Post: #1

http://www.rooshv.com/is-it-worthwhile-t...-activists

After his chat with Karen Straughan (GirlWritesWhat) about the relationship between Neomasculinity and the MRM, Roosh is slated to participate in a hour long live-chat with Paul Elam this week.

What do you guys think about the potential for a truce between us and MRAs?

Post: #2

AVFM is probably not going to happen. But they aren't all of the MRAs, just a specific group of them.

http://www.avoiceformen.com/allbulletins...ean-esmay/

Notice that they include Roosh in this, as evidence of how EVIL the AltRight is.

Even if Roosh counter-signaled the AltRight hard, I doubt AVFM would accept him. And I also doubt Roosh would be so passive-aggressive. Especially since he seems to side with the AltRight on a lot of issues, even if he has criticisms for them. But he could shed light on that himself if he wishes.

I mean, looking at what AVFM says the AltRight stands for it's not anything Roosh would find abominable. Even if he doesn't agree.

Quote:Then there is what is increasingly being called the “alt,” or alternative right, a smaller but growing faction of ideologues pushing autocratic theocracy, white nationalism, oppressive control of women and the control of men with shame. In their ranks we find the likes of RooshV and Ramzpaul.

I like how Ramzpaul is supposed to be terrifying when mentioned in this way.

Post: #3

Neomasculinity befriending the MRM is foolish.

Some MRM types will decide that they don't want to be defined by bitterness. When that time comes, neomasculinity will be there for them.

Proactively reaching out to these guys will be met with bitchass treachery of the highest order.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but these were the same guys that gave Roosh heat about "monetizing" his site/work/public speaking. If so, those dudes have a perma-victim complex that renders them untrustworthy, at best.

Ha, align with lesbians before those guys.

Post: #4

AVFM has trannies writing for them. How are we supposed to take seriously someone who is so obviously ashamed of their own masculinity to speak on behalf of masculinity?

Post: #5

No one's talking about inviting them to meetups and teaching them the secret RvF handshake.
Just... don't attack them. Attack other targets, and let them do whatever the hell it is MRAs do. I dunno, writing yet another post bitching about how fair alimony is, or maybe bragging about that one time they totally got out of paying child support.

But it's important to remember that A Voice for Men isn't the entire MRA. It's just some guys running a website, and there are plenty of other people out there. Karen Straughan seems legit. Helen Reynolds, the Instapundit's wife, has done more to publicize the struggles facing men than anybody on this forum. There's nothing wrong with talking.

Post: #6

(01-12-2016 01:21 AM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  No one's talking about inviting them to meetups and teaching them the secret RvF handshake.
Just... don't attack them. Attack other targets, and let them do whatever the hell it is MRAs do. I dunno, writing yet another post bitching about how fair alimony is, or maybe bragging about that one time they totally got out of paying child support.

But it's important to remember that A Voice for Men isn't the entire MRA. It's just some guys running a website, and there are plenty of other people out there. Karen Straughan seems legit. Helen Reynolds, the Instapundit's wife, has done more to publicize the struggles facing men than anybody on this forum. There's nothing wrong with talking.

I'd support something like that.

I enjoy watching SJW circular firing squads far too much to see it replicated on our side.

Post: #7

I wasn't even aware there was really any beef between them all. They do their shit over there, people here do their shit here.

Is this some sort of competition for revenue or publicity?

Post: #8

with all due respect to the OP

IDGAF

Post: #9

(01-12-2016 01:28 AM)cascadecombo Wrote:  I wasn't even aware there was really any beef between them all. They do their shit over there, people here do their shit here.

Is this some sort of competition for revenue or publicity?

I suspect they're just noticing how often Roosh or the Alt Right are labelled MRA's, (such as the Jimmy Kimmel 'Star Wars' sketch), and are trying to publicly-distance their movement in the eyes of the Media Leftists, as if the Media is capable of ever humanising them or their cause, and would ever take them seriously or entertain their issues.

Let them cough and splutter all they want. They'll never be taken seriously by the Left, and the fact they can't recognise this sums up the failure of their movement.

Post: #10

Quote:AVFM has trannies writing for them.

Do you have a link?

