Post: #226

(01-13-2017 03:53 AM)Naughty By Nature Wrote:  Be very careful with taking advice from dudes who post here. There are a lot of guys on here who are very obvious KJs, dudes with little experience with women who paint themselves out to be experts. I've done over 1,000 approaches. I've put in the work and continue to.

True. One of the smoothest players I knew was this really skinny dude living in a shitty apartment (with a roommate, no less) in Brooklyn. He could barely lift 25 lbs I wanna say? He was picky as fuck when it came to women, but he consistently hooked up with 9s and 10s.

A good physique definitely helps, but as long as you're not noticeably fat/lanky/ugly-faced/short etc your physical traits probably matter less and your game makes more of a difference. The way you carry yourself, your sense of style, approach, confidence etc. can all make a massive difference in your results.

Post: #227

(01-13-2017 09:34 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

(01-13-2017 03:53 AM)Naughty By Nature Wrote:  ...
There's also the fact that when you approach a girl, you have this thing over your body called a shirt. She can't see what your physique is like.
...

Traps, Pecs, Lats, Glutes, Quads, Calves and a well recessed spine are all apparent if you're wearing neatly fitting clothes short of a winter outfit in Alaska.

Yeah but even if you wear a Blazer/ Jacket.. and not a full suit (tailored suit game) there goes the visibility.. maybe only face..

Post: #228

(01-13-2017 03:53 AM)Naughty By Nature Wrote:  Be very careful with taking advice from dudes who post here. There are a lot of guys on here who are very obvious KJs, dudes with little experience with women who paint themselves out to be experts. I've done over 1,000 approaches. I've put in the work and continue to.

What's a KJ?

Post: #229

(01-17-2017 11:45 PM)nek Wrote:  What's a KJ?

keyboard jockey.

Post: #230

Bottom line is: skinnt and fat guys always want to get more muscular, but I've never seen muscular guys wanting to get fatter or skinnier (I say that as an ectomorph myself). You walways will eb a better you when muscular, and your girl won't complain, that's for sure.

Post: #231

(01-16-2017 07:59 AM)xmlenigma Wrote:  

(01-13-2017 09:34 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

(01-13-2017 03:53 AM)Naughty By Nature Wrote:  ...
There's also the fact that when you approach a girl, you have this thing over your body called a shirt. She can't see what your physique is like.
...

Traps, Pecs, Lats, Glutes, Quads, Calves and a well recessed spine are all apparent if you're wearing neatly fitting clothes short of a winter outfit in Alaska.

Yeah but even if you wear a Blazer/ Jacket.. and not a full suit (tailored suit game) there goes the visibility.. maybe only face..

In other words you have to dress fairly specifically to hide muscle. I had a job for a few years where I had to routinely threat-assess guys coming and going, and it's harder to hide muscle than you think. It doesn't pop out at you because you're a hetero guy with no reason to look closer, but women are highly biologically programmed to analyse stuff like this. If you know one then take a walk with her and ask her to pick out the guys that lift, even if they're wearing heavy clothes. You might be surprised about how certain she is.

In any case, if you're plying the market for notches then I can't imagine why you'd go out of your way to dress your physique down. Up maybe, but not down.

Post: #232

(01-16-2017 07:59 AM)xmlenigma Wrote:  [...]
Yeah but even if you wear a Blazer/Jacket.. and not a full suit (tailored suit game) there goes the visibility.. maybe only face..

Post: #233

Having a good physique definitely helps. I guess you can make up for it in other areas, but why not stack the cards more in your favor? When I start talking to girls online and we start exchanging pics, I always make it a point to send her one of my six pack (ok, more like a four pack) and their response is always the same "ohh nice" or "mmmmhmmm". Having toned abs and arms is great, but I'm also of the opinion that women like those other areas not talked about as much as those two like the forearms and neck/trap area. Oh and a good Adonis belt never hurts either.

Like someone else mentioned earlier, at the end of the day it's healthy. So ultimately you're bettering yourself. Having girls swoon over your body is just a fringe benefit.

Post: #234

Question for you guys that don't think a nice body matters.

Do you date girls who don't have a nice body?

A girl with a nice body stirs something inside of me, I feel tingles in my balls.

Post: #235

(01-13-2017 03:53 AM)Naughty By Nature Wrote:  I've never seen a roided up freak with a truly attractive girl in my life.

Using steroids communicates a lack of self-esteem which women can smell a mile away. It repulses them.

