Post: #26

1. Never move for a woman.

2. None of your relationships mean a goddamn fucking thing until you get one pregnant, and then you're dealing with real shit. If you have to inconvenience yourself any more than say, helping her move a sofa, then just no.

Post: #27

(03-02-2017 05:14 PM)Deadlifts Wrote:  I do what I can

You still haven't told us what you do for a living. How hard would it be to pick up where you left off jobwise if you moved? If you've got nothing to lose in moving, move.

People pushing the "next" advice on you aren't in your shoes, aren't feeling the emotions you're feeling, and aren't going to have to deal with any potential "fish that got away" regrets. If you think she's a keeper, and there's no huge conflict of interest between trying to keep her and moving your other life-goals forward, go with her.

Most young guys do not wind up with keepers because of low SMV. If she's really that into you, then it's a precious thing. If you lose her it will be back trying to game sluts who want older established alphas. So sure, in the long run you'll get over it, but you've got a better thing going than most at your age and it's not something to take for granted.

Post: #28

(03-02-2017 05:49 PM)questor70 Wrote:  

(03-02-2017 05:14 PM)Deadlifts Wrote:  I do what I can

You still haven't told us what you do for a living. How hard would it be to pick up where you left off jobwise if you moved? If you've got nothing to lose in moving, move.

People pushing the "next" advice on you aren't in your shoes, aren't feeling the emotions you're feeling, and aren't going to have to deal with any potential "fish that got away" regrets. If you think she's a keeper, and there's no huge conflict of interest between trying to keep her and moving your other life-goals forward, go with her.

Most young guys do not wind up with keepers because of low SMV. If she's really that into you, then it's a precious thing. If you lose her it will be back trying to game sluts who want older established alphas. So sure, in the long run you'll get over it, but you've got a better thing going than most at your age and it's not something to take for granted.

Agree with this and i'm a year younger with a similar great girl for the moment. If my girl was to initiate the move it would be an instant next though. A girl that is worth it does not move away on her own accord and only does if her man initiates the move due to change of job, lifestyle etc. A girl that is deeply bonded with you should not even want to leave your own city for a day without you. If she ever travels it is due to me wishing to visit a place.

Post: #29

Tough situation but it needs rational thought in order to not get tougher.
It's most possibly your first LTR, hers too, so your sentiments get the best of both of you.

First of all, long distance relationships are very hard to succeed for more mature and independent people, imagine two people in their early twenties.

Moving to her state: There are important questions you need to answer to yourself, concerning many details, trivial, tiring and completely unsentimental. Eg, even if you moved to her state, where would you live, her parents' place or your own? Would you have work there or you'd be depended on someone else's money? For how long? Who would pay for moving your own stuff there? How much of your stuff are you willing to leave behind?

If you don't have your own place and your own money don't think about doing it, in my opinion.

Another thing: Living with your own parents can be frustrating sometimes, imagine living with the ones whose daughter you 're banging. Have you met them? What if they don't like you or discover that they don't after you move there?
There are many possibilities, good and bad, but for such a big move you must have back up plans.

And then there are some things you have to ask her.
Now what I'm curious about is how she sees the whole situation and more importantly, what she d o e s about it. How does she really see moving back to her parents' state? Did she propose that you move with her first? What was her first reaction when you said you might move with her? The v e r y f i r s t one, I mean. Why did she keep supporting those irresponsible roomates of hers? Is she "best friends" with them? Would she leave them on their own in the hypothetical situation that you could help her, and only her, in some way?

What kind of "sacrifice", commensurate to yours, is s h e willing to make so that your relationship lasts? (And accepting a long distance arrangement isn't a sacrifice - on her part that is).

I 'll be blunt and say things don't look good. You are both young and until you are both independent you have to make sacrifices. Not all relationships are made to last and if yours has to end too, then at least you can have a clean break on friendly terms, which is no small thing.

