Post: #1

I bought into the PUA movement around 5 years ago. It took me about a year or two to realise that, while there were definitely lessons (particularly on building an attractive lifestyle and developing self-confidence) between the lines, there were too many BS lines to pick through. All these books seemed to focus around improving yourself for the sole purpose of impressing women and never yourself. They would then continue to overload your brain with useless acronyms and routines and blah blah blah.

Anyway, it wasn't long before I stopped reading so much theory and started working full time on practicality.

Now; I am young, even the 'young' people on here would consider me very young. I could ramble on about old souls and experienced minds and whatever but that's not what I'm getting at.

The thing that irks me in day to day life is that people consistently blow off my opinions and lessons just because of my age. While I do understand why (experience is truly the best teacher, and age definitely does guarantee experience), I must also point out one idea:

Man A who lives his life in essential 'autopilot' may experience in 40 years what Man B, who's truly seized the day and lived his life to the fullest, experiences in 20. While simply being alive for such a long time has guaranteed Man A a vast amount of experience without him consciously looking for it, Man B has put huge amounts of conscious energy into having these same experiences and thus the value of his beliefs should not be understated.

I am 100% sure that everyone in the world can learn something from everyone in the world. Even if it's not through direct statements of their beliefs, simply observing the way a person carries themselves through the world can be enough to draw conclusions which will benefit you. I was told from very young that if there is one thing I should never forget... I should never forget to PAY ATTENTION. And that's what I do.

Why is it that so many of my supposed elders are so quick to pass us youngers off as useless and inexperienced? Is it, at that age, truly a safe generalization to make? Are there so many people my age who are truly ignorant/inexperienced that it's worth typecasting all of us the same way?

Post: #2

(07-13-2015 02:39 PM)Sweeterman Wrote:  Why is it that so many of my supposed elders are so quick to pass us youngers off as useless and inexperienced? Is it, at that age, truly a safe generalization to make? Are there so many people my age who are truly ignorant/inexperienced that it's worth typecasting all of us the same way?

Edit: re-read your post, and the answer to the above is "yes" - way too many Millennials & younger people in the US think they know far more than they actually do, and seem to think (for no good reason) that they are empowered to do jobs and hold positions that people with much more experience have. They also seem to be some of the least informed generation out there, have poor social skills, and think that the world owes them something.

What's worse is that they are taught by progressives and the far left that they know better, and their elders "just don't get it" and also that most of the ways of the past are no longer relevant or how things should be. See the Year Zero thread posts.

But this has also always been the case to some extent, it's just more amplified now given how unaware and coddled most Americans are in general these days + the massive propaganda machine that is Feminism & "Progressivism".

However, you seem to be doing the right things and learning as much as you can and putting your experiences to good use, so you are a bit of an exception. Keep it up!

Post: #3

By your writing, you're clearly an intelligent enough youngster.

But the fact that you thought this post was a good or useful idea as post #4, or even at all, is very revealing of your age and naivete. There may be some truths in it, but it is laced with a youthful arrogance that begs to be (and I assure you will be) picked on. Nor will it win you many friends.

Verdict: you may not be as wise as you think you are, and the fact that your blinders are on to this when it may be clear to quite a few others is one of the major stumbling blocks for young people who want to be taken more seriously by their elders.

I can relate as I was an intelligent, deep, and bullheaded kid who got a bit ahead of himself too. But given that you're new to the forum and want to hang out for a while, I caution you about chasing this line of discussion to its inevitable conclusion in this particular thread. People are going to come in and troll you here, and it's important you just consider it a lesson learned.

Simmer down, hang out for a while. You might realize there's much yet for you to soak in. Certainly not from everyone here but enough to make it worth your while to be humble.

EDIT:

A couple books you might want to look at include 48 Laws of Power and How to Win Friends and Influence People.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #4

I see good things in the future for you on this board.

Post: #5

(07-13-2015 02:42 PM)Akula Wrote:  

(07-13-2015 02:39 PM)Sweeterman Wrote:  Why is it that so many of my supposed elders are so quick to pass us youngers off as useless and inexperienced? Is it, at that age, truly a safe generalization to make? Are there so many people my age who are truly ignorant/inexperienced that it's worth typecasting all of us the same way?

Edit: re-read your post, and the answer to the above is "yes" - way too many Millennials & younger people in the US think they know far more than they actually do, and seem to think they are empowered to do jobs and hold positions that people with much more experience have for no good reason. They also seem to be some of the least informed generation out there, have poor social skills, and think that the world owes them something.

