Post: #276

biggest BS ever THERE is ZERO power...
women couldn't care less
I never felt any difference between this:


and this:


in both cases girl's couldn't care less be it in summer beach in t shirt on street on gym whatever.

Post: #277

(01-21-2017 03:15 PM)rikardo_82 Wrote:  biggest BS ever THERE is ZERO power...
women couldn't care less
I never felt any difference between this:


and this:


in both cases girl's couldn't care less be it in summer beach in t shirt on street on gym whatever.

There's diminishing returns on a physique. Height and face are WAY MORE FUCKING IMPORTANT. Physique isn't that important unless you're overweight or scrawny. If you're in shape it doesn't matter if you're jacked or just lean with a bit of muscle.

I feel like a lot of the guys claiming physique gets girls to jump in bed with them have never been buff or jacked. Guys who have been there understand the diminishing returns. The best thing about a physique is SELF confidence. Having huge muscles only impresses other men, and the small niche of women that are into meatheads/fitness freaks.

Other than that a jacked physique is overrated. I'd trade every ounce of muscle on my body for 3 more inches in height and start over again.

Post: #278

you will never be taller so stop wishing on stuff that won't happen. Guys talking about physique and diminishing returns but have not even got to that mark. Also many guys have only gamed in one country and often one state. Again, many have avoided the summary that it helps. There is no silver bullet in consensual varied sex either. So we can debate these points about every facet of game.

Post: #279

(01-21-2017 06:27 PM)Moma Wrote:  Guys talking about physique and diminishing returns but have not even got to that mark.

Except you're also addressing posters who have got to that mark. I've put 15-20 lbs of muscle on my frame in the last 5 years while maintaining sub 14% bodyfat. As a natural lifter most men will only add 30 lbs of muscle maximum in a LIFETIME. With my size and training experience, I will add 5-10 lbs more muscle on my frame MAXIMUM in the next 2-3 years.

I'm not saying it doesn't help, I'm saying the significance is overstated.

Also I've laid out in more detail how and why I say that previously so I'll stop beating a dead horse. My previous posts go into more nuance about my stance so I'm done with this thread.

Post: #280

You are entirely ignoring the argument that people are putting forward. All people are saying a great physique can have an animalistic and raw attraction on a woman. Not that it's the only and end all of attraction.

Basically if attraction=Game+Money+Status+Access+Physique

Why wouldn't you try to maximize all those areas. Certain areas may be stronger than others but they all work together.

If you have a great powerful physique it can put women in a mind frame that you are more confident and dominant without doing anything but being there. She already puts you in a certain category in her mind. All you have to do is fit the part.

How many women like to let their emotions go and be in the presence of strong, dominant physical men?

Well when you find one that doesn't let me know.

Post: #281

I have been skinny and now i have put on about 30lbs of muscle, going from 145 to 175lbs at 11% body fat. Improving my physique has helped my confidence. When I hit the club most girls grope me or try and feel me up.

It has helped me tremendously in closing, gives me the confidence to approach. Yeah there can be diminishing returns as I have friends who are also quite big but have no game, so they settle for mediocre to average girls.

I'm not tall, standing at 5'8.

Saying physique isn't important is crazy. If you are under 6'0 get into the gym and lift.

Post: #282

(01-21-2017 06:50 PM)ballsyamog Wrote:  I have been skinny and now i have put on about 30lbs of muscle, going from 145 to 175lbs at 11% body fat. Improving my physique has helped my confidence. When I hit the club most girls grope me or try and feel me up.

I'd love to game with you. A man who goes out and has random women groping him and feeling him up at the venue? What city are you in and when can I go out with you to witness this?

Even at my biggest/leanest when I would get constant compliments on my physique, have other guys challenge me to arm wrestling, when my mom and my sister's friends would flirt with me and touch me, when people asked me if I was a college football player when I went out, yeah I'd have girls feel my swag when I approached or talked to them and the random odd girl who went out of her way to talk to me, but it was never raining pussy. I still had to approach and game. I wasn't constantly getting opened by hotties.

Also if you gained 30 lbs you didn't gain 30 lbs of muscle. Not every single lb you put on is pure muscle. I went from 150 to 183 and I'm 14% bodyfat right now. Not every single lb I've put on is pure muscle. If I diet down to 175 I'll be close to 10% bodyfat and still wouldn't claim 25 lbs of pure muscle gained.

Quote:It has helped me tremendously in closing, gives me the confidence to approach. Yeah there can be diminishing returns as I have friends who are also quite big but have no game, so they settle for mediocre to average girls.

I'm not tall, standing at 5'8.

Saying physique isn't important is crazy. If you are under 6'0 get into the gym and lift.

