Post: #26

(11-23-2011 09:25 PM)Gmac Wrote:  If he's a good, popular bartender and a moneymaker, the management isn't going to give a flying fuck that he's cockblocking you.

This is true. But, odds are that's just one of many bartenders there. Plus, it's not like he'd be asking to have the guy fired. He's just alerting the management that he'd like to have a talk with him and that he's not causing any trouble. The management will care if one their staff members is scaring away or harassing paying customers (plural). He is a regular. Plus, he's not trying to leverage the big-spender angle. This is all just due-diligence so you can check the bartender without fear that he's going to get bounced or banned.

What do you propose that he do instead?

Post: #27

Tuth, I have to disagree with you. NYC and LA are way different. These dudes at the bar are more than likely very, very tight. If you complain they will think you are a bitch. The only thing that may come out for the good is if the owner told them to "baby" him. If that makes him happy fine.

I'd prefer to crash and burn but still think he was messing around.

Soup, If he fucks with you again PM me. I will send someone to test him. I'm Curious now

Post: #28

(11-23-2011 09:38 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  Tuth, I have to disagree with you. NYC and LA are way different. These dudes at the bar are more than likely very, very tight. If you complain they will think you are a bitch. The only thing that may come out for the good is if the owner told them to "baby" him. If that makes him happy fine.

Mech: That's where you're misunderstanding me. He's not complaining. He's just showing due deference to the management and asking to speak to the guy. If the management is good-old-boys style, as you describe, they will respect that he's handling his business and give him the go-ahead, if it's more corporate and professional, they will ask him not to and handle the situation. This is win-win.

That said, if you have contacts in NYC that can handle this for him, that trumps everything.

Post: #29

Ok, This is a big city. I assume that he's not at any type of corporate place. Tuth, if it's not.. talking to the management means you are not handling you business. You are bringing them into some shit they could care less about and they will look down on you for that.

Ok Soup, Where is it at? Queens? I say Queens!

Post: #30

(11-23-2011 09:58 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  Ok, This is a big city. I assume that he's not at any type of corporate place. Tuth, if it's not.. talking to the management means you are not handling you business. You are bringing them into some shit they could care less about and they will look down on you for that.

Ok Soup, Where is it at? Queens? I say Queens!

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I think it's all about delivery. There's definitely a bitch way to do it and a correct way to do it. It's just like game in this way. Frankly, crowd control on competing males is the less-known part of game--as we all know.

I handle my business in all sorts of ways, depending on the situation. Sometimes I go head-up with a guy and get ready to scrap, if it comes down to that. Other times, I use words or my surroundings, when I know the situation is more nuanced and requires some delicateness. I've had to do things like this before, and have come out on top--with my reputation intact, or enhanced, and with the results I was looking for.

I didn't "complain," I gathered an audience.

Post: #31

I think there is more to this story than what was told here. Which , what and where means a lot. In some places the Tuth model will work (TGI's next to mall) and some it wont (Bar X south Bronx)

Need more info Soup!

Post: #32

It's one of the big hipster meat-market bars in Bklyn.

Tuth, even if I can't get away with it, your systemic thinking is very helpful.

El Mechanico- thanks for offering the props.

I think Gmac is right about all this. The staff are essentially a family and they all run the place together. The patrons are cattle.

I don't get the mentality of looking down on your regulars. Ok, so maybe he thinks I'm a caddy philanderer, but A) I'm a consistent patron, B) why do you give a shit? We all live there together, man.

Post: #33

Sounds lke a hater. Honestly, I would just ask him straight up "what's your problem?"

Post: #34

Quote:I think Gmac is right about all this. The staff are essentially a family and they all run the place together. The patrons are cattle.

I win!

Quote:I don't get the mentality of looking down on your regulars. Ok, so maybe he thinks I'm a caddy philanderer, but A) I'm a consistent patron, B) why do you give a shit? We all live there together, man.

