Post: #26

Unrelated but this picture always makes me hungry

Post: #27

(07-09-2015 01:22 PM)Slim Shady Wrote:  The suffering of animals is real.

Bullshit.

Have you actually visited a farm? I work in operations for one of the biggest meat producing and processing company in the world. Not sure for other meats like poultry, but the beef and veal markets are extremely regulated in Canada and Europe, animal welfare is a top priority.

Post: #28

(07-09-2015 01:22 PM)Slim Shady Wrote:  

(07-09-2015 12:29 PM)sixsix Wrote:  

(07-08-2015 09:38 PM)Slim Shady Wrote:  I actually agree that civilized domesticated men should opt for a vegetarian diet in the modern world.

Fixed that for you.

I understand that this is a joke, and I expected even more ragging for my comments for being a pussy or w/e.

However understand that the greatest position of power is the ability to be merciful. It is when you have total power, total ability to end someone's life, or cause them suffering, and choose not to do so - that is real power.

Eat meat when you are thrown in a jungle or a post apocalyptic scenario. That is when you need it. But understand that with "need" comes a loss of power. When you need something, you are weakened, and not in total control.

I have never suffered due to my diet. As an athlete I was kicking the meat eating kids asses. You just have to put in more effort and do more research so that you get all of the required nutrients. It is little to sacrifice for the power of mercy.

PETA and Change.org might be a bunch of loonies but the truth is that animal cruelty is unforgivable in my book. It is like torturing a helpless baby or a mentally disabled person. What sick pleasure do you derive from that? Just to look cool and be a tough man? That's a lot of meaningless posturing.

The suffering of animals is real.

So eating meat makes you weak? Get the fuck outta here. You sound like all those other self-righteous anti-meat hippies who feels the need to qualify that they are healthy and able-bodied despite having a deliberately alternative diet just to justify their moral high-ground.

Your straw man argument against eating meat is laughable here. By your logic, having the "need" to eat non-meat makes you weak too. You're weak because you need lentils beans, nuts, and maybe even man-made supplements to make up for your lack of protein, amino acids, B vitamins, and iron that you could get from eating a pork chop once in a while. If you are morally against killing animals then whatever thats your thing, but don't go around saying people are "weak" because you have a soft spot for cows. Humans have been killing animals for their own prosperity since the dawn of time.

Post: #29

(07-09-2015 12:22 PM)Tokyo Joe Wrote:  The back-and-forth here over grass- vs. corn-fed is starting to generate enough heat to grill a burger.
This thread is moving in the direction I was hoping for

Anyway, I think we all know damn well what the most important diet staple of the world's finest cow is --

Interesting Article:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/larryolmsted...be-beef-2/

Post: #30

I had to make the counterpoint about weakness only because it is accepted for some reason that being vegetarian makes you a "domesticated pussy hipster faggot".

I absolutely hate taking the moral high ground, and have never talked about this kind of thing on the forum before. I just wished to offer the contrarian view because no-one on the forum ever does with this issue.

Humans have indeed been killing since the dawn of man. I am saying that there is no need to do so anymore. What is the need? If you can save a lot of suffering in the world with very little effort on your part why not do it?

I had to make the weakness point because of the meat eating tough guy image. You don't have to eat meat to be a tough guy.

Eating meat doesn't make you weak. Eating meat to look tough, and saying that you have to eat meat to be tough makes you weak.

Post: #31

(07-09-2015 01:22 PM)Slim Shady Wrote:  

(07-09-2015 12:29 PM)sixsix Wrote:  

(07-08-2015 09:38 PM)Slim Shady Wrote:  I actually agree that civilized domesticated men should opt for a vegetarian diet in the modern world.

Fixed that for you.

I understand that this is a joke, and I expected even more ragging for my comments for being a pussy or w/e.

However understand that the greatest position of power is the ability to be merciful. It is when you have total power, total ability to end someone's life, or cause them suffering, and choose not to do so - that is real power.

Eat meat when you are thrown in a jungle or a post apocalyptic scenario. That is when you need it. But understand that with "need" comes a loss of power. When you need something, you are weakened, and not in total control.

I have never suffered due to my diet. As an athlete I was kicking the meat eating kids asses. You just have to put in more effort and do more research so that you get all of the required nutrients. It is little to sacrifice for the power of mercy.

PETA and Change.org might be a bunch of loonies but the truth is that animal cruelty is unforgivable in my book. It is like torturing a helpless baby or a mentally disabled person. What sick pleasure do you derive from that? Just to look cool and be a tough man? That's a lot of meaningless posturing.