No argument there. Not sure who y'all seem to be addressing. Like I said I already explained more in detail earlier in this thread exactly the stipulations behind my stance in a pretty systemic way about what you can and get from working out and the impact it has. As someone who has lived it and has been buff since before even finding the manosphere, I find it quite amusing when people talk about stuff like physique/bodybuilding and its effect on game to me as if they're an authority on it or that I'm clueless about it.

From the time I've spent in the fitness section of the roosh forum most guys on here aren't jacked and don't even know the fundamental principles of bodybuilding, nutrition, and strength training. There is a small percentage of guys here who do know what they're talking about and have well developed physiques but it's not the norm from what I've read.

Good day to you sirs.

I encourage all men to bodybuild and put on muscle but the overexaggerations.... Though I'll admit I have gotten better service, more looks, and of course huge confidence from my physique, like others have pointed out it's not a silver bullet. I think we all agree with that. Perhaps there's no argument and we're arguing over bullshit. I don't think a single person in this thread said not to work out or that it doesn't help so not getting some of the comments.

Post: #283

There's some serious hamstering going on here. Nobody denies that height, game, and looks don't matter. The fact is that a nice body can only help and never hurts. Just because you know a scrawny or fat guy who can pick up hot girls doesn't mean that most hot girls prefer scrawny or fat guys. I have a good looking friend who is a chubby chaser. Does that mean most guys like fat girls or that girls who stay fit aren't more attractive to guys than fat slobs?

Post: #284

(01-21-2017 06:50 PM)ballsyamog Wrote:  I have been skinny and now i have put on about 30lbs of muscle, going from 145 to 175lbs at 11% body fat. Improving my physique has helped my confidence. When I hit the club most girls grope me or try and feel me up.

It has helped me tremendously in closing, gives me the confidence to approach. Yeah there can be diminishing returns as I have friends who are also quite big but have no game, so they settle for mediocre to average girls.

I'm not tall, standing at 5'8.

Saying physique isn't important is crazy. If you are under 6'0 get into the gym and lift.

Man, what an excellent point!

I've got to agree with this, I didn't think of it earlier, but I'm like 6'0 or 6'1" with a naturally athletic build. In high school I beat our chess team captain in chess and he was ranked in the single digits in Texas, so I wasn't a jock at all, I had no athletic background. Despite that, I still ended up graduating first in my military class, I'm just naturally athletic.

If I was a good amount shorter than 6 feet in height I would 100% be hitting the gym every day or as often as needed to be buff. I'd be taking protein shakes, which I hate (I'm a sit down and eat some filet mignon kind of guy) and would even consider steroids. That said, it would only get you so far, but it's far enough to be worth the effort, coming from there.

So yeah, I just wanted to add that my low ranking of having an amazing physique versus the other facets (game, wealth, travel, etc.) comes from someone who is already easily in the top 10% in looks/physique, without working out.

If you aren't tall, or if you have some other issue outside of your control, like a lisp, baldness, whatever, WORK OUT, it can absolutely make a difference, a big difference if you're below a certain level of attractiveness and can get above it.

On the other hand, if you're already tall, good looking, and your other areas are on point, the amount of time or effort required to invest in getting an amazing physique has a different cost/benefit ratio.

I'm glad Moma, Ballsyamog, and Unchained's posts helped me realize the error in my judgment, due to where I was coming from.

If you have something beyond your control that affects your attractiveness, like height/lisp/baldness, get buff, because it will give you a +1 or +2, and that's a BIG change. If you're tall, good looking, and already naturally built, it may only give you a +.5, if that.

Post: #285

"Every man is a better man when he’s stronger rather than weaker.
A strengthened body strengthens the mind.
Looking and feeling stronger imbues a man with that aura of confidence so alluring to women." -Chateau Heartiste

Post: #286

(01-21-2017 05:49 AM)John Michael Kane Wrote:  Just a quick observation: As long as you're less than fat (skinny or ripped, it doesn't matter) get FITTED SHIRTS! A fitted button-down shirt looks great even on skinny guys who are trying to bulk up. Nothing looks sloppier than looking like you're wearing a bed sheet's worth of fabric. For the slender or narrow build guy, I recommend Express for Men, H&M, Van Hussen, Hugo Boss. They all have slim fits that look great if you aren't bulky. Get a fitted shirt, and better body posture and the shirt will fill out. Add the muscle as you go, but there's no excuse not to look better starting right now.

Agree lose the weight first.

This thread is tough to argue against if you are overweight.

Fact is most in the states are overweight. I'd say you need to be 15% or less first. Then put on the muscle or work on other areas.

Fat slobs aren't going to get far by just working on getting better with women.

Get your weight under control first. More benefits than even the women.

It makes everything a lot easier. It has for me.

