Post: #76

"Everything changed after 9/11" is the worst misunderstanding ever. The world had been a dangerous place with assholes that want to hurt us for a long time, 9/11 just revealed it to the clueless.

Post: #77

(09-16-2015 10:04 AM)TigerMandingo Wrote:  [quote='Veloce' pid='1111490' dateline='1442332875']

Here's what I do know: the miniscule number of physicists and engineers who go against the grain and disagree with the official version have yet to submit their evidence for peer-review. Why? If these people are so confident in their version of events, why not submit it to academic journals and organizations to be evaluated?

For one thing, it's career suicide. This Swiss uni professor speaks about it - in German unfortunately:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgkQXJ3mugY

But there are quite many experts who agree that building 7 couldn't have collapsed as a result of fire only. I mean, it's pretty obvious, no? You can check out some videos on it on YouTube.

Post: #78

(09-15-2015 11:01 AM)Veloce Wrote:  

(09-14-2015 05:18 PM)TonySandos Wrote:  I can agree with most of what you say, and my questions about why the attack happened haven't been satisfied with answers, but why do you think it was impossible for mid-level structural damage to collapse two of the tallest buildings at the time? The only buildings taller existed in Indonesia, Taiwan, UAE, China and Saudi Arabia.

I saw the destruction sight in person before any reconstruction had started. There were buildings that looked to be impossibly distant to have taken damage from falling debris, but blocks away I saw large piece of buildings gone like Godzilla had came there. It is believable to me that 'building 7' was destroyed, so were two other buildings in the vicinity that were trade center buildings, according to the visitor placards. I understand skepticism and I think it's allowed people to not be led by malevolent 9/11 propaganda when a few make duty of debunking war rhetoric and such. I just come to a loss when people suggest that in such proportions, the steel couldn't be jerked down. I'm not shutting the idea down, but I remain unconvinced by others only voicing, "it can't!".

Let me introduce Mr. Larry Silverstein:



He's referring to building 7 here. It doesn't take a demolition expert to know that this isn't a videogame, you don't just send in a crew of sappers to rig a building and bring it down. It takes at least weeks, usually months of planning. Also, you don't give an order to "Pull it" to a fire chief. One of the WTC buildings was rigged for a demolition on the same day that terrorists attack and bring down 2 other neighboring buildings? Talk about odds...



@TigerMandingo I used to read Noam Chomsky when I was idealistic, pissed off teenager, but he's not someone I would turn to for an opinion or guidance on anything these days, much less the subject at hand. I would ask of him and others like yourself, Explain to me why building 7 was rigged for detonation on the same day that a terrorist attack occurred on two other buildings in the same complex? I'm more than willing to suspend my suspicions for a good 'ol fashioned coincidence, but unfortunately this is not one of those times.

He took out an insurance policy for $3.5 Billion in July? Did he have no coverage at all before this or was he just renewing/updating existing coverage? If he had no coverage on the property (highly doubtful, probably illegal) and took out a a large policy right before the attacks then that is very suspicious. Most likely he already had a policy in place and his annual renewal was in July.

Also, the fact that he was not in the building at 8:45 AM on a Tuesday is not a red flag. I imagine many people of his position and wealth are not clocking in at 8 and sitting at the desk all day long, they are out having breakfast meetings, going to appointments, shopping for yachts, playing golf, etc.

Memes like these are designed to rustle the jimmies of people who lack common sense or choose to ignore the obvious.

Post: #79

(09-16-2015 08:57 AM)NO_LIMIT_CRACKA Wrote:  The US is really egocentric about itself at times. We enjoy a perfectly secure geographical position, peace for centuries and then 1 event happens and the whole country goes into eternal shock and can't recover from it. While other countries have mass shootings and bombings and internal warfare and strife and people somehow manage to deal with it and go on about their life, our sheltered life has made us go into a catatonic state as soon as something out of the ordinary happens on our soil. Same thing happened during the Boston bombing, 2 nuts set off a couple bombs and the whole huge city completely shut down in panic.

