Post: #1

We all know the look: The over-weight, puffy-faced (often with beard to compensate for lack of testosterone) beta males that have swept the Western World, often seen with females that are markedly talker than they are. The men waddle along like pussies, the women march as if they were toting a 10 lb steel nut sack by comparison.

However, I can honestly say that looking back at around 2005, I do not remember any of them in any social setting.

What year did the explosion occur? I honest can’t remember when the shift occurred.

Post: #2

(02-02-2016 10:15 AM)jackson.henley Wrote:  We all know the look: The over-weight, puffy-faced (often with beard to compensate for lack of testosterone) beta males that have swept the Western World, often seen with females that are markedly talker than they are. The men waddle along like pussies, the women march as if they were toting a 10 lb steel nut sack by comparison.

However, I can honestly say that looking back at around 2005, I do not remember any of them in any social setting.

What year did the explosion occur? I honest can’t remember when the shift occurred.

Obama administration.

Post: #3

I wouldn't consider these kinds of guys "beta males". I'd call these guys manginas, SJWs, or hipster faggots. When I think of a traditional "beta male" I just think of a normal guy who works hard and is well meaning but just doesn't have a dominant personality and isn't really aware of female nature or other red pill ideas.

It annoys me how a lot of people on the forum automatically equate betas to low T male feminist SJW types. The vast majority of men have been and will always be beta, as beta and alpha only exist relative to each other. If everyone is alpha then no one is alpha.

Post: #4

I agree with only one man, but I'd say there has absolutely been an explosion of msngins hipster wusses. I'd say hipster fags but I'd like to be clear that I think most of these men are still hetero, just wsy, way off track as to how a man should be.

Post: #5

2013, country went fullretard that year.

For those that take the subway or some type of public transportation to work, do you ever take stock of the men around you?

Body language, dress, vibe, etc etc.

You can almost immediately tell the three groups: WHBW (would have beer with), MHBW (maybe have beer with), and run for the hills.

Post: #6

Some would pin it on some great cultural struggle between good and evil, but we are simpler than that.
I put it down to a decline in physical testosterone.

Daily hot showers with scrotum damaging heat. Also with estrogenic chemicals generously rubbed on the skin and scalp.
Plastic contaminated water - BPA is released by heat, and showerheads are usually plastic.

Antibiotics regularly nuking gut flora as well as the infection it was supposed to kill. Talk about friendly fire.
Decline in variety of gut flora in pregnant mothers and thus the fetus; aversion to fermented food; sterilised farm produce no longer carrying beneficial soil bacteria. Worse gut flora situation every generation.

Replacement of hearty breakfasts like oatmeal, buttered bread, or the English breakfast with bowls of sugared snacks.
Confusion of adult female diets with male diets or children's diets. I once met a woman who fed her children rice crackers because they are "healthy."
For the same reasons, dietary fat is now considered unhealthy.
Women no longer know how to cook anything that requires two or three hours prep time, which rules out many old family staples like boeuf bourguignon or Irish stew. You can forget about a Sunday roast. We think of this as impacting our girlfriends' usefulness, but consider the fact that women are responsible for feeding each male generation during its formative years.
Ruin the diet, ruin the man.

(02-02-2016 11:03 AM)Only One Man Wrote:  I wouldn't consider these kinds of guys "beta males". I'd call these guys manginas, SJWs, or hipster faggots. When I think of a traditional "beta male" I just think of a normal guy who works hard and is well meaning but just doesn't have a dominant personality and isn't really aware of female nature or other red pill ideas.

It annoys me how a lot of people on the forum automatically equate betas to low T male feminist SJW types. The vast majority of men have been and will always be beta, as beta and alpha only exist relative to each other. If everyone is alpha then no one is alpha.

Not strictly true. If I can direct you here, you'll see that an entire regional male population can have behaviour that would be considered firmly alpha by today's standards, even within our own culture. Perhaps the standards for alpha status have fallen because men have declined with them?

Post: #7

(02-02-2016 12:00 PM)greekgod Wrote:  2013, country went fullretard that year.

For those that take the subway or some type of public transportation to work, do you ever take stock of the men around you?

Body language, dress, vibe, etc etc.

You can almost immediately tell the three groups: WHBW (would have beer with), MHBW (maybe have beer with), and run for the hills.