Post: #30

(03-02-2017 05:49 PM)questor70 Wrote:  

(03-02-2017 05:14 PM)Deadlifts Wrote:  I do what I can

You still haven't told us what you do for a living. How hard would it be to pick up where you left off jobwise if you moved? If you've got nothing to lose in moving, move.

People pushing the "next" advice on you aren't in your shoes, aren't feeling the emotions you're feeling, and aren't going to have to deal with any potential "fish that got away" regrets. If you think she's a keeper, and there's no huge conflict of interest between trying to keep her and moving your other life-goals forward, go with her.

Most young guys do not wind up with keepers because of low SMV. If she's really that into you, then it's a precious thing. If you lose her it will be back trying to game sluts who want older established alphas. So sure, in the long run you'll get over it, but you've got a better thing going than most at your age and it's not something to take for granted.

I make $18/hr, being 22 with no school that's decent money for the midwest. But I'm in manufacturing, I don't care for what I do and I certainly don't see myself sticking in it long term. Being as young as I am part of me does want to jump on board and just go. Even if things fail I still have the life experience, now is the time to do it before I get older and set into a more serious career. On the other hand....I'm walking away from $18/hr which has given me a fairly comfortable lifestyle.

Post: #31

Where in Michigan and where in South Carolina?

Normally I would say don't follow the girl but there are places in Michigan that I would want to get out of and places in South Carolina that are great for the US.

The debt could be an issue if it is a lot of money. Obviously you should never pay any of that.

Post: #32

You probably shouldn't follow her, but what's the worst that happens if you do? She dumps you and you move home? Sounds like an adventure to me.

Post: #33

(03-02-2017 08:16 PM)Peregrine Wrote:  You probably shouldn't follow her, but what's the worst that happens if you do? She dumps you and you move home? Sounds like an adventure to me.

People on their death beds always say they regret what they didn't do, not what they did, even when they factor in all their big mistakes.

The kind of advice you're going to get here are lots of "nexts" because this is the path of least resistance. If he moves with her, he takes the road less traveled. It's more effort. More work. More uncertainty. I say it's worth taking, especially if it gives him an excuse to get out of a steady but unfulfilling job. Unless that job has upward mobility, it's a complacency trap. Maybe this is a positive catalyst even though it's ultimately being driven by her money troubles. And if he frames it that way to her, it will look alpha and not beta (supplicating/thirsty).

Post: #34

(03-02-2017 08:47 PM)questor70 Wrote:  The kind of advice you're going to get here are lots of "nexts" because this is the path of least resistance. If he moves with her, he takes the road less traveled. It's more effort. More work. More uncertainty. I say it's worth taking, especially if it gives him an excuse to get out of a steady but unfulfilling job. Unless that job has upward mobility, it's a complacency trap. Maybe this is a positive catalyst even though it's ultimately being driven by her money troubles. And if he frames it that way to her, it will look alpha and not beta (supplicating/thirsty).

Please stop with the absolutely horrible advice.

Post: #35

NEXT!

Post: #36

(03-02-2017 03:16 PM)Deadlifts Wrote:  I'm 22, she's 20. 4 years together and she's a fucking good one. BJ's on command, cooks, cleans for me. She's very well spoken and intelligent, takes care of herself and holds a boner inducing feminine energy almost 24/7.

She moved to Michigan to be with me after doing long distance, but her parents are literally forcing her to move back to South Carolina. They are coming to pick her up in a month and have already bought the plane ticket. Reason being is she got in a car accident and is in deep debt. She will move back to SC for minimum of 6-12 months....however, I'm not sure if I want to do long distance again. It's difficult, and there's always the possibility of her cheating on me and I not knowing. While I do not believe she'd do this, I don't want to be in unicorn denial, and in an LDR the chance is exponentially higher, given that I'm not there much.

So my options are,
1. Stick out an LDR with my girlfriend for minimum 6 months while I visit her or vice versa every so often.

