Post: #476

Why is someone asking about teaching in the MIDDLE EAST on this forum?

Post: #477

(01-01-2016 05:31 AM)Suits Wrote:  

(12-31-2015 10:45 PM)RaulValdez739 Wrote:  

(12-31-2015 10:29 PM)Suits Wrote:  

(12-31-2015 06:14 PM)RaulValdez739 Wrote:  Is it easy to fake teaching experience on your resume when applying for overseas teaching jobs. Do recruiting agencies/companies/schools actually call to verify? Especially for Middle East positions.

We don't give advice here on how to fake your way through life.

Relax buddy but I was just curious since this has been brought up before on this thread. If you cant contribute, please be silent. Thank you.

Obvious ethical concerns aside, I don't have a major problem with guys stretching the truth on their resume to avoid unjustified discrimination. However, producing a resume that is not a genuine reflection of the job applicant screws everyone.

When it comes to teaching adults, it's perfectly normal for individuals with no teaching experience to show up on day one and be highly entertaining ESL instructors who are well loved by all their students.

This isn't the same thing as being an effective teacher.

It takes skill to be a highly effective teacher and that skill develops over time.

Bumbling your way into a job that you aren't qualified for robs your students of the teacher they deserve, it robs the teacher of the opportunity to learn the ropes doing work that is better fit of for their (no-existent) experience and it robs of the employer of the teacher they thought they were hiring.

The good news is that your apparent lack of knowledge regarding punctuation should give most employers a heads up that not everything is on the up and on.

Again. You give nothing of value.

Post: #478

(01-01-2016 09:01 AM)elcidcampeador Wrote:  Why is someone asking about teaching in the MIDDLE EAST on this forum?

The highest paid positions are there.

Post: #479

I sat and read through all 20 pages on this, some great info being given. Some quick follow-up questions:

Is anyone out in Taiwan at the moment? I'm considering heading out there, but it seems to be unclear if there's a big difference in the quality of job to be found through online listings compared to being there in person? Since I don't have much of a history in teaching English (just a month of conversational English in Russia), I'm comfortable with the fact that I'm not going to get any enviable jobs to start, but I'd like to get as strong a start as possible.

In terms of my own qualifications, I have a Masters in Social/Political Sciences, and I've taught in the subject for several months at a UK university. Is it likely to give me a chance of teaching something similar in Taiwan (or EA/SEA in general), or is the qualified teacher requirement strictly adhered to? Are they mostly only interested in the US curriculum for these jobs?

I don't have any kind of TEFL certificate either, which is one of the reasons I'm looking at Taiwan. I have enough money saved that I could do the CELTA in the region, then fly on to Taiwan and support myself for a month, but it seems like a bit of a gamble as if I come up empty-handed, I'm heading home with almost nothing in the bank. Is the CELTA a necessity from the start, or can I get away with doing a year there, saving more money, and doing a CELTA after the first year?

Final question: With the CELTA, would I have to wait the several weeks to get the certificate before I can use it in job applications, or is providing the institute contact details and the letter showing I've passed alright until it arrives?

Post: #480

I don't know about Taiwan, but I am teaching English in Colombia, and the private schools and Universities look favourably on people with a masters, more so than a person with a bachelor's. If you get the CELTA, I am pretty sure you would have no problem finding a job. As well, the school where I took my CELTA program helped in the job search afterwards. This is in Colombia where organization and efficiency don't exist, I am sure it would be even easier gaining employment over there.

Post: #481

If you guys want to spend a year living in one of the best capitals of Europe while having plenty of leisure and travel time, check out http://www.ttmadrid.com or drop me a PM. I spent a year doing teaching and translating in Madrid and had the best year of my life. It's not a good choice if you want to make a lot of money but if you're set on teaching in Europe as an American, this is the best way to go.

Post: #482

(01-04-2016 02:07 PM)tattiemasher Wrote:  I'm comfortable with the fact that I'm not going to get any enviable jobs to start, but I'd like to get as strong a start as possible.

In terms of my own qualifications, I have a Masters in Social/Political Sciences, and I've taught in the subject for several months at a UK university. Is it likely to give me a chance of teaching something similar in Taiwan (or EA/SEA in general), or is the qualified teacher requirement strictly adhered to? Are they mostly only interested in the US curriculum for these jobs?