I concur, what year did the Avengers movie come out? The movement of comic books becoming main stream has brought the manginas out of the android's dungeon and into the light.

See also gamergate for giving them a public voice vs. atomic wedgie.

It also coincides with the rise of dating apps. Jocks and queen bee bitches are glued to their iphones and tinder so that the neckbearded nerds can now wander the streets and shopping malls without fear of random beatings as the jocks at at home, at the gym or in some chick's pussy, not daygaming anymore.

Post: #8

I think it goes back longer than that, guys. I remember these sorts of physical types even in the 1990s. There was a slow evolution of it all through the 90s, but the new millenia really saw a big uptick in volume. The economic collapse, total surrender of the establishment to feminism, and years of morale-destroying, anti-male culture then really took its toll.

And keep in mind that appearances can be deceptive. Just because some guys is in shape, does not necessarily mean he is not a "beta." By the same token, just because some guy is currently a flabby marshmallow, does not mean that he can't improve himself.

I know it's rare, and it's not the rule, but positive change can happen. I suspect that there are a lot of flabby neckbeards out there who have some potential, if only given the right conditioning, environment, and guidance.

Don't give up on those guys yet. It's tempting, and I'll admit that a real turnaround is rare, but you never know.

.

Post: #9

(02-02-2016 11:03 AM)Only One Man Wrote:  I wouldn't consider these kinds of guys "beta males". I'd call these guys manginas, SJWs, or hipster faggots. When I think of a traditional "beta male" I just think of a normal guy who works hard and is well meaning but just doesn't have a dominant personality and isn't really aware of female nature or other red pill ideas.

It annoys me how a lot of people on the forum automatically equate betas to low T male feminist SJW types. The vast majority of men have been and will always be beta, as beta and alpha only exist relative to each other. If everyone is alpha then no one is alpha.

Thank you.

Vox Day has an excellent classification system involving seven Greek letters.

According to it, the OP is asking about Omegas.

Vox Day Wrote:I have a great deal of respect for Roissy's analysis of the female psyche. Even the mere terms he applies, in addition to being hilarious, provide tremendous insight for the average, clueless man who finds himself bewildered by the behavior of women around him. After all, what man could possibly assign much importance to the logical conclusions of a woman's "rationalization hamster". And many of the techniques he recommends will significantly increase the average man's ability to get off on the right foot with women regardless of whether a casual encounter or marriage is the goal.

However, it must be kept in mind that Roissy's social construction of Game is intentionally limited in two ways. The overly simplistic division of men into Alphas and Betas is the natural result of his laser-like focus on scoring vs not scoring. Either you score or you don't score; scoring is Alpha and not-scoring is Beta. QED. And this singular, binary focus also leaves out the many other applications of the male social hierarchy that have nothing to do with women, much less sex. Note that this is not a criticism of Roissy's construct or his conclusions, but rather a tangential expansion of it. Whereas in Game there are only Alphas who score and Betas who don't, except for the Betas who learn the secret of becoming synthetic Alphas, I have come over time to view things in the following manner:

Alphas - the male elite, the leaders of men for whom women naturally lust. Their mere presence sets women a-tingle regardless of whether she is taken or not. Once you've seen beautiful married women ignoring tall, handsome, wealthy, and even famous men because that ugly old troll Henry Kissinger walked in the room, you simply can't deny the reality of Alphadom. Example: Captain Kirk, Big from Sex in the City. Suggestion: Do you see a scoreboard? Right, so relax already!

Betas - the lieutenants, the petty aristocracy. They're popular, they do well with women, they're pretty successful in life, and they may even be exceptionally good-looking. But they lack the Alpha's natural self-confidence and strength of character. They're not leaders and they're not the men to whom women are helplessly drawn. Most men who like to think they're Alphas because of their success are actually Betas. Most Betas won't change their game because they don't really have any need or reason to do so. This is probably the easiest social slot in which to find yourself, since the Beta enjoys many of the benefits of Alphadom without being trapped in the Alpha's endless cycle of competition. Example: Brad Pitt Suggestion: Have some compassion for the less naturally fortunate. Try to include them once in awhile.