2. Go with her to SC, (is this a beta move?) I have a decent job but it's definitely not my passion by any means, I'm not exactly giving up a whole lot in Michigan besides a close knit family. But I feel by me chasing after her it makes me look weak...

3. Break it off with her.

What would you guys do?

I need some outside perspective in case I'm blinded by oneitis here.

I'd say go. 4 years is a long time and if she is a good one and you are truly happy thats hard to find. If you dont love your job and you think you'll be able to find something else, and you arent leaving a lot behind in Michigan, go for it. Make her think its her idea though. Worst case scenario you can always go back, and you may end up liking SC more then MI.

Post: #37

What does your gut say?

Write that out to us and we'll give you our thoughts.

Post: #38

She is leaving because she wants to break up with you.

This girl is DUMPING YOU, GET IT THROUGH YOUR HEAD.

ANY GIRL THAT MOVES FAR AWAY FROM YOU, WANTS TO BREAK UP WITH YOU.

Its amazing how many men dont actually see that. Not you OP, you're at the age where these things happen and this is the point in your life where you are supposed to learn these tough life lessons. These "playaz" giving you awful advice, I would think twice about.

A women that wants to break up with you is not worth moving for.

If she really wanted to be with you she would be staying by your side. No girl thats truly in love, moves away from her man. She will give up med school, college, a job, etc, if she is truly in love. You're willing to put it all on the line for someone that doesnt love you?

You are making the mistake of a lifetime that could have serious ramifications on your future success in life. i.e. pregancy, marrying someone that doesnt love you, etc. Shes actively proving that she will not stand by your side. What happens when you get married and life gets tough? Or, how do you know she even wants you to move with her? Youre sure of that?

The amount of really bad advice in this thread telling you to move with a woman that doesnt love you is alarming. If you need to depend on a woman to steer the direction of your life, go for it champ. It looks like we have lots of those types in large supply here. Your girl can help you find a job and make you into a man. Because you know, love is all that counts at 24.

Post: #39

(03-02-2017 07:33 PM)Deadlifts Wrote:  I make $18/hr, being 22 with no school that's decent money for the midwest. But I'm in manufacturing, I don't care for what I do and I certainly don't see myself sticking in it long term. Being as young as I am part of me does want to jump on board and just go. Even if things fail I still have the life experience, now is the time to do it before I get older and set into a more serious career. On the other hand....I'm walking away from $18/hr which has given me a fairly comfortable lifestyle.

You're gonna get conflicting shit here. Some are telling you to go. I am telling you to NOT go.

It's a fucking mistake. Don't do that shit. If she loves you TRULY, she'll come back. If not, then you'll just be the fool. This is your moment to discover if this girl loves you. If she loves you, she'll come to you.

If she doesn't do that, then tell her to fuck off.

Post: #40

(03-02-2017 08:16 PM)Peregrine Wrote:  You probably shouldn't follow her, but what's the worst that happens if you do? She dumps you and you move home? Sounds like an adventure to me.

If I were in his place, I would follow her. Like you're saying, what would be the worst that happens anyway?

He would move back home and continue with his life.

Post: #41

(03-02-2017 09:53 PM)Rossi Wrote:  

(03-02-2017 08:16 PM)Peregrine Wrote:  You probably shouldn't follow her, but what's the worst that happens if you do? She dumps you and you move home? Sounds like an adventure to me.

If I were in his place, I would follow her. Like you're saying, what would be the worst that happens anyway?

He would move back home and continue with his life.

beta

Post: #42

(03-02-2017 09:58 PM)BrewDog Wrote:  beta

4 years of dating same girl is not beta? Why would you want to lose a girl like that if she's the way he says? Most of the American guys miss opportunities like that way too many times and they end up moving to Eastern Europe to look for girls 10 years later.

Michigan is not a great place to live anyway. South Carolina would be better and warmer. I'll definitely move down there to try things with her.

Post: #43

I don't think she's moving because she wants to break up with you like some dudes are saying. At 20, even though she's an adult, she's still at the psychological and financial mercy of her parents.