Post: #287

(01-22-2017 01:20 AM)Spaniard88 Wrote:  If you aren't tall, or if you have some other issue outside of your control, like a lisp, baldness, whatever, WORK OUT, it can absolutely make a difference, a big difference if you're below a certain level of attractiveness and can get above it.

On the other hand, if you're already tall, good looking, and your other areas are on point, the amount of time or effort required to invest in getting an amazing physique has a different cost/benefit ratio.

I'm glad Moma, Ballsyamog, and Unchained's posts helped me realize the error in my judgment, due to where I was coming from.

If you have something beyond your control that affects your attractiveness, like height/lisp/baldness, get buff, because it will give you a +1 or +2, and that's a BIG change. If you're tall, good looking, and already naturally built, it may only give you a +.5, if that.

OMG the sky is falling.

This is so on point, like I stated before you cannot control your face.

You can control your body.

Post: #288

I need to trim down a few inches on the waist (similar chest) and gain some on the arms.. Thanks for posting I just moved some of these thoughts to the mature man thread.. As I've gotten into going with linen suits..

/thread-30-po...pid1492571

So, the question is.. where is the optimal range.. the sweet spot.. Given your numbers you might be approaching the Adonis Index ratios (Google it.. I think thats kind of where I wish to go / maintain)..

(01-21-2017 05:45 AM)Kieran Wrote:  ^ Not sure if I'm big enough to answer as I'm pretty light, but I have about a 43 inch chest, 29.5 waist, and about 15 3/8 inch arms cold but flexed. Bodyfat is somewhere around 8 - 9 percent (lean enough to show full six pack with deep valley between abs that I can literally put my fingers into, but still a bit of bodyfat covering the eight), and I'd say I look pretty decent for a smaller guy as I have pretty decent lines.

In a jacket people assume I'm skinny and I doubt anyone would even think I work out, especially considering I wear slim narrow tailoring. Also being lean makes my legs and hips look tiny (my legs don't grow well anyway, but are still pretty well shaped albeit small). Generally I'm too cold to wear just a t-shirt out unless I'm in a hot country (having low body-fat means I'm usually cold even in summer), but when I manage to wear something like a slim fitting knit, I get much more female attention (girls look me up and down, feel me up, touch me longer than they should etc. It's kind of addictive (definitely feel myself wanting to wear certain items more than others when going out), and easy to see why people who are bigger would do well from it. However, I'd personally rather not want to rely on it, and prefer to be proactive and approach the girls that I want most, rather than wait for girls to come onto me or show interest. It's also a very long journey in general between having some attraction, and managing to get a girl home.

Yeah, I just got rid of lot of ill fitting clothes and am cutting down wardrobe to well fitted staples.. that can be combined easily.

(01-21-2017 05:49 AM)John Michael Kane Wrote:  Just a quick observation: As long as you're less than fat (skinny or ripped, it doesn't matter) get FITTED SHIRTS! A fitted button-down shirt looks great even on skinny guys who are trying to bulk up. Nothing looks sloppier than looking like you're wearing a bed sheet's worth of fabric. For the slender or narrow build guy, I recommend Express for Men, H&M, Van Hussen, Hugo Boss. They all have slim fits that look great if you aren't bulky. Get a fitted shirt, and better body posture and the shirt will fill out. Add the muscle as you go, but there's no excuse not to look better starting right now.

I've got some custom stitched and am leaning towards some such brands.

Post: #289

The problem with physique is that you have guys who are 4/10 thinking it will make them a 9/10 when really it will just take them to 4.5/10

Weight lifting and the culture around it is a coping mechanism for guys who are one or more of ugly, old, ethnic, bald, short, small dick, low class, abused, bullied, or unathletic to scream and grunt away their problems

Because it has zero barrier to entry, because it is "something you can change", and because it's something that everybody gets good at, such men quickly create a fantasy in their head where they elevate lifting to be their everything and the solution to their problems and what will make them a "real man"

Truth is it fails as a compensatory mechanism, it changes almost nothing, nobody gives a shit that you can move a bar a couple inches in a fixed path by yourself in an air conditioned studio, and for the 1000% focus it's given it at BEST gives a 5% life improvement

Post: #290

Maxzilla, no one in their right mind is thinking that. That's like some guys thinking that if they recite incantations around silk knickers, lizards will fall from the skies naked, filled with lust. You are just reciting the same myths. Weight lifting does change things in many different ways.

Additionally, no guy on this forum, unless he's viciously scarred..is 4 out of 10.

Post: #291

(02-25-2017 09:47 PM)Moma Wrote:  Maxzilla, no one in their right mind is thinking that. That's like some guys thinking that if they recite incantations around silk knickers, lizards will fall from the skies naked, filled with lust. You are just reciting the same myths. Weight lifting does change things in many different ways.

Additionally, no guy on this forum, unless he's viciously scarred..is 4 out of 10.