Deltas - the great majority of men. These are Roissy's Betas. Almost all of you reading this are Deltas despite the natural desire to believe that you are a brave and bold Alpha snowflake notwithstanding. Deal with it. There's absolutely nothing wrong with being a Delta, it's just a simple statistical and observable reality. The sooner you accept the truth about yourself, the sooner you will be able to control your unconscious inclinations and modify your behavior in a manner that will help you achieve your goals. I've gone out of alphabetical order here because delta symbolizes change, which most Deltas are capable to some extent. Hence the synthetic alpha instruction set known as Game. Example: Probably you. Suggestion: Never forget that there are plenty of girls on the girl tree.

Gammas - the obsequious ones, the posterior puckerers, the nice guys who attempt to score through white-knighting, faux-chivalry, flattery, and omnipresence. All men except true Alphas will occasionally fall into Gamma behavior from time to time, this is the behavior and attitude that Roissy is attempting to teach men to recognize and avoid. The dividing line between a Gamma and a Delta is that the Gamma genuinely believes in the Gamma reality to the very core of his soul whereas the Delta is never truly comfortable with himself when he behaves in this manner despite being thoroughly indoctrinated in it by his culture. Example: Probably you if you've found yourself complaining about your lack of female companionship over the last two years. Suggestion: Remember that the statement "all are fallen" applies to women too. She isn't any more naturally pure or holy or ethereal than you are.

Lambdas - the gays. They have their own social hierarchy. They can fill any role from Alpha to Omega, but they tend to play the part rather than actually be it because the heterosexual social construct only encompasses the public part of their lives. Example: Neil Patrick Harris. Suggestion: Straights will be more tolerant if you keep the bathhouse behavior behind closed doors.

Sigmas - the lone wolves. Occasionally mistaken for Alphas, particularly by women and Alphas, they are not leaders and will actively resist the attempt of others to draft them. Alphas instinctively view them as challenges and either dislike or warily respect them. Some Deltas and most Omegas fancy themselves Sigmas, but the true Sigma's withdrawal from the pack is not a reaction to the way he is treated, it is pure instinct. Example: Clint Eastwood's movie persona. Suggestion: Entertain the possibility that other people are not always Hell. The banal idiocy is incidental, it's not intentional torture.

Omegas - the losers. Even the Gamma males despise them. That which doesn't kill them can make them stronger, but most never surmount the desperate need to belong caused by their social rejection. Omegas can be the most dangerous of men because the pain of their constant rejection renders the suffering of others completely meaningless in their eyes. Omegas tend to cluster in defensive groups; the dividing line between the Omega and the Sigma is twofold and can be easily recognized by a) the behavior of male Betas and Deltas and b) the behavior of women. Women tend to find outliers attractive in general, but while they respond to Sigmas almost as strongly as they do to Alphas, they correctly find Omega males creepier and much scarier than Gamma males. Example: Eric Harris Suggestion: Your rejection isn't entirely personal. Observe the difference in your own behavior and the way the Betas act. And try not to start off conversations with women by sharing "interesting facts" with them.

I'm not claiming that this hierarchy is science or incontrovertible fact, it's merely the lens through which I tend to view the current sexual-social hierarchy. I think it is a little more broadly useful from a theoretical perspective than the Game construct, even if it is less immediately applicable from a tactical point of view.

Post: #10

(02-02-2016 01:09 PM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  I think it goes back longer than that, guys. I remember these sorts of physical types even in the 1990s. There was a slow evolution of it all through the 90s, but the new millenia really saw a big uptick in volume. The economic collapse, total surrender of the establishment to feminism, and years of morale-destroying, anti-male culture then really took its toll.

And keep in mind that appearances can be deceptive. Just because some guys is in shape, does not necessarily mean he is not a "beta." By the same token, just because some guy is currently a flabby marshmallow, does not mean that he can't improve himself.

I know it's rare, and it's not the rule, but positive change can happen. I suspect that there are a lot of flabby neckbeards out there who have some potential, if only given the right conditioning, environment, and guidance.

Don't give up on those guys yet. It's tempting, and I'll admit that a real turnaround is rare, but you never know.

.

Agreed, I'd say late 90s saw the rise of the beta, coincided almost exactly with the rise of the internet.

