Post: #51

(12-14-2011 01:19 PM)soup Wrote:  

(12-14-2011 12:42 PM)MiXX Wrote:  

(11-28-2011 08:42 AM)Lumiere Wrote:  The guy is not white knighting.

He is tooling you.

Their are a million AMOG threads on the internet. Check out the advice there.

I agree, this is not a white knight scenario, this guy is playing you for a fool, and using it to look alpha with other women. He obviously sees you as a threat to "his clients" which we all know is bullshit and is just trying to fuck the same girls you are.

Bottom Line: Unless you live in a town where that is the only bar around, go to another bar. Changing up venues is always good to keep your game on point. Or, isolate girls AWAY from the bar, where he cannot easily get to you.

Why the fuck are you bringing a guitar to a bar anyways unless you are there to play as paid performer? There are better props to use, leave the guitar in your car seat, and have a girl very curious when she sees it hoping in your ride.

Mixx

I have been hitting up other bars, but would like to have this one as an option because girls congregate there more than any other bar in the vicinity.

Union ave?

Post: #52

I stayed away from this place for a month and decided to check it out again a couple nights ago. The bouncer let me in, and I got a couple of drinks. The problem bartender was not there.

20 minutes later, the bouncer tells me that the manager said I was kicked out a few weeks ago and that I had to leave.

I'm going to try to make sure this doesn't happen again at other spots by over-tipping etc., but I think this guy just had it in for me and would have amogged regardless.

Post: #53

(12-23-2011 11:33 AM)soup Wrote:  I stayed away from this place for a month and decided to check it out again a couple nights ago. The bouncer let me in, and I got a couple of drinks. The problem bartender was not there.

20 minutes later, the bouncer tells me that the manager said I was kicked out a few weeks ago and that I had to leave.

I'm going to try to make sure this doesn't happen again at other spots by over-tipping etc., but I think this guy just had it in for me and would have amogged regardless.

Jump the fence, grab one of those spicy tacos and smash it in his face!

Post: #54

(11-24-2011 07:14 PM)Gmac Wrote:  

Quote:I think Gmac is right about all this. The staff are essentially a family and they all run the place together. The patrons are cattle.

I win!

Quote:I don't get the mentality of looking down on your regulars. Ok, so maybe he thinks I'm a caddy philanderer, but A) I'm a consistent patron, B) why do you give a shit? We all live there together, man.

I usually take a different approach when I start frequenting a new bar. If I go out to a bar or take a girl to one for a date, I make sure I already have the place on at least partial lockdown. Meaning, I've been to the bar a few times, introduced myself and made friends with a few of the bouncers/bartenders, over-tipped on my drinks, and always kept your cool (aka not starting fights, embarrassing yourself, or getting kicked out).

I run hospitality game on the staff since I was in the industry for a long time... I know how to befriend them. Once you've done that, you'll rarely run into the problem of cockblocking white knight bartenders. You can be a regular and still go unnoticed by the staff. Make friends and this problem disappears. Might be too late in your case with this particular bar, but you can always work the rest of the staff first.

I prefer this to the "dude what's your problem!" approach. You tend to put them on the defensive immediately and get yourself in a worse spot than you started.

If you couldn't tell, I'm all about the networking. Infiltrate and you quickly become part of that family. Once the bartenders start comping you drinks or doing shots with you for free, you know you're in. Just don't forget to overtip... this can all be done in one night.

I'm about start a residency at a new bar, and want to get this right.
Do you chat the staff up, or is overtipping and keeping cool enough? I know a guy who said he actually has more trouble running game in front of his bartender "friends." Is there a line that you draw with regards to your rapport with the staff?

Post: #55

(01-03-2012 12:51 PM)soup Wrote:  

(11-24-2011 07:14 PM)Gmac Wrote:  

Quote:I think Gmac is right about all this. The staff are essentially a family and they all run the place together. The patrons are cattle.

I win!

Quote:I don't get the mentality of looking down on your regulars. Ok, so maybe he thinks I'm a caddy philanderer, but A) I'm a consistent patron, B) why do you give a shit? We all live there together, man.

I usually take a different approach when I start frequenting a new bar. If I go out to a bar or take a girl to one for a date, I make sure I already have the place on at least partial lockdown. Meaning, I've been to the bar a few times, introduced myself and made friends with a few of the bouncers/bartenders, over-tipped on my drinks, and always kept your cool (aka not starting fights, embarrassing yourself, or getting kicked out).

