Post: #4176

3 years ago I invested all my oil money in a rock imaging system (for mudlogging) which I might be able to sell now for a lot of money.
At the time it seemed stupid because I spent all my money on it, but it might be my only savior now.

I know a lot of Geologists who stayed in school for the masters degree, expecting to come out and make 100k+ their first year. Nope, priced dropped to $26 a barrel now they're completely fucked. The job cuts have been brutal. A lot of really smart, high-IQ people ended up jobless. Geophysicists who can't find work, etc..

The Saudi Oil sheiks want to maintain their monopoly so they can keep shitting on hot porta pottie sluts, so they flood the market and destroy your industry. You're a petroleum engineer who got straight A's? too bad bitch, I want to keep shitting on this slut so were going to destroy your chances at a job by driving the price down. Your academic 'achievements' are only worth toilet paper.

That's why Ive always maintained it's better to be clever and have street smarts as opposed to 'doing the right thing' in school. Those who follow instructions get crushed.

Post: #4177

Guys like geologist are the first to get the axe, if the exploration side isn't exploring then they're fucked, same goes for a lot of the guys on that end. That's why I always promote maintenance work, we're obviously still affected by the down turn but as long as the plants and refineries are making oil, there'll be maintenance work.

Post: #4178

(01-29-2016 06:03 PM)Disco_Volante Wrote:  3 years ago I invested all my oil money in a rock imaging system (for mudlogging) which I might be able to sell now for a lot of money.
At the time it seemed stupid because I spent all my money on it, but it might be my only savior now.

I know a lot of Geologists who stayed in school for the masters degree, expecting to come out and make 100k+ their first year. Nope, priced dropped to $26 a barrel now they're completely fucked. The job cuts have been brutal. A lot of really smart, high-IQ people ended up jobless. Geophysicists who can't find work, etc..

The Saudi Oil sheiks want to maintain their monopoly so they can keep shitting on hot porta pottie sluts, so they flood the market and destroy your industry. You're a petroleum engineer who got straight A's? too bad bitch, I want to keep shitting on this slut so were going to destroy your chances at a job by driving the price down. Your academic 'achievements' are only worth toilet paper.

That's why Ive always maintained it's better to be clever and have street smarts as opposed to 'doing the right thing' in school. Those who follow instructions get crushed.

That doesn't make sense. If you're "clever and have street smarts," a solid education can only benefit you that much more. If your goal is to become a doctor, a lawyer, an accountant etc... you have to go to school and you will succeed or fail based on how much effort you put in. If your goal is to become a welder or a mechanic or an electrician you still have to go to school and your results will again depend on how much effort you put in. Following instructions are a part of growing up.

I know what you're trying to say. You're trying to say university is useless. On a macro level it isn't. But if you have no clear goals and plans or any clear reason to be in school, you shouldn't waste your time. An arts degree is useless when your goal in life is to be rich. But that same arts degree is very useful if you plan on going to medical/law school or if you're passionate about the subject.

There's no blanket solution here. An undergraduate degree wouldn't have bought me a condo in downtown Vancouver, but a trade in Alberta and 3 years of work did. But that same undergraduate degree might have ended up putting me in law school or resulted in a high paying job a few years after I had graduated.

Just because an engineer can't find a job this year, due to low oil prices, it doesn't mean he can't be successful in a 35-40 year professional lifespan. That same engineer can make an okay living on the patch as Joe Tradesman until he finds his footing in the engineering world and go up from there.

Education is important, but it's not the answer. If you're smart and dedicated and you love a certain field, university can be your shortcut to a great life. If you need more time to figure things out (like I did), going to university straight away is a mistake, but can become an option later on.

Those "who follow instructions" don't get crushed. Those who follow instructions blindly get crushed. When Scotian opened up this thread, he never guaranteed success. Those that moved to Alberta all had different levels of success (whatever your definition of success is) based on how much effort they put in. Irishman made a ton of cash in his first year b/c he worked 3 jobs. There was no secret recipe. When society says university and higher education is important and it will lead to a successful and healthy life, it generally does! It does for those that put in the effort and have a long-term goal. An engineer not getting a job in the short-term, because oil prices are low and Canada's cost of production is high doesn't mean he won't get a job a year from now. And it also doesn't say anything about the million other professions that require university degrees.

