Post: #51

I'm leaning towards "don't go" BUT there are a few questions that are important and no one asked:

1. How did SHE react when finding out she had to move out? Did she say anything about you? DID SHE ASK YOU TO COME WITH HER (I'm not yelling, just emphasizing)?
2. Are you giving up anything at all by moving? And by that I also mean future opportunity, be it career or otherwise.
3. Like kaotic said, what's your relationship with her parents? Surely if no one thought about you then give it no thought yourself.

You are the most important party in this whole busniess. Whatever happens make sure you minimise curent and future losses on YOUR side.

Also make sure she's chasing you more than you chase her. I like the others have doubts on how much she really wants to make that work. Long distance doesn't fucking work.

Post: #52

If you have nothing to lose I would go and see how it goes.

The guys I know that have moved for women though, those didnt work out.

4 years is a long time to be with someone and you know her quite well.

Post: #53

Related, Rollo has some advice on LDRs: https://therationalmale.com/2011/09/20/l...le-friend/

Post: #54

(03-02-2017 11:50 PM)Serious Sam Wrote:  

Quote:but her parents are literally forcing her to move back to South Carolina.

This part bothers me the most, and it's not consistent with what you say later (more on that in a bit). Out of the LTRs I've had, one had parents who weren't quite overbearing, but more involved than I liked. I love it when a woman is close to her family, but there is a limit, and this, to me, exceeds it.

It also doesn't sound like you all were working towards anything together. I get it. You were young when you started dating then all of a sudden four years had passed. If you weren't looking to marry her soon, then when were you considering it? Another year or two? A man who's ready to make that leap and start a family knows by at least year two. Graft mentions old school marriages above, but nothing about this situation sounds like an old school marriage. It sounds more like a modern day high school sweetheart situation where they grew comfortable but weren't really looking toward the future, just merely floating along within their comfort zone.

Quote:Her debt is not entirely from the accident, she got a house with 2 other girls who come to find out are just low lives that don't pay rent, she works crazy hours at work and pays for majority of the bills. She also covers the other two girls rent when they don't have the money yet. Now her car is totaled, she's in a really shitty situation and is stressed as hell over everything. This, and given the fact she's only 20 years old I don't blame her for wanting to run back to Mom and Dad who she hasn't seen in almost two years. I've never given her any money to pay off debt, but I do what I can to make her life less stressful (take her out, fuck her like a porn star, workout together, ect. ect.) She keeps telling me how much she wants to make this work between us, and she's done so much already. Feelsbadman

The bold part is what I found inconsistent. Is she running back or is she being forced back? Due to your inconsistency, I'm leaning more towards it being her choice, with a bit of parental control involved. Here's the tough pill to swallow: If she really wanted to continue building a life with you, she would find a way to make shit work in Michigan. But instead, she's running off to South Carolina. Sure, she's comfortable within your relationship now, but there is no stability for her (not from you, anyway), and she recognizes that.

If you were truly her rock and ready to enter into marriage, then she would work with you to work out her problems. But you aren't her rock; her mother and father are. Don't take this hard because you're still very young and have a lot of life to live, but based on what I've read, you aren't prepared to take this relationship any further than it's current conclusion. You two have been comfortable together for four years. She's familiar and you're familiar. But now shit has gotten real for her, and you, at this point, aren't strong enough to wade her through rocky waters. That's why she's moving home. She probably wants you to come, but most likely due to your familiarity and not because you provide the strong support she needs.

This is the reality of the situation. I would take a hard, long look in the mirror and ask yourself if you're truly prepared to be the leader of a family. Be honest with yourself. It's okay if the answer is no. I answered no when I was a few years older than you, and that's why I broke it off with a girl I truly cared about. If the answer is no (and I have a strong feeling it is), then I'd stay where you are. There's no use in uprooting your life for a relationship that won't be built into a marriage and family.

To further illustrate my point, I'm going to add what I've seen from some successful marriages. When I have talked to wives within good marriages, I have found consistency in their answers for what they like most about their husbands (and this can be hard to come by with women). The main thing I hear is something along the lines of "he's dependable" "he's reliable" "he makes me feel safe." Even so-called "strong and independent" women are terrified, weak little creatures who, deep down, know they have no chance once a true threat comes their way. This is why I say that she needs to see you as a rock. She can lean on you within any situation and you never buckle.