What's worse is that they are taught by progressives and the far left that they know better, and their elders "just don't get it" and also that most of the ways of the past are no longer relevant or how things should be. See the Year Zero thread posts.

However, you seem to be doing the right things and learning as much as you can and putting your experiences to good use, so you are a bit of an exception. Keep it up!

I completely understand that, unfortunately.

I do not get along with a huge majority of people my own age for this very reason. The whole conceited, black or white, "my way or the high fucking way" mindset makes me sick. I suppose not everyone in the millennial bracket can be big on understanding things outside the scope of their immediate reality, but when people have no interest whatsoever in becoming more cultured, more learned, more experienced, it's hard not to question exactly what the 'progressive' movement really stands for.

Someone get de Montaigne in here...

Post: #6

(07-13-2015 02:54 PM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  By your writing, you're clearly an intelligent enough youngster.

But the fact that you thought this post was a good or useful idea as post #4, or even at all, is very revealing of your age and naivete. There may be some truths in it, but it is laced with a youthful arrogance that begs to be (and I assure you will be) picked on. Nor will it win you many friends.

Verdict: you may not be as wise as you think you are, and the fact that your blinders are on to this when it may be clear to quite a few others is one of the major stumbling blocks for young people who want to be taken more seriously by their elders.

I can relate as I was an intelligent, deep, and bullheaded kid who got a bit ahead of himself too. But given that you're new to the forum and want to hang out for a while, I caution you about chasing this line of discussion to its inevitable conclusion in this particular thread. People are going to come in and troll you here, and it's important you just consider it a lesson learned.

Simmer down, hang out for a while. You might realize there's much yet for you to soak in. Certainly not from everyone here but enough to make it worth your while to be humble.

EDIT:

A couple books you might want to look at include 48 Laws of Power and How to Win Friends and Influence People.

I could counter that you're presuming me to be exactly the type of "naive, bullheaded kid" that older generations stereotype us all as. My "youthful arrogance" comes across only as a natural response to this exact type of generalizing.

You are right. I may not be as wise as I think I am. It would be childish for me to assume anything else.

I did not make this topic with the intention of it being a good or useful idea. I made this topic only to stimulate discussion on something that I personally feel strongly about, and wanted community input on. As a more experienced RVF'er than me, if there was somewhere else I should have taken this, please tell me where it is

Please do not insult my intelligence though. These are pop culture books which I had written summaries and essays on while I was in secondary school. Do not make assumptions of my character based on pretension. You may not have had the initiative to read such literature while you were my age (an age which I have not stated, and you therefore cannot know) but does not mean I did not or have not. I am currently reading books far, far more comprehensive on far more specific topics, which I will name for you if you so desire.

I welcome those who would come and troll me! I did not make this post in error and I can back up any of my points beyond what you are under the impression I am able to. I am always open to debate, no matter the tone others may take with me.

EDIT: If I had, say, made this same post, mentioning the same points I have but had decided not to mention my age or relate it personally to myself, would your response have been different? Have a think my friend.

Post: #7

You're trying too hard in the kind of wrong way.

You care too much about what others think.

With your success you should be ignoring these foolish elders altogether then.

Post: #8

(07-13-2015 03:24 PM)Travesty444 Wrote:  You're trying too hard in the kind of wrong way.

You care too much about what others think.

Not true. Because something is apparent to me (and worth questioning) does not mean that I'm mentally hung up on it. I care only for the sake of better understanding other people's perspectives.

Post: #9

If you boil it down and we take you seriously, you are questioning why idiots and losers don't listen to you.

Ok, now what?

Post: #10

No, I do not so desire.

Your post says everything that needs to be said...though probably not in the ways you assume. I was trying to help save you from yourself (as far as this forum goes), but I can see you're set on learning the hard way.

If I were you I'd reread my well-intentioned, if blunt, post and then spend some time browsing the forum before posting much more.

I'd also reread those books if I were you.

I don't have much more energy for the line of dialogue than that, to be honest.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #11

(07-13-2015 03:27 PM)Travesty444 Wrote:  If you boil it down and we take you seriously, you are questioning why idiots and losers don't listen to you.

Ok, now what?

The point you could have made, in answer to my question, is that these people are idiots and losers. How could I have known your opinion without you stating it? Although it is certainly a valid point.

(07-13-2015 03:28 PM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  No, I do not so desire.

Your post says everything that needs to be said...though probably not in the ways you assume. I did my best to save you from yourself, but I can see you're set on learning the hard way.

If I were you I'd reread my well-intentioned post and then spend some time browsing the forum before posting much more.

I'd also reread those books.

You are getting very condescending very quickly. I did not insult you or infer that your post was not well-intentioned.

