Post: #1

A lot of players hate on the Mystery Method. Yet from my knowledge of the PUA scene back in its heyday, the Mystery Method worked really well. Even borderline aspie nerds were getting lays from it (read the mASF/Attraction Forums archives circa 2006-07). But overexposure did the community in - The Game was published, the VH1 show came out, lots of amateur PUAs got into the scene and guys started getting called out on the routines. Then a bunch of "PUA gurus" out to cash in flooded the market, the frauds and hucksters got exposed and the whole scene fell apart.

Roissy breaks it down here:

Quote:http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2009/11/1...e-is-dead/

I have heard now from a number of men who have participated in seminars and workshops that the pickup instructors are essentially relying on their good looks for in-field demonstration. Worse, they are inculcating students with a steady stream of half-baked “inner game” motivational shibboleths that do them absolutely no good when face to face with women. And they are slowly getting away from teaching the routines, tactics, logistics, psychological ploys and body language improvements that are at the heart of seduction.

My advice to the seduction community, and take this advice in the generous spirit it is given, is to get back to the basics. That means returning to the *science* of seduction, and abandoning the nebulous *art* of seduction. Natural game is a fool’s errand destined to fail for all but… well… naturals. There’s a reason I frequently cite Mystery’s original masterpiece “The Mystery Method”. Its routines may be dated, its focus too club-oriented, and its acronyms nerdy, but word for word it is the best compendium and most effective strategy sheet for meeting, seducing, and fucking women hotter than what you are accustomed to fucking. An example from my own life: During a two year stretch when I was using almost TO THE LETTER what I learned from Mystery Method and online forums to seduce women, I banged more babes than I did at any other time of my life.

With the seduction community now having morphed into the seduction industry, every self-professed pickup guru and their grandpa is peddling their own PUA method. Guys are getting pulled in every direction following different gurus with different schools of thought. Nobody really knows what they're doing anymore.

Ironically, this means that there are far fewer guys out there nowadays still using the original old school field-tested MM routines that have been proven to work.

Moreover, the vast majority of college girls today have never heard this stuff before:

- The Game was a bestseller in 2005. College girls were pre-teens at the time.
- The Mystery Method peaked around 2007-2008. College girls were still in high school.
- Outside of the US no one gets VH1, so most have never seen or even heard of The Pickup Artist TV show.
- With far fewer guys using routines these days, there's less of a chance of getting called out.

I'll cite an example from my personal experience. I've started running day game using Mystery Method tactics with relative success (/thread-6950.html). I've used several classic routines to great effect - the "is kissing cheating" opener, C vs. U smile, finger length etc. This stuff is crack to chicks. It's an emotional rollercoaster, a psychological mindfuck for girls. Moreover, this stuff is even more devastating during day game when a guy has complete control of the interaction, and your girl isn't distracted by cockblocks, smartphones, loud music etc.

And of the hundred or so college girls my buddy and I have approached using smoothly delivered pre-rehearsed material over the last few months, we've been called out.... once.

If routines are netting you a steady supply of digits, if your follow-up text/phone game is tight, and if you have natural game to carry the interaction forward on the date and get the bang, why not use canned stuff that works during the initial interaction?

As Chris Rock put it astutely, a woman has made up her mind about whether she'll fuck you within the first 10 minutes of meeting you. You want to maximize your utility from your approaches, get into that fuck-worthy pile, get the most bangs for the least time invested.

- You can play a Paul Janka style numbers game, spending hours and hours approaching hundreds of women, invest minimally in the interaction, and collect lots of flakey numbers.
- You can be the guy that invests heavily in the interaction, wastes a lot of time on one particular girl, and lands in the friend-zone - the dreaded "20 minute set to nowhere".

Your rap over the first 5-10 minutes is key. This is all the more so during day game cold approaches when there's little margin for error, and the slightest hint of hesitation and awkwardness can send the girl running. And even more so for average-looking guys who can't coast on their looks as a source of value.

So going natural on a girl means you get 1 in 5 numbers while using scripted routines gets you 1 in 3, why not use what'll get you more lays at the of the day? Especially in 2011 when the odds of getting called out are next to none?