An ex of mine and I were driving through a snow storm. She was behind the wheel and I was passed out in the passenger seat after skiing all day. I wake up because she's freaking out. It's a fucking blizzard, the road is all white, you can't see any lanes, and you can barely see two feet in front of you. I tried to get her to pull off, but she wouldn't because you could barely tell the road from a potential snow bank. So I calmly talked her through it. I kept my eyes peeled, kept her calm, and walked her through what to do. We made it home safe. She later told me how much she admired my calmness through the whole situation. The fact was, I was terrified, but I didn't let it show. This is a part of frame maintenance that is rarely talked about: when you're overwhelmed, but make her believe you've got it.

Your girlfriend is in a shitty situation. If she's turning to her parents for guidance instead of you, then she doesn't see you as that calming force to help her weather the storm. This is why moving to SC, in my opinion, is pointless. You aren't ready to take this relationship to the next level. It's merely a comfortable situation for you both since you've been together so long, but it's probably not going anywhere. If she truly saw you as dependable and reliable, then she would have handled the problem with you.

What a fantastic response. This makes a lot of sense, thank you. Reading through your post made me realize my faults in this relationship, I've always been afraid of getting too attached to a woman and because of this have probably failed more comfort tests than passed. I feel as though she definitely wants me to move with her, she's asked me to come. Her parents and I are on good terms. In fact a detail I left out was I had already lived with her and her parents for almost a year when they lived in Florida (I didn't want to make the original post too long and ranting) My question is, is it too late to salvage a successful relationship with her? What if I decide I do want to be her rock, her leader and consider the option of marriage with her? What would be the best route to take in your opinion? I'm assuming I should talk to her about all of this first?

Post: #55

(03-02-2017 09:18 PM)Vaun Wrote:  She is leaving because she wants to break up with you.

This girl is DUMPING YOU, GET IT THROUGH YOUR HEAD.

ANY GIRL THAT MOVES FAR AWAY FROM YOU, WANTS TO BREAK UP WITH YOU.

Its amazing how many men dont actually see that. Not you OP, you're at the age where these things happen and this is the point in your life where you are supposed to learn these tough life lessons. These "playaz" giving you awful advice, I would think twice about.

A women that wants to break up with you is not worth moving for.

If she really wanted to be with you she would be staying by your side. No girl thats truly in love, moves away from her man. She will give up med school, college, a job, etc, if she is truly in love. You're willing to put it all on the line for someone that doesnt love you?

You are making the mistake of a lifetime that could have serious ramifications on your future success in life. i.e. pregancy, marrying someone that doesnt love you, etc. Shes actively proving that she will not stand by your side. What happens when you get married and life gets tough? Or, how do you know she even wants you to move with her? Youre sure of that?

The amount of really bad advice in this thread telling you to move with a woman that doesnt love you is alarming. If you need to depend on a woman to steer the direction of your life, go for it champ. It looks like we have lots of those types in large supply here. Your girl can help you find a job and make you into a man. Because you know, love is all that counts at 24.

I appreciate this perspective, I do love this girl. But I feel as though you're right on a lot of points. However, like my reply to Sam I feel as though she's leaving because I am seen as unsteady and afraid to make a move. Truth be told I am, not because I doubt my love for her but because the Red Pill is fucking with my head, telling me not marry, men have everything to lose, she'll turn into a bitch, her uterus will shrivel up and die when she has kids, ect. ect. I definitley have some thinking to do, and we obviously have to talk about this very soon.

Thank you, Vaun.

Post: #56

If she cared she would have asked to move in with you probably before any of this happened.

Her being that far away from her home and family, if she thought you were it, she'd be trying everything she could to be a permanent fixture.

Post: #57

(03-03-2017 07:42 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  My take is a variation on Serious Sam's excellent and thoughtfully delivered analysis.

My personal analysis will not be delivered so thoughtfully.

Dad to mom: She's been with this chump for four years and no ring? She's A-grade marriage material and she's wasting the best years of her life waiting on some little boy to grow up. If we don't do something soon she's going to end up un-marriageable and miserable for the rest of her life. You need to convince her of that or I'm going to go down there with a shotgun and sort this mess out one way or another.

Mom to daughter: (same gist but more gently delivered with advice on what bullshit story to attach to her decision to go home, ala "my parents are making me")

Daughter: "I'm in lots of debt and my parents are making me come home".

For reals, we had another thread where a guy had strung along a single notch girl (the op) for ten fucking years between age 19 and 29 IIRC. Viewed in this lens it's pretty obvious that OP's former GF is protecting her future.

Now I'm not saying this to shame OP. I'm saying it so that he can get his head straight about the nature of this issue, because if he turns up in SC and says "baby, let's fuck around for another four years while you rocket toward the wall" then he might be really confused when she tells him "go back to Michigan", or worse yet, her Dad tells him in more explicit terms.

Yep, that was me and you remember correctly.