For every successful guy without a university degree, there are 10 successful guys with a university degree. Think about the millions of people employed in the IT industry, health care, finance/accounting/audit, management, legal professions and even engineers.

Sorry for the long rant, but there was a time when I would have said the same thing: that university is useless and a waste of time and money. But the answer is more complicated. University degrees aren't "worth toilet paper," but they're also not the whole answer. As you said, being street smart matters. I define "street smart" as having lots of skills in life. For me, "lots of skills" will come in the shape of trade tickets that I can use in Alberta and, hopefully, an accounting designation that I can use all around the world. If I can't make it as an accountant, I can go back to the trades. An engineer that can't make it as an engineer in the short-term can fall on something else and work his way into the profession.

Fuck me, that was a long rant. I don't even remember what I really got worked up about when I started typing all this shit lol

Better end it here.

Post: #4179

I'm just reiterating what Disco said. It's true and sad to see recent petroleum engineer and geology grads not being able to find work at all once they graduate. My boss' son just graduated with a masters in geology and he hasn't been able to find work in his field so he's resorting to teaching part time at a junior college for minimal pay. 1.5 years ago he'd be making 100k plus with that same degree. I'm a recruiter at a major oil company so I see this stuff all the time in this environment.

I think one of the key takeaways is to get a degree or choose a career that can span Industries and isn't tied to a specific industry like oil or tech. For example a petroleum engineer grad can't find work right now because oil is down now, but a mechanical engineer can still find work in other industries like automotive. I'm in HR so if I get laid off I can switch industries and work in tech or health care doing the same HR work. Same with supply chain, accounting, IT, tax etc.

Post: #4180

(01-31-2016 08:39 AM)Oilrig Wrote:  I'm just reiterating what Disco said. It's true and sad to see recent petroleum engineer and geology grads not being able to find work at all once they graduate. My boss' son just graduated with a masters in geology and he hasn't been able to find work in his field so he's resorting to teaching part time at a junior college for minimal pay. 1.5 years ago he'd be making 100k plus with that same degree. I'm a recruiter at a major oil company so I see this stuff all the time in this environment.

I think one of the key takeaways is to get a degree or choose a career that can span Industries and isn't tied to a specific industry like oil or tech. For example a petroleum engineer grad can't find work right now because oil is down now, but a mechanical engineer can still find work in other industries like automotive. I'm in HR so if I get laid off I can switch industries and work in tech or health care doing the same HR work. Same with supply chain, accounting, IT, tax etc.

Fair enough, but I'm sure that Petroleum engineer isn't stuck to one industry either. Chemical and Petro. engineering are close enough that he can find work in other industries. My brother is studying chemical engineering and he's working as a co-op student right now (starting his 4th year this year). He's working at a battery company here in Vancouver. A few years from now he could be in the oil industry if it picks up again. Or he could be working at a dairy plant! Petro. is a more specialized field of chemical from my understanding.

Re. that geology grad, many factors could be in play. Is he willing to work outside the country? In the mining industry? Does he have experience? etc... Trades are no different if you have restrictions in front of you (lack of experience, unwillingness to travel, slowdown of construction within your territory or if you're in a very specialized trade).

University isn't always the answer, but it's not as useless as people think. Even if you never use your degree, university education can open up doors down the line when competition is tight. Take airline pilots for example. Air Canada highly recommends applicants have university education or degrees, in any field, even though being pilot has nothing to do with, say, accounting!

Quote:Pilot applications far exceed job vacancies, so preference is given to candidates with qualifications beyond the basic requirements. Examples of desirable additional qualifications include, but are not limited to: graduates of a three or four year diploma/degree program from a college or university

Same with police officers who want to become detectives! There's more demand than supply, so cops without a university degree rarely get selected.

In the long-term, on the macro level, university education is very important. But on the micro level, the answer is more complicated (depends on the region of the world you live in, personal preference, whether you want to make money from day 1 or whether you can handle a gradual increase in remuneration over time etc...). Most tradesmen, working full time, would make more money working in Alberta than a relatively new doctor/lawyer/accountant etc... But in year 10 or 15 there's usually a sudden shift in favor of the doctor/lawyer/accountant camp and it can be quite a drastic shift. There's no easy answer.