I don't have any kind of TEFL certificate either, which is one of the reasons I'm looking at Taiwan. I have enough money saved that I could do the CELTA in the region, then fly on to Taiwan and support myself for a month, but it seems like a bit of a gamble as if I come up empty-handed, I'm heading home with almost nothing in the bank. Is the CELTA a necessity from the start, or can I get away with doing a year there, saving more money, and doing a CELTA after the first year?

Final question: With the CELTA, would I have to wait the several weeks to get the certificate before I can use it in job applications, or is providing the institute contact details and the letter showing I've passed alright until it arrives?

If you are willing to work any job you are offered to get yourself started, you shouldn't be hard up for finding work in Taiwan. Also, if you want to be guaranteed work, come to Beijing. The 120 hour TEFT certificate requirement is a joke, I did an online program for a 140 hour certificate in under 20 hours and for under $100.

Not that Beijing is as nice as Taiwan, but it's a place where you can always get a job teaching English if you don't suck.

My vote is for Taiwan, though. I haven't been there yet, but those who have all have nice things to say.

Post: #483

Thanks for the responses. I've probably overthought and overread on the possible destinations at times, but the more I read, the more it seems that if you just want to get your foot in the door and get some experience, China and Taiwan are great places you can do it, and then look to build your own income (private lessons, tutoring on other subjects etc) once you learn the ropes of the society. It's also good to know that my Masters will give me a few bonus points when it comes to interviews.

I'm tempted to stop off on the way and do a CELTA somewhere cheaper like Thailand, Vietnam or Indonesia, angle for a job at the place for a year, and make the move after that. Anyone done a CELTA in places like these and know if it's easy to pick up a reasonably paid job at the end of the course?

Post: #484

(01-05-2016 05:09 PM)tattiemasher Wrote:  I'm tempted to stop off on the way and do a CELTA somewhere cheaper like Thailand, Vietnam or Indonesia, angle for a job at the place for a year, and make the move after that. Anyone done a CELTA in places like these and know if it's easy to pick up a reasonably paid job at the end of the course?

There are no good paying jobs in the ESL industry. There are jobs that pay horribly and jobs that pay OK. The jobs that pay OK are rarely advertised and they generally recruit through their network of contacts. These jobs are rare enough that they can have their pick of the litter.

The jobs that are advertised that you can pick up when you are starting out pay terribly. They'll impose a 400% markup on what they are paying you and put 300% in their own pocket.

Getting a CELTA probably won't change this, at least in China. Even with high demand, the market is so saturated with competitors that there is an upper limit to what people will pay for English lessons. They pay teachers according to this. They do not care how good you are or how much better you are than other teachers. They will pay you no more than the losers, with or without extra qualifications.

The ESL industry is a minimum requirement industry. They aren't looking for the best teacher they can get. They have a set budget and they want they best teacher they can get while paying nothing more than standard industry salaries, which are pretty pathetic.

Here in Beijing, for a full time job, the industry standard is $36K USD annually.

$36K USD annually in Beijing is barely enough to make ends meet. And good luck paying for an emergency root canal with a dentist who actually speaks English.

Unless you live in the middle of no where, you'll be paying $7K per year to live in a tiny bedroom with two or three other people sharing the same flat. You'll pay a minimum $12K per year to have your own place that isn't substandard.

Sure, that leaves at least $24K left over, which might seem like a lot, but that has to pay for all your food, transportation costs, entertainment. You won't own a car, which is fine when you are a year or two out of university, but have fun living like a teenager when you are in your thirties. Keep in mind that just simply going out for a dinner date followed by a venue change and cocktails in Beijing is going to run you $40. If you do this with a different girl every week for a year, that's going to cost you $2000 annually. Now you are down to $22K and wonder if it's time to join Team No-Appetizers.

If you live cheaply, you could actually save a lot of cash, but you could do the same living with mom and dad for 5 years and living at McDonalds. But who wants that.

To have a comparable lifestyle to what you were used to in your home country, that type of income isn't going to cut it in Beijing. And after two or three years of "adventure" you'll be wanting to have a lifestyle comparable to the one you grew up. It's very easy to get tired of living in an apartment the looks like a jail cell.