That feeling when you realize a new member is posing as 100x more knowledgeable of women than he is in real life. Man I feel embarrassed just reading that.

/thread-46477.html

Post: #236

(01-13-2017 03:53 AM)Naughty By Nature Wrote:  I've never seen a roided up freak with a truly attractive girl in my life.

Using steroids communicates a lack of self-esteem which women can smell a mile away. It repulses them.

Also, notice that the only people who are impressed by massively jacked physiques are OTHER guys, lol. So have fun using steroids to impress gay men.

There's also the fact that when you approach a girl, you have this thing over your body called a shirt. She can't see what your physique is like.

BTW, don't confuse this post for me being anti-lifting. I lift 3-4 days a week and I recommend having as good a physique as you can naturally attain. Just don't be naive like the 15 year-old virgin down the block who erroneously believes becoming yolked will get him booty. It doesn't work that way. Women care very little about your physique, not to mention they won't have any idea what your body looks like until she's in bed with you...and at that time, you've already sealed the deal, regardless of your physique.

Be very careful with taking advice from dudes who post here. There are a lot of guys on here who are very obvious KJs, dudes with little experience with women who paint themselves out to be experts. I've done over 1,000 approaches. I've put in the work and continue to.

Wow, impressive.

We should ALL take note of what you speak.

Post: #237

(01-18-2017 01:47 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

(01-13-2017 03:53 AM)Naughty By Nature Wrote:  Be very careful with taking advice from dudes who post here. There are a lot of guys on here who are very obvious KJs, dudes with little experience with women who paint themselves out to be experts. I've done over 1,000 approaches. I've put in the work and continue to.

Wow, impressive.

We should ALL take note of what you speak.

Whenever I see guys like this post "I have 1000 approaches", I just wonder: yeah but have you had sex yet? Especially when they then say be careful of us when they have no posts and no rep.

That many approaches and no sex? Perhaps they're just not buying what you're selling, dude. You might want to offer more on sale . I'll take the steroid-ridden pussy-buried expertise on women from LINUX or GLL over some guy who can just about scrape together a tone of authority on his keyboard, any day.

Post: #238

Hahaha, sometimes, I read the material in here and I am wailing with laughter. No but on a serious note, to quote Rude, having a good body helps. You can't control your face but you can create a nice frame. I have seen and lived the difference in having a nice athletic body. In three different countries!

Post: #239

(01-18-2017 09:19 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  ...In other words you have to dress fairly specifically to hide muscle. I had a job for a few years where I had to routinely threat-assess guys coming and going, and it's harder to hide muscle than you think. It doesn't pop out at you because you're a hetero guy with no reason to look closer, but women are highly biologically programmed to analyse stuff like this.
...

This is everything right here. I've written before, the first person to notice I'd been lifting were a couple women (friends), even before me.

I still remember I was standing at the bar with them, and they both brought up how I looked good/better.

Actually at the time I shrugged it off as getting good sleep and not being hungover. It wasn't for a few weeks I realized it was because I'd been lifting for a month and a half.

Chicks notice. That's why I say to everyone, start lifting. It's not about being big or ripped or whatever. It's about being 10-20% more physically attractive than you are now.

Post: #240

(01-18-2017 03:58 PM)heavy Wrote:  

(01-18-2017 09:19 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  ...In other words you have to dress fairly specifically to hide muscle. I had a job for a few years where I had to routinely threat-assess guys coming and going, and it's harder to hide muscle than you think. It doesn't pop out at you because you're a hetero guy with no reason to look closer, but women are highly biologically programmed to analyse stuff like this.
...

This is everything right here. I've written before, the first person to notice I'd been lifting were a couple women (friends), even before me.

I still remember I was standing at the bar with them, and they both brought up how I looked good/better.

Actually at the time I shrugged it off as getting good sleep and not being hungover. It wasn't for a few weeks I realized it was because I'd been lifting for a month and a half.

Chicks notice. That's why I say to everyone, start lifting. It's not about being big or ripped or whatever. It's about being 10-20% more physically attractive than you are now.

Agreed. Back when I was in what I consider to be the best shape of my life, had built some good muscle mass over a few moths, etc., I had women that I knew making comments and more women hitting on me in general. It's not like the entire bar would turn at the sight of me, but I garnered much more female attention than I did prior to lifting.

Post: #241

(01-13-2017 03:53 AM)Naughty By Nature Wrote:  I've never seen a roided up freak with a truly attractive girl in my life.