Post: #11

Worth an olive branch, just to keep the high ground. The enemy of my enemy and all that. I wouldn't expect much love though, as one is about understanding yourself and the world and improving yourself accordingly, the other is about blaming and butthurt, so there can never be complete reconciliation.

That said, my forays into the manosphere started with Girl Writes What, then to AVFM, realised that despite it's good points it's basically reverse-feminism, and then found Roissy and Roosh. So it's worth reaching out for the sake of awareness. You'd pick up a lot of traffic from people starting out.

Dean Esmay's Tweets about the Cologne assaults really rammed home why I don't bother with AVFM any more. Waaa, waaa, we're the real victims!

Post: #12

I mean ultimately you have to decide what sort of group they are. The mensheviks and the bolsheviks were ostensibly on the same side until the bolsheviks decided they need to control things and started putting ice picks in the menshevik's heads.

Frankly though I'd hate to see the manosphere turn into an ideology. Feminism is a great big pile of shit because it's essentially a collective of women that are made to parrot obvious falsehoods in order to reinforce ingroup cohesion. Right now our greatest weapon is empirical evidence, that's why most debates against leftists result in them either editing the video afterwards to make themselves look right (as with Roosh's TV appearances), or them losing it and storming off hysterically.

If recent events in US politics have shown us anything, it's that big tent political groups seem to be self-defeating in the long run. If there's a fundamental difference of opinion, trying to suppress that invariably fails in the long run. Blue collar white families that vote democrat because they're in a union are basically incompatible with black lives matter zealots, who are basically incompatible with brie and arugula virtue-signaling WASP liberals. Thus you see little Bernie Sanderstein feebly clutching his matzo balls while a couple of BLM land-whales steal his mic to rant about white privilege. Or Hillary being selected by the WASPs but losing ground because the other democrat voters have a sneaking suspicion she spends her free time biting the heads off of small furry animals.

Post: #13

I'm happy to see these two sections of the Manosphere at least talking. I never expect them to be united--and that's fine, I don't mind different groups talking about different things. But we have more in common then not. And I think MRA groups like AVFM do important stuff tacking and bringing light to the political issues that men face (I'm disappointed they didn't do another conference this year, the last one was a great educational and networking experience and brought a lot of attention to men's issues), whereas PUA/Neomasculinity is great for dealing with the social and romantic issues men face (I use those skills all the time), and MGTOW is great for developing that "Gynocentrism is real, I need to be able to see it and put myself first, I'm not going to sweat this gynocentric society" mentality that every man should have. I'm always happy to see those groups make an effort to at least not be hostile to each other, so we can all focus on what's important: helping men.

Post: #14

Exposure is exposure.

Post: #15

I don't know why the two groups starting sledging each other in the first place. There is little benefit to throwing semi-aligned groups under the bus.

There's always someone that wants to vehemently exclude others who agree with more than 50% of their own ideology's salient points. I just don't know why you would waste energy firing off at them at all when there are more pressing things to expend energy on. Like others have said, its not like the MSM is going to be precise in differentiating between groups in the manosphere, so there's no point. It reeks of schoolyard 'We're better than them' ingroup/outgrouping.

People drawn to investigate the groups will figure out their differences soon enough.

A cease fire makes sense to me.

Post: #16

Post: #17

(01-12-2016 03:43 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

Quote:AVFM has trannies writing for them.

Do you have a link?

There was a video by a tranny today:

http://www.avoiceformen.com/feminism/mal...are-funny/

Post: #18

(01-12-2016 10:23 AM)offthereservation Wrote:  He just wants to bang Karen

Doubt it. She is also a lesbian.

Post: #19

(01-12-2016 12:06 PM)debeguiled Wrote:  

(01-12-2016 03:43 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

Quote:AVFM has trannies writing for them.

Do you have a link?

There was a video by a tranny today:

http://www.avoiceformen.com/feminism/mal...are-funny/

Her Youtube profile confirms she is a tranny.

Quote:My name's Blaire - I am a trans girl speaking mostly about gender politics. I'm a men's rights activist as well as a trans activist.

6/10 WHBIIDKSWNAT(Would Have Banged If I Didn't Know She Was Not a Tranny)

Post: #20

I have some sympathy for both the MGTOW guys and for the MRA guys.

While there are always going to be some differences between groups, we are all trying to cope the best we can with the deeply hostile environment we are living in.