I run hospitality game on the staff since I was in the industry for a long time... I know how to befriend them. Once you've done that, you'll rarely run into the problem of cockblocking white knight bartenders. You can be a regular and still go unnoticed by the staff. Make friends and this problem disappears. Might be too late in your case with this particular bar, but you can always work the rest of the staff first.

I prefer this to the "dude what's your problem!" approach. You tend to put them on the defensive immediately and get yourself in a worse spot than you started.

If you couldn't tell, I'm all about the networking. Infiltrate and you quickly become part of that family. Once the bartenders start comping you drinks or doing shots with you for free, you know you're in. Just don't forget to overtip... this can all be done in one night.

I'm about start a residency at a new bar, and want to get this right.
Do you chat the staff up, or is overtipping and keeping cool enough? I know a guy who said he actually has more trouble running game in front of his bartender "friends." Is there a line that you draw with regards to your rapport with the staff?

Overtipping isn't enough, you need to make small talk with the main bartenders or they won't remember you. You also need to stop by once or twice a week -- minimum -- to maintain, and a portion of that during slower periods.

Don't become friends with the bartenders, they should be acquaintances... a mutual partnership.

Post: #56

So, this is sort of an anniversary post. I say sort of because I've only been here since summer 2011.

I finally re-entered this bar that I was kicked out of 1/2 year ago.

No problem.

I was let in by the same guy who bounced me after thanksgiving.

Not the same bartender but it doesn't matter.

Post: #57

Went back tonight and the bouncer let me in.

One of the bartenders told, me "you can't come in here." And I was kicked out.

I don't get it. I was never caught doing anything that warranted a kick-out (or a permanent ban) from this place.

Post: #58

Find a new bar and if you catch the bar tender out and about sock him in his mouth. Really nothing you can do about it.

Post: #59

I was kicked out of a club once for talking to random girls and then the bouncer would not allow me in the next days.I guess one of the reasons it happened was too much PUA reading materials.Before entering the club I used to read fastseduction for 2-3 hours and then talk to girls like script.However this caused mass reaction.If you isolate yourself from the general environment and you do not get the vibes(other guys looking with vile eyes,bartender whispering to others about you,rude behavior,pushing etc) you are in for surprises after a while.The same happened to me recently when I was talking to a girl and all guys had stopped their conversations and were looking at me.
Especially with alcohol you lose control of the environment and while it facilitates first approaches it can prove destructive if you lack the reflexes to check and foresee the other guys,girls and establishment reaction.The better with girls you become the more dangerous you appear and the more threatening.Other guys notice too if sb is successful with women and will try naturally to block him.

After the bouncer told me not to enter I avoided this club and picked sometimes girls outside the club.In general I do not care because I move.Next year I came again to this resort in the summer he let me in and smiled to me probably he had forgotten me at all.When I got out he was friendly.This time however I picked up strategically not with PUA material but based on speed so that almost nobody in the club could see for example that I had approached 20 women in a row in less than 2 hours.I just do everything very fast now.

Post: #60

I don't understand, why do you ever even talk to the bartenders at all? I never speak to them unless it's to get a drink. If you don't speak to them, they can't get the chance to hate you, surely?

Post: #61

(05-04-2012 03:40 AM)soup Wrote:  Went back tonight and the bouncer let me in.

One of the bartenders told, me "you can't come in here." And I was kicked out.

I don't get it. I was never caught doing anything that warranted a kick-out (or a permanent ban) from this place.

It was unfortunate to hear what happened with the bartender but hopefully you found a new place to go and meet up lizards.

Have you gone there? Have they said anything?

I'm curious for an update.

Post: #62

It'a all good at this place, but I'm banned from another. C'est la Vie, hello day game.

Post: #63

This thread is a great read, it really makes me glad to live in such a vibrant city. There's nowhere that I'd keep going to if they didn't treat me right, there is simply too many options. I head out a minimum of 3 times a week, never cause trouble, drop some money at the bar, support staff when they are in dealing with asshole punters, my businesses damn valuable.

That said I have been thrown out of the same club twice, once because a girl punched me in the ear, and a second time because I tackled a bouncer to the floor. Didn't get banned though.

Post: #64

Now that asshole bartender is back and he is managing, and he's had me permanently banned.

The guy actually looked me up on facebook and wrote a multi-paragraphed letter to me about why I was banned.

Looking back on this thread.. I should have listened to Tuthmosis' advice instead of Mixx.

I confronted him directly back then, and that made him mad.


I had a real comeback at this place this year- made a huge effort to be more considerate. It appeared as if this guy was gone. A lot of friends of mine were actually recently hired to work staff and security. This guy told me that he forwarded a picture of me to the entire staff.

