Post: #251

(01-19-2017 04:46 AM)kirdiesel Wrote:  The order in my of importance for women in my experience of game is this:

1. Height
2. Face (not sure if i should add hair to this)
3. Body

As long as YOUR GAME and those features are in line you will get 8+ without problems.

Can't get an 8 or above? (I have trouble myself) One of those are out of standard.

I've seen guys lacking in one or more of those traits still walking arm-in-arm with 8+ looking women, but usually that was through social circle game or by exercising some other privilege, eg, white guy with a cute Asian FOB etc.

The other remaining option is to switch the market you're competing in, which is what the Travel forum on this board is all about. In places like Asia, your status as a first-world guy helps, and maybe even your height won't be such a hindrance.

Post: #252

(01-19-2017 04:46 AM)kirdiesel Wrote:  The order in my of importance for women in my experience of game is this:

1. Height
2. Face (not sure if i should add hair to this)
3. Body

I'd go:

1. Status/Notoriety
2. Face
2.5. Height
3. Body

I put Status/Notoriety first because guys like Tom Hardy and Dan Bilzerian are both 5'9 and fucking slay. Yes, they are celebrities but it ties into status. Take the 'bad boy' cliché as example of notoriety. I've known average to below average looking short guys 'rumored' (I say rumored because I never confirmed) to have a big dick have girls chase them because they want to experience a big dick.

And I'd put face aesthetics over height but just barely. Two of these things guys can control; so to argue if body is important/not important is kind of irrelevant...you should maximize your odds to better your chances at winning. Having a good body won't hurt you in the end. Having a fat, out of shape body will.

Post: #253

There is a huge difference between a guy in good shape and a bodybuilder.

Talking about body fat makes no sense, very few guys have under 10% body fat.

If face is so important, why do I see so many decent looking guys dating down. I also see good looking guys struggling.

Talking about movie stars and celebrities does not translate into the real world, not my world at least.

Tall guys have an advantage, black girls love tall men.

Do you guys date girls with pretty faces and no bodies?

I will not waste time with a girl that does not turn me on phsyically, therefore she must have a nice body.

Post: #254

It's not just how women see you. It's about how you see yourself. I added about 10+ pounds of lean muscle after 6 months of 6 days a week in the gym (push,pull, legs, repeat, Sunday off) I ate a whole chicken everyday after the gym and had my diet in check. I got my body fat measured an I was at 8 and a half percent. An not only did I daily get comments or questions about my physique, I felt like a fucking beast. You can't tell someone about the way it makes you feel, they just have to quit with the "Muscles dont matter" mindset and get big and have their eyes opened to the life of a beast.

I'll never go back to being normal, normal sucks

Post: #255

^Thread Closed.

+1 from me

Post: #256

Yeah, physique is a game changer. The main problem for me is that as I've grown older (into early 30s) I find myself getting minor injuries more often, that keep me out the gym and spoil my gains. I've tailored and decreased the workload as the years have gone by but I struggle to gain consistency now due to minor injuries. I think some of it is also work related, given my long time spent on the computer. As a result, I've started to focus on things (hairstyle, clothes) but nothing is as powerful as physique.

Post: #257

(01-19-2017 11:09 AM)rudebwoy Wrote:  There is a huge difference between a guy in good shape and a bodybuilder.

Talking about body fat makes no sense, very few guys have under 10% body fat.

If face is so important.

You somewhat contradicted yourself. If few guys have body fat under 10% and most guys aren't close to bodybuilder status, then clearly face is important. Do you have any extremely handsome friends? Even short guys with model level facial aesthetics can get hot women. Roosh V even has a post on how players don't realize how easy it is for good looking men. Must be an ego thing. It's hard to swallow for a lot of guys in the community that a guy with little game or social skills can consistently pull better quality and quantity than him with less effort due to being blessed with great genetics (height, hair, face, jawline, bone structure).

I've seen it before. Good looking guys really do have it that easy.

Not to say looks can't be overcome, but it won't come without massive effort and dedication over extended periods of time. True game is based on experience and balls.

