I don't want to believe this, but I would like some proof of hot women with not "successful" (by society's typical rich/famous definition) men to go against this.

But I suppose that's due to some sort of selection bias, in that only rich/famous men get coverage, and therefore we only see the female-acquisition results of said men.

Another week gents.

^Have you travelled?

A tad, but not in the way others here have (by themselves, intent on gaming).

And I mean like a specific example of a real life person who I could Google. But that gets back to the selection bias issue I mentioned.

(02-26-2017 09:33 AM)MaceTyrell Wrote:  I don't want to believe this, but I would like some proof of hot women with not "successful" (by society's typical rich/famous definition) men to go against this.

But I suppose that's due to some sort of selection bias, in that only rich/famous men get coverage, and therefore we only see the female-acquisition results of said men.

Another week gents.

Here is Christina Hendricks from Mad Men and her husband, some small time actor Geoffrey Arend



3. Mariah Carey

Nick Cannon is not a particularly good looking dude. We do know that he's relatively funny and a hard worker.



.............................

A female 10, we can debate till the cows come home.
But overall we agree that looks matter the most. That's why women spend BILLIONS OF DOLLARS on trying to look good.

When it comes to a male 10? They say they want a #JailBae - but when good looking guys are in the venue - when good looking guys approach w/o the proper behavior - the chick gets turned off.

Nicki Minaj could show up in paper bag, no make up, looking like hell, stank attitude - i'm still gonna see her bone structure and positive posterior. She can't turn me off.

Men are different than women.
Women think different.

If you understand the life of a moderately attractive woman - she gets offers for dick all day. Business men and meatheads - it's just not enough to "look the part", to have the money, etc. If you look at her list of requirements, it just grows longer and longer and longer.

But when you look at who she's fucking - ol boy is gonna miss 95% of the stuff on the list.

WIA

Archie is right but I would disagree Nick Cannon not being top tier on looks. Lots of lizards like that look..the Trey Songs type of look.

However with bagging lizards, game now kicks in when it comes to spanning in different groups. Some guys are king of their heap (hoodrat slayers, valley girl slayers) but when they move into a different crowd..let's say an international crowd or a group of Asian stunners, they are unable to calibrate to that circle due to being specialists and confusing that with being game.

Regarding Mariah, she is also over the hills, she was 40 something when Nick bagged her, I know the new era guys are big on banging these mummies but on the grand scale of things, Mariah is way past her sell by date.

Looks vs game

Money vs game

This never ends, we have a lot of non believers it seems.

Nick and Mariah aren't even together now, he looks goofy and she is well past her sell date.

Mariah recently broke up with some Oz billionaire, what's with these rich guys.

(02-26-2017 03:57 AM)Excelsior Wrote:  

Quote:"If you want the upper echelon of women, you gotta ante up."

Quote:26:00: "How you gonna get a Lambo and treat it like a Kia? You want high peformance vehicles, you gotta have high performance money. That's how it works."

Without using the most harsh terms, he's just affirming the social narrative.
I've gotten on people here for that shit, but nowadays? Why bother?

You can't convince most people by showing them evidence.

MOST is the key word here.

Since most people never notice their own confirmation bias, that's an opportunity for a player to take advantage of them.

That's why Instagram game is so powerful. You can market yourself as anything, and she sells herself on the dream. The girls in your pictures, make you look handsome. The sushi on the plate, makes you look rich. Getting a shot of you behind the wheel of a Porsche...

He must be handsome, look at the girls
He must be rich, look at the pictures

Maybe all you have is a late model benz and a nice suit. Take her someplace exotic - and she'll think you're an international playboy.

None of it is real. But it only needs to be real for the night.

WIA

(02-25-2017 05:39 AM)Fury Wrote:  Yesterday I was on a date with this pretty Cape Verde girl when she posed an interesting question: Would I be cool with my girlfriend dancing with other men?