I'd say the introduction of TV in the 50s & 60s was the first catalyst that split the sexual market down the middle, that was when the difference between the OG alphas and betas was made known for the whole world to see. After Elvis and rock & roll was unleashed on the world, women went crazy with sexual desire for the OG alpha playboy from coast to coast. Since anyone could turn on their TV and see alphas at work across the world, for women the lovable beta guy next door was placed in stark contrast, and the sexual market has never been the same since then. The baby boomers and people from that generation who were teens in the 60s went on to marry and have kids in the 70s and 80s, so the first generation of betas raised in the modern media era would be coming to adulthood as teens in the late 90s. This coincided almost exactly with the rise of the internet in the late 90s, which has unleashed a beta plague on the world we never thought was possible.

Post: #11

I think there's a basis in the rise of single mothers who didn't think a father was necessary in raising children.

20 years later, these are the "men" we see around us.

Post: #12

I'd like to say the more of these the better as that means more women for us. Which is true... But there's also more poundage available to us also because these limp wristed beta types lower competition among females and they all get fat, bitchy and shitty.

Post: #13

(02-02-2016 10:15 AM)jackson.henley Wrote:  We all know the look: The over-weight, puffy-faced (often with beard to compensate for lack of testosterone) beta males that have swept the Western World, often seen with females that are markedly talker than they are. The men waddle along like pussies, the women march as if they were toting a 10 lb steel nut sack by comparison.

However, I can honestly say that looking back at around 2005, I do not remember any of them in any social setting.

What year did the explosion occur? I honest can’t remember when the shift occurred.

I know quite a few short fat guys that are as alpha as it gets.

Betas have always been a part of human society, and I'm pretty sure that there never has been a height nor weight requirement.

Post: #14

(02-02-2016 04:10 PM)hydrogonian Wrote:  

(02-02-2016 10:15 AM)jackson.henley Wrote:  We all know the look: The over-weight, puffy-faced (often with beard to compensate for lack of testosterone) beta males that have swept the Western World, often seen with females that are markedly talker than they are. The men waddle along like pussies, the women march as if they were toting a 10 lb steel nut sack by comparison.

However, I can honestly say that looking back at around 2005, I do not remember any of them in any social setting.

What year did the explosion occur? I honest can’t remember when the shift occurred.

I know quite a few short fat guys that are as alpha as it gets.

Betas have always been a part of human society, and I'm pretty sure that there never has been a height nor weight requirement.

I'm not talking about short alpha types. Perhaps I didn't describe the type I had in mind accurately. They tend to have move baby fat around their face, but are just short of obese. I do not remember girls dating them back in 2006. Esp. in a country like Germany. Dateable guys tended to be slim, even if not super good looking. Something shifted dramatically.

Post: #15

Roissy talked about this.


The increasingly common bearded faggot you're describing sounds more like an herb.

I think there was a quote that went something like:

"A beta fears the whole time that his girl will cheat on him,
The herbs girl is cheating on him the whole time and he has no idea."

I also like the statement above, about betas being well meaning normal guys who just aren't dominant enough. They "get by".

Post: #16

The seed was planted in the 90s:



Friends (1994-2004)

And watered in the 2000s:



How I Met Your Mother (2005-2014)

These two shows were watched by millions (Friends averages 20-25 million per episode and HIMYM averaged around 10 million per an episode) and had a lot of influence on not just men and their behavior but women as well. And not just adults but impressionable teenagers.

I once watched How I Met Your Mother with a plate once and the behavior of the men and women in the show is beyond repulsive. The women are cunts and the men are bitches but this plate ate it all up like that shit was normal. And the one semi-player guy is a out and proud faggot in real life (so no one takes him seriously).

Not to discount other significant factors like militant feminism, political correctness, etc, etc but I think these two shows (along with lesser popular shows that made men look like bitches) had significant influence in creating beta bitch men and cunty snarky women.

Post: #17

(02-02-2016 01:09 PM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  I think it goes back longer than that, guys. I remember these sorts of physical types even in the 1990s. There was a slow evolution of it all through the 90s, but the new millenia really saw a big uptick in volume. The economic collapse, total surrender of the establishment to feminism, and years of morale-destroying, anti-male culture then really took its toll.

And keep in mind that appearances can be deceptive. Just because some guys is in shape, does not necessarily mean he is not a "beta." By the same token, just because some guy is currently a flabby marshmallow, does not mean that he can't improve himself.

I know it's rare, and it's not the rule, but positive change can happen. I suspect that there are a lot of flabby neckbeards out there who have some potential, if only given the right conditioning, environment, and guidance.