However, if you are good at what you do and work for yourself, you could easily clear $75-$100K USD per year here if you are willing to slowly build to that over 6-18 months and work your ass off to achieve it.

Post: #485

^Suits, are these salary figures before or after taxes?

Post: #486

^After Chinese tax, before you fulfil any tax obligations in your own country.

Post: #487

Thanks again for the post Suits, a sobering response for those who might see the ESL industry as a lucrative endeavour in itself.

My own reasons for moving are not to do a hit and run, leaving after a few years with a big wad of cash. I'm hoping to settle there for the long term and build up in private tutoring or business ideas.

CELTA seemed to be a more reliable way of getting a visa in several Asian countries and nothing else, but it's hard to know for sure from a few of the more dedicated ESL forums.

Post: #488

How strict are the companies at checking your degree? I have a 2 year diploma from a college in Canada and I have considered forging a fake BA for the sake of simplicity. They call the school and I did graduate, so it should be okay right? I would prefer to teach in Korea/Japan but not interested in opportunity cost of going back to school for 2 years and spending more money (26 years old).

Do they require a transcript? Is there a downside to this?

Worst case scenario is I get denied and I go teach in Taiwan if I REALLY wanted to teach English in Asia. It looks like Taiwan isn't set in stone at having a 4 year degree.

Is this plausible, or a silly pipe dream being dreamt up?

Post: #489

(02-16-2016 06:07 AM)RustyShackleford Wrote:  How strict are the companies at checking your degree? I have a 2 year diploma from a college in Canada and I have considered forging a fake BA for the sake of simplicity. They call the school and I did graduate, so it should be okay right? I would prefer to teach in Korea/Japan but not interested in opportunity cost of going back to school for 2 years and spending more money (26 years old).

Do they require a transcript? Is there a downside to this?

Worst case scenario is I get denied and I go teach in Taiwan if I REALLY wanted to teach English in Asia. It looks like Taiwan isn't set in stone at having a 4 year degree.

Is this plausible, or a silly pipe dream being dreamt up?

It depends on whether you want to work completely legally, and whether you want to join a big established company or not. If you answered yes to any of those, you'll need to meet the bachelors degree requirement. Having recently gone through the China process, my degree needed to be notarised here and also legalised by the Chinese embassy.

It may be simpler just going to Taiwan if Japan/Korea aren't dealbreakers.

Post: #490

In my opinion, these are the important factors when attempting to somewhat successfully enjoy teaching English abroad while still having some money in your pocket for, well, life.

1) Find a country where local wages are quite low, below the norm
2) Find a country where due to the local wages being low, the cost of living is also low
3) Find a country where teaching English gives you a salary above the average wages of that country
4) Find a country Westerners don't frequent where you'll find less competition both for work and gaming
5) Find a country where the demands for learning English are increasing

Which leads me to Russia and EE being the top destination for teaching English. Bulgaria for example.

1) Average wages are only 400-500 Leva where English teachers should be able to get around 1000 Leva per month
2) Cost of living is dirt cheep outside clothing and electronics
3) Very few foreigners in Bulgaria and unlike a place like China, very few foreigners willing to move there or even interested in moving there
4) Young generation is infatuated with American culture, now learns English is school instead of Russian and need to learn English in the hope of one days leaving Bulgaria for work. The demand to learn English there is growing rapidly.

And I'd wager places like Serbia, Romania, Ukraine and Russia are quite similar.

I personally knew two people who went to Bulgaria to teach English for a 1-2 year stint, fell in love with the place and ended up spending a decade there. Lived comfortably enough to go out on the weekends and travel around Europe some. It's a great launching pad to go to Western/Central Europe for a few days every few months or hop on a dirt cheap flight for an hour and go to Greece for three days.

It's all about supply/demand and the local economy. There's no point in attempting to make a go of it in a relatively low paying job like teaching English in a city/country where the cost of living is high and there's a number of foreigners there do the same thing.

Other place I'd consider is South America, particularly Brazil and Argentina.