BTW, don't confuse this post for me being anti-lifting. I lift 3-4 days a week and I recommend having as good a physique as you can naturally attain. Just don't be naive like the 15 year-old virgin down the block who erroneously believes becoming yolked will get him booty. It doesn't work that way. Women care very little about your physique, not to mention they won't have any idea what your body looks like until she's in bed with you...and at that time, you've already sealed the deal, regardless of your physique.

You seriously go to the gym 3-4 days a week? You must not live in a hot spot for bodybuilding/fitness. I see roided up guys with hot fitness girls at the gym all the time. It's rare to see a regular looking guy with a hot fitness girl.

Yeah sure, having a good body isn't going to get lots of random girls chasing you. But sure helps with girls who are a little interested.

If you train natural you don't even stand out much these days. Way more younger guys weight train seriously now than 10 years ago having a good body just gives you the opportunity to game now. It used to be more of a difference maker.

Post: #242

Face >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Body

Post: #243

(01-18-2017 04:18 PM)Razor Beast Wrote:  

(01-13-2017 03:53 AM)Naughty By Nature Wrote:  I've never seen a roided up freak with a truly attractive girl in my life.

BTW, don't confuse this post for me being anti-lifting. I lift 3-4 days a week and I recommend having as good a physique as you can naturally attain. Just don't be naive like the 15 year-old virgin down the block who erroneously believes becoming yolked will get him booty. It doesn't work that way. Women care very little about your physique, not to mention they won't have any idea what your body looks like until she's in bed with you...and at that time, you've already sealed the deal, regardless of your physique.

You seriously go to the gym 3-4 days a week? You must not live in a hot spot for bodybuilding/fitness. I see roided up guys with hot fitness girls at the gym all the time. It's rare to see a regular looking guy with a hot fitness girl.

Yeah sure, having a good body isn't going to get lots of random girls chasing you. But sure helps with girls who are a little interested.

If you train natural you don't even stand out much these days. Way more younger guys weight train seriously now than 10 years ago having a good body just gives you the opportunity to game now. It used to be more of a difference maker.

The way I see it now, from a standing out perspective (don't know that much about girls), is that you have tons of guys who lift and have some muscle jutting out from here and there and you have tons of fat guys who lift too or perhaps don't lift and in loose clothing it's unfortunately hard to tell the difference.
I almost feel like some of the info out there that's supposed to help guys is hurting their progress, which is good in the sense that there's less competition when you do it right, which means doing surgically specific bodybuilding exercises in addition to more vague compound lifts; that's how you get the three dimensional, detailed look that even most lifters will never reach because they have bought into talking points like "functional strength", "does that 300lb monster have a small bicep peak? He does not so why should you do curls?" or "squats cause your entire body to grow" or "your forearms grow from gripping barbells".

Post: #244

I have met quiet a few of guys from this forum, most guys I have met are decent looking.

So looks alone doesn't always cut it.

Many guys on this forum also have great jobs/careers and more than a few have decent incomes.

So money alone doesn't always cut it.

So what brings them to this forum? Many reasons I am sure, but most are looking to improve themselves with women and to travel.

Most of the guys are "reserved", quiet and dare I say some are shy.

There is nothing wrong with that, I mean how many guys do you know that are fearless approach machines? I only know a handful of guys that are like that, some are natural and some have learnt the skill over many years.

No one is saying a great body will be the simple answer, far from it. There is no secret formula.

It doesn't hurt to be in shape, now more than ever.

Again, I am talking in the West.

Look how many fat Americans there are, why not be in shape and have an advantage. There are plenty of fat Canadians as well, so don't feel I am biased.

It is funny, now all of a sudden there are so many gyms in my suburbia city. We even have Crossfit gyms and MMA gyms. So you would figure that more people would be in shape.

One disturbing trend is that I see girls getting more masculine and boys getting more feminine.

I wouldn't want some bitch thinking she can out deadlift me or that she was stronger than me, my little ego couldn't take that.

For me I find working out has done a lot for me. I have had people recently ask me if I was a cop, not sure if that is a compliment. A few years ago I was trolling these girls and telling them I was a male stripper. It gives you another dynamic and another arsenal to add to ALL the game skills you have learnt from here.

Post: #245

(01-18-2017 09:28 PM)Maxzilla Wrote:  Face >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Body

My long lost ally.

If Game, Body, Face were a pie chart of how effective they were in increasing the level of each at similar doses with how much high quality pussy shot out the other end of the pipeline.

Face 55%
Game 30%
Body 15% (barring being a severe fatass)

I have no idea what this means as far as what an equal dose is, those that get the meaning will get it.