I'm usually the biggest proponent of nexting a girl who steps out of line or doesn't show 100% respect. But I think this one is different. I think you should go.

Given you're not committed to your job and you're pretty young, this will be an adventure. Any mistakes will easily be recovered from. You know the risks. SC has pretty good weather, too. Even if it doesn't work out and you decide to stay, there are some good colleges in the state. BMW also has a big manufacturing plant in upstate SC if you're looking for a good job. They're always hiring.

Plus the women in SC are way better than in MI, IMO.

Here's my story: When I was 23 I moved to Ireland to be with a chick. The very worst thing that could happen happened - she dumped me. But it was an adventure of a lifetime. The journey there with unlimited hope. The adventure of discovering a new place. The knowledge that I could command the events of my own life, take bold action, and then even when things fell apart, still stand up on my feet and get my life back on track.

I wouldn't trade that experience for anything - and that was the worst case scenario. You can only go up from there.

Post: #44

Michigan has an economy 100x larger than South Carolina. The best schools in the world and the center of one of the largest industries in the world. The same dudes giving you misguided love advice are now arm chair economists.

You can roll the dice, but come back here in a year when you are broken up and give us a data sheet on why "following your heart" with a girl and your life was a giant mistake.

Post: #45

I'm going to go against the RFV frame here and give you some advice. I'll probably get flamed for this, but it's my opinion.

First off, decide what your life goals are. If you have a goal of marriage and children, take heed to this advice. If you don't, and want to play the field, disregard what I say.

A lot of guys are proponents of abundance mentality. While it's a good strategy for modern dating, I don't think it applies to this situation. I'm assuming by your 4 year timeframe that she's your high school sweetheart, a virgin when you met her (or close to it) and that you matured together over these past 4 years.

The truth is: You only get one of these in your life.

You probably won't find a 16 year old virgin again that believed in you when you were an 18 year old scrub making $35k a year. This is how almost all old-school marriages began, in high-school/college, building your life together, making sacrifices to be with each other. You're getting a lot of jaded views from players who have slept with hundreds of women, obviously a lot of the advice is going to be "ditch her." Then you have to run game on strangers, who have probably slept with multiple men, while you have a close to ideal marriage situation on your hands.

First, you need to have a talk with her about her future. If you want marriage/kids, now is the time to make a decision about it with her. If she shows any resistance, or signs of GIGS, get out. You need to determine what her parents think of you. Possibly talk it out with them, either you and her, or her alone. Getting into some stupid debt when you're 20 is not the end of the world. If you ever decide to get married, you'll face more challenging battles than this.

If she's serious about a future with you, and you want a future with her, you need to either make this move of have her move in with you. $18/hr is nothing, don't even consider this job when you have your future wife/children on the line.

I disagree with Vaun on this. Your family will still be there if this ends. Your dead-end job is not a reason to give this up if you determine that she actually wants to be with you. Don't be the guy that looks back on a great relationship and decided to ditch it for a menial factory job in Michigan. South Carolina is objectively better anyway.

The most you have to lose is an hourly factory job if you stay with her. If you leave her, you could lose a once in a lifetime relationship, IF marriage/kids is your goal. Take a look at the threads on this forum. Guys are looking abroad for wives, completely altering their lives around religious institutions they don't believe in just to find a girl like yours. Don't be the guy that looks back on this in 20 years after dating Tinder sluts and saying you made a mistake. Go all in.

I agree with everyone that says you need to challenge the situation. Ask her and her parents: what is the long term goal of us? If she's sure about you, don't give it up so easily. Where are you going to live? What will you do for a living? You can make $18/hr waiting tables, it's not like you have something great right now. You are young and have nothing significant going on in Michigan. Also, why does she have to move to South Carolina? What is significant debt? 10k? You'll rack up six figure debt in a mortgage easily if you ever decide to truly take the marriage plunge.