Post: #4181

Its catch 22.

Highly specialized guys kill it when there is demand. Very few can do your job so when prices are high they will pay top dollar to get you. When prices drop you can't move around as easy.
Non specialized guys find it easier to move around but can't demand that same price when there is more people who can do your job.

It is all about what risks you want to take. I went highly specialized and made close to 1k a day when the going was good. Now that its not so good as an MWD I can't exactly go work in too many other places for similar money. Most people don't even know what my job is. But you stay flexible and move on. I have thought myself to code over the last month and just got a job that made me 1.5k in a week.

Nothing you learn is life is useless even if that industry dries up. Most skills can be useful elsewhere. Over your lifetime a lot of industries will come and go. Trick is to bank some cash while you can, enjoy life in between and use what you already have to jump into the next industry. I might not be able to use MWD experience but the work ethic (lol), computer skills and other parts come in handy if you stay flexible and are willing to relearn a whole new skill.

I studied four year to learn to be a construction manager and graduated to Ireland's massive construction recession so this is my third time learning something completely new while jumping industries. It usually takes one year to get good, another year to start getting paid well and by the third you are banking great cash.

I am pro degree but knowing that the main thing is that you are learning to learn. If you finish a four year degree and think you are done with learning new things then you're an idiot. You know way less than the guy who spent four years actuality working. The advantage to a degree is learning how to learn and that advantage should see you rising faster over the space of a few years. For the guys who are graduating now but can't adjust to low oil, well they probably would have been fucked in the long run anyway if they can't run around now and learn something else.

That is my rant for today anyway.

Post: #4182

I admire your hard work Atlantic, you are a true hustler. The oil guy just taught himself coding? haha, classic.

Post: #4183

(02-01-2016 06:01 AM)pitt Wrote:  I admire your hard work Atlantic, you are a true hustler. The oil guy just taught himself coding? haha, classic.

I remember in 1999 when some nerd in our class was telling us about email. We made fun of him for weeks 'sending letters to people on the internet HAHAHA'. He was also big into coding which we made even more fun out of. He is probably a millionaire now while I am watching YouTube videos on HTML lol.

Post: #4184

I was offered a job yesterday but it starts soon, as early as two weeks but I have the option of waiting a month instead. I'd like to stack some serious cash this year, last year was my worst year financially since my first year in the biz ($70,000, not a huge deal though as my expenses are low.

Post: #4185

Nima it is harder for petroleum engineers to find jobs in other non oil industries as opposed to say a civil, electrical, or mechanical engineer, that is a fact. I talk to these guys everyday as a recruiter and they all tell me how hard it is to find a job in this market. Below is a really good article about the decline of petroleum engineering programs in this current market.

http://www.cnbc.com/2015/12/04/petroleum...-bust.html

Post: #4186

MWD=MovieWatchingDude

Post: #4187

I moved here to Edmonton about two and a half years ago. Being honest, while the economy is declining the last year has been the most financially rewarding. Like others have said once one gets more experience and tickets it becomes much easier to get desirable jobs to the point that two years ago with no experience I was only working a couple shutdowns a year and struggling in between. At the moment it seems like I have my choice of jobs. Maintenance work is not affected as much as other sectors as Scotian has stated and being almost a j-man welder there seems to still be a decent amount of jobs around.

Post: #4188

Great discussion in here on the value of formal degrees. Only thing I'll add is that college is what you make of it, not what it makes of you. Atlantic hit the nail on the head when he said to never stop learning. Applying that same philosophy to your time in university, the value you get from it comes from your drive to learn, it's not imparted on you by the university. Young people may be steered towards colleges with "elite" reputations, but I can tell you 10 years into your career nearly nobody cares what university you attended. Armed with that understanding, you should avoid attending an overpriced school based on some misguided notion that their diploma will be your golden ticket to life. Unless you're an academic wizkid, take advantage of in-state tuition and/or shop around for more affordable options. It's becoming less and less common for parents to pay their kids way through school.

Post: #4189

Are they hiring video editors or videographers up there by any chance?