Now to answer this question one definitely needs context. She is a Salsa/Kizomba dancer and has been doing it for years, with both styles of dance requiring close proximity of both partners. Now, I have been to a few salsa clubs and it really isn't that bad if both partners are being respectful; hell, a friend wanted me dance with his wife one night. However, Kizomba is slightly different as it is a more sensual dance, almost akin to dry humping:

Kizomba

I know that for me I don't mind dating any Latin dancers since I really don't care what that girl does when she is not kicking it with me. However, I have reservations about having a LTR with a Latin dancer because logically it is a recipe for disaster. It is widely known, especially among us here on the forum, that guys typically join these scenes to meet women. More so with kizomba here in the Netherlands, where the kizomba scene is like ground zero of Jungle Fever.

So my question to you is what are your thoughts? Would you wife up a Kizomba dancer even if you were not involved in the scene and didn't care much for dancing?




Side note: During the date the Cape Verde girl mentioned how it would be easy for me in the kizomba scene, as it is full of white Dutch women who are extremely open to dark chocolate. It is something I have thought about but I don't care enough for dancing to actually go out and take classes just to meet women. Honestly I don't have any hobbies (outside of traveling) that afford me the opportunity to socialize with girls. I just do the gym, brazilian jiu jitsu, motorcycles, and go to live jazz sessions.

You weren't kidding about Kizomba in the Netherlands...that place is perfect for Brothers....I also like the laid back atmosphere...if I were going to start a social circle it would be right here...

(02-26-2017 01:44 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

(02-26-2017 03:57 AM)Excelsior Wrote:  

Quote:"If you want the upper echelon of women, you gotta ante up."

Quote:26:00: "How you gonna get a Lambo and treat it like a Kia? You want high peformance vehicles, you gotta have high performance money. That's how it works."

Without using the most harsh terms, he's just affirming the social narrative.
I've gotten on people here for that shit, but nowadays? Why bother?

You can't convince most people by showing them evidence.

MOST is the key word here.

Since most people never notice their own confirmation bias, that's an opportunity for a player to take advantage of them.

That's why Instagram game is so powerful. You can market yourself as anything, and she sells herself on the dream. The girls in your pictures, make you look handsome. The sushi on the plate, makes you look rich. Getting a shot of you behind the wheel of a Porsche...

He must be handsome, look at the girls
He must be rich, look at the pictures

Maybe all you have is a late model benz and a nice suit. Take her someplace exotic - and she'll think you're an international playboy.

None of it is real. But it only needs to be real for the night.

WIA

Great point, it's not always about who you are but who she perceives you to be. It's smoke and mirrors in a way but if it gets results I suppose that's the only thing that matters.

Great content on the new podcasts btw, you guys are chopping it up in a fresh way. Long may it continue

Archie is 100% right on the Instagram...

This is why I am trying to re do my entire Insta.. I built a good one up for fashion but its absolutely useless for attracting girls.

I have also recently started heavily testing Tinder, getting some results (with only 1 picture up) and just as I thought it is the FRONT LINES of getting opportunities. I am not saying you shouldn't go out and game anymore but I can now see why guys have been getting so lazy about night game, day game and the like.

I met a girl on there today who DOESNT EVEN SPEAK ENGLISH and she asked me about meeting me at my hotel when I am in her city this coming week.

If you can hone your Tinder game down perfectly the amount of girls you can reach and possibly close is light years ahead of what you can reach at anytime in a nightclub.

Initial drawbacks correspond exactly to what other guys are saying.. I think the quality is there.. I found many attractive girls but hard as fuck to match with them since competition is stiff and its a girls market.

Its gonna be a long process but I am gonna work on additional pictures and hopefully a new instagram and see if I can get Tinder to work as good as I am in the clubs.

(02-26-2017 03:18 PM)BecomingTheDragon Wrote:  Great point, it's not always about who you are but who she perceives you to be. It's smoke and mirrors in a way but if it gets results I suppose that's the only thing that matters.

Great content on the new podcasts btw, you guys are chopping it up in a fresh way. Long may it continue

When you get down to it, it's all smoke and mirrors... on both sides.

