Post: #301

This has much better sound quality; but unfortunately, since it's only Jay, allows listeners to project that he's misrepresenting the position.

Post: #302

(04-07-2019 10:10 AM)infowarrior1 Wrote:  

(04-07-2019 09:08 AM)sterling_archer Wrote:  

(04-07-2019 08:36 AM)infowarrior1 Wrote:  Deuteronomy 32:8

Quote:When the Most High gave the nations their inheritance, when He divided the sons of man, He set the boundaries of the peoples according to the number of the sons of God

Since "son of God" means an angel, that means that because there were 70 or 72 nations in that unspecified part of ancient history, that there are actually just 70 angels in existence.

I believe angels on Earth are either dead or they shed their physical bodies and left this existence. I believe angels are mortal but not decaying; as in many occult or spiritual literature, beings that reside on planes "higher" than this one are said to be very powerful, don't get old or their appearance doesn't change (undacaying) but they are mortal. They probably can be killed by one of their own species and that is maybe what happened. I doubt humans killed them.

I dunno. But if they are Mortal. I don't see how the Princes of the nation of Greece and Persia would still live even after fighting with Michael and Gabriel.

And how the Angels in Heaven after the war in heaven according to Revelation are merely expelled and not destroyed.

Not sure, but I am inclined to believe things we read describe time before official history. If the Earth is so old and human race is relatively old too, these 70 nations might have existed before Flood (for which I believe was not like described in Bible), so somewhere at least 12 000 years ago.

Post: #303

(04-07-2019 12:50 PM)sterling_archer Wrote:  

(04-07-2019 10:10 AM)infowarrior1 Wrote:  

(04-07-2019 09:08 AM)sterling_archer Wrote:  

(04-07-2019 08:36 AM)infowarrior1 Wrote:  Deuteronomy 32:8

Quote:When the Most High gave the nations their inheritance, when He divided the sons of man, He set the boundaries of the peoples according to the number of the sons of God

Since "son of God" means an angel, that means that because there were 70 or 72 nations in that unspecified part of ancient history, that there are actually just 70 angels in existence.

I believe angels on Earth are either dead or they shed their physical bodies and left this existence. I believe angels are mortal but not decaying; as in many occult or spiritual literature, beings that reside on planes "higher" than this one are said to be very powerful, don't get old or their appearance doesn't change (undacaying) but they are mortal. They probably can be killed by one of their own species and that is maybe what happened. I doubt humans killed them.

I dunno. But if they are Mortal. I don't see how the Princes of the nation of Greece and Persia would still live even after fighting with Michael and Gabriel.

And how the Angels in Heaven after the war in heaven according to Revelation are merely expelled and not destroyed.

Not sure, but I am inclined to believe things we read describe time before official history. If the Earth is so old and human race is relatively old too, these 70 nations might have existed before Flood (for which I believe was not like described in Bible), so somewhere at least 12 000 years ago.

I am not really talking about the nations but angel mortality/immortality.

I do not possess enough information to evaluate your current assertions about the nations.

Post: #304

(04-08-2019 02:02 AM)infowarrior1 Wrote:  

(04-07-2019 12:50 PM)sterling_archer Wrote:  

(04-07-2019 10:10 AM)infowarrior1 Wrote:  

(04-07-2019 09:08 AM)sterling_archer Wrote:  

(04-07-2019 08:36 AM)infowarrior1 Wrote:  Deuteronomy 32:8

Since "son of God" means an angel, that means that because there were 70 or 72 nations in that unspecified part of ancient history, that there are actually just 70 angels in existence.

I believe angels on Earth are either dead or they shed their physical bodies and left this existence. I believe angels are mortal but not decaying; as in many occult or spiritual literature, beings that reside on planes "higher" than this one are said to be very powerful, don't get old or their appearance doesn't change (undacaying) but they are mortal. They probably can be killed by one of their own species and that is maybe what happened. I doubt humans killed them.

I dunno. But if they are Mortal. I don't see how the Princes of the nation of Greece and Persia would still live even after fighting with Michael and Gabriel.

And how the Angels in Heaven after the war in heaven according to Revelation are merely expelled and not destroyed.

Not sure, but I am inclined to believe things we read describe time before official history. If the Earth is so old and human race is relatively old too, these 70 nations might have existed before Flood (for which I believe was not like described in Bible), so somewhere at least 12 000 years ago.

I am not really talking about the nations but angel mortality/immortality.

I do not possess enough information to evaluate your current assertions about the nations.

