(05-02-2016 11:59 AM)Fortis Wrote: This isn't a poke at you in particular, SuS, but I always get the impression that dudes over think race, especially us Americans.
I have European friends who are mixed and they simply don't take it the same way that american might. Sure, their dad is black and mom is white, but they're British and that's just what it is. I can't speak to their experiences, but I don't get the impression that they think about it all that much, but I could be wrong.
Meanwhile, I've got an American half-black/half-white friend who was obsessing over race so much that he contrived this hilarious story of how he's probably 51% white because his family (on the black side) descended from slaves, so some rape must have gone and so he's clearly mostly white. Just absurd.
Americans are the only people who will tell you they're 1/16th native american (as though it matters). I think race obsession is a uniquely American thing. I was talking with Belgrano (forum member here) and he was laughing about how in the NOLA area they had different classifications for people all based on how much black you had in you: octaroon, decaroon etc. It's all just hilariously contrived to an outsider's eye.
It is interesting that this has come up here because I've been having these conversations online for a while with regard to football (soccer) and they have shed a lot of light on this topic for me.
I'm a supporter of the Jamaican national football (soccer) team and I take a strong interest generally in the goings on of the Jamaican diaspora generally in all things. Soccer brings up a lot of topics relating to the diaspora in this context because Jamaica is a land of migrants - there are as many people with Jamaican heritage outside of Jamaica as within it. The main hotspots are the UK, Canada, and USA.
In international football (for those who aren't into soccer), national teams are allowed to recruit players to represent them who may not have been born in their country, but have an ancestral tie (through a parent or grandparent) to it.
What this effectively means is that though Jamaica itself only has a little under 3 million people on the island, it is able to recruit soccer talent from the UK, USA, and Canada from among the descendants of Jamaican migrants in those lands. The current Jamaican national team consists of many players born and raised in England who have Jamaican-born parents or grand-parents. The youth teams include a lot of players with Jamaican parents who were raised in places like Atlanta, New York City, and Philadelphia.
Studying the dynamics behind Jamaican football's recruitment and general interaction with players in its diaspora revealed a lot to me about the different cultures in play and how they each integrate Jamaican migrants and their children. It showed that the USA, Canada, and the UK are far from the same in how they view Afro-Caribbean immigrants and how they treat them.
Whenever I got into discussion with Englishmen about all of the players in England who have Jamaican blood and are eligible to represent Jamaica, I ran into a confounding issue: the refusal of many to even acknowledge that these players were anything but English and, even in the case of those who made such acknowledgement, the refusal to acknowledge that said Jamaican heritage mattered relative to their English identity.
At first, I couldn't understand why this was. I figured that perhaps the English were tapping into their historical imperial sentiments and dismissing the relevance/value of a much smaller former colony. Maybe they were just ignorant, or arrogant, or some combination of those things, and it is this that caused them to be so dismissive of Jamaican ancestral ties within their population.
Over time, I came to realize that these were not the main issues. The real cause was simple: integration.
The English simply do a better job of integrating Afro-British peoples (especially the Caribbeans) than others do. Jamaicans in England feel more British than Jamaican in America feel American.
Sure enough, this is illustrating in the soccer recruiting dynamics I outlined earlier. Jamaica has a pretty hard time getting English-born players to represent the country. For every one that commits, three or four others either dismiss Jamaica outright or show limited/lukewarm interest. It is very hard for Jamaica to get high quality English-Jamaicans to represent Jamaica, even when it is clear that said players have no hope of representing England. It seems that many of these players would rather wait for an England call that will never come than represent Jamaica. It is also very tough for English Jamaican to get players early. The number who commit to Jamaica early in their careers (as teens or in their early twenties) is minuscule - most only join after age 26 or so (the bulk are closer to 30). The ones who commit early do so after facing heavy pressure from parents and relatives to wait longer just in case England calls (even when the odds of England doing so seem close to nil).
Contrast this with the Americans, who are about as enthusiastic as it gets. They commit early (there are tons of American-born Jamaicans in the Jamaican Under 17 and Under 20 squads), flaunt their nationality proudly on all their social media profiles and sports bios, mention it in every interview, and are usually supported wholeheartedly by their parents in declaring for Jamaica (in fact, the parents are some of the biggest motivators in their declaration). They'll fly down to the island for camps, host Jamaican-born prospects at their homes when they come to visit for trials/camps in the states, recruit other Jamaican-Americans, and generally do anything and everything they can to show their commitment to Jamaica.