OP, if I were 22 and the same situation as you I would not have stringed my girlfriend for ten years. I would look in the mirror and say: do I really see myself with this girl and act on it.

Flip a coin, heads you move with her, tails you breakup. When your gut says "hopefully it lands ...." you have your answer.

Post: #58

I'm surprised no-one has mentioned the third option. Tell her you will move to South Carolina but not yet ( make up some job related reason). But don't go. Keep making excuses and string her along for as long as possible LTR style and when she's not with you, game and fuck other chicks on the side.

That way if you do get dumped at least you have other plates spinning you can fuck.

Post: #59

I'm in my early 30s.

I don't regret leaving behind the girls in my 20s. Especially since I have been able to date girls anywhere from 18 to my age or older for the entire time.

Get your shit together first.

I highly doubt that she's moving away, after this long, without cooperating with her parents.

Realize that you have a get-out-of-jail-free-card.

10 years from now, and many girls later, find a better girl and settle down after you're more established.

Post: #60

(03-03-2017 08:06 PM)Deadlifts Wrote:  

(03-02-2017 09:18 PM)Vaun Wrote:  
ANY GIRL THAT MOVES FAR AWAY FROM YOU, WANTS TO BREAK UP WITH YOU.

If she really wanted to be with you she would be staying by your side. No girl thats truly in love, moves away from her man. She will give up med school, college, a job, etc, if she is truly in love. You're willing to put it all on the line for someone that doesnt love you?

I appreciate this perspective, I do love this girl. But I feel as though you're right on a lot of points. However, like my reply to Sam I feel as though she's leaving because I am seen as unsteady and afraid to make a move. Truth be told I am, not because I doubt my love for her but because the Red Pill is fucking with my head, telling me not marry, men have everything to lose, she'll turn into a bitch, her uterus will shrivel up and die when she has kids, ect. ect. I definitley have some thinking to do, and we obviously have to talk about this very soon.

Thank you, Vaun.

You are beating yourself up dude. Stop it right now.

My quote above is what I want you to focus on. If she were 'in love' she would not be moving. Girls vote with their feet, not with their hearts.

I care about this because this exact scenario happened to me when I was your exact age. My high school girlfriend of 3 years suddenly "wanted to go to pastry school." She was the first real girlfriend in my life. Her and I traveled all over together snowboarding, she helped me start my first business, we had constant crazy addictive sex. Her sister and her mom didnt like me, because I was a hell raiser and really not a great catch. The mom told me I could not marry her daughter because I was not a devout Christian. Her sister would get mad at me for drinking the milk, yawn.

Her brothers did like me, and her dad did too. If you ever read Rich Dad, Poor Dad, he was the rich dad in my life. My own dad struggled through life, and could never enjoy life. Her dad gave me opportunities, introduced me to people, showed me a better path. Him and his wife had the ideal marriage, the ideal family. I still hold them to the highest regard. He was probably the single most positive influential person in my life, at a time in my early 20's when I was trying to find my way.

Well, suddenly they decided that my girl had to "go to culinary school", and she moved four hours away. Now four hours away isnt that far, I would drive down every weekend. But when I would go down, it was different. And I broke up with my girl. Because long distance relationships are not relationships. In hindsight, the mother jumped at the chance to send my girl to a school far away from me, and they convinced her to go.

Being an outcast from her family, and her leaving, really affected me. You are beating yourself up man, stop it. Your self identity is now completely based on how these people feel about you. You are letting your perceived inadequacies affect you, and bring down your self esteem. This is causing you to doubt yourself, and then cling to this girl as she is trying to move away from you.

You dont want to hear this, but you are very young to be chasing a girl. You should be suspect of any older man telling you to chase or move to a woman out of anything remotely concerning; a) money or being broke b) having no other options c) chasing fleeting love, etc etc. This is the mark of a loser, a man that clings to a woman because he needs financial support, or even emotional support. These men have to live with women to pay their bills, or even complete their self identity. If your life is not secure and solid enough to where your woman follows you, then you have to go out and develop into a man. Then more, even higher quality women will just show up in your life.

These are not red pill truths, these are universal truths about men and women. They existed far before "The Game" and Reddit.

And then what happens when you date/marry someone that is not madly in love with you? Your relationship will be shit. You will suffer as a man. You will be depressed and totally unfulfilled in life. False allegations, divorce, accidental pregnancy, taking your money, public ridicule, etc etc. I am not being extreme, you have just yet not experienced any of these.

This may have just run its course. Take the positives with you. There are going to be so many other women. You should go learn game and have no girlfriend for a while, maybe the rest of your 20's. Be single and have fun and check off your bucket list in your 20's. You really need to learn how to stand on your own now, maybe thats why shes leaving.