The suffering of animals is real.

Wow, just wow. I literally can't. Please include a trigger warning next time you decide to post about animal cruelty.



I love how you say that PETA is insane, but animal cruelty is NOT OK GUISE!! But you really outdid yourself with the "like torturing a baby" line...


Do you not see the similarities between your arguing tactics and that of SJW's? It's called a false equivalency. That and your appeal to emotion (a bad one at that) which is a very leftist tactic by the way.

Post: #32

(07-09-2015 02:19 PM)Slim Shady Wrote:  I had to make the counterpoint about weakness only because it is accepted for some reason that being vegetarian makes you a "domesticated pussy hipster faggot".

I absolutely hate taking the moral high ground, and have never talked about this kind of thing on the forum before. I just wished to offer the contrarian view because no-one on the forum ever does with this issue.

Humans have indeed been killing since the dawn of man. I am saying that there is no need to do so anymore. What is the need? If you can save a lot of suffering in the world with very little effort on your part why not do it?

I had to make the weakness point because of the meat eating tough guy image. You don't have to eat meat to be a tough guy. Eating meat doesn't make you weak. Eating meat to look tough, and saying that you have to eat meat to be tough make you weak.

Still not buying this. I get if you don't agree with killing animals then fine. That is your personal moral stance and I won't tread on that, but making up some BS argument because you think you need to appeal to people who apparently see eating meat as making them "tough" is silly and demeaning.

C'mon this is RVF, not a middle school classroom. You are effectively saying you are "dumbing down" your argument into terms you think are relatable to the people reading this thread. We aren't a bunch of meatheaded simpletons thinking "you're not alpha unless you eat a bloody steak once a week." No one is gonna hate on you because you're a vegetarian. Some pretty badass folks out there are hard as fuck without eating any meat. e.g.





You don't like killing animals simple as that. No need to shoot down people who do.

Post: #33

(07-09-2015 02:31 PM)Red_Pillage Wrote:  Wow, just wow. I literally can't. Please include a trigger warning next time you decide to post about animal cruelty.



I love how you say that PETA is insane, but animal cruelty is NOT OK GUISE!! But you really outdid yourself with the "like torturing a baby" line...


Do you not see the similarities between your arguing tactics and that of SJW's? It's called a false equivalency. That and your appeal to emotion (a bad one at that) which is a very leftist tactic by the way.

There is no similarity between me and SJW's because I live exactly what I preach.

I wish I could make this argument without including any pathos...although pathos does play a major part in this for some.

Ignore the pathos and listen to the logos. There is no need for it.

Torturing the baby in the sense that both are helpless creatures that you lord over and they can not retaliate. I don't see the false equivalency.

I really hate having a moral debate, or even a debate that seems moral.

I will not be posting in this thread anymore. Looks like I have ruffled a hornet's nest...or dare I say, slaughtered a sacred cow?

Post: #34

(07-09-2015 09:32 AM)Slim Shady Wrote:  There is an ethical reason not to eat meat.

No there isn't, thats a silly thing to say.

Its a personal choice, if you don't want to for whatever reason then thats cool. But to make it about ethics is laughable.

Post: #35

Meh, I just skip out on beef, I rarely eat it, I eat fish, veggies, fruit, ground turkey, and chicken.

Throw in a cheat meal here and there, brown rice, and isolate whey protein, it's all good !

Post: #36

(07-09-2015 01:22 PM)Slim Shady Wrote:  PETA and Change.org might be a bunch of loonies but the truth is that animal cruelty is unforgivable in my book. It is like torturing a helpless baby or a mentally disabled person. What sick pleasure do you derive from that? Just to look cool and be a tough man? That's a lot of meaningless posturing.

The suffering of animals is real.

Eating meat does not translate to animal suffering.

Factory farming, on the other hand, is a different story. Factory farmed pigs absolutely do suffer, and I would love to see some reform here. However I'm not a fan of government stepping in and being the source of this reform. I wouldn't count on consumers demanding reform either if it means bacon prices doubling.

The fact is, we need a massive overhaul of our food production system in the U.S. It's way too centralized and regulated. There's this erroneous notion that grassfed or pastured animals MUST be more expensive. They are only more expensive than conventionally raised animals because we are still operating in a centralized food production system.

We talk a lot about bringing manufacturing jobs back to the U.S. I would love to see a politician talk about farming and jumpstarting the entire industry to focus on local product and competition. Produce like avocados and figs are seen as expensive luxury items. I've seen avocados go from $1 to $2 PER AVOCADO, when I've lived in places in California like Ojai where this shit just falls on the side of the road and rots. Why is it so expensive? Labor, processing, and transportation. I'm pretty goddamn sure avocados don't just grow in Southern California, so rather than offer incentives and subsidies for corporate agri-business, those incentives should be allocated towards startup farms, young guys coming out of ag school at UC Davis.

