elementary.

Post: #3

I sense something similar. In NZ girls are nowhere near as nasty as I believe US/Canada girls are, although they look quite a bit worse so I guess that balances out.

Instead of nastiness, I feel they don't "recognise" your value. Whenever I'm in a social circle situation, I'm treated as better than I am. Whenever I'm not, I'm treated as much worse(as in, they would prefer someone from their social circle who's worse to you).

I think in NZ this also applies to guys, but only in terms of socialisation for friendships/light connections. I think Kiwi guys have an effeminate and/or bogan mindset and like Roosh said in Bang Iceland, not very inviting to strangers, everything's about social circle. They don't really care about getting to know new people unless they are also social circle people.

Post: #4

While I find it rather tedious.
I'm rather accustomed to the uninviting, insecure attitude most young chicks display.

All the more reason why I 'SMH' at all the "strong, brave, independent" "you go girl" diatribe.

Retard, if you're so strong & brave, why is it when I walk past in broad daylight, you'll make every herculean effort to look the other way or to shove your face into your "smart" phone...?

Post: #5

Women are not men, they think differently. A man who doesn't know you see's you as competition or a friend. Not a true friend in the true sense of the word but friendly enough to have a laugh or be on similar terms.

The ultimate form of social proof is fame. Legions of women want to suck your dick and they compete for it and they were given an apt tag by US rappers: Thot. That Hoe Out There. You can project it to women who haven't even seen you in the flesh but because many women want you, so do they.

Some of the easiest lays you can have is through your friendhsip circles or sisters/cousin friends. Talk to them, flirt, don't act like a desperate fuck and you're in.

Post: #6

The difference is in the nature of the interaction. If she senses that there's any kind of romantic context, and she's a bitch, you'll get a bad response. But approach the same girl in a situation where she knows or thinks that it's going to be a nonromantic conversation, and there's no problem.

If you want a positive result every time, may I introduce to you : clipboard game. Just do what you would normally do, but holding a clipboard.

Post: #7

Women are hostile because if they were not so then they'd spend their entire lives fending off chumps that mistook a lack of hostility as an IOI.

I don't get hostility from strange women because I don't direct energy toward them. I treat them as though their existence is completely incidental to my life. Being married and getting my dick serviced every day sure helps, but it's not the only factor.

Hostile energy cannot be turned positive. Your best bet is to ignore them. Look over them. Look around them. Look through them. This can snap them out of their little mood and get their hamster back on the wheel.

Post: #8

(03-31-2017 10:43 PM)Tytalus Wrote:  It sounds like you've discovered the concept of "social proof" - fairly elementary.

More precisely, Delta is stating that there is a wide gender gap in that social proof concept, which is an interesting notion.

Post: #9

(04-01-2017 05:16 AM)Vladimir Poontang Wrote:  The difference is in the nature of the interaction. If she senses that there's any kind of romantic context, and she's a bitch, you'll get a bad response. But approach the same girl in a situation where she knows or thinks that it's going to be a nonromantic conversation, and there's no problem.

If you want a positive result every time, may I introduce to you : clipboard game. Just do what you would normally do, but holding a clipboard.

This is really interesting to hear, because it shows how different NZ is than whereever you are.

I've always found girls to generally be more receptive to me than the salesmen or guys/girls looking for donations or wanting to talk about stuff(religious or "activist" organisations etc). They find the latter annoying but find me interesting(or neutral).

Post: #10

(03-31-2017 10:05 PM)Delta Wrote:  Whereas men aren't like this at all. I get the same exact vibe from men I meet in a "vetted" context vs. men who begin as random strangers. Seems like we're more willing to judge people for ourselves rather than rely on preselection.

Preselection = other people make judgements for you.

You've got it. Women are followers, that's their nature. We live in a confused culture that tries to blur the facts of mens and womens differences, so it takes us time to realise them, hence the existence of Game.