Even when the chick is flawless, no make up, no nothing.
She watch her struggling when she puts her pants on, it just kills the spell

Bitches know that diarrhea or flatulence can END the romance, no matter how fine she is.

WIA

(02-26-2017 04:40 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  Bitches know that diarrhea or flatulence can END the romance, no matter how fine she is.

This is so on the money it literally made me LOL.

I remember when I was 8-9 years old and thought my aunt was so beautiful and pretty and perfect, till one day I made the mistake of going to the loo after she'd just been. That ended my obsession with her, and its repeated a few times over the years with other folks.

(02-26-2017 05:33 PM)Wahawahwah Wrote:  

(02-26-2017 04:40 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  Bitches know that diarrhea or flatulence can END the romance, no matter how fine she is.

This is so on the money it literally made me LOL.

I remember when I was 8-9 years old and thought my aunt was so beautiful and pretty and perfect, till one day I made the mistake of going to the loo after she'd just been. That ended my obsession with her, and its repeated a few times over the years with other folks.

Lawd, did she spray that bowl with the brown stuff? Did she coat that porcelain idol like an invasive brown pestilence?

It was like a gas chamber bruv, I'd legit have died if I stayed longer than 30 secs. Also, after that event I stopped reading Asterix and Obelix since she used to read it to me and I was like fuck that shit, metaphorically.

Happy to see WIA co-sign on Instagram game. There's something almost video game like about it.

Reading that "power of an amazing physique" thread, one thing I've realized, is a lot of guys want the game to be a science when it's really more of an art.

(02-26-2017 07:11 PM)the high Wrote:  Reading that "power of an amazing physique" thread, one thing I've realized, is a lot of guys want the game to be a science when it's really more of an art.

It's also not a coincidence that girls are more into art..

@Becomingthedragon - thanks again for the nice words and give us the scoop on South Africa.

(02-26-2017 01:09 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  Looks vs game

Money vs game

This never ends, we have a lot of non believers it seems.

People are still talking about this because it is relevant. I sense a tendency around for folks to want to dodge the topic (either because they find it has been overdone or just isn't productive), and I get that, but I don't really think that is the right way forward. I, frankly, do not see how one can have a truly complete, productive, high-level discussion of game without also making significant room for the financial (and physical) aspect of things. There's a middle ground between "let's not talk about money vs. game at all here" and "hey look I bought a Porsche, I don't need game now lol" schools of thought that I think may be missing here.

With regard to game, I don't believe one need be a "non-believer" in order to discuss looks/money vs. game. I'm certainly a believer in game - I've seen first hand examples of men with money or looks (or even both) falling over easy hurdles because they lack a basic understanding of game. Similarly, I've seen men with limited funds and relatively pedestrian physical appearances outperform richer, better looking men. There's plenty of evidence out there to debunk the "game doesn't matter when you have money/looks/status" crowd.

I think there is a tendency in the game community to underrate the value of wealth, looks, and other proxies of status in weighing a man's success. These things are not absolutely necessary to succeed - again, I've seen that first hand and WIA also helpfully illustrated the fact that even the mere appearance of wealth (absent actual funds) can be enough to do the trick. You don't absolutely NEED money/looks/other proxies of status to do consistently well with very attractive women. Game (either via force of personality or that combined with the guile necessary to "fake it til you make it" like WIA noted) can get you far.

As I've gotten older, however, I've started to see some limits to that. While one doesn't absolutely need money/status/etc, it has become abundantly clear to me that there is a VERY strong correlation between a man's ability to attain said status and his ability to keep consistent quality. In observing the game, I've seen that men who have these things tend to, in the aggregate, have a much higher batting average (when it comes to pursuing attractive women and finding success) than those who don't. It's just unavoidable. As Obsidian said, beauty costs - fine women are expensive to get and expensive to maintain, and they tend (more often than not) toward men for whom said expenses are relatively less consequential (or, at least, will soon be).