Post: #246

I'd like to chime in on here considering my physic has changed a lot over the years.

I used to be huge, like 260 pounds at 17% body fat, from playing football. After my career ended I started focusing on calisthenics and cardio and went down to 220 pounds at like 12% where I am now.

That said, I have received substantial more IOI's and girls have been way more receptive to me at my current size then they were when I was a hulking beast that smashed in heads on the field.

I don't know whether it was because I scared them when I was bigger or they just loved the ripped look way more.

Post: #247

(01-19-2017 12:50 AM)Travesty Wrote:  

(01-18-2017 09:28 PM)Maxzilla Wrote:  Face >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Body

My long lost ally.

If Game, Body, Face were a pie chart of how effective they were in increasing the level of each at similar doses with how much high quality pussy shot out the other end of the pipeline.

Face 55%
Game 30%
Body 15% (barring being a severe fatass)

I have no idea what this means as far as what an equal dose is, those that get the meaning will get it.

Post: #248

After the "face over Game over body" argument I'm waiting for someone to pull the Steve Buscemi card to point back to this thread and it will be a full circle

Post: #249

Honestly, guys who think a physique is a total game changer were probably slightly above average to begin with or never have had an amazing physique. I'm buff. Objectively muscular and somewhat lean. I was buff before I even discovered the manosphere as working out has been important to me since the age of 19.

I'm almost 26 and I've been getting complements on my physique and being known as the "buff guy" since the age of 22.

Physique only does that much for you. Face and height are way more important. I see goofy looking tall guys with cute girlfriends consistently.

I'm a seasoned gym rat and natural bodybuilder and most of the roided up guys have average looking chicks. A small amount of them have dimes. The thing is, that even the guys who don't look like they've lifted a weight in their life still sometimes roll through the gym with good looking girls.

My physique alone has never gotten me laid. Maybe once 2 years ago at a party I got to finger a girl after she saw my abs. And that girl was a self admitted fitness enthusiast. Other than that I can't attribute my physique to anything other than a confidence boost and a conversation starter. I know it hurts guys to admit this, but muscles don't mean as much as face and height. It hurts to admit cuz we can't control those things, but women select harder for those things.

When you really see muscles take a guy above and beyond is when he already has 1 or 2 things going for him and his physique pushes him over the edge. For example a dude with an above average face and rare eye color with muscle is going to slay. Or a guy with height and muscle to make him look like a god or superhero character.

For guys like me who are short, average face, and went bald before the age of 20, muscle is nothing but compensation to make up for the genetics we weren't blessed with and to increase our physical presence.

Also like another poster mentioned, western society is evolving to lower the standards for women and raise the standards for men. A lot of guys with top 5% physiques are on steroids and to get the male model look you see in magazines and on screens, performance enhancing drugs are totally necessary. Meanwhile, women can get a man if she's 30 lbs overweight and wearing sweatpants. The game is totally rigged against us in the west.

The fact that I as a college educated, buff as fuck, stylish guy, with a decent job and above average social skills have to work my ass off to get hot chicks shows how fucked things have become. I have to go above and beyond just to be in the game.

Now I encourage all men to lift, but unless you're 8% bodyfat or on performance enhancers or you're ALREADY genetically gifted somehow, do not expect your physique to save you. It won't. It helps but it won't wet panties by itself except for a very small percentage of women who fetishize the bodybuilder look. You're entering niche territory when you reach a certain level of muscularity and leanness there's diminishing returns. Don't get caught in the bodybuilder's trap of thinking "man if I just develop my upper chest and rear delts more and then cut I'll be able to get the girl I want". It's folly. I've been there.

Also I got higher quality girls when I was a scrawny drug dealer than I do now that I'm a buff as fuck career guy. Bitches are fuckin stupid.

Post: #250

I am with you 100% on this post.

I have also been working out since the age of 16 and have been the buff guy and gone back down and gone up again.

Being buff does help but it its not a switch that gets your laid. That dude in the Youtube video is actually already good looking and having that body puts him over the top. I bet he would still do well if he was an average or even just with an athletic build.

The order in my of importance for women in my experience of game is this:

1. Height
2. Face (not sure if i should add hair to this)
3. Body

As long as YOUR GAME and those features are in line you will get 8+ without problems.

Can't get an 8 or above? (I have trouble myself) One of those are out of standard.

Unfortunately, without surgery some of those are just out of reach and thats why you have to have a STRONG GAME and emphasize on what can control.