I can't rely on the field I'm in for steady income anymore and I'm looking for places where I can still use my skills and make a living.

Post: #4190

The one glimmer of hope in the doom and gloom was shutdown work. I just went through postings , all require previous experience . WTF is one supposed to do ? As far as skilled trades go I want to get in as a Class 1 driver , or equipment operator . Any suggestions getting a foot in the door ? Scotian suggested Safety but I figure everything is on the wayside . I dont really want to go back to Ontario .

Post: #4191

(02-08-2016 09:17 PM)Sal Ceech Wrote:  The one glimmer of hope in the doom and gloom was shutdown work. I just went through postings , all require previous experience . WTF is one supposed to do ? As far as skilled trades go I want to get in as a Class 1 driver , or equipment operator . Any suggestions getting a foot in the door ? Scotian suggested Safety but I figure everything is on the wayside . I dont really want to go back to Ontario .

Here in BC we have Occupational First Aid tickets (3 levels, with the highest being one below EMR). It's a 1-2 week course. Every construction site needs first aid attendants as well as safety officers. Of course trades people need to have their own first aid tickets as well, but occupational first aid attendants are there to stop people from dying till the ambulance gets there or until the injured party is dropped off at the hospital.

I don't know what they call it in Alberta, but google advanced first aid and occupational first aid and see what comes up. I did this right after I graduated from high school. I was essentially a glorified laborer on random constructions sites around where I lived at the time, but I got paid 10 dollars an hour more than every other laborer. This was between 2007-2009. I took the course at St. John Ambulance (OFA level 3).
http://www.sja.ca/English/Courses-and-Tr...urses.aspx

Post: #4192

Thanks so much Bro ! I will check it out .

Post: #4193

Just checking in to say I'm still here.

The proverbial shit has hit the fan since I last posted. It's been a funny winter. But have kept busy renovating my basement into a suite when the work has been quiet.

It's tough out there. But I'm keeping the cash coming in. I'll see out this recession because I'm here to stay and an Alberta recession (as bad as this one is) still presents opportunities for getting by.

I've no nuggets of wisdom as such to add. But my personal story so far has been get and keep a steady job with a worldwide corporation, obtain mortgage approval, buy a bungalow in a nice location in need of renovation. Did that renovation mostly singlehandedly in the evenings with blood, sweat, frustration, electrocution, shouting, crying, more shouting and cursing.. and most importantly... free credit on materials from a Home Depot card.
End result : Mortgage = $1500
Rental of main floor and basement combined = circa $2700

Post: #4194

(02-18-2016 03:45 AM)John Mack Wrote:  Just checking in to say I'm still here.

The proverbial shit has hit the fan since I last posted. It's been a funny winter. But have kept busy renovating my basement into a suite when the work has been quiet.

It's tough out there. But I'm keeping the cash coming in. I'll see out this recession because I'm here to stay and an Alberta recession (as bad as this one is) still presents opportunities for getting by.

I've no nuggets of wisdom as such to add. But my personal story so far has been get and keep a steady job with a worldwide corporation, obtain mortgage approval, buy a bungalow in a nice location in need of renovation. Did that renovation mostly singlehandedly in the evenings with blood, sweat, frustration, electrocution, shouting, crying, more shouting and cursing.. and most importantly... free credit on materials from a Home Depot card.
End result : Mortgage = $1500
Rental of main floor and basement combined = circa $2700

That's awesome, good for you.

Post: #4195

Not to be a dick to the ones losing their jobs, but I see layoffs of oil veterans with 20+ years in the industry, and they're complaining like their life is so hard.
My first year I made 82k as a mudlogger....I thought I was fucking rich. To me, that was all the money in the world.

Some of these guys have been getting paychecks that large - and even larger- for 20 fucking years and they're complaining?
I only received those large paychecks for 1.5 years before quitting to start my biz, but even receiving them for 4 years would leave you with a nice amount of cash.

If you have that much time in the oilfield you should have a very nice nestegg built up, at minimum your house paid off.

Even if you only caught the boom for 2011-2015, that's 4 years of paychecks higher than what 80% of Americans make.

Guess there'll be a lot of jacked up, $60,000 F-250s for sale in Texas. God forbid you work in the oilfield without driving a 60k truck.