Post: #491

(02-16-2016 01:43 PM)tattiemasher Wrote:  It depends on whether you want to work completely legally, and whether you want to join a big established company or not. If you answered yes to any of those, you'll need to meet the bachelors degree requirement. Having recently gone through the China process, my degree needed to be notarised here and also legalised by the Chinese embassy.

It may be simpler just going to Taiwan if Japan/Korea aren't dealbreakers.

My preference would be Korea based on culture and women, but I don't think I would hate life in Taiwan/China.

I have heard too many horror stories of private schools not paying employees and I have not traveled much on my own so I think the security would do a lot for my mind. Anything outside Taiwan/China is not tangible?

I googled quickly and there are services with a novelty and 'fake' degrees so there's a chance I could pay a couple hundred and get a fake degree notarized. All that's legally required in Canada is they can call the college and ask if I attended and what year I graduated (I did graduate from a 2 year program and was enrolled in the 4 year, I just dropped out for other business).

I mean yeah it's an incredible risk just to go to a different country than one I prefer but I am just playing out hypotheticals.

Post: #492

(02-16-2016 05:15 PM)RustyShackleford Wrote:  

(02-16-2016 01:43 PM)tattiemasher Wrote:  It depends on whether you want to work completely legally, and whether you want to join a big established company or not. If you answered yes to any of those, you'll need to meet the bachelors degree requirement. Having recently gone through the China process, my degree needed to be notarised here and also legalised by the Chinese embassy.

It may be simpler just going to Taiwan if Japan/Korea aren't dealbreakers.

My preference would be Korea based on culture and women, but I don't think I would hate life in Taiwan/China.

I have heard too many horror stories of private schools not paying employees and I have not traveled much on my own so I think the security would do a lot for my mind. Anything outside Taiwan/China is not tangible?

I googled quickly and there are services with a novelty and 'fake' degrees so there's a chance I could pay a couple hundred and get a fake degree notarized. All that's legally required in Canada is they can call the college and ask if I attended and what year I graduated (I did graduate from a 2 year program and was enrolled in the 4 year, I just dropped out for other business).

I mean yeah it's an incredible risk just to go to a different country than one I prefer but I am just playing out hypotheticals.

Since you're only specifying Asia, it does cut your options down for the legally employed route. Taiwan definitely with your 2-year diploma, though some companies will prefer a full degree. Cambodia you can get a job as well. Not sure about anywhere like Myanmar or Laos, but I doubt you'll get a worthwhile wage somewhere like that. China you can probably find someone to employ you, but if you piss someone off you're ripe for being screwed over by the company or someone trying to get a reward for shopping you in. You'll need to keep your nose clean and stay on good terms with the employer.

If you're just looking to try out teaching, make a reasonable wage and have a fairly modern standard of living without going through more education or worry about the paperwork, I think Taiwan would be a good option.

Post: #493

(02-16-2016 05:15 PM)RustyShackleford Wrote:  My preference would be Korea based on culture and women, but I don't think I would hate life in Taiwan/China.

I have heard too many horror stories of private schools not paying employees and I have not traveled much on my own so I think the security would do a lot for my mind. Anything outside Taiwan/China is not tangible?

I googled quickly and there are services with a novelty and 'fake' degrees so there's a chance I could pay a couple hundred and get a fake degree notarized. All that's legally required in Canada is they can call the college and ask if I attended and what year I graduated (I did graduate from a 2 year program and was enrolled in the 4 year, I just dropped out for other business).

I mean yeah it's an incredible risk just to go to a different country than one I prefer but I am just playing out hypotheticals.

If you really want to do Korea then take a look at the TALK program- you can do it with a two-year degree. You teach in a public school (no worries about not getting paid) and the contact hours are low- 15 if I'm correct- half of what you'd be doing in a hagwon (language academy.)

The two drawbacks: you will definitely be put out in the sticks, and you'll make about a quarter less than those with a four year degree. The cost of getting around in Korea isn't high though.

I wouldn't recommend Japan. I noticed only one job ad (after months of searching for myself) that would consider a two year degree. Demand is higher and so is the cost of living.

Post: #494

@tattie

Thanks I will consider Taiwan then.

@glarkcable

I did some research on the TALK program and I am a city boy at heart, I would want to live in Seoul or around it. Thanks for the heads up on Japan, after reading through the 20 pages here I share the same sentiment.