I would like to add that how I'm received by women I don't know varies hugely based on my appearance that day. Hairstyle/clothing/physique can significantly improve womens 'default reaction' to you.

Post: #11

(04-01-2017 10:29 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  Women are hostile because if they were not so then they'd spend their entire lives fending off chumps that mistook a lack of hostility as an IOI.

I don't get hostility from strange women because I don't direct energy toward them. I treat them as though their existence is completely incidental to my life. Being married and getting my dick serviced every day sure helps, but it's not the only factor.

Hostile energy cannot be turned positive. Your best bet is to ignore them. Look over them. Look around them. Look through them. This can snap them out of their little mood and get their hamster back on the wheel.

Women of class know how to show a guy that she's not interested without being hostile. You should be able to look at them and show interest or at least curiosity without being attacked for it. But of course we don't live in a perfect world.

Certainly ignore women without class but you shouldn't have to go around with your head down in case you offend one of them by being a normal guy who likes women. It's sad when men feel that they have to act nonchalant. The best thing as with anything in life is to learn how to spot trash, avoid, and find a better environment. But still, wouldn't it be nice if one could just be oneself around western women, like once upon a time? Dysfunctionality is so toxic that it affects us all in some way. Best to jump on a plane and get away from it.

Post: #12

(04-01-2017 05:48 PM)Vladimir Poontang Wrote:  Women of class know how to show a guy that she's not interested without being hostile. You should be able to look at them and show interest or at least curiosity without being attacked for it. But of course we don't live in a perfect world.

Certainly ignore women without class but you shouldn't have to go around with your head down in case you offend one of them by being a normal guy who likes women. It's sad when men feel that they have to act nonchalant. The best thing as with anything in life is to learn how to spot trash, avoid, and find a better environment. But still, wouldn't it be nice if one could just be oneself around western women, like once upon a time? Dysfunctionality is so toxic that it affects us all in some way. Best to jump on a plane and get away from it.

Glad you're back

Post: #13

(04-01-2017 05:48 PM)Vladimir Poontang Wrote:  

(04-01-2017 10:29 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  Women are hostile because if they were not so then they'd spend their entire lives fending off chumps that mistook a lack of hostility as an IOI.

I don't get hostility from strange women because I don't direct energy toward them. I treat them as though their existence is completely incidental to my life. Being married and getting my dick serviced every day sure helps, but it's not the only factor.

Hostile energy cannot be turned positive. Your best bet is to ignore them. Look over them. Look around them. Look through them. This can snap them out of their little mood and get their hamster back on the wheel.

Women of class know how to show a guy that she's not interested without being hostile. You should be able to look at them and show interest or at least curiosity without being attacked for it. But of course we don't live in a perfect world.

Certainly ignore women without class but you shouldn't have to go around with your head down in case you offend one of them by being a normal guy who likes women. It's sad when men feel that they have to act nonchalant. The best thing as with anything in life is to learn how to spot trash, avoid, and find a better environment. But still, wouldn't it be nice if one could just be oneself around western women, like once upon a time? Dysfunctionality is so toxic that it affects us all in some way. Best to jump on a plane and get away from it.

They don't teach social skills these days fofc chicks. These chicks assume that every man is a rapist.

But in Montreal, chicks would smile at me. They gave off a pleasant vibe. If a chick didn't want to have sex, she would at least let me "sample" her body or flirt to a certain level.

Montreal is the party destination of North America, that chicks are bound to expect at least way more men on vacation than compared to other Canadian cities, but they aren't doing these "Toronto-ish women" behaviour such as:

1. Turning head sideways on the street.
2. Looking in Phone.
3. Putting on earplugs when seeing a man, even in proximity to a busy train railway tracks (true story).
4. Walking on the street displaying cleavage attire, but when she sees a man, she "covers" up her cleavage. Does she wanna flaunt her nakednesss around little boys to fuck her or what?
5. She stares angry at men who are minding their own business on transit.