He was was very vague in the letter and said that my behavior "was causing other customers to leave" and that he didn't have to explain.

I wrote back asking him what had happened.

If there was a complaint from a girl, she would have told the bouncer or bartender (my buddies), and they would have said something to me.

I really think this guy has a vendetta against me. I guess I rub some people the wrong way.

As it is, I'm banned for life from this place. I emailed my friends who work there and they were all taken aback and said they are still cool with me.

Post: #65

(12-19-2013 04:40 AM)soup Wrote:  Now that asshole bartender is back and he is managing, and he's had me permanently banned.

The guy actually looked me up on facebook and wrote a multi-paragraphed letter to me about why I was banned.

I had a real comeback at this place this year- made a huge effort to be more considerate. It appeared as if this guy was gone. A lot of friends of mine were actually recently hired to work staff and security. This guy told me that he forwarded a picture of me to the entire staff.

Think about it this way, this guy had the time to sit down and spend hours between finding you on facebook, writing a paragraph, and then sending your pic out. You spend that time minding your own business, finding and banging out attractive women. Who is the loser in this story?

I don't know if there is a way for you to get back into the bar, but karma has a way with guys like this.

Post: #66

Yeah I work at a club. If you really have an annoying bartender/bouncer/etc. giving you shit, just talk to the management. Bartenders, VIP hosts and go-go girls are some of the few people that can get you 86'd from a club, if they don't like you, but they can't permanently ban you unless you are doing something retarded, like stealing stuff, groping girls without consent, acting a fool, etc. on a consistent basis.

You can still salvage it by hitting up the head of security there and see what he says, and it helps if you have a few friends that work there/ or frequent table service people there. In this case, hes just being an ass. Security/owner has the final say in who stays and goes.

Post: #67

Wow that's some hilariously weak shit from the bartender.

Any chance you can copy and paste the letter for us to see?

At this point it doesn't seem like there's any possibility of reasoning with him, or those above him if he's managing.

Perhaps work with friends on the inside for some fun revenge?

Or just start locking down other spots and put it behind you.

Post: #68

(12-19-2013 04:40 AM)soup Wrote:  Now that asshole bartender is back and he is managing, and he's had me permanently banned.

The guy actually looked me up on facebook and wrote a multi-paragraphed letter to me about why I was banned.

Looking back on this thread.. I should have listened to Tuthmosis' advice instead of Mixx.

I confronted him directly back then, and that made him mad.


I had a real comeback at this place this year- made a huge effort to be more considerate. It appeared as if this guy was gone. A lot of friends of mine were actually recently hired to work staff and security. This guy told me that he forwarded a picture of me to the entire staff.

He was was very vague in the letter and said that my behavior "was causing other customers to leave" and that he didn't have to explain.

I wrote back asking him what had happened.

If there was a complaint from a girl, she would have told the bouncer or bartender (my buddies), and they would have said something to me.

I really think this guy has a vendetta against me. I guess I rub some people the wrong way.

As it is, I'm banned for life from this place. I emailed my friends who work there and they were all taken aback and said they are still cool with me.

A petty bully. It was probably over something petty, like a girl he had a crush on said you were "cute." I think this is what happened to me with some fatass who lived in my condo development I've written about here. This woman he was chatting up kept flirting with me and he decided to give me shit (ironic, because I wouldn't look at the old bat he was into, anyway).

One thing I've learned over the years is that when someone doesn't like you -- from a parent to a teacher to a woman -- it's usually because they're envious of something. And it's often something you wouldn't have even thought about. Shakespeare wrote about envy consuming a man in "Othello."

To tie this back to what we talk about here a lot, feminism is little more than the mass envy of men and an attempt to cut them down because of it. Men shouldn't envy other men, though. It's unmanly. Men work as teams, which is why there is much more variance amongst men's physicality and intelligence than women. Metaphorically speaking, if some other guy seems the better runner, well, you're probably the better tackler. Or something.

Again, sorry for the digressive rant but I'm finding here that small issues often open avenues to discuss larger problems.

Post: #69

Hindsight's always 20-20, but I have to agree, Tuthmosis's suggestion was the way to go. He had the power to throw you out, and the best way to get at him was indirectly... subverting and discrediting him through his peers and higher ups.

Either way though, an important aspect of game mentality is always be 100% willing to take a loss. Might have been a great bar, but you live in NYC man... there are hundreds others. With what you know now, you can establish rapport with the new bar staff, and your game is obviously more polished/natural-like than when you started there. It has to be smoother sailing from here.

Great thread, by the way.