Is it viable to fake a degree? How much manpower do they put into verifying it? More I think about it, the more realistic it seems. I could get my associates degree notarized and simply photoshop it. I also have friends who have done my associates degree and the 4 year degree where I could notarize their stuff and replace my name. IF that's more viable than ordering a fake degree online. I think it could be a safer bet than ordering from a diploma mill online because I assume they have gotten decent at sniffing out the fake degrees.

Post: #495

After doing some research on various forums and Youtube, as well as a friend who had traveled to SEA for a while I have some insights that I can share .

http://ninjateacher.com/

This guy Alex Stevenson has a bunch of youtube videos and from I have found out is that faking a degree is not the best idea for a more developed country. Korea and Japan need full transcripts sealed. Korea especially was a priority of mine but from what I have looked at they are really cracking down on public programs. They had 2 programs EPIK and TALK and it seems that the EPIK program is now shut down, where the TALK program is still going, but you would be teaching elementary students in rural areas.

http://www.internationalteflacademy.com/...i=14028985

However in Vietnam it's possible to still get a job without a degree if you are white and a native speaker. Most teachers in Vietnam (90%) are on tourist visas because the work visas take way too long to come back from the government. So most teachers do visa runs to Bangkok or elsewhere and come back in the country after 90 days.

Hence, a degree is not required for Vietnam even though the websites state it is. It's suggested by most people to simply fly to Vietnam on a tourist visa and get a job there through networking and other expats. I will be flying to Vietnam early April and I will probably poke around and see if I can get a job being honest about only having an Associate's Degree but from a friend who spent 6 months there he said it will be no problem if you are white and a native speaker.

It would also be easier to sleep at night being honest.

Post: #496

Here are some info on teaching in Japan. I know some gents out here are interested in the country and wanna come. Note: I've never taught English in Japan but I have lived there for a year and have met many friends who do.

There are a couple of positions that you can do in Japan:

JET Programme
One of the most common ways of teaching in Japan is via the JET Programme. You can check out the link here http://jetprogramme.org/en/

The JET is a programme where participants are placed mainly in public schools or local boards of education. ALTs assist with classes taught by Japanese Teachers of English/Language (JTEs/JTLs) and are thus involved in the preparation of teaching materials and in extracurricular activities like English clubs or sports teams. More than 90% of JET participants are employed as ALTs. I have heard some stuff about the programme, both good and bad but just a summary: The good- relatively high pay comparatively. Its a government programme so you're kinda recognized in case you want to teach in a private school in future. The Bad: You cant choose where you end up. Like this is probably the most obvious negative trait about the JET is that you CAN'T choose where you go and might end up in some god forsaken small town in the middle of no where. Many JETs dream of landing a school in the big cities like Tokyo or Osaka but not all are that lucky.

Teaching in an Eikaiwa
Eikaiwa literally means 'English Conversation' and there are thousands of Eikaiwas across Japan. The big Five are Nova, GEOS, ECC, Aeon, and Berlitz together amounting to a large portion of the industry. As an Eikaiwa teacher, you will follow the school's syllabus and teach in accordance to what the school wants you to teach. There are many Eikaiwa horror stories on seedy Eikaiwas not paying teachers on time or having long work hours that are unpaid, even the large companies are not spared from this. Based on the stories I've heard, teaching in an Eikaiwa is either the best experience or the shittiest nightmare so its abit of a gamble unfortunately. Remember to negotiate the terms of your contract properly before signing anything with the school.

Private Schools/International Schools
This is by far one of the best English jobs I know of in Japan. It can be one of the best paying jobs depending on the school and its normally the closest thing to a JET programme or teaching a legitimate school.( as contrast to the Eikaiwa where your students could be working adults) I have a friend who teaches in a private school but she got the job because she knew the principal who was a friend of her father so I'm not too sure if its difficult to secure a position in such a school. If I could, this would be my best option to recommend thus far.