Yup...Those are low class behavior which are statements to tell the man that he is potential rapist because he is over 16, and Toronto women would rather be nude around little boys like that Globe & Mail feministe Lena Mc Laren who posted written child erotica in her article.

Post: #14

(04-01-2017 05:48 PM)Vladimir Poontang Wrote:  Women of class know how to show a guy that she's not interested without being hostile.

In fairness to these hostile women, there are plenty of desperate simps out there who will keep pushing and pushing until they're basically told to fuck off.

I feel like the desperation of men and hostility of women has spiraled into a vicious feedback loop in the west. Desperate men who won't take no for an answer leads to hostile bitches who don't give men a chance, which leads to more desperate men, etc etc.

Post: #15

(04-02-2017 12:24 AM)Delta Wrote:  

(04-01-2017 05:48 PM)Vladimir Poontang Wrote:  Women of class know how to show a guy that she's not interested without being hostile.

In fairness to these hostile women, there are plenty of desperate simps out there who will keep pushing and pushing until they're basically told to fuck off.

I feel like the desperation of men and hostility of women has spiraled into a vicious feedback loop in the west. Desperate men who won't take no for an answer leads to hostile bitches who don't give men a chance, which leads to more desperate men, etc etc.

Yes that's true as well. Like I say, toxic.

Post: #16

(04-01-2017 09:25 PM)blck Wrote:  

(04-01-2017 05:48 PM)Vladimir Poontang Wrote:  Women of class know how to show a guy that she's not interested without being hostile. You should be able to look at them and show interest or at least curiosity without being attacked for it. But of course we don't live in a perfect world.

Certainly ignore women without class but you shouldn't have to go around with your head down in case you offend one of them by being a normal guy who likes women. It's sad when men feel that they have to act nonchalant. The best thing as with anything in life is to learn how to spot trash, avoid, and find a better environment. But still, wouldn't it be nice if one could just be oneself around western women, like once upon a time? Dysfunctionality is so toxic that it affects us all in some way. Best to jump on a plane and get away from it.

Glad you're back

Bolded quotes, some guy laughing, and welcome back. If you have something to say, say it.

Post: #17

(04-01-2017 05:48 PM)Vladimir Poontang Wrote:  

(04-01-2017 10:29 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  Women are hostile because if they were not so then they'd spend their entire lives fending off chumps that mistook a lack of hostility as an IOI.
...

...

Certainly ignore women without class but you shouldn't have to go around with your head down in case you offend one of them by being a normal guy who likes women.
...

Uhhh, no.

My casual disregard for them is a far cry from "going around with my head down in case I offend one of them."

Post: #18

(04-02-2017 05:45 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

(04-01-2017 05:48 PM)Vladimir Poontang Wrote:  

(04-01-2017 10:29 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  Women are hostile because if they were not so then they'd spend their entire lives fending off chumps that mistook a lack of hostility as an IOI.
...

...

Certainly ignore women without class but you shouldn't have to go around with your head down in case you offend one of them by being a normal guy who likes women.
...

Uhhh, no.

My casual disregard for them is a far cry from "going around with my head down in case I offend one of them."

I wasn't talking about you. I was speaking in general. I meant that one should not have to do that.

Post: #19

Yeah it's annoying how women want the quickest ejection possible when you interact with them in their work environment. I posted a thread related to this previously

/thread-60561.html

Post: #20

^I can't relate to that post at all. As Vladimir Poontang points out, it's really only an issue in potentially romantic contexts.

Regardless, hanging up on female reps and dealing with the bullshit menu again in hopes of getting a man next time is an insane practice. Just imagine what you'd think about a feminist who does the inverse (hangs up on men).

Post: #21

(04-02-2017 07:00 AM)Vladimir Poontang Wrote:  

(04-02-2017 05:45 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

(04-01-2017 05:48 PM)Vladimir Poontang Wrote:  

(04-01-2017 10:29 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  Women are hostile because if they were not so then they'd spend their entire lives fending off chumps that mistook a lack of hostility as an IOI.
...

