Nice find regarding the DAFT treaty.

To follow up on the additional 90 days allowed in Denmark, I asked their embassy and those extra 90 days also apply to all countries in the Nordic Passport Union (Sweden, Norway, Finland, Iceland).

http://www.nyidanmark.dk/en-us/coming_to...travel.htm

Essentially, to sum this thread up, if you are american you can technically stay as long in Schengen as you want as long as you leave through Poland or Denmark.

Has anyone here had problems when they left Poland after overextending in Schengen? The law of the land is that americans can stay as long as they want as long as they prove they left poland 1 day out of every 90, but not every border patrol person will know this.

Another thing I've realized: the US has pre-schengen bilateral visa waiver agreements with other european countries, but these agreements are nowhere to be found on the internet. One must actually call the embassies of these particular countries and get the answers straight from the source.

I'm going to be staying in europe for a while, so I'm either going to do the Polish/danish exit strategy, OR get the german self-employment visa. The problem is: the german self employment visa costs 51 euro a month for the most basic health insurance coverage (which they force you to get), and you have to pay a visa processing fee. Thats going to add a lot of money, plus I'm not sure if I want to stay just in germany for that stay, so it's basically pointless as it would be illegal to go to another country besides germany.

The only thing that would screw me if I were to do the danish/polish exit strategy is a random internal border check. Normally there you can travel through EU countries and they don't look at your passport, but sometimes they do, and if so, you could be booted out of schengen for 3 years and have to pay a 1200 euro fine. The most feared outcome.

These bullshit schengen rules may not be much of a problem in the future though: the European Commission is thinking about implementing a pan-Schengen Touring Visa starting in 2015 which would give you three months in each schengen country. I don't know why they dont' already have this, but it's good news.

http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-14-347_en.htm

I emailed the French embassy about this, and apparently France is another country that allows US citizens to spend 90 additional days in the country (independent of stays in other Schengen states). Just like Denmark.

Here's another recent possibility. German universities now offer free tuition, so technically you can enroll in one and if you can show you have money to support yourself or your parents will help you out, you can stay get a student visa that way.

http://www.topuniversities.com/forum/stu...n-deadline

The only concerns I may have about this route is that the public schools might be selective on whether you get to enroll based on grades and other credentials and whether you can get away with doing this every year without actually attending classes.

Anyone here can fill us in on this matter?

dontuan, nice find. I wonder if you need to be able to speak German.

I can confirm another successful use of this Poland loophole. This time, I again stayed in Schengen for well over 90 days, traveling to various countries within the EU-Schengen area. When leaving via Warsaw airport today, I just told the agents I was in Poland the whole time except for a short trip to Berlin (showing my hotel receipt). There were no issues.

interesting thread. it seems Yaz and Jasond have confirmed a US citizen can stay in the EU indefinitely as long as we fly into Poland and leave via Poland? am i correct that, i could fly into Poland, travel by land to say, Croatia, stay in Croatia as long as i like (more than 90 days) and when it is time to leave the EU, go back to Poland and fly out with a receipt from another EU country? or am i reading this incorrectly?

I'm referencing this here to keep the details together... it seems to me that if one wishes to use the Polish exception to the 90/180 rule, entries and departures must be made from a Polish border point, not from another country in the Schengen zone.

Thread: Strong Warning About The Poland Loophole

(01-08-2015 10:10 AM)aphelion Wrote:  ...is that it might not work.

I scheduled my return flight through Amsterdam. Border guards detained me on violating Schengen rules and refused entry, including indicating that they marked me as 'refused entry'. They looked up the referenced treaty and indicated that it didn't apply anymore, that it was basically old and only ever relied upon for emergency diplomatic purposes.

Furthermore, they were not happy that I had overstayed (never mind that I left Poland and came back, they didn't care about that). They understood my confusion and did not assign me any additional penalty, and assisted me with finding a new flight out and being generally nice about the whole process. But, it broke some hearts over in Poland.

Maybe I should have routed through UK and then straight to Poland, or something to that effect, but entering via other countries now certainly poses a risk.