I usually take a different approach when I start frequenting a new bar. If I go out to a bar or take a girl to one for a date, I make sure I already have the place on at least partial lockdown. Meaning, I've been to the bar a few times, introduced myself and made friends with a few of the bouncers/bartenders, over-tipped on my drinks, and always kept your cool (aka not starting fights, embarrassing yourself, or getting kicked out).

I run hospitality game on the staff since I was in the industry for a long time... I know how to befriend them. Once you've done that, you'll rarely run into the problem of cockblocking white knight bartenders. You can be a regular and still go unnoticed by the staff. Make friends and this problem disappears. Might be too late in your case with this particular bar, but you can always work the rest of the staff first.

I prefer this to the "dude what's your problem!" approach. You tend to put them on the defensive immediately and get yourself in a worse spot than you started.

If you couldn't tell, I'm all about the networking. Infiltrate and you quickly become part of that family. Once the bartenders start comping you drinks or doing shots with you for free, you know you're in. Just don't forget to overtip... this can all be done in one night.

Post: #35

(11-24-2011 07:14 PM)Gmac Wrote:  

Quote:I think Gmac is right about all this. The staff are essentially a family and they all run the place together. The patrons are cattle.

I win!

Quote:I don't get the mentality of looking down on your regulars. Ok, so maybe he thinks I'm a caddy philanderer, but A) I'm a consistent patron, B) why do you give a shit? We all live there together, man.

I usually take a different approach when I start frequenting a new bar. If I go out to a bar or take a girl to one for a date, I make sure I already have the place on at least partial lockdown. Meaning, I've been to the bar a few times, introduced myself and made friends with a few of the bouncers/bartenders, over-tipped on my drinks, and always kept your cool (aka not starting fights, embarrassing yourself, or getting kicked out).

I run hospitality game on the staff since I was in the industry for a long time... I know how to befriend them. Once you've done that, you'll rarely run into the problem of cockblocking white knight bartenders. You can be a regular and still go unnoticed by the staff. Make friends and this problem disappears. Might be too late in your case with this particular bar, but you can always work the rest of the staff first.

I prefer this to the "dude what's your problem!" approach. You tend to put them on the defensive immediately and get yourself in a worse spot than you started.

If you couldn't tell, I'm all about the networking. Infiltrate and you quickly become part of that family. Once the bartenders start comping you drinks or doing shots with you for free, you know you're in. Just don't forget to overtip... this can all be done in one night.

Had one of the best (and possibly last with the elders) thanksgivings with my family tonight. Drank a lot of wine, but am not trying to wreck liver (been out a few days in a row).

Show up at the place. Dude is there. They have customer accessible water coolers, so I poured myself some in liu of getting a beer.. just to chill with drinking for a bit.

I'm hanging at the bar. He comes over and tells me I have to leave because I haven't bought any booze and that the owner needs to pay rent blah blah...

He brings the bouncer over. Again, I'm a regular at this bar. I asked the bouncer where the manager was and bouncer says "I'm just taking orders."

Mixx, I kind of did what you said and asked the bartender "Do you have a problem with me?"

Him: "Yes,"

Then he went on to list:

1) "I know this is a hook-up bar, but you come in here and get drunk and then act like a predator and talk to drunk girls in a weird way"

2) "You take up too much space at the bar" There was a time when I had my guitar and it was taking up space and he told to move it. I moved it.

3) "You don't tip well."

I said, "1) whatever," then I told him that he didn't do buy-backs after I started giving him higher tips.

Then I ordered a diet coke, and he didn't serve me. The bouncer walked off. I got a girl to order me the diet coke from the other bartender.

Then some guy came up and started talking to me. He was nice and seemed to know the staff. We got into a long conversation. He knew the bartender. I told him what happened, and he told me that the bartender has been known to extemporaneously say/do shit (like if a customer tips in change, he'll throw it back at their forehead), but was surprised by my story.

Gmac, I started at this place before I formally got into game, so they know parts of my older beta side. I've since snagged I-don't-remember how many girls there. Anyway, they know I'm not trying to be a kiss-ass white knight. So, I can't go preventative on this and pay my way out of this. I'd feel like shit if I gave this guy more money than the base tip.