If I had made points about listening to the younger generation without mentioning that I myself am part of this generation, I am 90% sure you would have replied differently. You were pretexted into seeing my words as stemming from "youthful arrogance" which is exactly what I am talking about in my original post, simply under different context. Surely you are perceptive enough to see this.

Rather than the intelligent on-topic debate which I would be very welcoming towards, with my age in mind, you stating your opinions has been reduced to condescension. This is why I generally do not mention my age on public forums.

Post: #12

I'm surely perceptive enough to see quite a lot more than that, actually.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #13

Post: #14

(07-13-2015 02:39 PM)Sweeterman Wrote:  I bought into the PUA movement around 5 years ago. It took me about a year or two to realise that, while there were definitely lessons (particularly on building an attractive lifestyle and developing self-confidence) between the lines, there were too many BS lines to pick through. All these books seemed to focus around improving yourself for the sole purpose of impressing women and never yourself. They would then continue to overload your brain with useless acronyms and routines and blah blah blah.

Anyway, it wasn't long before I stopped reading so much theory and started working full time on practicality.

Now; I am young, even the 'young' people on here would consider me very young. I could ramble on about old souls and experienced minds and whatever but that's not what I'm getting at.

The thing that irks me in day to day life is that people consistently blow off my opinions and lessons just because of my age. While I do understand why (experience is truly the best teacher, and age definitely does guarantee experience), I must also point out one idea:

Man A who lives his life in essential 'autopilot' may experience in 40 years what Man B, who's truly seized the day and lived his life to the fullest, experiences in 20. While simply being alive for such a long time has guaranteed Man A a vast amount of experience without him consciously looking for it, Man B has put huge amounts of conscious energy into having these same experiences and thus the value of his beliefs should not be understated.

I am 100% sure that everyone in the world can learn something from everyone in the world. Even if it's not through direct statements of their beliefs, simply observing the way a person carries themselves through the world can be enough to draw conclusions which will benefit you. I was told from very young that if there is one thing I should never forget... I should never forget to PAY ATTENTION. And that's what I do.

Why is it that so many of my supposed elders are so quick to pass us youngers off as useless and inexperienced? Is it, at that age, truly a safe generalization to make? Are there so many people my age who are truly ignorant/inexperienced that it's worth typecasting all of us the same way?

You seem too young to have held down a full time career (job or self employed/entrepreneur). Therefore whatever you think you know about life is likely through a pair of tinted glasses. A man earns his own way; getting poon can be easy. Making an honest living to support oneself/family and thrive can be the toughest thing ever.

Post: #15

(07-13-2015 03:37 PM)Mother Russia Wrote:  

(07-13-2015 02:39 PM)Sweeterman Wrote:  I bought into the PUA movement around 5 years ago. It took me about a year or two to realise that, while there were definitely lessons (particularly on building an attractive lifestyle and developing self-confidence) between the lines, there were too many BS lines to pick through. All these books seemed to focus around improving yourself for the sole purpose of impressing women and never yourself. They would then continue to overload your brain with useless acronyms and routines and blah blah blah.

Anyway, it wasn't long before I stopped reading so much theory and started working full time on practicality.

Now; I am young, even the 'young' people on here would consider me very young. I could ramble on about old souls and experienced minds and whatever but that's not what I'm getting at.

The thing that irks me in day to day life is that people consistently blow off my opinions and lessons just because of my age. While I do understand why (experience is truly the best teacher, and age definitely does guarantee experience), I must also point out one idea:

Man A who lives his life in essential 'autopilot' may experience in 40 years what Man B, who's truly seized the day and lived his life to the fullest, experiences in 20. While simply being alive for such a long time has guaranteed Man A a vast amount of experience without him consciously looking for it, Man B has put huge amounts of conscious energy into having these same experiences and thus the value of his beliefs should not be understated.

I am 100% sure that everyone in the world can learn something from everyone in the world. Even if it's not through direct statements of their beliefs, simply observing the way a person carries themselves through the world can be enough to draw conclusions which will benefit you. I was told from very young that if there is one thing I should never forget... I should never forget to PAY ATTENTION. And that's what I do.

Why is it that so many of my supposed elders are so quick to pass us youngers off as useless and inexperienced? Is it, at that age, truly a safe generalization to make? Are there so many people my age who are truly ignorant/inexperienced that it's worth typecasting all of us the same way?

You seem too young to have held down a full time career (job or self employed/entrepreneur). Therefore whatever you think you know about life is likely through a pair of tinted glasses. A man earns his own way; getting poon can be easy. Making an honest living to support oneself/family and thrive can be the toughest thing ever.