What you are describing is explained in the book David vs. Goliath by Gladwell. The number of remote misses of bombs in war torn countries counter-intuitively increases the confidence of the people in the area. It makes people who were farther away from the blast or gunshots feel invincible. The small number who are near the explosion are obviously traumatized, yet those who are at a safe distance continue to gain confidence that bombs will continue to miss them and their families.

The U.S is so coddled that we rarely have those remote misses. So when something does happen, everyone goes into a frenzy because most people have never witnessed any violence in their lives outside of movies and television. Add in an overzealous media and you have the perfect storm every time adversity strikes.

Post: #80

Some people honored the victims by calling the police on a kid who made a clock.

I'm glad Obama invited him to the White House.

Post: #81

I was lifting weights (surprise surprise) in my home gym when my Grandma called from downstairs and told me to put the TV on.

I will never, ever forget the feeling of utter shock and despair watching the news that day from 10,000 miles away. Never before had people witnessed such a thing live on TV. The day cemented my love of America and Americans.

The World changed on 9/11. Only those who were adults before it can really understand.


I think that some (particularly the younger) members of this forum are so desperate to be "edgy" and "alpha" that they forget that human compassion and understanding are two of the tenets of masculinity.

Post: #82

(09-16-2015 10:56 AM)DarkTriad Wrote:  "Everything changed after 9/11" is the worst misunderstanding ever. The world had been a dangerous place with assholes that want to hurt us for a long time, 9/11 just revealed it to the clueless.

Wow!
Firstly the murder of over 3,000 civilians going about their business should always be remembered, their memories honoured and this attack never forgotten
For 14 years now there has been intense debate over who did it, how it was done and why

Some people like you believe this was a religious based terrorist attack carried out by dangerous fanatics and we should be scared and prepared...

What about the more intelligent of us who don't swallow the 'official' story, those of us that have enquiring minds, who see evidence that wasn’t explained in the NIST findings like
WT7 Collapse at free-fall acceleration
Claims of investigating a controlled demolition without testing for explosive residues
No discussion of the molten metal found in the rubble of the three collapsed buildings


Or lets consider flight 77 hitting the Pentagon
Why is the impact hol;e so small compared to a Boeing 757?
They were able to identify nearly all the passengers by DNA but there was no significant plane debris left because the fire destroyed its significant parts?
Or Mr Hani Hanjour neither being able to control or land a Cessna but he could overcome a 6’4 ex Marine combat fighter pilot with a box cutter took the controls and performed a 270 degree descending turn at 400 mph only to skim 20’ off the ground taking out light poles and expertly crashed it into the only part of the entire building that was being renovated and therefore relatively empty!
Unfortunately there is no footage of this unbelievable feat, the attack on one of the worlds most heavily secured buildings, not one shred of footage

I guess you would be happy now that the PATRIOT act has been shuffled in to ‘protect’ you AFTER 9/11, the thousands of soldiers and civilians killed, foreign lands invaded and the total silence the media shows by way of opposition to these atrocities SINCE 9/11

I have no idea who did it but the world has changed irrevocably since. In Australia for instance, our anti ‘terrorist laws’ affect our civil liberties and I think you will find most countries have adopted similar laws restricting the people’s freedom in the name of protecting us form dangerous people

But hey I’m clueless to think otherwise

Post: #83

I wasn't wanting to discuss conspiracy theories. But there are healthy and unhealthy ways of dealing with tragedy.

Four years ago, a woman my age was killed in a white-watering accident. Every day for several years, her live-in boy friend would post: "I love you." on her Facebook wall. This guy spent years wallowing in self-pity, feeling sorry for himself, and telling himself that he could never find anyone else. Guess what? He never has found anyone else. He still posts stuff on her wall.

When something bad happens, you need to express emotion whether it be anger, sadness, shock, or fear. But it is not healthy to do this forever. I know because I've done it with lesser things that have happened in my life.