Well, I think you are wrong

Post: #292

(02-25-2017 10:03 PM)Maxzilla Wrote:  

(02-25-2017 09:47 PM)Moma Wrote:  Maxzilla, no one in their right mind is thinking that. That's like some guys thinking that if they recite incantations around silk knickers, lizards will fall from the skies naked, filled with lust. You are just reciting the same myths. Weight lifting does change things in many different ways.

Additionally, no guy on this forum, unless he's viciously scarred..is 4 out of 10.

Well, I think you are wrong

....lol here we go

Post: #293

(02-25-2017 10:03 PM)Maxzilla Wrote:  

(02-25-2017 09:47 PM)Moma Wrote:  Maxzilla, no one in their right mind is thinking that. That's like some guys thinking that if they recite incantations around silk knickers, lizards will fall from the skies naked, filled with lust. You are just reciting the same myths. Weight lifting does change things in many different ways.

Additionally, no guy on this forum, unless he's viciously scarred..is 4 out of 10.

Well, I think you are wrong

Wrong about the whole thing or just a portion? If a portion, which portion?

Post: #294

(02-25-2017 06:50 PM)Maxzilla Wrote:  The problem with physique is that you have guys who are 4/10 thinking it will make them a 9/10 when really it will just take them to 4.5/10

Weight lifting and the culture around it is a coping mechanism for guys who are one or more of ugly, old, ethnic, bald, short, small dick, low class, abused, bullied, or unathletic to scream and grunt away their problems

Because it has zero barrier to entry, because it is "something you can change", and because it's something that everybody gets good at, such men quickly create a fantasy in their head where they elevate lifting to be their everything and the solution to their problems and what will make them a "real man"

Truth is it fails as a compensatory mechanism, it changes almost nothing, nobody gives a shit that you can move a bar a couple inches in a fixed path by yourself in an air conditioned studio, and for the 1000% focus it's given it at BEST gives a 5% life improvement

That was way out there.

Post: #295

"Overcome by the giddiness that flying lent him, Icarus soared into the sky, but in the process he came too close to the sun, which due to the heat melted the wax. Icarus kept flapping his wings but soon realized that he had no feathers left and that he was only flapping his bare arms, and so Icarus fell into the sea"

RIP Maxzilla..

Post: #296

Arguing that physique doesn't help is just anti-game in disguise.

"Boo-Hoo i wish i was 6'3 and looked like Jason Statham."

Sure being 6'3 and looking like a celeb works but you can't fucking teach it so don't worry about it. Why are dudes worrying about shit that they can't control?

You CAN decide to look good and be fit and you should decide to do that or you're leaving pussy on the table. At least 20% of girls I go on dates with will eventually ask me about my body while I"m just sitting in a simple T-shirt. Sure, i'm in southern china and guys don't have much muscle but that just makes it that much more effective.

Game is about controlling the variables you can control: confidence, fitness, verbal skills and learning female psychology. If you don't think girls care about muscles then you clearly have never been groped by a chick because you are fat or skinny.

End of discussion.

THERE IS NO ONE THING THAT WILL MAKE A GIRL JUMP INTO BED WITH YOU INSTANTLY. Nothing. Nada. Zilch.

No magic bullets so stop trying to write off elements of attraction this way. That makes no sense. That's like saying, "game doesn't make girls instantly jump into bed with me, so it's clearly got diminishing returns and isn't worth it."

Post: #297

^ Tell that to the dubai portapotties

Post: #298

^ Oil money wins.....FATALITY.

Post: #299

As a competitive bodybuilder, I'll chime in.

When you become very different (I.e big as fuck) you become a niche product. Not everyone likes it, but for some women it's their thing, just like black, or tall, hipster, ect. They all have their preferences.

Being that I stick out like a sore thumb at a bar, I usually just sit down and get a fucking sandwich. Usually some little trollop will walk up and ask me about my arms or chest or if I go to her gym or something, and then it's just fuck up avoidance game.

However I wouldn't become a bodybuilder to pick up women. A better return of your time would be getting rich or developing social skills (which is the problem for 99% of guys on here). You only need to be fairly fit to do really well with women, and it would be easier to start a business making 400k a year than to become a really big bodybuilder.

A lot of guys get into physique development just to get women. The truth is that it's about as useful as a really nice car. You'll pull way more pussy by being funny, charming, having an attractive face, dressing relatively well, being interesting, confident, ect. That's like 85 percent of this game thing, and it's where most guys really slack. Why? Because having a better personality is really really hard.

Post: #300

(02-25-2017 06:50 PM)Maxzilla Wrote:  The problem with physique is that you have guys who are 4/10 thinking it will make them a 9/10 when really it will just take them to 4.5/10

You may be exaggerating but there is one guy in particular that illustrates this to a T.


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