However, I used to work at the owner's other spot, and might try to get in touch with him to tell him. That said, the owner seems kind of laissez faire, because, like the bouncer insinuated, the staff runs the place.

I ended up staying and not ordering from him anymore, closed out the bar, no girls.

So, maybe I sometimes seem a little weird or intense. But, I connect with some of the girls there very quickly.

If it makes a difference, I found out that the bartender just had a baby with one of the other bartenders.

Post: #36

Sounds like you need a new bar. That's WAY too much sissified drama for me.

If you're lucky, he'll be gone in 6-12 months so you can return and start more fresh.

Post: #37

So this dude basically just bullies hipsters around if he doesn't get his way? He's not a hipster is he? He throws change at people?

Post: #38

Drink lots of water, urinate in a pint glass, tip the glass over his head, get a new bar.

No matter what he does, he will never overcome being the bartender who got piss tipped all over him.

Forever stamped beta.

Post: #39

El Mec, that's what I heard. He's an aging hipster.

Gmac, again you're right. I don't want drama. I'm not sure the other bartenders give a shit about me swooping, and I'd like to keep going to this place. I'm still getting my game together and I've made an ass/creep out of myself in front of them numerous times, but this place is known as a rowdy bar, and I've witnessed patrons doing a lot more "worse" things than me getting blown out or kiss closing, etc.

Post: #40

great thread

Post: #41

If you are getting shit from a bartender, don't go to the bar at all. You're fighting a losing battle because the bartender is usually the de facto boss of the establishment's management.

The only way I could see this conceivably going in your favor is if it's a big bar size-wise. Bartenders at those places are usually expendable and a complaint to the owner, if he's present, will usually end with the bartender getting reprimanded.

Post: #42

The guy is not white knighting.

He is tooling you.

Their are a million AMOG threads on the internet. Check out the advice there.

Post: #43

I had a bartender once that called me "Romeo" in front of my date when we came in early evening to get a drink and dropping hints about me always being at the bar hitting on girls. He said it again the next couple times I went in, so I played it off a little and started calling him Juliet every time I saw him (kinda lame but it was the first thing I came up with and just stuck). So it became a back and forth joke with a real undercurrent of animosity.

And I was a good tipper b4 this happened.

Then he tried to heckle me in about it one time in front of my brother, trying to act like I'd seized on him calling me Romeo because I liked it or something. When the truth was I was trying not to get pissed and blow up at the guy for being such an obvious hater. I probably should have called him out on it a little more directly but that place was really known for power-trips and one of a small few places in town with good-looking college girls.

Haven't been to that bar in years but thinking about going in a few nights. Hopefully he's grown out of the doucheness a bit because I'd hardly be surprised if he was still there...

Good luck with the guy that's singling you out though, OP. It's real hard to get on the good side of a power-tripper like that without having to suck up. By the sound of him, it does not sound like a fun place for you to be hanging out unless you find some way to resolve it. I used to be a bartender and it blows my mind that people like this would even bother working in bars.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #44

Personally, I'd go to the police and report him for harassment.

Post: #45

(11-25-2011 10:46 AM)T and A Man Wrote:  Drink lots of water, urinate in a pint glass, tip the glass over his head, get a new bar.

No matter what he does, he will never overcome being the bartender who got piss tipped all over him.

Forever stamped beta.

Hahaha, I like this. I'd only consider it if I knew I would never be able to go back, and they didn't know any of my details.

Post: #46

Beyond Borders,

That's what my bartender friend said as well.

I have an affinity for this punky/hipster meat market bar- it's where I cut my teeth, and is kind of like the kindergarten of pickup around here. It's huge, and has a rep as being the one of the best hook-up spots- the kind of place where girls go to net guys (me) for SNLs. It's also logistically situated well. There are 3-7 bartenders working in rotation at three bar stations, so I can probably just avoid him on the busy nights. I know from an inside source that they've gossiped about me.

The more I've been getting into game, the more friction I've come up against in general. I think as a beta, you are not a threat, and as an alpha, no one will fuck with you, but there is a firewall of hate in the middle.