Post: #61

Vaun, The strength with which you are trying to convince him is not one of a man who has dealt with his emotions around his own breakup. You are projecting your situation on OP's, but you have no evidence whatsoever that the situation is similar.

Vaun, your situation is clearly different from OP's. You left her. Since you ended it, you are the only one to blame for the death of the relationship.

I understand you regret "letting her" move away, but that choice was not up to you. "Maybe" if you intervened earlier, "maybe" if you had put your foot down, things would have been different.

But you forget that you cannot strong-arm someone into a life they don't want, especially if they have people they know since birth (family) that like to see them go another way.

Your assessment that it was the family's choice and not the girl to move may or may not be true. But a man will only ponder this if he is too emotionally invested in something he can not control. You are not viewing this rationally, and I am sorry you lost a relationship that was clearly so important to you.

OP: regret is a dangerous thing. It makes a man lose his mind, and distorts his ability to view what's right in front of him. The same goes for anticipating regret. It installs a fear in you that makes you see things that are not there.

You are anticipating regret of a decision you have yet to make. If one thing is going to scare your girl away, it's your fear of regretting to move with her. If she wants you to come with, she wants you to commit like an adult male.

She will interpret your fear as you being a scared little boy who's afraid mommy will leave him. Ofcourse this is not the case, but as she is a woman she cannot understand a mans fear, let alone a mans fear of regret. If you show this to her, it will make her instinctively withdraw from the relationship. So you cannot talk about your fear of regret, it will make things worse.

However, fear clouds your judgement and makes it impossible to think straight. Especially the fear of regret that's associated with both outcomes of one decision. You are in a vicious cycle, bound to lose - because both decisions might lead to a negative outcome. This will amplify your fear and will make it harder to think.

Any pondering of the outcomes will make it harder to actually decide. And seeking advice - which is pondering the outcomes with someone else - might push you over the edge. It will make you tempted to outsource deciding all together, because pondering will just immobilise you further.

To prevent yourself from outsourcing a decision with such big complications for the outcome of your whole life, I suggest the following drastic measure.

Cut off anyone who's advice might push you more into your fear of regret. Unplug from the forum. Kill social media and any other contact that brings you into that fearful headspace. Take some time alone and get more information from your girlfriend only if necessary.

If you decide to leave her right now, you might save yourself from the regret of having stayed with her and seeing the relationship turn sour. But this hasn't happened yet. You are trying to predict the future, and you can't. We can't either. It's time you leave us out of one of the most important decisions of your life thus far.

To see clearly, you have to starve your fear of regret from the fuel of anticipating your relationship going bad when you move. Then it will be less difficult to commit to what's right for you.

All the best!

Post: #62

(03-03-2017 11:12 PM)Guitarman Wrote:  I'm surprised no-one has mentioned the third option. Tell her you will move to South Carolina but not yet ( make up some job related reason). But don't go. Keep making excuses and string her along for as long as possible LTR style and when she's not with you, game and fuck other chicks on the side.

That way if you do get dumped at least you have other plates spinning you can fuck.

Don't do this. I moved out from my hometown and stringed my high school sweetheart for ten years and she has waited for me and I feel like shit because now I don't feel excited about her and the guilt is consuming my mind.

Post: #63

(03-02-2017 03:53 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  ^He is 22 WTF

My wife's parents got married at that exact age in the early 80s.

I have friends from my fly over town that got married at the same time.

It isn't as far fetch'd as one might thing. Not to mention 4 years of a solid LTR is more than enough time to make the jump to a long term relationship especially if his girl was a virgin.

This whole "you're young, go out and bang broads" is complete hogwash. If you found a good girl at a young age and everything checks out why not marry her?

Going out and indiscriminately banging sluts isn't healthy as most of us have attested here.

Post: #64

(03-04-2017 10:19 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

(03-02-2017 03:53 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  ^He is 22 WTF

My wife's parents got married at that exact age in the early 80s.

I have friends from my fly over town that got married at the same time.

It isn't as far fetch'd as one might thing. Not to mention 4 years of a solid LTR is more than enough time to make the jump to a long term relationship especially if his girl was a virgin.

This whole "you're young, go out and bang broads" is complete hogwash. If you found a good girl at a young age and everything checks out why not marry her?

Going out and indiscriminately banging sluts isn't healthy as most of us have attested here.

Totally agree

Go for it man, Roosh posted a vid not so long ago where he lamented not having a wife and children at his age, regrets of pursuing the player lifestyle.

You might look back on this moment and agree that you had a lot of fun since but regret that you were too indecisive to take a chance on her, even if it turns out wrong.

Seize the day!