Post: #2

I think routines help for guys who are starting out and makes them get results faster. It seems natural game takes more work for a guy who's not naturally social.


Natural game is far more entertaining though, since you're not running through a checklist but you're being spontaneous which leads to a lot of funny situations.





I'm doing some sales callls now for which I'm gonna have to stick to routines. IF I had gotten into sales before hand I'd probably have done routines based game with great success. However, I can only focus on one thing at a time while chatting to a girl. I can't bother remembering all those lines. The maximum I can bother with is something like a little closing routine that I customize each time(like GALNUC). There are also stories that I like that I repeat.

However, structures and an occasional closing routine can strongly help your game(like Roosh's Day Bang model). I take aspects of Day Bang in and it really helps. For example, the concept of elderly chat is lethal. Its absolutely amazing in getting a girl comfortable in opening up to you. Thanks to Day Bang I've learned to just talk about stupid shit for minutes on end with the realization that I don't have to be amazingly interesting.
I do that in class and its really effective in a social circle situation.

Post: #3

TK is right on. Routines are really only good for when you're learning game when your natural conversational abilities aren't very solid.

Post: #4

Use whatever works for you. I have developed my own "routines" over the last few years. Gotta be able to say things that get a girls attention and maybe engage her imagination/emotions. If you can't do that on your own, maybe you should use a routine..

Post: #5

Most of us are not selling anything.

If routines work, who would tell you not to use them?

I don't use them, because my stuff is better - for me. Might not work for you. But since I'm not selling anything, use my stuff or use MM routines. I don't care.

Post: #6

I'm still of the mindset that a great deal of what normally comes out of our mouths are "routines". This can be anecdotes that we repeat when we meet new people, a particular line of humor that we employ (i.e. Seinfeld's "what's with X?"), etc.

A routine is anything you say that isn't 100% thought up on the fly, and this stuff makes up more of what we say than we think it does.


I don't care for the idea of spitting out a whole rehearsed stack, but I like the idea of taking routines that have worked for others, personalizing them, and using them as a "toolkit" in certain situations, modifying where necessary to fit the situation you find yourself in.

But, as my signature says, what do I know?

Post: #7

The routines work. However:

- If they do not match your real personality then as soon as you run out of your routines or got a comeback and have to improvise, you're fucked up. You may actually be really cool on your own, but if the contrast between the scripted routines and your typical talk is too obvious, you'll come out as a fake.

- A good popular routine gets around quickly, and can get you into the "You're the third guy tonight who said that to me" to "I read that in the pickup book, this is lame". Sure, a seasoned player can easily handle it with something like "Hey, you don't need to read pickup books to attract guys. You're cute enough as you are. Just be cool.l" or some other things, but for a newbie it may be a devastating blow.

- If your routine uses a made-up story, you need to be very careful in your conversation later. It is easy to recite someone's funny story about swimming in Fountain De Trevi in Italy during your last year vacation, and then thirty minutes later saying that you changed your job and didn't have a vacation last year.

Post: #8

Is there anywhere online I can see a few examples of routines that work? I wouldn't mind being clued up on a couple but I don't even know where to start.

Post: #9

I think everyone here uses routines to some extent; if you've ever told the same story twice, that's a routine. The difference is a matter of degree, not kind.

One of the major sources of improvement in game is trial and error: approaching a lot of women and learning which material gets a good response. Once you have enough experience doing approaches you develop a repertoire that you know will consistently get you results because it's worked in the past. Guess what? Those things you do with your body language, stories you tell, answers you give to questions, and conversational threads you pursue are all "routines." Just because you didn't get them out of a book written by a guy who paints his nails black doesn't make them any less so.

With routines that you get from other people, again the key is to use trial and error. Some things will be congruent with your personality and others won't. I use Style's 5 questions game all the time because it's a fun, short routine that has gotten me positive results in the past; I don't use C vs. U smiles or the cube because when I've tried them it's come off as cheesy and didn't work. Eventually you've hit on so many girls that your toolbox gets massive and you have something that's been shown to work in virtually every common situation. It's important to be able to improvise, but why re-invent the wheel when your previous experience is giving you a ready-made, time-tested solution?