NOTE: Many people come to Japan inspired and ready to teach English in the innovative methods that they have crafted and honed over the years. I must warn you that the students may enjoy your lessons if you're a fun and interesting teacher BUT they are painfully practical. They are there to get a good grade to get into university, full stop. Many of them are simply not interested to learn things outside of what is needed to get them into college and pass the TOEIC exams or something similar. Many young foreigners come to Japan and feel disappointed when students are more concerned about learning structured grammar and vocab that are used by nobody in real life instead of wanting to "feel" the language. Coming to Japan may require to lower your lofty teaching ambitions and recognize the practicality of English to these Japanese students.

Game: As for game related matters, there is a stigma that "every white man who lives in Japan is probably a poor English teacher" You can substitute 'white man' for 'foreigner' but you get the general idea. Its not exactly attractive to tell women you work as an Eikaiwa sensei because there is a lack of job security on most part and the stereotype of English teachers in Japan are foreigners with bad fashion sense either cause they lack fashion sense or the paycheck to improve it. Of course, an alpha with solid game would do good in Japan but just some heads up about some stigma about English teachers in Japan.

All in all, Japan is a great place to spend a few years as a young man and whether or not you choose to stay is up to you really. If teaching is your passion and Japan is a place you wouldn't mind staying a couple years, its definitely a place to make your base and travel occasionally to see the rest of Asia. Cheers!

Post: #497

I'm finishing up uni and taking Japanese, so I feel compelled to go to Japan for at least a year to see if I can increase my Japanese skills. I'm kinda dreading going to Japan though since the places I want to be are pretty expensive and teaching English isn't all that great there pay wise.

In all honesty, I'll probably end up in Taiwan myself, I really am interested by their culture and I've never heard anything bad about it. Too bad I couldn't bring myself to take Mandarin classes, something about the language that I just don't like. Curse my school for getting rid of Russian and Portugese . I like Japanese, but it pretty much binds me to going to Japan, which I probably won't be able to afford for quite a while.


Does anyone know how the wages are in places like Vietnam and Cambodia? Will you be living "well" for those countries on a teaching wage?

Post: #498

(02-17-2016 01:10 PM)Heart Break Kid Wrote:  I'm finishing up uni and taking Japanese, so I feel compelled to go to Japan for at least a year to see if I can increase my Japanese skills. I'm kinda dreading going to Japan though since the places I want to be are pretty expensive and teaching English isn't all that great there pay wise.

In all honesty, I'll probably end up in Taiwan myself, I really am interested by their culture and I've never heard anything bad about it. Too bad I couldn't bring myself to take Mandarin classes, something about the language that I just don't like. Curse my school for getting rid of Russian and Portugese . I like Japanese, but it pretty much binds me to going to Japan, which I probably won't be able to afford for quite a while.


Does anyone know how the wages are in places like Vietnam and Cambodia? Will you be living "well" for those countries on a teaching wage?

If you're working closer to a full working week, you can get about $1200 upwards for Vietnam, and definitely less in Cambodia. The cost of living though is a lot cheaper. If you're not living it up or eating at Western places you could probably save half of your salary very comfortably.

Post: #499

I'm in my early 20's and only have a GED. I'd like to teach English in either Eastern Europe (Serbia, Estonia, Bulgaria, Moldova, Budapest, Ukraine etc), Madrid, or Taiwan in that order.

Hypothetical: Lets say I took the in class 5-6 week CELTA course in the country that I desired to teach in. Would not having a bachelors degree hold me back from getting work, or will the CELTA be more than enough to 'get me through the door'?

Post: #500

(02-17-2016 03:59 PM)Glass Wrote:  I'm in my early 20's and only have a GED. I'd like to teach English in either Eastern Europe (Serbia, Estonia, Bulgaria, Moldova, Budapest, Ukraine etc), Madrid, or Taiwan in that order.

Hypothetical: Lets say I took the in class 5-6 week CELTA course in the country that I desired to teach in. Would not having a bachelors degree hold me back from getting work, or will the CELTA be more than enough to 'get me through the door'?

Keep in mind: You might not get into the CELTA course of your choice with just a GED, a qualification that may be technically equivalent to graduation from high school but that is often considered inferior. The classmates on my CELTA course were all college material, bright, academically-oriented people. Maybe that description fits you, but it doesn't describe the GED students I've known. CELTA is a money maker for Cambridge but they care about protecting their brand. Acceptance into the course is competitive in most places.