Post: #65

(03-04-2017 10:19 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  My wife's parents got married at that exact age in the early 80s.

I have friends from my fly over town that got married at the same time.

It isn't as far fetch'd as one might thing. Not to mention 4 years of a solid LTR is more than enough time to make the jump to a long term relationship especially if his girl was a virgin.

This whole "you're young, go out and bang broads" is complete hogwash. If you found a good girl at a young age and everything checks out why not marry her?

Going out and indiscriminately banging sluts isn't healthy as most of us have attested here.

It's a defensible position. But now he's found RVF, the floodgates are open, and he may never truly be happy with one woman.

Post: #66

(03-03-2017 07:59 PM)Deadlifts Wrote:  

(03-02-2017 11:50 PM)Serious Sam Wrote:  

Quote:but her parents are literally forcing her to move back to South Carolina.

This part bothers me the most, and it's not consistent with what you say later (more on that in a bit). Out of the LTRs I've had, one had parents who weren't quite overbearing, but more involved than I liked. I love it when a woman is close to her family, but there is a limit, and this, to me, exceeds it.

It also doesn't sound like you all were working towards anything together. I get it. You were young when you started dating then all of a sudden four years had passed. If you weren't looking to marry her soon, then when were you considering it? Another year or two? A man who's ready to make that leap and start a family knows by at least year two. Graft mentions old school marriages above, but nothing about this situation sounds like an old school marriage. It sounds more like a modern day high school sweetheart situation where they grew comfortable but weren't really looking toward the future, just merely floating along within their comfort zone.

Quote:Her debt is not entirely from the accident, she got a house with 2 other girls who come to find out are just low lives that don't pay rent, she works crazy hours at work and pays for majority of the bills. She also covers the other two girls rent when they don't have the money yet. Now her car is totaled, she's in a really shitty situation and is stressed as hell over everything. This, and given the fact she's only 20 years old I don't blame her for wanting to run back to Mom and Dad who she hasn't seen in almost two years. I've never given her any money to pay off debt, but I do what I can to make her life less stressful (take her out, fuck her like a porn star, workout together, ect. ect.) She keeps telling me how much she wants to make this work between us, and she's done so much already. Feelsbadman

The bold part is what I found inconsistent. Is she running back or is she being forced back? Due to your inconsistency, I'm leaning more towards it being her choice, with a bit of parental control involved. Here's the tough pill to swallow: If she really wanted to continue building a life with you, she would find a way to make shit work in Michigan. But instead, she's running off to South Carolina. Sure, she's comfortable within your relationship now, but there is no stability for her (not from you, anyway), and she recognizes that.

If you were truly her rock and ready to enter into marriage, then she would work with you to work out her problems. But you aren't her rock; her mother and father are. Don't take this hard because you're still very young and have a lot of life to live, but based on what I've read, you aren't prepared to take this relationship any further than it's current conclusion. You two have been comfortable together for four years. She's familiar and you're familiar. But now shit has gotten real for her, and you, at this point, aren't strong enough to wade her through rocky waters. That's why she's moving home. She probably wants you to come, but most likely due to your familiarity and not because you provide the strong support she needs.

This is the reality of the situation. I would take a hard, long look in the mirror and ask yourself if you're truly prepared to be the leader of a family. Be honest with yourself. It's okay if the answer is no. I answered no when I was a few years older than you, and that's why I broke it off with a girl I truly cared about. If the answer is no (and I have a strong feeling it is), then I'd stay where you are. There's no use in uprooting your life for a relationship that won't be built into a marriage and family.

To further illustrate my point, I'm going to add what I've seen from some successful marriages. When I have talked to wives within good marriages, I have found consistency in their answers for what they like most about their husbands (and this can be hard to come by with women). The main thing I hear is something along the lines of "he's dependable" "he's reliable" "he makes me feel safe." Even so-called "strong and independent" women are terrified, weak little creatures who, deep down, know they have no chance once a true threat comes their way. This is why I say that she needs to see you as a rock. She can lean on you within any situation and you never buckle.

An ex of mine and I were driving through a snow storm. She was behind the wheel and I was passed out in the passenger seat after skiing all day. I wake up because she's freaking out. It's a fucking blizzard, the road is all white, you can't see any lanes, and you can barely see two feet in front of you. I tried to get her to pull off, but she wouldn't because you could barely tell the road from a potential snow bank. So I calmly talked her through it. I kept my eyes peeled, kept her calm, and walked her through what to do. We made it home safe. She later told me how much she admired my calmness through the whole situation. The fact was, I was terrified, but I didn't let it show. This is a part of frame maintenance that is rarely talked about: when you're overwhelmed, but make her believe you've got it.