Moral of the story: have a backup plan.

(11-29-2014 03:27 PM)rmm1110 Wrote:  interesting thread. it seems Yaz and Jasond have confirmed a US citizen can stay in the EU indefinitely as long as we fly into Poland and leave via Poland? am i correct that, i could fly into Poland, travel by land to say, Croatia, stay in Croatia as long as i like (more than 90 days) and when it is time to leave the EU, go back to Poland and fly out with a receipt from another EU country? or am i reading this incorrectly?

Croatia is part of the EU, but not part of the Schengen Zone. Romania and Bulgaria are also part of the EU, but not part of Schengen.

(11-29-2014 03:27 PM)rmm1110 Wrote:  am i reading this incorrectly?

Yes, you are. For it to work, you would have to travel back to Poland every 90 days to do a border run to a non-Schengen country (UK, Ukraine, Belarus, Bulgaria/Romania until they join).

In addition to what Eddie Morra pointed out. However, Croatia is set to join the Schengen zone sometime later this year. They don't have the same problems with gypsies and loose borders as Bulgaria and Romania do.

(01-08-2015 11:46 AM)Eddie Morra Wrote:  

(11-29-2014 03:27 PM)rmm1110 Wrote:  interesting thread. it seems Yaz and Jasond have confirmed a US citizen can stay in the EU indefinitely as long as we fly into Poland and leave via Poland? am i correct that, i could fly into Poland, travel by land to say, Croatia, stay in Croatia as long as i like (more than 90 days) and when it is time to leave the EU, go back to Poland and fly out with a receipt from another EU country? or am i reading this incorrectly?

Croatia is part of the EU, but not part of the Schengen Zone. Romania and Bulgaria are also part of the EU, but not part of Schengen.

Question, if I wanted to fly to Budapest, stay 90 days, then fly to Bucharest, stay 90 days, then fly to Kiev, and stay 90 days, would I'd be clear of any problem leaving Ukraine back to US since Romania is not part of the Schengen, and that stay in Romania would satisfy the 90/180 restriction? Thanks.

(01-24-2015 11:13 AM)AwesomeX Wrote:  Question, if I wanted to fly to Budapest, stay 90 days, then fly to Bucharest, stay 90 days, then fly to Kiev, and stay 90 days, would I'd be clear of any problem leaving Ukraine back to US since Romania is not part of the Schengen, and that stay in Romania would satisfy the 90/180 restriction? Thanks.

Yes I believe that you would be fine for now. Eventually Romania and Bulgaria will join.

you can stay in any country as long as you want - provided :

a.) you can afford it / have a source of income.

b.) you don't get stopped by police and questioned in too much detail about your immigration status.... only carry a driving license (passport is in the safe) and say you are leaving in a few days, avoid driving too much especially on weekends in busy centers where they are doing DUI checks etc.....

c.) you have a good place to stay, where the landlord is not too nosey about who you are and what you are doing.... a lot of EU countries require you to be registered at the local town hall for taxes, health insurance etc. this can make it complicated / impossible to buy a car, rent an apartment long term etc.... you have to live like a tourist.... and furnished tourist apartments tend to ask more questions about WTF you are doing for so long.... corporate rental for 'several business people' to come and go is a good excuse... then it's not YOU personally still renting the apartment 36 months later.... when the new real estate mangers starts to ask questions....

d.) you have an exit plan.... the problem is always the exit.... however.... many countries don't give a shit when you are leaving - France most certainly doesn't check on departure... you can leave by road, by private boat, hitch hike, walk across the border in the countryside etc.

in countries like Australia and New Zealand due to lots of Brits and Irish over staying, they heavily police the out bound immigration and will stop you, make you miss the flight, stick you in some detention center for a weak and then buy you the most expensive ticket possible and make you pay for it.... oh and black list you for 3-5 years.

Europe is wide open and you can always cross into Russia, Switzerland, Finland, Turkey, etc. since there are no borders inside the EU, it's just a question of getting to an exit point where no one is checking you on exit.... For example, French, Italians and Germans don't give a damn when you cross to Switzerland...