Why the difference? It's integration. The English-born are far better integrated into mainstream English society than their American born counterparts. They feel more English than their American counterparts feel American. They belong more fully to England than the Americans belong to America. This makes them more distant from their Jamaican roots, and more generally dismissive of it. When you talk to them and ask them what they are, they'll say they're English. Not "1/2 Jamaican" or "1/4 Jamaican", not "English-Jamaican" or "Jamaican-English", but just English. That's it. Press them and they'll tell you their gran or mum was born on the islands, but that's as far as it goes.
I've gotten the chance to see some of this dynamic in my own family. I was born in the USA, but my mother is English-born and raised. Her parents were Jamaican migrants to England, part of the massive wave that came in the 50's and 60's. My mother moved to the USA for school, had me, and stuck around, but most of her extended family (my aunts and second/third cousins) stayed in the UK. In interacting with the British branch of my family, I can see first hand the differences between us.
They intermarry at a FAR higher rate. We spend a lot of time here talking about the barriers that face black men looking to date outside the race here in the USA - these barriers are far lower in the UK. Almost all of the women in my extended family are with white Englishmen. Most of the men are dating interacially as well. And it's not just us - the mixing has gotten so intense that several news articles written not long ago lamented the coming extinction of the British Afro-Caribbean people due to intermarriage. More than HALF of Black British men of Caribbean blood in the UK (and over a third of the women) were marrying out according to the statistics cited by these articles, and I've seen first hand what they were talking about. Such a state of affairs would be unimaginable here in the USA - the stigma attached to IR dating alone is just so much greater as to make the situations incomparable.
They are also far more comfortable with the majority than I find we are here in the states. Race relations in the USA carry with them so much tension that, sometimes, it almost feels like we're at war. It shows on us too - several posters in this thread have pointed out the propensity of American-born brothas in this thread to hold a certain type of viewpoint that is more pessimistic and perhaps a little less self-confident than that seem from others who've been raised outside the states.
I think their observations are on point, and the cause is simple: it is a war here, and it does wear you down. I've written about it
multiple times on the forum. It's hard to feel one with a society that seems fundamentally hostile to what you are, filled with people who are uncomfortable with what you are.
In the UK, the intensity of this fight is just toned down dramatically. My relatives talk and interact in a way that doesn't show anywhere near the same level of tension and discomfort with the majority (this is also reflected in the aforementioned higher intermarriage rates). My mother once said to me that the very best white friends she ever made were during her time in England, and that she was able to mesh there better than she ever has here. This is saying something since her time in England came during a time in which things were substantially less progressive than they are now (50's, 60's, 70's). Racial incidents occurred and she never forgot them, but on the whole my mother noted that there was just a more welcoming, friendly feel about working with the majority there than she's seen in her 30 years living here.
All of this is to say that my personal observations support your conclusion about the differences between Americans and others in how much attention is place on race, and the cause is integration. The Black British are not totally free of racial turbulence, but have a majority populace that is less openly hostile to them, more open about what they can be/who they may be (they're not typecasted as often into stereotypes the way black Americans are, i.e. "acting black", "acting white", etc), and a mainstream majority culture far more willing to embrace them fully (not just on a surface level). All of this makes them feel more at home, and more willing to disregard their heritage (including whatever racial identity comes with it) and just call themselves Englishmen. Race isn't in their face 24/7 and they're not constantly beaten over the head with it as a means to determine who they should be, so it's easier for its to fade into the background and allow them to just blend in.
Circling this back to football, check out this response I got from an English football fan recently in a discussion about English-Jamaican dual nationals and the role they play in many top English teams (including recent English Premier League Champions Leicester, whose captain in English-born but represents Jamaica). Here is what they guy said:
Quote:I know a lot of guys with Caribbean parents, and honestly without them mentioning it at one point or another I wouldn't have even known it. They're just so very similar to your average guy
The quote blew me away. He looked at guys with Caribbean parents (guys who I presume are black/mixed race like the bulk of Caribbeans) and just saw someone similar to "your average guy". He didn't mention their appearance at all, and it doesn't seem as though their appearance clued him in on the notion that they might be the children of migrants (even though it'd have been reasonable of him if it did - the vast majority of black britons are only on their 3rd generation in the UK, most having arrived after 1950. If you're black and British, you're almost certainly the child or grandchild of immigrants).