This is exactly how a thread degenerates. How is knowing whether angels are mortal or immortal going to improve your life? On the other hand, getting to know God (which has nothing to do with knowing whether angels are mortal or immortal) will undoubtedly dramatically improve your life.

Post: #305

I am no 'a-theist'. My statement is directed at the symbolic representation thereof, by way of the passage in Genesis 1:26 (King James translation), to wit: "Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness;". Since God has no image, and could not possibly have an image in the common understanding of the term 'image', I don't observe that the statement was intended to be taken literally, and yet here we are with said representation of God as 'bearded old white guy". (BTW, who is this "we"??? more on that later....) It may be that a-theism is simply a rejection of that representation, but as I am not an a-theist, I cannot speak to their motives, though I also find zero merit that God is a bearded old white guy.

I have no issue with God creating the Universe, over the course of a few billions of years and marshaling the laws of physics, the electromagnetic spectrum, mathematics, and the subatomic world to achieve such ends.

(04-05-2019 08:22 AM)johnreed Wrote:  Depends on who your God is.... the bearded white guy who counts every hair on your head?

(04-01-2019 05:26 PM)MoonshineGuy Wrote:  Many years ago, I would have agreed with your statement. Now I see that the greatest reality is that of the Creationist. All of the current bits of TheNarrative that contradict the existence of God and push things like geologic evolution and biologic evolution are supported by all those Blue Pill perfessors and marxists that Red Pill followers of folks like Roosh detest.

So reality? Reality is that we were created by God.

But I believe that the beginning of this thread was started by our gracious host with the words, ".. atheists can start their own thread".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJGairhrPGc&t=706s

(04-01-2019 11:47 AM)Druber Wrote:  So you're having a midlife crisis. Embrace it and enjoy. When it ends, come back to reality please.

Enjoy your happy feelings, though.

Post: #306

Actually, 'son of God' means 'son of God'.
I was wondering how long it would take this thread to wander off into the weeds. '70 angels in existence'... what is the basis of this statement?

BTW, there is nothing in the Bible about the 3 archangels and Lucifer becoming Satan, etc. etc. where that story can be found is in Milton's 'Paradise Lost', which makes it literature, not theology.

(04-07-2019 09:08 AM)sterling_archer Wrote:  

(04-07-2019 08:36 AM)infowarrior1 Wrote:  Deuteronomy 32:8

Quote:When the Most High gave the nations their inheritance, when He divided the sons of man, He set the boundaries of the peoples according to the number of the sons of God

Since "son of God" means an angel, that means that because there were 70 or 72 nations in that unspecified part of ancient history, that there are actually just 70 angels in existence.

I believe angels on Earth are either dead or they shed their physical bodies and left this existence. I believe angels are mortal but not decaying; as in many occult or spiritual literature, beings that reside on planes "higher" than this one are said to be very powerful, don't get old or their appearance doesn't change (undacaying) but they are mortal. They probably can be killed by one of their own species and that is maybe what happened. I doubt humans killed them.

Post: #307

(04-08-2019 10:51 AM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  This is exactly how a new denomination forms. How is knowing whether angels are mortal or immortal going to improve your life? On the other hand, getting to know God (which has nothing to do with knowing whether angels are mortal or immortal) will undoubtedly dramatically improve your life.

Fixed that for you.

On a serious note. Plenty of (most?) Christians throughout history couldn't even read or write. Doubtful they knew much about the super small details.

Things worked out fine.

Post: #308

(04-08-2019 03:22 PM)VNvet Wrote:  

(04-08-2019 10:51 AM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  This is exactly how a new denomination forms. How is knowing whether angels are mortal or immortal going to improve your life? On the other hand, getting to know God (which has nothing to do with knowing whether angels are mortal or immortal) will undoubtedly dramatically improve your life.

Fixed that for you.

On a serious note. Plenty of (most?) Christians throughout history couldn't even read or write. Doubtful they knew much about the super small details.

Things worked out fine.

People debating the minutia to decide who is holier or who understands God better. Nope. That is not how it works. God doesn't want anything between you and him, be it a priest of tens of thousands of pages of academia. This super modern world we live in -- where everyone simply must prove how smart they are to everyone else at all times. Sorry. Vanity is a sin all right.

Post: #309

(04-08-2019 03:22 PM)VNvet Wrote:  

(04-08-2019 10:51 AM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  This is exactly how a new denomination forms. How is knowing whether angels are mortal or immortal going to improve your life? On the other hand, getting to know God (which has nothing to do with knowing whether angels are mortal or immortal) will undoubtedly dramatically improve your life.

Fixed that for you.