No immigration officer gives a damn where you came from, they have no authority in that department.... their only job is to check you out as you enter their country.... If you stay in Poland 10 years and cross into Switzerland or Russia, no one cares where you have been.... some airports don't even date stamp you on entry, smudge the date out, stamps are far from fool proof, especially if you have several.... The main thing they are interested in is that you are not going to overstay, that you have money and a ticket home.... - act cool, have a good reason to visit and a ticket back to your country - where you came from is immaterial....

Finally - buy long term health insurance for ex-pats and keep the card on you.... you don't want to get stuck with some massive medical bill in some crappy country..... or worse, get left to die at the side of the road...

(01-08-2015 12:00 PM)DaveR Wrote:  

(11-29-2014 03:27 PM)rmm1110 Wrote:  am i reading this incorrectly?

Yes, you are. For it to work, you would have to travel back to Poland every 90 days to do a border run to a non-Schengen country (UK, Ukraine, Belarus, Bulgaria/Romania until they join).

In addition to what Eddie Morra pointed out. However, Croatia is set to join the Schengen zone sometime later this year. They don't have the same problems with gypsies and loose borders as Bulgaria and Romania do.

Just to be clear, if I'm in Poland it's fine as long as I leave every 90 days outside the Shengen zone, then can come back the next day and refresh. But if, for example, I was in Poland 179 days straight (with one day to leave and come back in the middle) that also means that I have not exhausted my Schengen 90 out of 180 day rule in other countries, therefore I could go to Austria and spend up to 90 days there as well?

Assume no Americans have had issues with this in the past couple of years? Do they give you a hard time when you make your border runs or is it no problem at all? Thx.

(06-05-2015 09:40 AM)Akula Wrote:  

(01-08-2015 12:00 PM)DaveR Wrote:  

(11-29-2014 03:27 PM)rmm1110 Wrote:  am i reading this incorrectly?

Yes, you are. For it to work, you would have to travel back to Poland every 90 days to do a border run to a non-Schengen country (UK, Ukraine, Belarus, Bulgaria/Romania until they join).

In addition to what Eddie Morra pointed out. However, Croatia is set to join the Schengen zone sometime later this year. They don't have the same problems with gypsies and loose borders as Bulgaria and Romania do.

Just to be clear, if I'm in Poland it's fine as long as I leave every 90 days outside the Shengen zone, then can come back the next day and refresh. But if, for example, I was in Poland 179 days straight (with one day to leave and come back in the middle) that also means that I have not exhausted my Schengen 90 out of 180 day rule in other countries, therefore I could go to Austria and spend up to 90 days there as well?

Assume no Americans have had issues with this in the past couple of years? Do they give you a hard time when you make your border runs or is it no problem at all? Thx.

They other countries apply the rules as per the Schengen treaty which they. I.e. they treat the entire Schengen zone as a single travel area, so they'll consider you to be 89 days over the limit. They don't have any provisions under the treaty to take account of Poland's exception for Americans. Basically what this guy experienced: http://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-44014.html

So if you plan on spending time in other Schengen countries, you'll have to try to stay under the radar - rent through AirBNB or similar so you can avoid having your passport details recorded. Also try to avoid public transport. Maybe take a minibus from Katowice to Ostrava or Zilina as they usually don't take passport details. Then either by train or bus to Brno or Bratislava and then an airport bus to Vienna.

It isn't a great loophole in all because it screws up your travel in the rest of the Schengen zone... If you want to spend a lot of time in Europe, a better option would probably be to check out residency (eg. real estate in Latvia). If you're living off savings, retired or can show some other kind of passive income, France and Spain issue 'retiree' visas without too much hassle. You'll have to stay there for some time while your residency permit is processed. Taxes may also be a problem though..

(01-27-2015 08:24 PM)raywolf Wrote:  you can stay in any country as long as you want - provided :

...

b.) you don't get stopped by police and questioned in too much detail about your immigration status.... only carry a driving license (passport is in the safe)
...
c.) you have a good place to stay, where the landlord is not too nosey about who you are and what you are doing.... a lot of EU countries require you to be registered at the local town hall for taxes, health insurance etc. ...