The same goes for livestock production. The knowledge is out there, you've got mavericks like Joel Salatin at Polyface Farms, teaching the next generation of ranchers how to run a sustainable and healthy pasture, but this is seen as a niche market rather than the mainstream. People like him have fought an uphill battle against the USDA when these are the people we should be rewarding and giving them the keys to create agricultural standards.

I actually prefer the taste of grassfed beef. It may not be as tender, and it overcooks easily, but the flavor and health benefits far outweigh grain fed beef.

The USDA hates small farmers.

Post: #37

Has anybody seen people slaughter hogs or cows?

It is pretty sad when you see the pig literally yelling for its life while someone is trying to cute its throat. But then again I love my pork-chops and sausage.

Post: #38

(07-09-2015 02:50 PM)MidWest Wrote:  Has anybody seen people slaughter hogs or cows?

It is pretty sad when you see the pig literally yelling for its life while someone is trying to cute its throat. But then again I love my pork-chops and sausage.

Everytime I've seen a "humane" slaughtering its usually just a bullet or spear right to the head. Kills them instantly and painlessly.

Post: #39

^^ Same, I've attended both a pig and cow slaughter. The pig one was tough but the cow just took a bullet and collapsed. These were at small farms, not in a factory.

Post: #40

(07-09-2015 02:50 PM)MidWest Wrote:  Has anybody seen people slaughter hogs or cows?

It is pretty sad when you see the pig literally yelling for its life while someone is trying to cute its throat. But then again I love my pork-chops and sausage.

Its been happening for thousands of years, and if you were born 150+ years ago you'd likely have been taught to do it yourself.

Post: #41

Surprised noone posted this yet.

Honestly, you should be comfortable with the face you know how an animal gets slaughtered all the way to your dinner table.

I'm fine with going out and killing an animal to eat it.

Post: #42

No need to argue here really. Both sides are right to a degree.

Animal cruelty is in our current high-tech state unnecessary. We have already technologies which could let animals fall asleep through gas, chemicals or even sound-wave technology. They would fall asleep and not even witness their death. As far as mass holdings and foremost the terrible state that chickens or pigs find themselves - yes that is mass cruelty to the x-degree except for some organic and small farms.

As far as eating meat goes - in most areas and times of human history there was no choice. During WWI many young recruits grew some 3 inches on average because they tasted meat for the first time on a regular basis. When you are starved of essential nutrients and fats, because you don't have avocados, healthy fats and the like during winter and crucial development phases, then you may grow to be dumber and shorter.

That said - there is also some truth to the fact, that meat is rather problematic for us humans. For example all alternative diet therapies in terms of cancer abolish completely milk products and all meats for a time and replace it all with a raw vegan diet. The ingestion of meat is problematic for humans.

Plus there are other indicators that show that we humans seem to be better suited to vegan diets:



Personally I am not completely set yet on what is the best human diet. I would not recommend the elimination of meat as of yet. The elite actually wants it and the UN has written about it. But don't think that you are to get high quality vegan food - it will be more likely frozen beans and potatoes - all soaked with pesticides. That is no improvement.

Our technological state could already create a wonderful environment for animals where they would have a great life and a painless death and it would be better if meat was 2-3 times more expensive, but just much more nutritious and healthy at the same time. That way it would be a win-win except for the psychopathic feedlot-operators, which should be banned anyway for many reasons.

Post: #43

(07-09-2015 12:52 AM)Suits Wrote:  That guy has no idea how to cook a burger. There is no mention of adding salt and pepper. He clearly forgot to season the burger before forming it. What a waste.

Suits: Oh is that how you prep your cat-meat for grilling in The Jing? [I keed! I keed!]

Deadly serious for a moment -- "That guy" has forgotten more about how to prepare meat than most of us will ever know.

Here are the two methods, direct and indirect, for grilling a burger to perfection:

Post: #44

(07-09-2015 03:25 PM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  No need to argue here really. Both sides are right to a degree.

Animal cruelty is in our current high-tech state unnecessary. We have already technologies which could let animals fall asleep through gas, chemicals or even sound-wave technology. They would fall asleep and not even witness their death. As far as mass holdings and foremost the terrible state that chickens or pigs find themselves - yes that is mass cruelty to the x-degree except for some organic and small farms.