I am an editor for a popular business magazine in my country, and I work part-time in the renewable energy sector as well as managing my blog when I feel inclined to write on a more personal level. I have flown, backpacked, and sailed through various parts of the world with money I've made 100% through my own means and efforts.

In mentioning game, I was greatly narrowing down a much broader topic. I didn't know my thread would be brought off topic so quickly, although I can't say I don't enjoy it

Post: #16

(07-13-2015 03:34 PM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  I'm surely perceptive enough to see quite a lot more than that, actually.

Glad to hear it!

(07-13-2015 03:35 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  

Yes, you most certainly can

Post: #17

(07-13-2015 03:18 PM)Sweeterman Wrote:  Please do not insult my intelligence though. These are pop culture books which I had written summaries and essays on while I was in secondary school. Do not make assumptions of my character based on pretension. You may not have had the initiative to read such literature while you were my age (an age which I have not stated, and you therefore cannot know) but does not mean I did not or have not. I am currently reading books far, far more comprehensive on far more specific topics, which I will name for you if you so desire.

   

Post: #18

This kid...
Jesus.
Well I guess this is one way to learn.
And respect for choosing the hard way in here.
When you reread your post after 20+ years "in the game" you'll shake your head at your own bravado&naivete.
Good luck mate.

Post: #19

(07-13-2015 03:56 PM)MrXY Wrote:  

(07-13-2015 03:18 PM)Sweeterman Wrote:  Please do not insult my intelligence though. These are pop culture books which I had written summaries and essays on while I was in secondary school. Do not make assumptions of my character based on pretension. You may not have had the initiative to read such literature while you were my age (an age which I have not stated, and you therefore cannot know) but does not mean I did not or have not. I am currently reading books far, far more comprehensive on far more specific topics, which I will name for you if you so desire.

Lol, sigh... The issue with making statements online is that everything you say seems like you're trying to big yourself up or boast. Not my intentions at all sir.

(07-13-2015 04:00 PM)Tailgunner Wrote:  This kid...
Jesus.
Well I guess this is one way to learn.
And respect for choosing the hard way in here.
When you reread your post after 20+ years "in the game" you'll shake your head at your own bravado&naivete.
Good luck mate.

What?

Maybe so. I'm not sure what is giving you the impression that I am full of bravado or naivete, though.

Post: #20

Why do you believe that game ability scales linearly (or generally increases) with age? Most men are blind in this respect, whether they have money, age, or whatever. I don't think there is anything particularly amazing about a young guy being good at game, or being better than men that are older than him.

The real question to ask yourself is why do you care what people, who you consider losers, think? ("The thing that irks me in day to day life is that people consistently blow off my opinions and lessons just because of my age"). Also, you assume it's because of your age, but maybe they don't like how you state your opinions. Maybe they think you're an asshole, or annoying, or whatever.

P.S. Little Dark 2: Electric Boogaloo?

Post: #21

(07-13-2015 04:05 PM)Menace Wrote:  Why do you believe that game ability scales linearly (or generally increases) with age? Most men are blind in this respect, whether they have money, age, or whatever. I don't think there is anything particularly amazing about a young guy being good at game, or being better than men that are older than him.

The real question to ask yourself is why do you care what people, who you consider losers, think? ("The thing that irks me in day to day life is that people consistently blow off my opinions and lessons just because of my age"). Also, you assume it's because of your age, but maybe they don't like how you state your opinions. Maybe they think you're an asshole, or annoying, or whatever.

Thank you for the reasonable response.

I don't consider people losers. The inference to these people being losers was made by someone else who replied earlier, I said he makes a valid point but his point being valid doesn't make it my own.

I can assure you, social experiments upon social experiments have proven that when someone believes themselves to be more experienced (better) than another person, they will instantly put less weight on what that person has to say. The back and forth I was having with Beyond Borders became negative so quickly because after hearing that I am young, he no longer felt the need to counter my points but felt it sufficient to simply insult me.

If I had made an argument for the younger generation without expressly stating that I am part of it, we could have had a decent debate. But due to the pretense of me being youthfully arrogant or bullheaded or such, my opinions were blown out of the water before they were given any consideration at all. Such is the way of the world, and again, what happened here is directly related to my original post.

Oh God, a Little Dark comparison... Shoulda seen it coming

Post: #22

What is interesting about people in general is that many when presented thoughts that they may not agree with, double down. They back up into their beliefs even more, into the bubble. Like that girl who fucked two guys for rodeo tickets or whatever, then she just went for it all, rather than just shutting up and trying to "ride" it out. Few, ever say, let me reconsider my thoughts given new evidence, it is possible I may not be fully informed. It is those who can take feedback and grow from it that unlock deeper levels of meaning in life.