If you want marriage, you need to build out a timeframe with her for the next 2-3 years on when you will get engaged. Is she in college? You need to have her mind made up about the future, now. I've seen LDRs work pre-technology age, but it's probably a bad idea in this era, especially if it's not a specific time fram (minimum 6-12 months, that can carry on years.)

By the way, I'm very against marriage, but if it were one of my goals, I'd have done it with a situation like this.

Post: #46

Quote:but her parents are literally forcing her to move back to South Carolina.

This part bothers me the most, and it's not consistent with what you say later (more on that in a bit). Out of the LTRs I've had, one had parents who weren't quite overbearing, but more involved than I liked. I love it when a woman is close to her family, but there is a limit, and this, to me, exceeds it.

It also doesn't sound like you all were working towards anything together. I get it. You were young when you started dating then all of a sudden four years had passed. If you weren't looking to marry her soon, then when were you considering it? Another year or two? A man who's ready to make that leap and start a family knows by at least year two. Graft mentions old school marriages above, but nothing about this situation sounds like an old school marriage. It sounds more like a modern day high school sweetheart situation where they grew comfortable but weren't really looking toward the future, just merely floating along within their comfort zone.

Quote:Her debt is not entirely from the accident, she got a house with 2 other girls who come to find out are just low lives that don't pay rent, she works crazy hours at work and pays for majority of the bills. She also covers the other two girls rent when they don't have the money yet. Now her car is totaled, she's in a really shitty situation and is stressed as hell over everything. This, and given the fact she's only 20 years old I don't blame her for wanting to run back to Mom and Dad who she hasn't seen in almost two years. I've never given her any money to pay off debt, but I do what I can to make her life less stressful (take her out, fuck her like a porn star, workout together, ect. ect.) She keeps telling me how much she wants to make this work between us, and she's done so much already. Feelsbadman

The bold part is what I found inconsistent. Is she running back or is she being forced back? Due to your inconsistency, I'm leaning more towards it being her choice, with a bit of parental control involved. Here's the tough pill to swallow: If she really wanted to continue building a life with you, she would find a way to make shit work in Michigan. But instead, she's running off to South Carolina. Sure, she's comfortable within your relationship now, but there is no stability for her (not from you, anyway), and she recognizes that.

If you were truly her rock and ready to enter into marriage, then she would work with you to work out her problems. But you aren't her rock; her mother and father are. Don't take this hard because you're still very young and have a lot of life to live, but based on what I've read, you aren't prepared to take this relationship any further than it's current conclusion. You two have been comfortable together for four years. She's familiar and you're familiar. But now shit has gotten real for her, and you, at this point, aren't strong enough to wade her through rocky waters. That's why she's moving home. She probably wants you to come, but most likely due to your familiarity and not because you provide the strong support she needs.

This is the reality of the situation. I would take a hard, long look in the mirror and ask yourself if you're truly prepared to be the leader of a family. Be honest with yourself. It's okay if the answer is no. I answered no when I was a few years older than you, and that's why I broke it off with a girl I truly cared about. If the answer is no (and I have a strong feeling it is), then I'd stay where you are. There's no use in uprooting your life for a relationship that won't be built into a marriage and family.

To further illustrate my point, I'm going to add what I've seen from some successful marriages. When I have talked to wives within good marriages, I have found consistency in their answers for what they like most about their husbands (and this can be hard to come by with women). The main thing I hear is something along the lines of "he's dependable" "he's reliable" "he makes me feel safe." Even so-called "strong and independent" women are terrified, weak little creatures who, deep down, know they have no chance once a true threat comes their way. This is why I say that she needs to see you as a rock. She can lean on you within any situation and you never buckle.