Post: #70

(12-19-2013 04:57 AM)All or Nothing Wrote:  

(12-19-2013 04:40 AM)soup Wrote:  Now that asshole bartender is back and he is managing, and he's had me permanently banned.

The guy actually looked me up on facebook and wrote a multi-paragraphed letter to me about why I was banned.

I had a real comeback at this place this year- made a huge effort to be more considerate. It appeared as if this guy was gone. A lot of friends of mine were actually recently hired to work staff and security. This guy told me that he forwarded a picture of me to the entire staff.

Think about it this way, this guy had the time to sit down and spend hours between finding you on facebook, writing a paragraph, and then sending your pic out. You spend that time minding your own business, finding and banging out attractive women. Who is the loser in this story?

I don't know if there is a way for you to get back into the bar, but karma has a way with guys like this.

If I was a betting man I'd bet the pregnant girl mentioned earlier in the thread has already left him/broke him emotionally. Probably on the day he wrote that facebook message.

Post: #71

Here's letter:

Hi Soup-

You may remember me as a bartender who kicked you out a couple years ago. Now I manage this place. I was (sort of) surprised to see you here again after I had been gone for a while, but I figured that maybe you had changed your ways. Apparently I was mistaken.

I'm contacting you to let you know that you are, once again, no longer welcome at Xxx. Your behavior makes other customers leave, and I'd rather have those customers here. I don't think you really need much of an explanation, since I know you have been warned multiple times. Plus being banned before might have theoretically had some effect on you.

How long are you banned from xxx? Let's just go with "indefinitely." Don't waste your time coming back in a week or two to see if this has blown over.

I have forwarded your photo to the entire staff, so please do us all a favor and find somewhere else to hang out.

Post: #72

So what do you wanna do now? Fuck with them? Or do you want to just forget about it. I bet there are all kinds of shenanigans you can get up to if you report them to the city for various "violations." Seems not worth the energy though.

Post: #73

It's one of these situations:

Let Him Win

vs.

Don't Waste Your Energy

Post: #74

(12-19-2013 10:33 AM)soup Wrote:  Here's letter:

Hi Soup-

You may remember me as a bartender who kicked you out a couple years ago. Now I manage this place. I was (sort of) surprised to see you here again after I had been gone for a while, but I figured that maybe you had changed your ways. Apparently I was mistaken.

I'm contacting you to let you know that you are, once again, no longer welcome at Xxx. Your behavior makes other customers leave, and I'd rather have those customers here. I don't think you really need much of an explanation, since I know you have been warned multiple times. Plus being banned before might have theoretically had some effect on you.

How long are you banned from xxx? Let's just go with "indefinitely." Don't waste your time coming back in a week or two to see if this has blown over.

I have forwarded your photo to the entire staff, so please do us all a favor and find somewhere else to hang out.

What a tool, that's such a funny line.

You know he's writing that thinking he's witty and acting like he just dropped a bomb on you.

This reminds me of the bouncer who sent me threatening messages through Facebook when he just happened to see his fat gf come talk to me at a club.

Didn't even bother telling him I wouldn't tap that, no matter how many drinks I had in me.

Post: #75

(12-19-2013 11:13 AM)Menace Wrote:  So what do you wanna do now? Fuck with them? Or do you want to just forget about it. I bet there are all kinds of shenanigans you can get up to if you report them to the city for various "violations." Seems not worth the energy though.

Well, the fucked up thing is that, like I said in an early post, I'm friendly with other bartenders, the busboy, and most of the security from other jobs of mine (I play music for a living).

I like all those guys, and don't want to fuck up anything for them.

I was concerned that this guy was sending my photo around to everybody, and that it would some how affect my work life or if I ever see anyone at another venue.

Truth is that these guys have been there the whole time watching me, and I was even told by friend that manages the place that it was my house and they'd get back if anyone tried to fuck with me etc. That's why I've been making a real effort to go in and be as diplomatic as possible.

For example, I talked with that friend who is high up there about other guys coming in and trying to physically push me out of the way to get a drink, or how they lean on me at the bar. He told me that the best thing to do was to just move to another part of the bar.

I loathed having to do that, but it happened on Monday when I was talking with a chick that I brought there. Some guy started leaning on me. I politely told him to back off, and kept doing. I actually showed my friend who was bar-tending what happened. He gave me what seemed like an annoyed look (at me) and suggested I move.

I took my girl, and we moved to the other side of the bar.

Simple. No drama.

Then I got this letter the next day.

---

This place used to be known as a rowdy hook-up bar, but the quality of girls has diminished greatly in the last few years. It's usually a sea of fives, and has even become a sausage fest on some nights.