Post: #4196

You're right disco. But most of these guys are young too and probably never had more than a few hundred bucks in their pocket and didn't understand the risks of going into debt.

Certainly no one to blame but themselves, but I still feel sorry for them and hope they can recover and learn a quality lesson without being subjected to financial ruin.

Myself I've been up here just under 3 years now and have banked a little over 200k by being responsible with my money. If things go well and I can avoid the axe during this oil crisis then I might be sitting at 400-500k after 5 years of work. That'll be my fuck-you money. Either way, if things go south, i've got 10 years of living expenses to cover me while I figure out the next step of my life.

Post: #4197

Hey guys new guy from Canada. I am working at CNRL horizon right now, and we are still moving along with new construction here. Horizon pumps out WTI so as long as the barrel stays above $27 we are golden. I do feel that it will dip in the low 20s probably 4thQ and 1stQ of 2017. Friends working in the SAGD plants are basically close to fucked now, as they are producing Canadian Select Crude which is a lower quality crude that requires more refining. I am a resident Albertan and staying positive. I feel that oil will rise stronger by 3rdQ 2017. What are your guys opinions? Also, in your opinion, will we ever see +$100 oil again? Reason I ask is due to innovations in alternative energy such as Tesla, Vestas, etc.

Post: #4198

(03-04-2016 09:11 PM)musashi Wrote:  Hey guys new guy from Canada. I am working at CNRL horizon right now, and we are still moving along with new construction here. Horizon pumps out WTI so as long as the barrel stays above $27 we are golden. I do feel that it will dip in the low 20s probably 4thQ and 1stQ of 2017. Friends working in the SAGD plants are basically close to fucked now, as they are producing Canadian Select Crude which is a lower quality crude that requires more refining. I am a resident Albertan and staying positive. I feel that oil will rise stronger by 3rdQ 2017. What are your guys opinions? Also, in your opinion, will we ever see +$100 oil again? Reason I ask is due to innovations in alternative energy such as Tesla, Vestas, etc.

I've been shitting on CNRL throughout this thread due to some bad experiences at a couple of their sites but I've come to realize that they aren't a bad company to work for. They made a shit ton of money last year despite low oil prices and will pump $2 billion into the Horizon site in 2016, you may see me up there again later on this year, I wouldn't mind doing a camp job for awhile. http://www.mymcmurray.com/cnrl-to-spend-...n-in-2016/

Post: #4199

Our project wraps up in June but my company has been here pretty much from the beginning so I doubt we will be demobilizing from site. Horizon and Fort Hills seem to be above water, so I feel Ill make it through this downturn. If you can handle the shitty camps here you are golden. CNRL basically leaves us alone for the most part so it is a much better atmosphere than Slumcor. Not as Nazi of a site as other sites. I also feel Cenovus will make it through quite well although I doubt we will see construction there until 2018.

Post: #4200

(03-05-2016 05:54 AM)musashi Wrote:  Our project wraps up in June but my company has been here pretty much from the beginning so I doubt we will be demobilizing from site. Horizon and Fort Hills seem to be above water, so I feel Ill make it through this downturn. If you can handle the shitty camps here you are golden. CNRL basically leaves us alone for the most part so it is a much better atmosphere than Slumcor. Not as Nazi of a site as other sites. I also feel Cenovus will make it through quite well although I doubt we will see construction there until 2018.

Ya the camps at CNRL kinda suck and the food isn't great, one of the reasons why I stopped working there. It was so bad that we'd send a guy into town to stock up on food and just eat on site in our work trailer, I doubt its improved much since then, here's a video of the type of thing I'd see on a regular basis in the camp there:




There's quite a few shut downs going on this year, I already have work lined up in the Edmonton area, hopefully I'll keep busy until the summer then I"m going to look into a camp job. I've heard of a few guys doing work in BC and others in mining over in Sask and up in the NWT, there's some nuke work happening in Ontario and that's going to get very busy in another 2-3 years. Hopefully all of this is enough to hold us over until oil rebounds but who knows, I was concerned last spring when I went back and oil was at $60, now I"m stressed out even more but there's not much we can do but wait.