An ex of mine and I were driving through a snow storm. She was behind the wheel and I was passed out in the passenger seat after skiing all day. I wake up because she's freaking out. It's a fucking blizzard, the road is all white, you can't see any lanes, and you can barely see two feet in front of you. I tried to get her to pull off, but she wouldn't because you could barely tell the road from a potential snow bank. So I calmly talked her through it. I kept my eyes peeled, kept her calm, and walked her through what to do. We made it home safe. She later told me how much she admired my calmness through the whole situation. The fact was, I was terrified, but I didn't let it show. This is a part of frame maintenance that is rarely talked about: when you're overwhelmed, but make her believe you've got it.

Your girlfriend is in a shitty situation. If she's turning to her parents for guidance instead of you, then she doesn't see you as that calming force to help her weather the storm. This is why moving to SC, in my opinion, is pointless. You aren't ready to take this relationship to the next level. It's merely a comfortable situation for you both since you've been together so long, but it's probably not going anywhere. If she truly saw you as dependable and reliable, then she would have handled the problem with you.

Post: #47

Quote:You probably won't find a 16 year old virgin again that believed in you when you were an 18 year old scrub making $35k a year. This is how almost all old-school marriages began, in high-school/college, building your life together, making sacrifices to be with each other. You're getting a lot of jaded views from players who have slept with hundreds of women, obviously a lot of the advice is going to be "ditch her." Then you have to run game on strangers, who have probably slept with multiple men, while you have a close to ideal marriage situation on your hands.

This. There's a time to play it cool and there's a time for bold, courageous action. This is the time for action.

Post: #48

OP I'm curious, do you have a good relationship with her parents ? You never answered me on that.

I have a feeling there might be more to this story than we know.

What I'm getting at is maybe her parents are using this as an excuse to get her away from him.


As far some saying go, you might regret it, can I remind you OP is ONLY 22 ? Seriously.

Post: #49

I know you're attached to this one, but you're both young and based on your posts, it's probably not going to work out. Your first real love is always going to be different than the rest of them. I only have four years on you, but I'll never forget the first one I really fell for. Don't blame yourself, but it sounds like she at least made some part of the decision of leaving.

Based on the limited information, your best bet is going to be breaking up. Yeah it'll suck, but you have to get through it.

(03-02-2017 03:16 PM)Deadlifts Wrote:  What would you guys do?

You don't sound like you're happy where you're at in life. Shake things up. Pack up and move somewhere you've always dreamed of living. Last year I said fuck it, packed my bags, left Wisconsin and moved to where I had always dreamed of living. Now I wake up and look at mountains every morning when I walk my dog. The details will work themselves out. The long, cold, gray winters in the Upper Midwest will fuck with you.

You need to get some perspective. If you don't want to relocate, take a week or two off and go somewhere you've always wanted to go. Sit on a beach, mountain top, or wherever gets your heart and mind pumping. Figure out what you want to do with your life. Whatever it is, it's not the manufacturing job you're currently working.

No one looks back on their life and wishes they would've made the safe choice.

Post: #50

My take is a variation on Serious Sam's excellent and thoughtfully delivered analysis.

My personal analysis will not be delivered so thoughtfully.

Dad to mom: She's been with this chump for four years and no ring? She's A-grade marriage material and she's wasting the best years of her life waiting on some little boy to grow up. If we don't do something soon she's going to end up un-marriageable and miserable for the rest of her life. You need to convince her of that or I'm going to go down there with a shotgun and sort this mess out one way or another.

Mom to daughter: (same gist but more gently delivered with advice on what bullshit story to attach to her decision to go home, ala "my parents are making me")

Daughter: "I'm in lots of debt and my parents are making me come home".

For reals, we had another thread where a guy had strung along a single notch girl (the op) for ten fucking years between age 19 and 29 IIRC. Viewed in this lens it's pretty obvious that OP's former GF is protecting her future.

Now I'm not saying this to shame OP. I'm saying it so that he can get his head straight about the nature of this issue, because if he turns up in SC and says "baby, let's fuck around for another four years while you rocket toward the wall" then he might be really confused when she tells him "go back to Michigan", or worse yet, her Dad tells him in more explicit terms.