Your girlfriend is in a shitty situation. If she's turning to her parents for guidance instead of you, then she doesn't see you as that calming force to help her weather the storm. This is why moving to SC, in my opinion, is pointless. You aren't ready to take this relationship to the next level. It's merely a comfortable situation for you both since you've been together so long, but it's probably not going anywhere. If she truly saw you as dependable and reliable, then she would have handled the problem with you.

What a fantastic response. This makes a lot of sense, thank you. Reading through your post made me realize my faults in this relationship, I've always been afraid of getting too attached to a woman and because of this have probably failed more comfort tests than passed. I feel as though she definitely wants me to move with her, she's asked me to come. Her parents and I are on good terms. In fact a detail I left out was I had already lived with her and her parents for almost a year when they lived in Florida (I didn't want to make the original post too long and ranting) My question is, is it too late to salvage a successful relationship with her? What if I decide I do want to be her rock, her leader and consider the option of marriage with her? What would be the best route to take in your opinion? I'm assuming I should talk to her about all of this first?

Then tell her not to go and that you and she will work through the crisis together. Its one thing if your relationship is un-salvageable...its another if your relationship is solid and its external forces pulling you apart.

Life isn't going to always be smooth sailing and "quitting" is a bad habit to get into.

Tell her how you feel and take charge...that's what she wants and whats she's looking for. Youre just letting her parents give it to her instead of her man

Post: #67

(03-04-2017 10:39 AM)churros Wrote:  

(03-04-2017 10:19 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  My wife's parents got married at that exact age in the early 80s.

I have friends from my fly over town that got married at the same time.

It isn't as far fetch'd as one might thing. Not to mention 4 years of a solid LTR is more than enough time to make the jump to a long term relationship especially if his girl was a virgin.

This whole "you're young, go out and bang broads" is complete hogwash. If you found a good girl at a young age and everything checks out why not marry her?

Going out and indiscriminately banging sluts isn't healthy as most of us have attested here.

It's a defensible position. But now he's found RVF, the floodgates are open, and he may never truly be happy with one woman.

It's an option worth considering and it is quite possible to be happy with just one woman.

I knew about the player lifestyle before having a taste of multiple women. Thinking back on it, I would have been happy to marry both of the girls I was in a serious relationship with. College was what broke both my relationships apart.

Once college came around, the girls became stupid easy. My college was a very liberal one too so it just made the ease of access that much easier.

The pair bonding that you get as a late teenager early 20s is crazy. You find the right girl and you both click things just grow from there. Some of the most intense and strongest relationships I had were when I was a teenager.

If we're to build healthy societies, we should be encouraging people to get married young. At the latest, early 20s is even better. A little bit of dating around should be encouraged as a teenager even for girls. Heck, i'm more inclined to believe that women should remain virgins until marriage.

Post: #68

They seem to work well together so it's love not just pure lust, but how well do you guys work as a team in all and every actual and hypothetical situation? People also change over time.

You will never know ,no matter what you do. Complete outcome independence in 2k17 is a failed strategy from the start and is overly rationalistic, not all human behavior can be predicted or accounted for.

I'd keep any keepers, women only more get jaded the older they get, especially after riding the carousel

Look up the youtube channel called School of Life and their section about relationships,I think it will help you put your thoughts into perspective.

This forum has many players, keep in mind where you are getting your advice from

Like Roosh has said, Romanticism (in the philosophical sense) and the hedonic treadmill do distort ones perception of love and relationships.


Whatever you do ,understand all dimensions of your choice and actions

There is shit tier quality of women in the west ,keep this in mind.

But also have some amount of rationality how you guys work together and if you guys change,either way it seems you have more to loose letting her go ,even if thats a risk in itself,its one certainly worth taking

I've been in less than ideal relationships that might have been worth perpetuating a month or two longer compared to the hookups that came next.

Nothing is black or white

Post: #69

At your age, you should be focused on making money and establishing the foundation blocks for the lifestyle you want down the line.

That doesn't mean all work and no play however; it means exploring your own interests/desires, career paths, traveling, etc without anything holding you back/slowing you down. This includes wasting time, not exploring your own interests, turning down career opportunities, turning down better women prospects, abandoning family, etc due to LTRs that aren't going to lead to a kids/family when it's all said and done.

Ultimately, you need to learn what you don't know at this age, what you value in life, and why you value such things. You will only get that from taking some chances. However, you need to be focusing your valuable time on chances that potentially benefit YOUR life first and foremost.