As for having muscles while I think they're overrated I did state in my post that it's more important the confidence it gives me than any actual influence on female attraction. I think from a purely scientific and biological sense, being lean and slightly muscular is almost the same for attracting most women as being really buff. Then again I'm a buff guy and the idea of being small makes me sick. I honestly look at scrawny and out of shape guys like they're pussies most of the time.

(01-19-2017 11:09 AM)rudebwoy Wrote:  Talking about movie stars and celebrities does not translate into the real world, not my world at least.

100% agreed. Celebrities don't apply to game discussions.

(01-19-2017 11:09 AM)rudebwoy Wrote:  Do you guys date girls with pretty faces and no bodies?

All the time. A girl with a gorgeous face and isn't scrawny or overweight can easily be up to an 8. You trippin. Body for most guys is an added bonus. Most guys would rather have a girl with a gorgeous face and unimpressive body on their arms than the opposite.

Post: #258

^^^Same here. Sometimes you have to take a week or two off when you are going hard constantly. I was nursing a pulled bicept, a shoulder ache, and a sore wrist from going hard as hell for 9 months straight. I was forced to take 2 weeks off due to career issues and at the end of two weeks all the injuries had resolved themselves. Prior to my forced time off I was "working around" my injuries still going hard as fuck 2 hours a day in the gym, I understand now at 41 I gotta pull back and take time off occasionally when you get injured. It is hard to pull back for me because gym time is when I clear my head and get the stress out. I am a fucking maniac when I get in there, on some Chaos and Pain type shit. There is no substitute for a beast level, hardcore body, well conditioned and post cut cycle-The women love it on a viceral level, it is truly a subconcious attraction for them.

Post: #259

(01-19-2017 12:11 PM)Unchained Wrote:  Most guys would rather have a girl with a gorgeous face and unimpressive body on their arms than the opposite.

Certainly when it comes to long term relationships. There was a study that the NYTimes wrote about that backs you up:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/07/fashio...UDIED.html

Post: #260

(01-19-2017 03:10 AM)Unchained Wrote:  Also I got higher quality girls when I was a scrawny drug dealer than I do now that I'm a buff as fuck career guy. Bitches are fuckin stupid.

Yes yes yes yes yes yes....

Updated pie chart:

40% Face
25% Time Spent / Daily Access with Hot Chicks
20% Game
10% Height (barring being below 5'8")
5% Body (barring fat ass)

There we go.

Yeah a lean, built physique does indeed help your face by leaning out the jaw, a more built neck, shoulders, better neck/shoulder posture etc...frames the face much better.

Other than getting to that point though your time is much better spent increasing your time around hot girls and upping your game. If you don't spend a lot of time around hot girls you really can't up your game so that comes first.

I know I sound like a gym denier, probably out of a room of 100 guys in their prime (in a Southern California beach town - mind you) I am probably in the top 5-10 as far as being in shape.

Post: #261

Body is as important as face in a woman for me, probably a bit more important. Like Rudebwoy said, when I see great bodies it just brings something animal out of me. Most girls with great bodies tend to have at least decent faces though for some reason.

On the physique debate, I've gained a fair bit of muscle in my upper body over the last year or so after taking boxing less seriously, and getting more serious about strength training. Having naturally low bodyfat, I'd say I'm looking pretty decent, and on the rare occasion it's warm enough for me to take off my jacket, I'm definitely getting more IOIs (been felt up several times, get looked up and down, little comments, etc.), but if my game isn't sharp, I still lose them like I'd lose any other girl. My personal belief is that physique, height, style, face, pre-selection, and status are all important (pre-selection and status probably being the most potent off that list), but none of those will keep a girl engaged for long the way that good game does. It's also very hard to get good at.

Of the men that get the highest quality that I know from nightlife, none of them are in particularly good shape, but they are forces of nature personality-wise, with humour and a really strong drive to pull.

Post: #262

Travesty - so you are saying having a nice body counts for 5%!

Yet, you claim to have a body in the 5 to 10% range of guys in Southern California. LOL

How is the wife hunting abroad panning out for you?

Post: #263

^ Exactly. I am saying that once you are not a fat ass it does not count for nearly as much as the other categories.