Post: #47

(11-23-2011 09:20 PM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  

(11-23-2011 08:49 PM)Gmac Wrote:  I agree with Mech. Don't bring management into it, you will only end up pissing him off more.

Fuck that guy. Who cares if he gets pissed? He's already hating on soup and scrambling his game. What's he going to do: fuck it up more? Right now he cockblocks him at his whim. He's basically a gatekeeper to his pussy. Fuck. That. Shit.

The point here is to neutralize the bartender's power: his ability to go to the bouncers or management to get him booted, or even banned, from the establishment. If you confront him straight (which, of course is what you would do will a real man), this guy is enough of a little bitch to get you kicked out and that's it. Confrontation or question of his fake-ass "authority" is liable to "piss him off" too.

To the bouncers and management, you'd just be another semi-drunk asshole who they had to kick out that week. You can't scare the guy by trying to intimidate him with your alphaness, because he's obviously power-tripping on the little bit of influence he has in that place. He's confident behind that counter. The best move is to take the legs out from under him (the power of his post), and then confront him when he's unarmed. At that point, you're known to the management and you're not going to get kicked out no-questions-asked. New York is no different than LA or any other big city I've spent time in, in my opinion.

Show respect, show manliness, and--most importantly--be strategic, and you will get a lot further. This works in any place.

Should you ever use violence in situations like this or just make him feel very ashamed? Judging from what soup said, this guy could easilly be manipulated by girls.

If i was soup i would have found a fattie and tell her that this bartender is in love with her, then befriend a really hot girl and make him go to to a room in a night, put handcuffs on him and then tell the hottie to retrieve from the room and release the fattie in the room. Lol just kidding

Post: #48

(11-28-2011 08:42 AM)Lumiere Wrote:  The guy is not white knighting.

He is tooling you.

Their are a million AMOG threads on the internet. Check out the advice there.

I agree, this is not a white knight scenario, this guy is playing you for a fool, and using it to look alpha with other women. He obviously sees you as a threat to "his clients" which we all know is bullshit and is just trying to fuck the same girls you are.

Bottom Line: Unless you live in a town where that is the only bar around, go to another bar. Changing up venues is always good to keep your game on point. Or, isolate girls AWAY from the bar, where he cannot easily get to you.

Why the fuck are you bringing a guitar to a bar anyways unless you are there to play as paid performer? There are better props to use, leave the guitar in your car seat, and have a girl very curious when she sees it hoping in your ride.

Mixx

Post: #49

(12-14-2011 12:42 PM)MiXX Wrote:  

(11-28-2011 08:42 AM)Lumiere Wrote:  The guy is not white knighting.

He is tooling you.

Their are a million AMOG threads on the internet. Check out the advice there.

I agree, this is not a white knight scenario, this guy is playing you for a fool, and using it to look alpha with other women. He obviously sees you as a threat to "his clients" which we all know is bullshit and is just trying to fuck the same girls you are.

Bottom Line: Unless you live in a town where that is the only bar around, go to another bar. Changing up venues is always good to keep your game on point. Or, isolate girls AWAY from the bar, where he cannot easily get to you.

Why the fuck are you bringing a guitar to a bar anyways unless you are there to play as paid performer? There are better props to use, leave the guitar in your car seat, and have a girl very curious when she sees it hoping in your ride.

Mixx

I have been hitting up other bars, but would like to have this one as an option because girls congregate there more than any other bar in the vicinity.

Post: #50

(12-14-2011 01:19 PM)soup Wrote:  I have been hitting up other bars, but would like to have this one as an option because girls congregate there more than any other bar in the vicinity.

Then your only safe option is to isolate women AWAY from the bartenders main area of operation, even if its a remote corner table.

Star experimenting with sending notes to girls in a playful manner....like challenging her to a dartboard game, tic-tac-toe game, anything to get a playful vibe going and moving her AWAY from enemy lines.

Hell even the old Hitch move of pretending she is a waitress there, putting money in her hands and requesting drinks, and walking away so she can follow will work in this scenario.


Mixx