In my experience (and yes, I'm younger than most of you but old enough to generate what I'd call a solid sample size for conclusion making at this point), there's nothing much more powerful than a guy who has a full grasp of game fundamentals at least at the basic level (or better) and actual wealth/status displayed as passive value. A guy with intermediate (or better) game and not much in the way of money or other markers of status can do well, but a guy with that same level of game combined with financial means AND the knowledge/savvy needed to display it in accordance with the most effective passive value methodologies (a savvy that, admittedly, is probably at least in some part a measure that overlaps with one's game) is just much, much better off.

I find there's just a tendency to focus on exceptions to the rule in these discussions ("I know this one dude who pulled dimes but he was short and ugly"), but exceptions prove the rule. That rule is that if you really want to ensure that the women you get with are always attractive (or beyond that, raging up to downright stunning), you need to up the ante.

Fortunately, there are ways to do that without ACTUALLY upping the ante, necessarily. One way is to "fake-it-til-you-make-it". Another is to simply play the geo-arbitrage game, leveraging big disparities between western nations like the USA and those in the developed world to generate a return (read: taking advantage of the fact that your average NYC or DC income makes you a one percenter in most nations and thus can put you in the "man of means" category the minute you step off the plane).

But, either way, I think upping the ante is needed, and we should all definitely talk about that. It can't be left out of these discussions.

Excelsior, it CAN be left out of the discussion because you can't do anything about it. You can NOT improve your looks. If you look like Flavor Flav, no matter how much you intellectualise the process, no matter how much you whine, you will not suddenly look like Tyson Beckford..point blank.

If you are working a decent job making 150K per annum as a 25 year old, you will seem like a pauper if you are in a room rammed full of A-list Hollywood actors, Jamie Foxx, Kevin Hart, Matthew Mcconaughley. No matter how hard you complain, no matter how hard you think, you will NOT change your financial situation there.

The area of improvement in which you can contend, where you can 'up the ante' is the psychological aspect of the field..game. Game can shift odds in your favour and open up the field. There is no point bringing up other stuff as that is intellectual masturbation. Observe the no fap rule on that. No matter how you word it, spin it and spice it, it still boils right back down to game.

When I lived in Miami, I went out hunting quite often (at least twice a week) and I remember an occasion went to a club where the lizards there were clearly out for white guys. I saw a white forum member with strong frame pull a sexy latina in the club and later on that night, they were kissing. I was happy for him as I am for any of my brothers. I myself, approached every decent thing in that club and struck out like John Stockton trying to 360 dunk on Mutombo.

The only thing that entered my mind as I lucked out in that club was that I need to tighten up my game. My release needs to be quicker and more fluid like Drazen Petrovic jumper. I don't need to be taller, whiter nor richer. Isaiah Thomas (5'9 allstar for the Boston Celtics) doesn't go in the game wishing he was bigger and taller and could jump higher. He is finished growing. He takes more shots in practice, stays in the gym longer and does wind sprints, pushups, box jumps, stretches, watches tapes of players with his size and build with his role (see where I am going here?) so that when the buzzer sounds and the game is done, he has dropped 30 points and 8 dimes on the opposing team. Stop watching tapes of Deandre Jordan if you are built like Dwayne Wade.

What could I have done in that instance where I lucked out in the club? I could change venue to find lizards who like my flavour and also holla at lizards on the street, in the gas station, on the way home. The more shots I take, the more comfortable I feel and look when I splash in that casual three from 30 feet out.

Don't go in the game expecting to get lighter. You black, done. Don't expect height. You are done growing. The current lizard I am talking to says she wants men 6 feet and over yet her ex was a 5'4 guy who fcuked the shyt out of her holes. Don't expect infinite money to manifest in your pocket, what you have is what is there. I meet lizards who want men who have their shyt together but these lizards ferry these guys from their grandmothers' houses, get fcuked in their own 2017 Merc, get fcuked again in their own house and then drop these guys back home with some money to tide them over till they 'get back on their feet'.

What I am trying to say from my Miami story is if the lizards in that club liked the white guy or white guys in general, then my game just needs to be tighter. Anytime I fail, I drill the issue down to tightening my game.