As far as eating meat goes - in most areas and times of human history there was no choice. During WWI many young recruits grew some 3 inches on average because they tasted meat for the first time on a regular basis. When you are starved of essential nutrients and fats, because you don't have avocados, healthy fats and the like during winter and crucial development phases, then you may grow to be dumber and shorter.

That said - there is also some truth to the fact, that meat is rather problematic for us humans. For example all alternative diet therapies in terms of cancer abolish completely milk products and all meats for a time and replace it all with a raw vegan diet. The ingestion of meat is problematic for humans.

Plus there are other indicators that show that we humans seem to be better suited to vegan diets:



Personally I am not completely set yet on what is the best human diet. I would not recommend the elimination of meat as of yet. The elite actually wants it and the UN has written about it. But don't think that you are to get high quality vegan food - it will be more likely frozen beans and potatoes - all soaked with pesticides. That is no improvement.

Our technological state could already create a wonderful environment for animals where they would have a great life and a painless death and it would be better if meat was 2-3 times more expensive, but just much more nutritious and healthy at the same time. That way it would be a win-win except for the psychopathic feedlot-operators, which should be banned anyway for many reasons.

I don't necessarily disagree with that, but not exactly a unbiased source on that graphic.

Post: #45

Whenever I see the infamous teeth comparison above, I get enraged.
What a bonobo one of our closest "siblings" looks like.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_chi...d_foraging

Humans may have lost their fangs, because they are disadvantageous in fist fights. Ripping your mouth to shreds when hit in the face.

Post: #46

(07-09-2015 03:25 PM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  Plus there are other indicators that show that we humans seem to be better suited to vegan diets:

On the other hand, look at the eyes: "eyes in front, ready to hunt, eyes to the side, run and hide". Almost universally, predators eyes face forward and they have depth perception, herbivores eyes face to the side and they have incredibly wide field of view, but little or no depth perception.

Our head structure is set up to be a hunter. There are good arguments that the reason we evolved big brains is because men are trackers & stalkers. Lions & pure carnivores are built around rapid assault and aggression. Pure herbivores either have formidable defenses or formidable speed. Men have neither, but we have intelligence and endurance. Men can jog along at a moderate pace for hours. Over very long distances, men can outrun horses. In fact, a man can outrun any animal over very long distances.

There are a very few primitive societies left where they practice hunting by exhaustion; they literally chase an animal to its death. It's not even a matter of finding a cliff and getting the animal to run off it. An antelope can outrun a man, but as long as a group of men can keep an animal in the line of sight, they can chase it until it collapses from exhaustion, and then a kill is straightforward.

In fact, this is a lot like how packs of dogs hunt which neatly explains why dogs and men have a symbiotic relationship.

Post: #47

(07-09-2015 03:07 PM)Nord Wrote:  

(07-09-2015 02:50 PM)MidWest Wrote:  Has anybody seen people slaughter hogs or cows?

It is pretty sad when you see the pig literally yelling for its life while someone is trying to cute its throat. But then again I love my pork-chops and sausage.

Its been happening for thousands of years, and if you were born 150+ years ago you'd likely have been taught to do it yourself.

Exactly.

I have grown up with my father and grandfather knocking cows,lambs and pigs out with a sledgehammer straight into their head.

None of these animals yelled, they were killed in their own enviroment.

I still have a hard time understanding people who have "feelings" for animals that we are eating. For me it's just a other animal. We feed them to get food on the table.

Post: #48

(07-09-2015 07:13 PM)Chaos Wrote:  

(07-09-2015 03:07 PM)Nord Wrote:  

(07-09-2015 02:50 PM)MidWest Wrote:  Has anybody seen people slaughter hogs or cows?

It is pretty sad when you see the pig literally yelling for its life while someone is trying to cute its throat. But then again I love my pork-chops and sausage.

Its been happening for thousands of years, and if you were born 150+ years ago you'd likely have been taught to do it yourself.

Exactly.

I have grown up with my father and grandfather knocking cows,lambs and pigs out with a sledgehammer straight into their head.

None of these animals yelled, they were killed in their own enviroment.

I still have a hard time understanding people who have "feelings" for animals that we are eating. For me it's just a other animal. We feed them to get food on the table.

Its a lot better than what Mexicans do.

Mexicans grab the pig, tie it up and use a sharp iron stick and stab the pig in the flesh as they try to aim at the heart while the pig is bleeding and screaming in pain. I've witnessed this twice and it was not a pretty sight.

Post: #49

Related...

From the golden era of The Simpsons:

Post: #50

Any of you ever try the In n' Out Burger?