Don't give up on those guys yet. It's tempting, and I'll admit that a real turnaround is rare, but you never know.

.

Fully agree with you. You have to consider the totality of the presentation. Out of shape can just mean DGAF which is "alpha" or could mean slovenly slob which is "gamma"?

There are plenty of in shape dweebs that are beholden to external pressures and doing what society says.

Its hard to define but you always know it when you see it.

As it is, you're really looking for whats in between the ears anyways.

Post: #18

(02-02-2016 05:42 PM)The Black Knight Wrote:  Not to discount other significant factors like militant feminism, political correctness, etc, etc but I think these two shows (along with lesser popular shows that made men look like bitches) had significant influence in creating beta bitch men and cunty snarky women.

No mention of TV's influence on creating "cunty snarky women" would be complete without mentioning Sex and the City. It literally sparked an entire movement of them, and to this day every "snarky cunt" that I've ever gotten to know well enough, to be able to know this, worships that show.


That said it goes MUCH further back than the 90's and much of it came through the music. Supreme talks about how in the 70's he noticed how stupid it was that other black people were trying to wear their shirts inside out, then they were able to push the sagging pants( a homosexual activity) into popular culture.

Post: #19

Goes back to the early 90's and grunge. Grunge let guys grow their hair and beards, dress like slobs, and stop showering. Watch the movie Singles (1992) and tell me these aren't the herbs you're looking for?

As a contrast, then watch Weekend at Bernies (1989) to see the style before grunge. Guys still had their shit together.

Post: #20

(02-02-2016 04:33 PM)jackson.henley Wrote:  I'm not talking about short alpha types. Perhaps I didn't describe the type I had in mind accurately. They tend to have move baby fat around their face, but are just short of obese. I do not remember girls dating them back in 2006. Esp. in a country like Germany. Dateable guys tended to be slim, even if not super good looking. Something shifted dramatically.

With all due respect, and I mean it, it seems as if the incredulity over overweight alphas is reflective of a little personal insecurity over the fact that you maybe feel that women should be with men that you feel are value higher than who they are with - perhaps you or guys that you rank to be more or less on your personal value level.

If these men are behaving like betas, then that is something else. Women can hang around such men for different reasons, but these women tend to have issues unless they are blood relatives of those men.

Sometimes women are with beta men who are good at social signaling or who are mere status signals because of their looks (and hence she gains status by being on the guy's arm) but that isn't game and trust me when I say that that pussy is going to eventually go dry for those guys if they don't have game. Incidentally, my 9.5-ish in looks (very aesthetically German) brother just lost his girlfriend, who was a solid 9, after two years largely because he's clueless about deeper game despite having plowed through dozens of women since having moved to Lower Manhattan six years ago. This is a guy who told me that, when he was living in SOHO amongst celebrities, that no celebrity had anything on his sex life. Upon the surprise breakup, he was as devastated as any unprepared man would be. Next time, he'll be more alpha and keep her for longer. I wouldn't be surprised at all if she is now with a man of lesser looks, and who is even a little chubby, but who is better at relationship game (being consistently alpha). My brother mentioned that she has a history of dating guys with lesser looks.

Being chubby isn't inherently beta in the real world of male-female interaction. Though, I agree that alpha-behavior has to be more on-point if a guy is aesthetically challenged. Though, my view is that the alpha-factor should always be cranked up to the highest level, making the aesthetic factor always only marginally relevant within limits.

Again, no respect intended. Seriously. It's just unusual that someone would worry over the type of guys that women have a sexual interest in. The sexual interest of women tends to be pretty predictable, and I'm going to venture that these women aren't actually doing anything unusual. That is, these men have something going for them that is giving them fuck-worthy value above what is generally on-offer. An alpha personality will convey that value.

Game is about keeping that pussy wet for the indeterminate life of the relationship: five weeks or fifty years. That's what she wants, and it has very little to do with looks in the long term and within certain rare limits.

If you perceive other things to matter in Germany, you simply aren't used to overweight men or overweight alpha men. That's understandable given the culture. In the USA, overweight alphas are plentiful and if you were here you would have witnessed the fact that weight largely doesn't matter given enough alpha-ness. This would be a good observation for you, because thinking that game is somehow intimately connected with looks, past a first impression, will inhibit your game in general no matter what environment you are in.