So you say even with game, I could luck out in that club. You are right. But if my game is tight, I never stop spitting and thus I will have had a steady stream of lizards in the pipelines so I am really just scouting for new talent while I already have Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan, Lebron James, Tim Duncan and Shaq in their primes raring to go. My refresh rate as a result will be insane. Michael Jordan slacking off on defense or takes too many days off to play golf and gamble, I bench him and bring on Kobe Bryant. Shaq talking smack and slacking off to shoot Kazaam and nyam fast food, I bench him and bring on Wilt Chamberlain. Because my reservoir is so deep, I am not stressing when I go to Kwame Brown's high school to possibly recruit and he tells me to take a hike because he wants to play for a Turkish team.

I see rough Nigerians and Jamaicans constantly roll off the ship fresh as fcuk and start smashing white lizards prematurely. If I were to complain to them about my shortcomings in not being able to get gyal, they laugh at me like I'm some sarf fish and chips eating loafter and they are right. The rough Naija or Jamo guy pulling lizards is not pulling them cos lizards like rough guys, he is pulling lizards because he doesn't give a fcuk, has immutable self confidence. Often a lizard ends up spreading for a guy because the guy she likes didn't have the scrotum contents to go up and claim his prize. She ends up sleeping with who is available and had the gall to approach her and propose his penis instead with whom she really desired.

What will say I notice is that as we enter the tail end of the winter months, some of you lot start whining on irrational stuff. I am blessed to be in the tropics but I spent decades in countries with crappy spirit sapping winter seasons so I totally understand. But bear in mind that since your rationales are very likely shifted due to environment and dig deeper, turn on your sun lamps and stick to game principles and allow this winter blow over.

In summary, you have to accept that game is the answer and learn it, there are no ifs and buts about it. If you deny it, you continue to be the prey instead of the predator.

So many gems in this.

I can tell winter is coming to an end, because I have started thinking about how I can use next winter "properly" for game ( 1) even more house calls/dates, if even I don't bang just to build comfort, and hey I am going to be most comfortable in my space, 2) social game around seminal winter events i.e. New Years, Super Bowl, All Star Game, Oscars Night, 3) Stack bread, cause club game is just annoying as fuck in the winter, especially in NYC).

Also, to go back to my money comment (and to go off on a slight tangent), I'm not saying that money IS the answer, but it can amplify an approach. Like holding constant your game, if every night you went out you had $200 that you could blow no problem. That's more drinks for you, to get you in the mood. That's a round of shots for your boys, to get you in the mood (and build social proof). That's a nicer shirt you can wear out that night, which builds social proof.

One of my biggest issues I have with myself as I look back on my "game"/ approach to women is that I haven't used my dollars properly - for the amount of money I've forked over on poon, and the lessons I've learned in hindsight, my dollar-per-pussy ratio should be much higher

I pregame hard and just take a few "99 apples" mini bar shot thingys in my pockets. Order a water, drink half of it, pour the shot in it and sip on it. If I end up gaming a girl I'll buy drinks at that point. But if I'm just getting myself a drink I'm not putting down shit for some owner to buy himself a new car.

Call me cheap but that shit saved me about $500 over two weeks while keeping my social/night life completely intact.

Gem. Gem. Gem.

Better yet, just packing a flask into your jacket and making your go to drink on the fly.

Yea but that is low alcohol % (20-25%). 99 Apples is 50%. You spread 3 of those out over 4 hours and you can coast through the night. best part is they're $1.25

edit: my +1 from friday night cost me $2.50 and a few free drinks from bartenders I knew

(02-26-2017 10:00 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  @Becomingthedragon - thanks again for the nice words and give us the scoop on South Africa.

Sure I can give a quick breakdown. I'll speak primarily about Cape Town and a bit about Johannesburg.

Most guys make use of social circle game here in SA but you will find guys in the clubs trying to get with drunk girls. It's not too difficult because the girls are thirsty. I'll start with what types of girls you get this side of the world.