Personally, I did know someone who was in there and got out alive. He often said that he only got out alive because he picked the right stairs.

When bad things happen, you have two choices:

1. Learn from it and move on.
2. Feel sorry for yourself and be a victim.

It's painfully obvious that many Americans chose #2. I'm not going to celebrate it, and I'm not going to support it because I live in this god-forsaken country as well.

Someday, I believe that historians will write that 9-11 was the beginning of the end of America. I see no evidence to disprove this.

Post: #84

The world DID change...for those who have the intelligence and discernment to understand, and to act and think accordingly.

"Nothing changed" is the expression of the ignorant.

Post: #85

Well, at least Devo had the right perspective....


http://consequenceofsound.net/2015/09/de...d-wedding/

Post: #86

(09-18-2015 07:18 PM)puckerman Wrote:  I see no evidence to disprove this.

The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence.

Post: #87

(09-18-2015 07:18 PM)puckerman Wrote:  I wasn't wanting to discuss conspiracy theories.....

I'm not either Puckerman, I'm discussing facts, everything I mentioned is easily observable and researchable fact, why did you jump to conclusions and label my comments as conspiracy theory?

Post: #88

I feel the say way about it as I did when I was younger (surprisingly, I was 7). The united States was and is still notorious for attacking other country's for vague reasons. Eventually, some country or organized group of people (like al queda)was going to get fed up and attack us. It's just karma

Post: #89

Building 7 was obviously wired for demolition. Anyone who looks at it objectively can see this, especially when you consider that the BBC news reported building 7 had collapsed about 25 minutes before it actually did. Someone messed up and they were given that script to read a little too early. Also, if building 7 was rigged then so were the twin towers.

Post: #90

Devo’s Jerry Casale Had A 9/11-Themed Wedding

Quote:Jerry Casale -- Devo's singer and bassist -- married Krista Napp on Friday at Michael's Restaurant in Santa Monica. Of course, Friday marked the 14th anniversary of the September 11th attacks ... a fact the bride and groom made sure their guests would never forget.
Fact 1: Their cake was the World Trade Center, with their images on top of each tower.
Fact 2: Guests got real box cutters as party favors.
Fact 3: Their table setting cards had an image of a "Gerald & Krista" engraved box cutter.

"I'd hate myself if I had that kind of attitude, if I were that weak." - Arnold

Post: #91

Nice repost.

Post: #92

(09-18-2015 05:43 AM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  I will never, ever forget the feeling of utter shock and despair watching the news that day from 10,000 miles away. Never before had people witnessed such a thing live on TV. The day cemented my love of America and Americans.

You felt "utter shock and despair" while watching planes fly into buildings? I was in high school at the time and all I felt (secretly) was excitement. This shit was unreal. But of course I could never say it in public as people would think I was crazy. The next day I got over it. Never understood all the hokey-dokey sentimentalism surrounding this event. I mean there's a goddamn gift shop at Ground Zero, I kid you not. What a joke.

Post: #93

(09-19-2015 05:58 PM)TigerMandingo Wrote:  You felt "utter shock and despair" while watching planes fly into buildings? I was in high school at the time and all I felt (secretly) was excitement. This shit was unreal. But of course I could never say it in public as people would think I was crazy. The next day I got over it. Never understood all the hokey-dokey sentimentalism surrounding this event. I mean there's a goddamn gift shop at Ground Zero, I kid you not. What a joke.

Post: #94

(09-19-2015 05:58 PM)TigerMandingo Wrote:  Never understood all the hokey-dokey sentimentalism surrounding this event.

Yeah, my dad felt just like that after Pearl Harbor. He was like, "Shit, so some fucking Japs blew up our fleet? BFD."

I'm down with it.

Post: #95

I was in the WTC after the 93 attack and felt that they would be back to take the buildings down. It was a complete failure of the CIA, NSA and the rest of the govt. That is why we should never forget. Our govt. is run by careerist idiots.