...

Certainly ignore women without class but you shouldn't have to go around with your head down in case you offend one of them by being a normal guy who likes women.
...

Uhhh, no.

My casual disregard for them is a far cry from "going around with my head down in case I offend one of them."

I wasn't talking about you. I was speaking in general. I meant that one should not have to do that.

Interesting that you should say that, though. Men cannot control women's behaviour directly. Women can't realistically be educated to "be nice" to men simply "because they should".

Why should they? Take a look at the average man on the street. Who could view them with much other than contempt. Why would women aspire to be pleasant to a sea of omegas? Having spent some time in a big city not so long ago I recall my normally pleasant demeanour turning quite quickly to a perpetual scowl that would look at home on Clint Eastwood's face.

Women are hostile to men (at least in the west) because the men are spineless cucks.

You want to fix women? Fix men first. If no man paid attention to these THOTs then they would be so desperate for validation that they'd hang off the leg of a basement dwelling porn addict.

Post: #22

(04-02-2017 11:28 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

(04-02-2017 07:00 AM)Vladimir Poontang Wrote:  

(04-02-2017 05:45 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

(04-01-2017 05:48 PM)Vladimir Poontang Wrote:  

(04-01-2017 10:29 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  Women are hostile because if they were not so then they'd spend their entire lives fending off chumps that mistook a lack of hostility as an IOI.
...

...

Certainly ignore women without class but you shouldn't have to go around with your head down in case you offend one of them by being a normal guy who likes women.
...

Uhhh, no.

My casual disregard for them is a far cry from "going around with my head down in case I offend one of them."

I wasn't talking about you. I was speaking in general. I meant that one should not have to do that.

Interesting that you should say that, though. Men cannot control women's behaviour directly. Women can't realistically be educated to "be nice" to men simply "because they should".

Why should they? Take a look at the average man on the street. Who could view them with much other than contempt. Why would women aspire to be pleasant to a sea of omegas? Having spent some time in a big city not so long ago I recall my normally pleasant demeanour turning quite quickly to a perpetual scowl that would look at home on Clint Eastwood's face.

Women are hostile to men (at least in the west) because the men are spineless cucks.

You want to fix women? Fix men first. If no man paid attention to these THOTs then they would be so desperate for validation that they'd hang off the leg of a basement dwelling porn addict.

I think it's up to their dads to educate them on how to act like ladies (and if they aren't around, then that's too bad). It's not your job nor mine. It's one thing to take responsibility for oneself, but it's quite another to take other people's responsibility. Western women are fucked. Let them be. Not everything is men's fault.

What I'm really trying to say is that you have to (one has to) be careful not to become poisoned (that includes acting cold when really one just wants to be themselves and be cheerful and smile at women and talk to them normally - that's why I think PUA is a curse as well as a blessing). I'd rather spend my time around nice females than trying to teach broken females a lesson.

I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just saying that sometimes it's best to walk away from trash. Then again I'm a hypocrite because occasionally I troll OKCupid. But forget I said that.

Post: #23

This is because women belong in a domestic or otherwise secure environment, where they know everyone around them and if somebody new shows up he's got a clear reason to be there. Otherwise what business does a girl have talking to strangers?

Men by contrast are supposed to deal with outsiders friendly or not. The current situation where you have tons of shy, boyish dudes who can't hold polite conversation juxtaposed with these super outgoing girls who think they'll be well-served wherever they go, it's an abnormality.

Post: #24

Ever notice how a woman will act super excited when meeting one of her friends and then proceed to badmouth that same friend like crazy as soon as she's gone?

I think the same principle is at play in the OP's observation: he's comparing women with no incentive to be polite to him to women in his social circle with every incentive to maintain their phony facade of being sociable.