A guy that hangs around hot girls every day either for work, socially, or both with good/great game will always get more hot chicks than a gym rat that works with all men and doesn't go out much because he is worried alcohol or late nights that ruin his workouts.

The guys I see with the hottest girls have the best looking faces, go out the most (5+ days a week) to mingle with hot girls, and have game. In that priority order.

All I am saying is putting yourself in front of hot girls constantly, and improving your game with an average body, goes much further than ignoring those two to focus on your physique.

I am advocating if you spend 2 hours (plus commute) at the gym 3 times a week and do massive cooking prep, writing workout diaries, watching fitness videos, spending lots of time infront of the mirror wondering if you look better than 2 months ago, pass up social opportunities because it interferes with getting that next PR session etc... you are blowing it when you could be doing an intense 20 minute workout a day at home, not care as much about stuffing your face with chicken breast, and get out there to hang with hot chicks and game (ie having a SnapChat-following worthy lifestyle of socializing with the upper-tier crowd and going to events).

I think of improving my body to my overall game of getting girls like I compare getting a protein shake in after a workout to help build my body. Yeah it helps. Ultimately very small piece of the puzzle though in getting total results.

Here's a serious question: you have a guy with an average build, average face, average game. He has 1 year to 20 bang hot girls or he is thrown off an aircraft carrier into a swirling ocean drain full of hungry sharks.

How would you advise him to do this and live? Eat chicken breast and deadlift? Steroids? I'd buy him a few outfits, get a good haircut/groom, some posture/voice tips, then would tell him to get out in day game and night game and talk to as many hot girls as possible while making friends with social king males - while advising him with game tactic tips...

I honestly am not sure I would even advise him to workout much at all to save energy. Maybe 20 push ups / 20 air squats 3 times a week, and some light cardio 15 min, 3 times a week. Good sleep, that's it. I'd want him to conserve as much energy as possible to put up with girls' bullshit and be able to socialize for 5+ hour lengths 5x + a week with a good level of energy.

What priorities would you have him focus on?

---

Wife hunting: Very eye opening. It has been nice so far. I really like Vietnamese girls, may try a stint out there. Going this spring to check out the Balkans and compare. Every country and even major city has very unique personalities and vibes. Glad I expanded my view this early in life to see what is out there, also reminds me not to put up with bullshit from American chicks and their games and to focus on extending my personal freedoms.

Post: #264

Some of you naysayers always like to take things to the extreme to prove a debate. Having a good body helps to nudge and close the deal. It gives you a feeling of confidence..real confidence not that fake big mouth confidence. You know you are powerful because you are. As one poster here mentioned, the lizards can also sense that.

If you are a introverted goof, then obviously it's not going to help you. Nothing will help you if you are an introverted goof so let's throw that out of the equation. Money helps, if you are not worried about buying drinks and have a centrally located pad that is decked out, you can close lizards. Does that mean that money is all you need? No, of course not.

Having a strong athletic physique signals to the lizard that you can fcuk her well. You eliminate that provider vibe from her mind and she is just thinking about sex..not long term relationships but sex. When I see a big booty lizard with bulging breasts, my piece gets hard and I am not thinking about bringing her home for my village to approve, I am trying to sneak her into a dark corner so I can go balls deep. It is EXACTLY the same for lizards, I have heard their mumblings and I have seen many a lizard make 'mistakes' with swollen men.

Some of you jacked guys are unaware of the nuances that your physique has on a situation and think that having a good frame doesn't help. Remember there is no magic bullet here, it helping doesn't mean guarantee.

Let me give you some personal examples. When I was on my sports and gym hard, I remember pulling a lizard and getting her back to my place. Back to my place is no guarantee, I did this in Toronto and I blew a lot of punani opportunities even though the lizard came back to mine. Maybe it was bad game, I don't know but it is what it is.