OP, you are getting a little teasing and rather than just understanding this is what happens when new guys pop up and start posting some "interesting" thoughts, you want to tell us how we are wrong and how, in a way, you are better.

I don't necessarily know if that is most advisable way to make your entry into a community. Listing your CV of life experiences is very oh so fascinating, yawn.

Just ease into the community, comment on a few threads with either something thoughtful or something funny. Eventually guys will buy into you if you earn it. You seem to want to come in here and demand respect. How do you (OP) expect to get respect when you (OP) storm in here demanding it and by doing so you are not giving us any respect? Where did you learn that nonsense? There is a code among men, either you get it or you don't.

Like most new posters, I imagine you may have lurked for a while, maybe not. Assuming you lurked a bit, did you not learn by observing?

Edit1: there are a lot of young dudes that show up and get blown out. But I also know there are some young guys that have their shit together. But, based on experience, they are a small percentage. And they rarely seem to make a big baller entrance on RVF.

Edit2: An unsolicited piece of advice. Since you mentioned you are so young. Never adopt a victim mentality. If you are a worldbeater as you seem to present, then you can never claim to be victim. So in these series of posts on this thread, you cannot ever claim that people are picking on you or victimizing you. Since you are the one that chose to start this thread. If that doesn't make sense to you, well then you may not be as amazing as you seem to present. My comment is not meant to be prickish, it is meant to make a fundamental point. A principle, that I have observed, that is the foundation of truly great men.

Post: #23

(07-13-2015 04:19 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  What is interesting about people in general is that many when presented thoughts that they may not agree with, double down. They back up into their beliefs even more, into the bubble. Like that girl who fucked two guys for rodeo tickets or whatever, then she just went for it all, rather than just shutting up and trying to "ride" it out. Few, ever say, let me reconsider my thoughts given new evidence, it is possible I may not be fully informed. It is those who can take feedback and grow from it that unlock deeper levels of meaning in life.

OP, you are getting a little teasing and rather than just understanding this is what happens when new guys pop up and start posting some "interesting" thoughts, you want to tell us how we are wrong and how, in a way, you are better.

I don't necessarily know if that is most advisable way to make your entry into a community. Listing your CV of life experiences is very oh so fascinating, yawn.

Just ease into the community, comment on a few threads with either something thoughtful or something funny. Eventually guys will buy into you if you earn it. You seem to want to come in here and demand respect. How do you (OP) expect to get respect when you (OP) storm in here demanding it and by doing so you are not giving us any respect? Where did you learn that nonsense? There is a code among men, either you get it or you don't.

Like most new posters, I imagine you may have lurked for a while, maybe not. Assuming you lurked a bit, did you not learn by observing?

Edit: there are a lot of young dudes that show up and get blown out. But I also know there are some young guys that have their shit together. But, based on experience, they are a small percentage. And they rarely seem to make a big baller entrance on RVF.

Big baller entrance? I was not aware that for me to form a topic (for the sake of provoking discussion), I had to already be a well-respected member of RVF.

I did not, at any point, list a CV of life experiences. I was told it seems like I have not ever held a full time job so I countered that point with fact. It did not exceed a sentence or two.

I also believe you are taking many of my thoughts out of context. One of the first things I said in my original reply to BB was that he may well be right and it would be childish for me to assume otherwise, but he was misinformed about a few aspects of me (based on this same generalization, mind you) which I countered.

I don't mind the teasing, really! I plan on being here for quite a while, giving out all I can contribute and taking in all I can learn.

Although I clearly don't have thousands of posts, this thread was not made with my reputation in mind. I had a thought and wanted external input on it, which I got and am continuing to get.

I'm not upset or displeased in any way lol! Sorry if it's come across like that.

Edit: What?! When did I ever claim to be a victim? No one is victimizing me or "picking on" me.

Post: #24

I think a lot of young people aren't game aware because they often don't really need it. Your schooling comes with a social circle with the best ratios you are likely to ever have, you aren't a total stranger to most of the girls you will meet until you are out of college. People in general don't expect much out of you except to be decent looking and ambitious, nobody really cares what your position is and you can change your status as you like without years of commitment. Assuming one doesn't get horribly out of shape, the whole self-improvement quest doesn't start becoming necessary until you are out on your own. You should milk the shit out of that while you can, don't lock yourself into an LTR through college like I did.

Post: #25

I'll give you a shot.

Tell us something original about game that you've learned that we don't already know.