Post: #10

I think I saw this cross-posted on Seddit.

Post: #11

(10-27-2011 01:58 PM)gringochileno Wrote:  With routines that you get from other people, again the key is to use trial and error. Some things will be congruent with your personality and others won't. I use Style's 5 questions game all the time because it's a fun, short routine that has gotten me positive results in the past; I don't use C vs. U smiles or the cube because when I've tried them it's come off as cheesy and didn't work. Eventually you've hit on so many girls that your toolbox gets massive and you have something that's been shown to work in virtually every common situation. It's important to be able to improvise, but why re-invent the wheel when your previous experience is giving you a ready-made, time-tested solution?

Where can I read about the routines you talk about?

Post: #12

(10-28-2011 01:29 PM)KingofScotland Wrote:  

(10-27-2011 01:58 PM)gringochileno Wrote:  With routines that you get from other people, again the key is to use trial and error. Some things will be congruent with your personality and others won't. I use Style's 5 questions game all the time because it's a fun, short routine that has gotten me positive results in the past; I don't use C vs. U smiles or the cube because when I've tried them it's come off as cheesy and didn't work. Eventually you've hit on so many girls that your toolbox gets massive and you have something that's been shown to work in virtually every common situation. It's important to be able to improvise, but why re-invent the wheel when your previous experience is giving you a ready-made, time-tested solution?

Where can I read about the routines you talk about?

C vs. U is in the book The Game. I think there are Youtube videos where he explains how to do the 5 questions game and the cube. I've never been called out on it, but realize that Mystery/Neil Strauss is the most mainstream of "PUA" stuff that's out there, so there is that risk. Most of the "routines" I use are just stuff I did spontaneously that worked, so I made a mental note of it and used it again.

Post: #13

I think that because we're immersed in reading about it, we overestimate how prevalant this stuff is out there. I'd sure as hell never heard of the Cube until like 2 months ago or whatever, when I started reading Roosh's blog and other community stuff. I know a guy who uses the Cube all the time, never been called out.

He's been called out for saying pre-rehearsed shit mind you, because you can tell from his delivery that he's just stacking together memorized material, but girls don't recognize the actual content of the routine from anywhere.

Post: #14

My main problem is also that I can't remember any of that shit. My mind just works differently... I'm much better on the fly. I have a few interesting or funny stories that I tend to bring up on first dates, but that's the extent of it.

Post: #15

I watched the 5 questions routine on YouTube and seems like something I could remember and use, might even get a laugh from it. The Cube, however, is long and intensive and I'd struggle to remember what each 'scenario' is supposed to mean and I'm not sure most girls round here would entertain me for so long with such a long, winded, and involved story. Maybe I am wrong but it's not something I feel comfortable with at at all. Doesn't feel natural at all. I've learnt something at least, any other good recommended routines I can youtube?

Post: #16

The Mystery Method routines were part of the 'fake it till you make' philosophy and were meant to be "training wheels" to practice your delivery and body language until you were able to come up with real routines from your own life. The end goal was to actually become that high value person over time.

Anyway, mystery method gets a lot of criticism, but I think the genius of it was that it identified "stages" that every relationship has to move through in order to lead to the bang.

Open > Attraction > Comfort > Seduction

The basic framework and principles of attraction will always be true, and the science behind it is solid (evo psych, and social compliance theory). Anyway, it's too bad that mystery has become such a caricature because a lot of his material comes off as unnatural for most guys.

In the long run, it's best to come up with your own material and your own stories

Post: #17

My main problem with routines is that they allow for zero flexibility. I mainly rely on my wit which requires me to dance like a butterfly and sting like a bee. General PUA routines breaks that lightning fast exchange and feel phoney.

Post: #18

I am a fan of basic routines. Then you build on them with your own variations, but in their time, it was FANTASTIC conversation until everyone and his brother were using them.

I still swear by basic routines, where I put on my spin depending on where I am and with whom. As long as I don't get too trashed and I stick to them, the lay comes. Why fix something that works?