Post: #96

(09-18-2015 07:18 PM)puckerman Wrote:  Someday, I believe that historians will write that 9-11 was the beginning of the end of America. I see no evidence to disprove this.

America's peak was 1969 when they put a man on the moon. In 1973 real wages peaked also. Then the economy and culture declined, but there was a shoulder peak in the 1990s after the USSR imploded.

9/11, the failures in Afghanistan and Iraq, the 2008 financial crisis...all data points on the bumpy plateau headed downwards. At some point there is a cliff and after that America is just Brazil with nukes.

Post: #97

(09-19-2015 07:49 PM)RawGod Wrote:  

(09-18-2015 07:18 PM)puckerman Wrote:  Someday, I believe that historians will write that 9-11 was the beginning of the end of America. I see no evidence to disprove this.

America's peak was 1969 when they put a man on the moon. In 1973 real wages peaked also. Then the economy and culture declined, but there was a shoulder peak in the 1990s after the USSR imploded.

9/11, the failures in Afghanistan and Iraq, the 2008 financial crisis...all data points on the bumpy plateau headed downwards. At some point there is a cliff and after that America is just Brazil with nukes.

The US is due to collapse within our lifetimes based on The Fate of Empires. I read it a few weeks ago from a link posted on another thread. Empires last roughly 10 generations and we are on the tail end. I wish we were the exception but from looking at history, I highly doubt it.

http://www.newworldeconomics.com/archive...nGlubb.pdf

The main problem with 9/11 is that it has been too politicized. Whether or not you believe the official story, it allowed the Patriot Act and NSA to take control. Anyone who questions it is labeled a "truther" which means nothing as an insult.

I haven't researched enough to draw a conclusion and will save that for the other 9/11 thread when I have an answer.

But otherwise exceptional posters whom I greatly respect on the forum have been using the same rhetoric the media uses every September. "9/11 changed the world and if you don't talk about how badly you were traumatized, you're a heartless bastard. How can you not have compassion?"

I've reiterated it in my posts; I truly sympathize with the victims and I'm not trying to diminish the severity of the event. But for God's sake, if someone doesn't immediately talk about how badly they were affected 14 years later, they aren't "immature" and pretend "alpha's" trying to be "edgy". They are normal people going about their lives.

This thread was started because the OP was sick of hearing the "never forget' speeches through every media channel. How many years will 9/11 continue to be profitable for every radio and tv station? I would assume at least another decade based on some of the responses to this thread.

Post: #98

(09-19-2015 05:58 PM)TigerMandingo Wrote:  

(09-18-2015 05:43 AM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  I will never, ever forget the feeling of utter shock and despair watching the news that day from 10,000 miles away. Never before had people witnessed such a thing live on TV. The day cemented my love of America and Americans.

You felt "utter shock and despair" while watching planes fly into buildings? I was in high school at the time and all I felt (secretly) was excitement. This shit was unreal. But of course I could never say it in public as people would think I was crazy. The next day I got over it. Never understood all the hokey-dokey sentimentalism surrounding this event. I mean there's a goddamn gift shop at Ground Zero, I kid you not. What a joke.

I normally enjoy your posts, but if you really felt excitement at seeing thousands of people die needlessly in real time then as far as I'm concerned there is something seriously wrong with you Sir.

That's just not normal.

Post: #99

3/6/1836 never forget. the alamo is so underrated nowdays

Post: #100

(09-20-2015 03:58 AM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  I normally enjoy your posts, but if you really felt excitement at seeing thousands of people die needlessly in real time then as far as I'm concerned there is something seriously wrong with you Sir.

That's just not normal.

There is something exciting and highly entertaining in watching a tragedy unfold, in this case in REAL time. It also why the Euro migrant thread is already 80 pages long. We humans, even though we may not ever admit it, are fascinated by these sorts of occasional catastrophes that malign our species.

I know it goes against the traditional thought process of "tragedy = endless mourning". I don't believe people who say they are "shocked" and feel "utter despair" at such things.