Let's look at some basic things about your situation:

1. Leaving a close knit family is not something to do lightly and doesn't benefit you at all.

2. A chick who is overly dependent (emotional and/or financial) on her parents to the point where she would abandon you and fly across the country after 4 years together suddenly with no real resistance = a chick that probably isn't that into you. At the very least, staying close to you isn't priority #1; which is more telling than you realize.

3. Long distance relationships in the smartphone era = retarded. This chick will be living at home and therefore, will be looking for a guy with his own place locally to escape.

4. This chick has money/debt issues. Any woman (anyone really) that has significant money management problems is a liability for you; a billion times more so if you live together, have kids, or God forbid, get legally married.

It's very hard when young and in a intense LTR to look at a women with brutal objectivity but failure to do so could cost you greatly.

The Bottom Lines:

1. Let the LTR die. It's bad news anyway regardless if she is leaving due to the overbearing parental influence and money management problems. You're gonna feel like shit for a bit given this is a young love situation. It's normal. It will pass.

2. Go focus on becoming a better man so that at 32, you have the option and know how to pull down a quality 20 year old chick with ease. I underlined "option" because a substantial amount of your worth as a man to women as you get older is based on your pass performance and output.

Got a your own place, can afford to travel, buy nice clothes, AND have solid game? You're golden.

Live at home/with roommates, working a dead end job, wearing clothes from 10 years ago, and your game is blah? You're fucked. Even WITH solid game, you will hit a ceiling in what you can attract AND maintain if you don't have your shit together. Your 20's is the time to get that shit together.

Furthermore, your filtering skills will be A LOT better and it will take far less time to vet chick; for banging and/or family purposes. Your LTRs will probably be a lot stronger too since you will have game (with standards/expectations set from day 1 - very important), money, and life experience. It's A LOT easier to maintain a healthy LTR when you're established and have your shit together.

3. Women are suppose to follow men; not the other way around. You should always be marching to your own tune and doing what's in your best interest by and large.

4. Women, especially young women under 30, can check out of a relationship and get a new cock in literally about 10 minutes and be in a new LTR in about 30 minutes. They are emotionally driven individuals and don't give two shits about checking out once they are not feeling it anymore or their current LTR is inconvenient for them.

If there is one hard lesson I've learned in life in dealing with women its that when they have checked out and that burning desire is gone, they give ZERO fucks about you or your well-being. If this LTR had that burning desire, she be sticking to you like crazy glue.

Making any kind of significant sacrifice for a woman is just generally speaking, simply stupid unless the woman is providing enormous value to your life today (bearing your children, is super rich, has valuable social connections). They will almost never appreciate and/or return the favor at the end of the day.

Always be objective, think about YOUR future down the line, what VALUE any woman brings to you TODAY, and do what's best for your well-being in the end. It's your train and a woman can either enjoy the ride and help fuel the train or get the fuck off. No freeloaders, stowaways, or women who have one foot off the train and on the station platform already looking to get off.

Until you're thinking like this, you're not fit to be in a LTR in the first place.

Post: #70

(03-02-2017 03:31 PM)kaotic Wrote:  Long distance doesn't work - period.

"her parents are forcing her" - how is your relationship with her parents ?

How much debt is she in ? Is it all from the accident ?

I personally wouldn't because of a girl, especially if I'd be leaving my own tight knit family.

I also wouldn't want to be paying down my girls debt either.


I think we all know the obvious answer here, as unfortunate as it may be for you.

You're only 22, you've got TONS of time to find another girl, but most importantly work on yourself, find a better job, and strive for better things in life, women always come secondary to your own needs.

Respectfully disagree,
LDRs are far far far from ideal but can be superior in certain circumstances. I had friends in Wien,(now moved back home and are still with the girls) from Russia,Ukraine and Kazakstan. Compared to the inferior quality of Austrian girls as well as the snooty/uglier on average Eastern European/Central Asian girls ,they made the right move for sure

He probably wont be able to find another girl like this so easily

Post: #71

(03-04-2017 10:39 AM)churros Wrote:  It's a defensible position. But now he's found RVF, the floodgates are open, and he may never truly be happy with one woman.

He's 22. It's not too late to chart whatever course he desires. He's not locked into any particular lifestyle yet.

G

Post: #72

(03-04-2017 10:19 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

(03-02-2017 03:53 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  ^He is 22 WTF

My wife's parents got married at that exact age in the early 80s.

I have friends from my fly over town that got married at the same time.

It isn't as far fetch'd as one might thing. Not to mention 4 years of a solid LTR is more than enough time to make the jump to a long term relationship especially if his girl was a virgin.

This whole "you're young, go out and bang broads" is complete hogwash. If you found a good girl at a young age and everything checks out why not marry her?

Going out and indiscriminately banging sluts isn't healthy as most of us have attested here.