Post: #19

and why not use things that fit you?

as i recall my best interactions like the absolute BEST ONES were the ones where i had nothing in mind. no thoughts. i was in absolute "flow mode". usually i went in with something situational/spontaneous, conversation was silly & fun, i led shamelessly and in general these interactions were quite smooth as it was mutual thing. even shittests and teasing was coming from the place of fun and excitement instead of bitchiness. as tim would say.. just woooooooooosh : ))

and at first it was kind of mindfuck cause i couldn't believe it. how it was even possible to do it without any techniques etc? well it is possible and in fact it's the most potent to actually be outside your head and let that shit flow out of you. it's soo fantastic.

sitting in front of screen it might sound scary or weird or intimidating but once it clicks in the real world then nothing can beat that. simple shit like spontaneous "oh you got cool sunglasses.." and grabing them from her head is way more fun than going in with some scripted shit prepared for the specific scenario.

there's also one very cool reason to go full freestyle.. once you have success it makes you undestand and realise over and over again that you must be one fucking cool rad dude to attract some hot girl just by your natural personality alone. then by having more and more success that way it only reinforces that you're awesome and it grows and grows. it's like a positive feedback loop. so once you're in that loop.. you get good result.. that gets you positive reference point.. you feel you're the shit.. that gets you another good result.. another positive reference point.. you feel more badass.. you get another good result.. and it snowballs more. pretty amazing huh

Post: #20

I'm going to learn 5 questions and some other routines and just run them on girls at work, for fun, to see how they go. If they seem to be be receptive I'll try them out on other girls.

Post: #21

i have no idea what's up with it that indirect style. it doesn't make sense to me honestly

at parties.. all i see is hot chicks dancing with each other and nonstop looking around for a man who will step up and kidnap them and blowing out the ones who don't. really : ) that's what i see. and guys who are usually doing it halfspeed create themselves this weird situation where they look more like friends not potential lovers. it's good lesson to watch from the distance how safe approach looks like and how weird it becomes with time and basically what NOT TO DO. going in from the side or whatever is just too watered down too soft

as for daytime.. people are not in social/fun headspace so i know that approach should be quick and have impact. like.. this is the girl i like and she's going somewhere probably in hurry. i know i have to stop her right then and there, make it clear why i stopped her and really takeover her attention for 3-5 minutes (sometimes longer). i'm curious about her i'm approaching for a reason so i gotta snap her out of whatever she's focused on and take over her mind and heart for few minutes. also.. when i go in direct like the whole interaction is charged sexually the tone is set from the get go all the way to the end. if she's not down with that it's ok she will let me know.

scripted stuff? to me it's way more impressive and masculine to just go in with almost nothing. with minimum content and be COMFROTABLE doing that. that says so much about a guy. i noticed that after a couple of "less is more" approaches i go into this mode where my mind is clear which makes the interaction is carried on not by generating specific response with routines but by man-woman vibe where both of us are just being with eachother which builds chemistry. it's more real IMO than generating a couple of laughs with few cocky funny lines.

Post: #22

The Cube is one of my favorites. I use it on every girl. Every time.

Its great for isolation, kino, and compliance testing.

You don't really have to remember too much. I remember: white horse v brown horse; Opaque cube v transparent cube; Small ladder v large ladder.

Most of the time I build those few things and fluff them out with a cold read. I've never once gotten called out on it.

When it comes to remembering the exact routine - I probably deliver it slightly different each time.


Also, if you can't palm read, you need to learn how to palm read. That shit is crack to women.

Also: I've never gotten called out on a canned routine (even the few I use from MM).

Post: #23

I tried the 5 question routine out on a girl at work a few days ago (it worked a treat) then she called over some other girls because she wanted me to try it on them. I was surprised when one of the girls said she already knew the game but couldn't remember exactly how it worked. Someone had played it with her before.

Post: #24

Whether MM is the most successful methodology or not is certainly subjective, but I think it's pretty clear that it was and remains the most innovative. No one else has distilled the chaos of human interaction into an engineered process as thoroughly as Mystery did.

Post: #25

because i never remember the routines when the time comes. I go with something situational and if a broad isn't giving me the feedback I want, politely eject.