Anyway, this lizard was at my place. At this time, I was only renting a room and I hadn't gotten my career in order. The lizard sat in my room and we watched an old episode of Cosby show or Fresh Prince (I can hardly remember). Anyway, I told her that I work out to let off steam. This was my ploy.
She said "Oh, really, let me see what you've got" and I took my jumper (sweater) off to show her my arms as I was wearing a basketball jersey beneath. I told her that I also have well developed legs, defying the chicken leg syndrome that afflicts some men.
She said "Go on then since you are so far in"
I flexed my back, showed her my sweeping quads and bulging calves.

She said "Oh nice" but her vocal tone was somewhat of a stammer.
Eventually, she asked me what I would like to do.

Cut a long story short, I kissed her and eventually was hitting that violently from the back while she shrieked the house down.

Another physique tale. I met Jenny Scordamaglia (see below) when I went to an event with an RVF forum member.




I was working out regularly at that time and I wore the clothes to compliment whenever going out. I stood out naturally with my physical presence at this event and I approached a Russian lizard from New York, wanting to see what it's like since you guys say Russians are so tough. Since the Russian was being a bit distant, I walked around to scan other lizards and Jenny came up to me in her usual fashion with her tits out and asked me where I was from. I smiled at her assuredly and said 'England'. She asked me what I think of Miami. My point is, when you workout and your physique starts to get to that point, you can almost see the lizards gravitate towards you. It's hard to explain to those who have not been there or who don't have that awareness.

Remember, you also have to wear clothes that compliment your physique. Unless you are at a pool party, there is no point wearing baggy or dumpy clothes and saying being swole makes no difference.

To reiterate, I am not saying that having a swole body is a golden bullet. A goof is still a goof even if you put a million dollars in his pocket and a 28 year old Arnold Schwarzenegger physique on his sketelal frame. But it helps.

I can elaborate on this animal magnetism more with the upcoming podcast. I am very attentive to such details. Lizards want to fcuk as much as men. When they are in carnal mode, they will ride a strong cock attached to a strong man.

Post: #265

(01-20-2017 12:13 AM)Moma Wrote:  Cut a long story short, I kissed her and eventually was hitting that violently from the back while she shrieked the house down.

Post: #266

(01-20-2017 12:13 AM)Moma Wrote:  Lizards want to fcuk as much as men. When they are in carnal mode, they will ride a strong cock attached to a strong man.

No they don't. If they did, everyone of us with a bulky physique or 6 pack abs or whatever the ideal physique is would be here reporting gay bathhouse quantity approaches from women day in, day out.

That's not happening.

Why?

Because women don't want to fuck as much as men do.

Be buff, it's cool, it helps, but they don't want to fuck as much as we do, that's why a lot of guys had to get jacked in the first place, because women don't want to fuck as much as we do, so guys try different angles to convince them to fuck, including weight lifting to get fit and over-eating to gain size.

It's a cool hobby, and the results can be impressive, no doubt, doing it for the increased confidence alone could be enough reason to do it for guys that need or want the confidence boost, but I know at least two GQ-looking, jacked guys that get virtually zero play, basically male models, close to zero play, and they're both straight.

If you want to get laid, weight lifting is low on the totem pole, game, wealth (applied correctly), or travel is far more effective. It does help, though, I'm not denying that, there's just better uses of time for getting laid purposes. For getting fit and jacked, by all means, lift weights.

But yeah, I agree with you, it helps, but if someone's very shy or otherwise socially awkward, getting buff isn't a cure-all.

Post: #267

(01-20-2017 02:17 AM)Spaniard88 Wrote:  

(01-20-2017 12:13 AM)Moma Wrote:  Lizards want to fcuk as much as men. When they are in carnal mode, they will ride a strong cock attached to a strong man.

No they don't. If they did, everyone of us with a bulky physique or 6 pack abs or whatever the ideal physique is would be here reporting gay bathhouse quantity approaches from women day in, day out.

That's not happening.

Why?

Because women don't want to fuck as much as men do.

[...]

Is Social conditionning & Slut Etiquette have nothing to do about it ?

Post: #268

(01-20-2017 02:17 AM)Spaniard88 Wrote:  No they don't. If they did, everyone of us with a bulky physique or 6 pack abs or whatever the ideal physique is would be here reporting gay bathhouse quantity approaches from women day in, day out.

That's not happening.

Why?

Because women don't want to fuck as much as men do.