I see the world through a different prism than these groups, but I can respect guys who are in the arena, and fighting their corner.

I don't know Paul Elam, or really anything about his organization, but I don't like how the guy is continually maligned and attacked by the media. I suppose the guy's got a right to be bitter and angry. We need to understand the psychological dynamic that comes from feeling like you're standing alone against the world.

I've said my thoughts about the MGTOW guys before, and won't rehash that here.

The MRA guys are right about the fact that the legal system and institutions are a rigged game against men. And I have to give them credit for their longevity and pugnacity. Those guys put on a conference a few years back that everyone tried to sabotage and ban, and despite it all, they pulled it through.

I'll never criticize guys who are out there trying. The only inexcusable sin is giving up.

Post: #21

The fact that the MRA supports many legal reforms that we would shows there is utility to ally with them.

That said, once those reforms are achieved, it's back to pointing out their disgusting victim mentality and white knighting.

Post: #22

(01-12-2016 12:08 PM)PolymathGuru Wrote:  

(01-12-2016 10:23 AM)offthereservation Wrote:  He just wants to bang Karen

Doubt it. She is also a lesbian.

Nope, just has the haircut.

Post: #23

Quote: While I don’t think their cause should be merged with ours, I’m failing to see the need for us to attack each other out of petty differences or boredom.

Agree with Roosh on this 100%.

None of us on this forum will be MRAs. Ever. But so what? The enemy of our enemy can often make an excellent ally. Even if we don't share their world-view, we share enmity with social justice, what passes for "feminism" these days and with out-of-control political correctness.

When were SJWs at their most effective? When they were all united against the counter-culture people (including us) and we were infighting. However, infighting in the SJW circles is starting to become apparent. Now is the time to present a united front and it is as easy as refusing to attack someone who is on our side against THEM.

Post: #24

Much like the allies in WW2; different nations with a somewhat different way of doing things, but united against a collection of other nations hell-bent on their destruction. The USA didn't want to become the Soviet Union and vice-versa, but they formed a powerful alliance anyway.

There's enough enemies out there already. Different areas of the manosphere fighting each other is as dumb and counter-productive as a war between the different nations of Europe would be now.

Post: #25

I've spent the past year playing nice with moderates, and I've got the scars to prove it.

Here's what I've learned.

Moderates might make gestures of alliance with you for common cause, but the entire time you're working with them they are actively plotting against. you. I don't mean that they'll sell you out when it's convenient because they lack loyalty; I don't mean they'll take issue with one of your stances, and argue with you at the worst possible time. I mean they are actively and intentionally conspiring against you from day one.

The scorpion stings the frog because it gets a sudden urge, but with leftists and moderates it's more than that. They're planning for months in advance to betray you, and they're willing to harm their own cause for the sake of causing you pain. The only corollary I can give you is the insanity of narcissistic rage.

This leads to the question who is "us"? What is neomasculinity, the alt-right, libertarianism? The questions we deal with (sex, stable marriages, economics, racial integration, et cetera) are exceedingly complex and men of good faith can legitimately disagree on the best solutions to these problems. We don't identify our members by their beliefs, but by their moral and intellectual integrity.

The moderates and the left rationalize; they don't want to admit the consequences of their actions, or the inevitable results of their beliefs. They don't like that Anita Sarkeesian is shaking the boat and making the left bad, so they'll pretend alliances with us, but ultimately they just want a less obvious form of leftism. On our side, our intellectual integrity has forced us down some very strange paths, coming to some uncomfortable conclusions.

Just them by the fruit they bear.

Marriage is a particularly interesting topic, and one of the main focuses of the MRAs. The sane, neomasculine, alt-right view of marriage is that you need one leader - not a co-partner. That only men who are leaders will be attractive to their wives. And that a community of stable marriages is the best defence against government tyranny.

Some MRAs get this. Others just want more "equality" in divorce law, because right now it's mean and unfair to the menz. Their "liberty" - by which they mean licentiousness - is their primary concern. Not the survival of western civilization, or the celebration of masculinity, but the ability to dress in drag, to cheat on their wives, to celebrate their porn addiction, et cetera.

That, I believe, is the difference we should be looking at. For what it's worth, I hold Karen Straughn in rather high esteem.