Important question. Were these friends hesitant when they married? Did the man in these relationships still long to sow his wild oats?

Nobody can set a particular age for a man to toss in his wanderlust and settle down. Getting married because it "makes sense" will inevitably lead to trouble down the line. You've got to want it, preferably badly. Dealing with the dramas of a few sluts is typically what it takes to convince a man that the grass is greener on the other side and will allow him to keep perspective in the decades to come rather than always wondering what might have been or worse, dipping his toes in that other life and ruining what he has built.

This chick has already cut free of OP. Even if he pursued her the relationship would never be the same. Personally I wish him the best of luck in banging out some sluts and getting it out of his system quickly before finding a marriageable woman younger than himself that will respond less as a peer and more as a subordinate.

Post: #73

(03-04-2017 10:34 PM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  This chick has already cut free of OP. Even if he pursued her the relationship would never be the same. Personally I wish him the best of luck in banging out some sluts and getting it out of his system quickly before finding a marriageable woman younger than himself that will respond less as a peer and more as a subordinate.

This is what all of these "just go for it" posts are missing. They are missing the most fundamental point of all here. This girl has moved on, she is not in love with OP. You can't force a woman to love you, and throwing your young valuable life away for that is a shame.

Post: #74

(03-04-2017 10:19 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  My wife's parents got married at that exact age in the early 80s.

This isn't the 80's - that's 30+ years ago.

Are you willing to say things are the same when it comes to relationships and marriage ?

Quote:This whole "you're young, go out and bang broads" is complete hogwash. If you found a good girl at a young age and everything checks out why not marry her?

Going out and indiscriminately banging sluts isn't healthy as most of us have attested here.

I don't believe going out and exploring women to find out what you truly like is hogwash.

I do believe that some men aren't built for the player lifestyle, they just want to be happy with 1 woman and build a family around that, which is absolutely respectable.

BUT this day and age they need to be a man armed to the teeth when it comes to handling women, relationships, and masculinity.

This isn't your Gramps 60+ year marriage in the good ol' days.

(03-04-2017 02:25 PM)Nowak Wrote:  Respectfully disagree,
LDRs are far far far from ideal but can be superior in certain circumstances. I had friends in Wien,(now moved back home and are still with the girls) from Russia,Ukraine and Kazakstan. Compared to the inferior quality of Austrian girls as well as the snooty/uglier on average Eastern European/Central Asian girls ,they made the right move for sure

He probably wont be able to find another girl like this so easily

This isn't Asia, this isn't the FSU, this is America.

You defeated your own argument in your first sentence alone - if it's far far far far from ideal - then why bother with something that doesn't adhere to your ideals ?

Because "love" ? You have to think rationally for a second instead of emotionally.

OP has been with the woman for 3 years - if she's a good girl and truly was devoted to him I think the conversation would have gone a little differently than her saying -

"Hey FYI I'm broke, my parents already booked me a plane ticket and plan on picking up in a month"

^^^That right there is suspect to me, it sounds like she pretty much tossed this into his lap without much of resistance against her parents.

Post: #75

I think the most important thing for you to do is to focus on improving yourself. You say you make 18/hr now, which is better than 10, and certainly better than 0. Don't let all the red pill stuff get in your head. At the end of the day, it's your life and you need to live it however you see fit. She seems like a good girl from what you describe, but leaving your life behind to follow her to SC is probably not a good idea. I can't tell if she's trying to break up with you, but it seems like she really is in a tough situation, and may be she does need to move back or at least start establishing her life.

Plus, you did mention that she hasn't seen her parents for two years, which is a very long time. All I can say is, I definitely wouldn't move to a new state with no job prospects just because my gf is. If you felt like you really had to make that move, at the very least you should start looking for work there and set something up before moving.

Leaving behind your current job and ending up with no work in a new state is gonna be very tough, and having your gf with you will not make the situation all that better. Women want to follow a man. You leaving behind your life to follow her will make her lose some respect for you. That's just how it is.

Sometimes it takes a tough experience for you to learn these lessons, but you also don't have to break up with her given your situation. You've been with her four years, so if you want to have a serious relationship with her or marry her you've had enough time to know if she is worth it. I think it would be a good idea to try to talk with her and see where her head is at. Does she want to get married and have kids? What exactly does she expect for the future?

Yes, you are young and it's hard to make such a serious commitment at your age, but at the end of the day you do what you want. You don't have to fuck a lot of random girls because you're young or because that's what other guys tell you is best for you at this age. The best advice I can offer you though, is to make sure that your own personal advancement comes first. Don't ever think that any one woman in particular will be the key to your happiness.