Be buff, it's cool, it helps, but they don't want to fuck as much as we do, that's why a lot of guys had to get jacked in the first place, because women don't want to fuck as much as we do, so guys try different angles to convince them to fuck, including weight lifting to get fit and over-eating to gain size.

It's a cool hobby, and the results can be impressive, no doubt, doing it for the increased confidence alone could be enough reason to do it for guys that need or want the confidence boost, but I know at least two GQ-looking, jacked guys that get virtually zero play, basically male models, close to zero play, and they're both straight.

If you want to get laid, weight lifting is low on the totem pole, game, wealth (applied correctly), or travel is far more effective. It does help, though, I'm not denying that, there's just better uses of time for getting laid purposes. For getting fit and jacked, by all means, lift weights.

But yeah, I agree with you, it helps, but if someone's very shy or otherwise socially awkward, getting buff isn't a cure-all.

For the bolded, read my disclaimer for goofs. Nothing will help you then. As I said, I have lived it and I know. I sexed one fitness instructor from my gym. I took her class to limber up and she came up eventually and admitted that she was very aroused by the definition of my body. I rammed her good and proper in her apartment a few weeks later, nearly putting her head through the wall.

Post: #269

(01-20-2017 02:17 AM)Spaniard88 Wrote:  No they don't. If they did, everyone of us with a bulky physique or 6 pack abs or whatever the ideal physique is would be here reporting gay bathhouse quantity approaches from women day in, day out.

That's not happening.

Why?

Because women don't want to fuck as much as men do.

Be buff, it's cool, it helps, but they don't want to fuck as much as we do, that's why a lot of guys had to get jacked in the first place, because women don't want to fuck as much as we do, so guys try different angles to convince them to fuck, including weight lifting to get fit and over-eating to gain size.

It's a cool hobby, and the results can be impressive, no doubt, doing it for the increased confidence alone could be enough reason to do it for guys that need or want the confidence boost, but I know at least two GQ-looking, jacked guys that get virtually zero play, basically male models, close to zero play, and they're both straight.

If you want to get laid, weight lifting is low on the totem pole, game, wealth (applied correctly), or travel is far more effective. It does help, though, I'm not denying that, there's just better uses of time for getting laid purposes. For getting fit and jacked, by all means, lift weights.

But yeah, I agree with you, it helps, but if someone's very shy or otherwise socially awkward, getting buff isn't a cure-all.

Plenty of women absolutely want to fuck as much men. I've been in relationships with women who wanted to fuck more than me, who were insatiable. They're just as biologically driven as we are.

The difference is their social conditioning to "not be a slut" is what keeps them from as blatantly/frequently approaching. But they still do every so often when they feel an overpowering need to. Or when its a more socially acceptable situation.

If someone has an "ideal physique" and puts themselves in the right environment, where female slutting-it-up is more acceptable, they will 100% be approached repeatedly by women. Tell your two fitness model looking friends to go to a boozy pool party in Vegas, Thailand or Cancun and if they're really that jacked they'll be getting hit on constantly.

Post: #270

Well, I've not reached yet an amazing physique, I would say that we have very little guys that look like a bodybuilder walking around.

But I know how it is to be a 55 kg, 6 ft teen. And have 75 kg 8-10% bf. Being lean your face looks more masculine because of defined jawline, and even though i don't get approached because of the size of my biceps, i do enjoy listening chicks telling me how i'm gostoso, while i do my thing on them.

That would never happen if i never got into a gym. And my game is pretty weak to be honest.

But as i'll be getting on a bodybuilding competition later this year, I'll report back the differences of having 22 pounds of more muscle mass, if any, that i notice.

Post: #271

I manage a 20 year old fitness model, he gets P thrown on him on a plate.

When you get in shape, no I am not talking bodybuilder shape. I mean a decent body that looks good at a pool or with your shirt off. Then you can comment, but please stop talking about these friends you know that are jacked and get no love.

Again, I am not saying girls will rush you and demand anal. I am saying girls will be more physical, initiate conversations and talk more sexually to you.

Not sure why this thread keeps going around in a circle.