Types of girls
-White girls: They typically come in 2 flavours, English and Afrikaans. Afrikaans girls are usually more conservative and not that open to exploring outside their race. English girls on the other hand are a bit more open to brothers and are generally easier to talk to than Afrikaans girls. Most have European features and would probably be considered the most desirable by many.

- "Coloured" girls: In South Africa the term coloured refers to a race of people an is not seen as offensive (as it is everywhere else in the world). Typically they look similar to Puerto Rican or Dominican Republic girls (mestizo is the word I believe Americans use) and can range anywhere between super hot to . They are open to dating outside their race however and I noticed that guys of all races are attracted to coloured girls. Coloured girls get their unique look from when Jan van Riebeeck came from Holland and sampled some of the indigenous chocolate that was here.

- Indian girls: Not too many in Cape Town, most Indian people stay in Durban and Joburg (Durban has the highest concentration of Indians outside of India) There are some seriously attractive Indian women here but you're better off going to Durban if you enjoy spicy food.

- Muslim girls: Similar to coloured girls but have a more middle eastern look about them. I categorize as muslim more by their culture as opposed to their religion. Don't let that put you off though, for most it's just an act and they are down for a bit of fun. The very attractive ones are generally stuck up but that's why game exists.

- Black girls: Not the best in Africa, black girls tend to be lower on the attractiveness totem pole. I've noticed that black girls tend to look better in Joburg (possibly due to there being more money in Joburg) so if chocolate is your flavour, go to Joburg.

- Foreign girls: I'll mention foreign girls as well because places like Cape Town have them in abundance (particularly at places like the V&A Waterfront). A lot of them also have jungle fever particularly if you go out to clubs in long street. The Waterfront is always packed with tourists because of how much bang for their buck they're getting. Definitely a good place to daygame.

Appeal for foreigners
Value for money is the only reason that's needed to come to South Africa. Cape Town is probably the number one place to come and spend some of your hard-earned dollars. The rand dollar exchange rate is about R13 to $1. So to put that into context you can get a good quality craft beer (like an Amber Weiss) for about $3-4. The tourist attractions are also appealing.

Activities like hiking up Table Mountain or going up with the cable car, wine tasting at the farms in stellenbosch, the old biscuit mill in woodstock (similar to a marketplace) and all kinds of restaurants and entertainment at the V&A Waterfront. Neighborhoods is also good in Joburg, similar to the old biscuit mill but with more food to eat and a better social vibe with live bands, good food and wine.

Clubs
I'm not a big clubber but the popular places where people go to party is long street, loop street, kloof street and bree street. These are all in Cape Town and it's basically just a street with whole bunch of clubs, bars and restaurants. Very popular with the student crowds and there's always some type of activity happening. There's also a wide range of clubs and pubs; there's football pubs, trance clubs, dive bars, craft beer houses and also good restaurants.

In stellenbosch there is a big university crowd because all the clubs are on campus. Wednesday night is student night and the popular joints are Catwalk (popular "sokkie" [similar to ballroom dancing] venue), Springboks (typical dive bar), Entourage (popular with the coloured and black crowd) and Nu'bar (not my favourite but drinks are cheap). Stellenbosch is mostly afrikaans people (racism is still an issue here) but that shouldn't stop you from going out that side of the world. Good social skills, good game and being in good shape will generally get you good results (Gym culture is huge in Stellies - along with drinking)

Cape Town vs Joburg
I've only been to Joburg a few times for work but I find the people there to be more friendly (ie greeting you when you in the lift) just basic etiquette. The more wealthy crowd live in Joburg because the pay is better but the crime rate is also higher. That shouldn't stop you from visiting as long as you keep your wits about you should be fine. Cape Town people are more laid back vs Joburg people who are work hard and play hard. Where the clubs might be popping during the week in Cape Town, it will be dead in Joburg as people generally work longer hours.

This was just a quick breakdown but all in all I would say visit South Africa, particularly Cape Town and Joburg as it is one of the more first-class experiences you'll have in Africa. Don't let the news put you off about South Africa, it's still a great country (with some minor problems). Also the favourable exchange rate alone is worth coming to South Africa. Hope this helps.