The way he described the guys he knew almost totally separated race from the equation in describing their identity. It flashed at me immediately because of how rare it's been in my lifetime - this kind of thing simply doesn't happen in the USA. Race is always a part of the equation in American society, and a significant part at that. How you are perceived, treated, expected to behave/interact, and even just generally live your life is always touched by assumptions tied to your race/ethnicity. You're never just "the average guy". Average BLACK guy, maybe, but to have someone (particularly someone of the dominant majority) look at you in such a way as to totally disregard race as a factor in their determination of your identity? No way.
This is unheard of in the USA, but in the UK there are a very large number of people who feel this way and thing this way. They're the same people who, whenever I get into a discussion with them about English-Jamaican players, insist the players are not Jamaican at all, just English. It's not just a disrespect for Jamaica, but a simply a dismissal of their heritage (and the race that it comes with) as a factor in their identity. The fact that these men are of Jamaican heritage and predominantly West African extraction is just totally irrelevant to them - they're as English as everyone else in their birth and upbringing and that's all that matters.
In America, things are very different. Race impacts everything we do here. Mainstream culture is far more hostile/less welcoming, blacks are typecasted constantly (resulting in all the "acting white/acting black" bs and the assorted romantic, social, and cultural hurdles that come with it and create more tension), and racial turbulence is far more acute both now and in the recent past. Slavery, Jim Crow/Segregation, and the one-drop rule are among the rules/systems that were never enforced in the British Isles; the residents of the English-homeland never had occasion to abide such systems and their consequential effects on the perception of non-white peoples and their place in society. In America, however, these things are all fundamental to American existence and were foundational aspects of America's legal, political, and economic system from its founding as a colony in the 17th century to the middle of the 20th century (remember that it was only about 50 years ago that it became legal in all states for a black male to marry a non-black woman and vice-versa).
This is all incredibly relevant today - we're in a country that based its social and economic foundation on the explicit hierarchical subjugation of black people as inferiors (first with slavery and then Jim Crow/segregation) for almost the entirety of its existence, from the establishment of the 13 colonies in 1607 until about 1970. That's about 363 years out of the total of about 410 that the USA has existed in one form of another - this is not something that just goes away. The hostility toward blacks that underlined such systems and made their persistence possible didn't just disappear in the last 4 decades. It's still here, and we feel that.
Because we live with that here in the states, it is harder for us to forget about our race/ethnicity and just "be" as our English counter-parts do. Instead, we obsess about our race. We obsess about percentages of our racial ancestry and everything else related to it because it matters here in a way it just doesn't in the UK. It looks absurd to many outsiders, but that's only because said outsiders didn't evolve in lands subject to America's historical race-centric norms and have never lived in a society flooded with the consequences of such norms to anywhere near the same extent.
Sometimes I wish English Jamaicans were as enthusiastic about developing and representing Jamaica as their American counterparts because I want to see a stronger Jamaica, boosted by ALL members of its diaspora. I dream of seeing all of the best individuals of Jamaican blood representing Jamaica in all things, not just football, for the benefit of the island. I know this won't happen because of the distance that integration creates for English-Jamaicans with respect to their heritage. I'm disappointed by this, but at the same time I kind of envy them.
I grew up wishing quite often that I could just be "a guy" and not "a guy who is black" or "the black guy". I grew up hoping that my race wouldn't matter so much to people I interacted with, just the way it clearly didn't matter much to the English fan above when he interacted with all of those guys with Caribbean parents (seeing them as merely "average guys" and totally ignoring their racial background/heritage). I wished I could just devote less energy to the whole topic of race and everything related to it. Some of my British peers get to live something closer (as in not a perfect panacea, but several steps in the right direction) to this dream but, unfortunately, that's just not possible here in the USA. It is nice to feel like you truly belong in your country to a point at which it is all you are and race can become more secondary, but having been born and raised here in the USA, I'll probably never know quite how that feels.