Get in shape and it is another weapon in your toolbox.

Post: #272

(01-20-2017 09:46 AM)rudebwoy Wrote:  I manage a 20 year old fitness model, he gets P thrown on him on a plate.

Lol, what about you? Do you get pussy thrown at you on a plate?

Post: #273

(01-18-2017 09:19 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

(01-16-2017 07:59 AM)xmlenigma Wrote:  

(01-13-2017 09:34 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

(01-13-2017 03:53 AM)Naughty By Nature Wrote:  ...
There's also the fact that when you approach a girl, you have this thing over your body called a shirt. She can't see what your physique is like.
...

Traps, Pecs, Lats, Glutes, Quads, Calves and a well recessed spine are all apparent if you're wearing neatly fitting clothes short of a winter outfit in Alaska.

Yeah but even if you wear a Blazer/ Jacket.. and not a full suit (tailored suit game) there goes the visibility.. maybe only face..

In other words you have to dress fairly specifically to hide muscle. I had a job for a few years where I had to routinely threat-assess guys coming and going, and it's harder to hide muscle than you think. It doesn't pop out at you because you're a hetero guy with no reason to look closer, but women are highly biologically programmed to analyse stuff like this. If you know one then take a walk with her and ask her to pick out the guys that lift, even if they're wearing heavy clothes. You might be surprised about how certain she is.

In any case, if you're plying the market for notches then I can't imagine why you'd go out of your way to dress your physique down. Up maybe, but not down.

Of course. A nice fitting V neck T-shirt or custom shirt is good. But, if you're Lean (hard gainer) and then add a nice linen jacket.. Unless you are jacked/ swole, it wont show unless I got back to a fitted T. Issue being, in wanting to dress nicer and having a custom made jacket.. Im not sure how much of it shows except for one's jawline..

As I said I am wondering/ curious for Lean guys who are not Jacked/ Swole.

(01-18-2017 09:44 AM)blck Wrote:  

(01-16-2017 07:59 AM)xmlenigma Wrote:  [...]
Yeah but even if you wear a Blazer/Jacket.. and not a full suit (tailored suit game) there goes the visibility.. maybe only face..

I am asking/ curious.. not debunking.. How would a non JACKED/ Swole who's NOT BIG.. but Lean guy convey fitness under a custom stitched suit jacket?

Post: #274

^ Not sure if I'm big enough to answer as I'm pretty light, but I have about a 43 inch chest, 29.5 waist, and about 15 3/8 inch arms cold but flexed. Bodyfat is somewhere around 8 - 9 percent (lean enough to show full six pack with deep valley between abs that I can literally put my fingers into, but still a bit of bodyfat covering the eight), and I'd say I look pretty decent for a smaller guy as I have pretty decent lines.

In a jacket people assume I'm skinny and I doubt anyone would even think I work out, especially considering I wear slim narrow tailoring. Also being lean makes my legs and hips look tiny (my legs don't grow well anyway, but are still pretty well shaped albeit small). Generally I'm too cold to wear just a t-shirt out unless I'm in a hot country (having low body-fat means I'm usually cold even in summer), but when I manage to wear something like a slim fitting knit, I get much more female attention (girls look me up and down, feel me up, touch me longer than they should etc. It's kind of addictive (definitely feel myself wanting to wear certain items more than others when going out), and easy to see why people who are bigger would do well from it. However, I'd personally rather not want to rely on it, and prefer to be proactive and approach the girls that I want most, rather than wait for girls to come onto me or show interest. It's also a very long journey in general between having some attraction, and managing to get a girl home.

Post: #275

Just a quick observation: As long as you're less than fat (skinny or ripped, it doesn't matter) get FITTED SHIRTS! A fitted button-down shirt looks great even on skinny guys who are trying to bulk up. Nothing looks sloppier than looking like you're wearing a bed sheet's worth of fabric. For the slender or narrow build guy, I recommend Express for Men, H&M, Van Hussen, Hugo Boss. They all have slim fits that look great if you aren't bulky. Get a fitted shirt, and better body posture and the shirt will fill out. Add the muscle as you go, but there's no excuse not to look better starting right now.