Europe is wide open and you can always cross into Russia, Switzerland, Finland, Turkey, etc. since there are no borders inside the EU, it's just a question of getting to an exit point where no one is checking you on exit.... For example, French, Italians and Germans don't give a damn when you cross to Switzerland...
...

No immigration officer gives a damn where you came from, they have no authority in that department.... their only job is to check you out as you enter their country....
...
some airports don't even date stamp you on entry, smudge the date out, stamps are far from fool proof, especially if you have several....

Unfortunately ...
Unlike the USA in most Eur.countries the police does not need probable cause to stop you and ask for ID on a train or even walking doen the street.
You are requiredto have either your passport or EU ID with you; a US DL won't do.
Landlords ofshort term rentals (like hotels) will often register you with the local police.
French, Italians, Germans and Austrians DO care when you cross into Switzerland (especially the first two countries) often looking forcurrency smuggling, but they do ID checks on occasion.
Switzerland is part of Schengen.
Border officers do check for overstaying, etc.
There are electronic records of passports, they are scanned on entry and exit, that's done so quickly that you might not even notice, so a smudged stamp or no stamp, is meaningless.

Now, in practice, ID checks other than at border crossings are rare, overstays often ignored, sometimes border checks are not conducted, soif you're lucky you my not have problems.

Personally I'd rather notrely on luck. If you have money to support yourself and come from a first-world country, getting a visa seems like the way to go.

I have traveled quite a lot by train and although it's rare, there have been timeswhen EVERYONE on the train carriage had to show identification. Many have EU ID, others (tourists mostly) their passport.
If you're ten years old and traveling with your parent you're probably fine.
If you speak the language and the police is abletodo a radio check of your name and date of birth showing you're a citizen or resident you're fine.
If you're a foreigner but with a passport, and don't look like a bum, you will often get lucky and not have the police check your entry stamp or radio to find out when you entered the country.
If you're none of the above, you will be asked to step off the train. I've seen it happen, usually to people from Latin America or North Africa.

Can this loophole be used to garner the years of residency required to get permanent Polish citizenship? The Polish requirement for citizenship is:

"Poland: 5 years of residence, dual citizenship is NOT allowed."

Would staying for 5 years or so in Poland, using this loophole, count as residency, and allow you to become acquire citizenship?

(06-18-2015 04:15 PM)browser Wrote:  Can this loophole be used to garner the years of residency required to get permanent Polish citizenship? The Polish requirement for citizenship is:

"Poland: 5 years of residence, dual citizenship is NOT allowed."

Would staying for 5 years or so in Poland, using this loophole, count as residency, and allow you to become acquire citizenship?

Almost anywhere in the world, the timeline for citizenship is based on LEGAL permanent residency. The U.S. is one of the few nations on the planet that periodically grants amnesty to lawbreakers and grants citizenship to illegal aliens. So no, you cannot fail to garner legal permanent residency in Poland, or almost anywhere else, and then seek citizenship. The process is typically temporary residency followed by permanent residency and then citizenship.

Interestingly, one of the quickest ways to obtain citizenship in many countries is by marrying a local. It takes as little as one year (e.g., Brazil). Only you can know whether a quick citizenship is worth the long-term pain of such an endeavor!

(06-18-2015 04:52 PM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  Interestingly, one of the quickest ways to obtain citizenship in many countries is by marrying a local. It takes as little as one year (e.g., Brazil). Only you can know whether a quick citizenship is worth the long-term pain of such an endeavor!

I heard that's a possibility, yoo.

Random question, what do you think that would cost to pay someone to marry? It opens a shitload of issues I bet if you have any sort of assets.

Has anyone used the Poland loophole recently?

I'm curious since I may soon be attempting to use it. Will report if I do.

Have used it 3 times this year (most recently this month), all via Warsaw airport, without any problems.

(10-21-2015 01:48 PM)jasond Wrote:  Have used it 3 times this year (most recently this month), all via Warsaw airport, without any problems.

Thanks man! If I could give you another +1 rep point, I would!