One has to get to a point where they can turn around a girl's interest in that she re-categorizes you from friend zone (perhaps given initial first impression due to being overweight) to sexual threat with one line. When you can do that, you and she will unequivocally know that you are an alpha and she will often behave accordingly.

Post: #21

(02-02-2016 05:02 PM)HonantheBarbarian Wrote:  The herbs girl is cheating on him the whole time and he has no idea."

Part of this journey is coming to grips with the fact that women cheat all of the time on every type of guy, and will most often get away with it. Assuming that you aren't with her every day, it's always a possibility. Keeping that pussy wet with good relationship game will drastically lower the chance, but women almost always keep orbiters on the bench should the need arise. It can and does happen to everyone who dates.

Remember that girl who broke up with you that one time? Chances are that she was fucking someone else before she did it.

Post: #22

(02-02-2016 11:52 PM)hydrogonian Wrote:  If you perceive other things to matter in Germany, you simply aren't used to overweight men or overweight alpha men. That's understandable given the culture. In the USA, overweight alphas are plentiful and if you were here you would have witnessed the fact that weight largely doesn't matter given enough alpha-ness. This would be a good observation for you, because thinking that game is somehow intimately connected with looks, past a first impression, will inhibit your game in general no matter what environment you are in.

I'll second this.

If you think a fat, short guy can't be an alpha male and have attractive women on complete lockdown to him I challenge you to find a local biker bar. Go buy a drink, sit down, shut up and watch the game while you observe. I guarantee you won't feel that way about "short alphas" after hanging out in that environment for about fifteen minutes.

Post: #23

(02-02-2016 10:15 AM)jackson.henley Wrote:  We all know the look: The over-weight, puffy-faced (often with beard to compensate for lack of testosterone) beta males that have swept the Western World, often seen with females that are markedly talker than they are. The men waddle along like pussies, the women march as if they were toting a 10 lb steel nut sack by comparison.

However, I can honestly say that looking back at around 2005, I do not remember any of them in any social setting.

What year did the explosion occur? I honest can’t remember when the shift occurred.

Long but serious reply:

The main culprit is industrialization. The beginning of what we have today started in the Baby Boomer era; after WWII's economic boom, America became rapidly industrialized and eventually morphed into a consumer economy.

This has carried on further into GenX and now into Millennials. Coupled with advents such as welfare, single motherhood, and so many men growing up without dads, it's reached a crisis level.

Too much industrialization and convenience softens men. Because in this day and age a man can go his whole life without ever being in a fight. And many men work at androgynous desk jobs (with a PC culture no less), and so many outlets for entertainment, whether porn, video games, or cable TV exist that many men feel they don't even need sex.

Obesity likely plays a role too, as it's shown to directly lower testosterone.

So the end result is:

Generations of sheltered men, raised by single moms to act like women, who've never worked out or done anything physical, and never learned real advice on how to be attractive to women (having learned more about women from their mom, Disney movies or bad sitcoms made for women than from any real life experience).

They opt instead to be a brown-nosing sychophant who follows women around like a puppy dog, doing favors or 'buying her' stuff at her beck and call - trying to convince her how "nice" he is in hopes of scoring - all out of insecurity and jealousy of his own lack of masculinity. (In reality he secretly hates women and is seething with repressed sexual rage, which is why when many of these guys learn that women actually think they're useful idiots, they turn into full fledged misogynists and join loser groups like "MGTOW", proving the "nice" act was just a creepy facade from the get-go).

If there's ever a major economic crisis, social darwinism will take care of the problem on its own since these men never even would have been able to survive just 100 years ago.

And to a degree, this is already happening - hence why only 10% of men do 90% of the mating, and the constant stories of beta provider husbands waking up in shock to find his wife had been banging the neighborhood meth dealer for the last 5 years, and that his kids weren't even his - completely in shock that it happened because he "though he loved her so much" despite not even reading all of the most obvious cues.

Post: #24

Here is a link to a relevant post that I just made in another thread. Patrice is an overweight man who knows how to successfully apply alpha traits towards women overlooking his weight or otherwise mistaking him for a beta:

/thread-51743...pid1210124

Post: #25

They really exploded onto the scene when PC culture became a thing.

I remember being a kid and being like "hey fatty, lose some goddamn weight" to fat kids. But then, around high school (2003), it suddenly was not ok to call fat people fat in an amicable fashion.