On a serious note. Plenty of (most?) Christians throughout history couldn't even read or write. Doubtful they knew much about the super small details.

Things worked out fine.

"The devil is in the details" springs to mind.

Post: #310

@JohnReed

Certainly, there’s precious little on the Angels in the Bible, as that is a book of Man concerning the needs of Man. Vague references here and there in Peter and other New Testament texts, as well as Genesis 6.

To understand the Elohim and Beni Elohim you need to dig deep into esoteric scripture - the Dead Sea Scrolls being a good start. Specifically the Book of Giants or Enoch 1-3. Though the Dead Sea Scrolls are invaluable regardless for understanding why Yeshua was forsaken by his people - the devout of his time were expecting a Warrior King rather than a Messiah.

Post: #311

Aurini, your message box here is full again. Can you shoot me the link to your Discord in pvt?

Obligatory content, since I posted:

(04-08-2019 10:51 AM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  This is exactly how a thread degenerates. How is knowing whether angels are mortal or immortal going to improve your life? On the other hand, getting to know God (which has nothing to do with knowing whether angels are mortal or immortal) will undoubtedly dramatically improve your life.

Agreed.

It's pointless taking around God when you could be talking to God. It's a repeated theme you'll find in RC Theology: the danger of the Proud Man seeking knowledge of God out of curiousity and to satisfy his own intellect.

This means, not only recognising what and not what to read, but to read for sincere reasons, and is also about knowing when not to read when it isn't God's Will for the moment, (which you learn gradually through discernment).

More discussion on this, off the top of my head:

- Chapter 1, Sections 5 & 6 of 'Abandonment to Divine Providence' by Jean-Pierre de Caussade, titled, "The reading of Good Books and any other pious exercises are useless unless they are channels through which God operates" and "The use of our reason and other faculties is profitable only when it serves as an instrument of God's activity".

- Book 3, Chapter 43 of 'The Imitation of Christ' by Thomas A Kempis, titled "Against Vain and Secular Knowledge"'.

- Somewhere in Chapter 5 in 'The Story of A Soul' by St Therese of Lisieux, she discusses her sudden interest in studying to acquire knowledge, and how it was really 'just vanity and affliction of spirit', and was of no use in knowing God.

Davis: remember Heidrun saying both 3rd Function (Materialists) and 2nd Fuction (Intellectuals) do not know The Father? I think where I've been gently-leading you is engaging in the shift I made from 2nd into 1st Function Thought (Priest / Kings). Worldy Ideas all become just facets of and paths to The Idea: Knowledge of the Father. As an Instinctual Creative, I was most of the way there - it just took a couple of decades to drag my vain intellect into alignment ('obedience') with my intuitive experience of The Father.

You come to understand that the quest to wanting to know based upon your own curious whims can block the operation of God showing you what you need to know for your sanctification.

This is why I've learnt to be very careful to not discount a Theological Work just because it seems arid in the current moment. It can just mean you're not ready for it yet. You'll know when you're pushed to return to it. A good example would be my experience with 'The Way of Perfection' by St Teresa of Avila, which went from 'this is the most boring book I've ever read' and was tossed aside after a few chapters to 'there are entire worlds contained on each page of this' just nine months later.

So, be careful of the intellectual snares. Currently, I'm fascinated with the idea of 'The Heliand', the Saxon Gospel from the 8th Century where the Christ Story is sold to the Germanic Tribes as him being a warrior-king and his apostles as his knights. Note, I'm trying to wilfully-stop myself from reading it because it's really going to add nothing to my reasoned and experienced knowledge of God, particulary as I've noticed a tendency in myself to wander off into Gnostic areas of thought (more snares) if I research anything too deeply.

Post: #312

After deep prayer, God has confirmed what I already suspected (knew?): all forms of birth control for advanced societies are evil and that 8 is most probably the ideal number of offspring to sire. This was somewhat disheartening for me as I will not raise 8 children. Still, my wife has given me several so I cannot be too hard on her.

Post: #313

Very much an attitude I'm fostering. I was speaking to somebody recently - some very curious developments in that situation we discussed (tempting me to become curious) - and he kept asking "What about this? What about that?"

To which I tried to explain "Is this is our direct control? Does it matter? Does pondering these topics get us closer to God?" I still sit back and observe (how prescient was the title of my blog, Stares at the World?) and I'll occasionally toss something out on the Trump or Yang threads, but there's quite a bit I don't say. What's the word for something true, but hurtful? Like telling a child that Santa Clause doesn't exist? It's not calumny, but it's close to it.

It's good to know the lay of the land, but over-obsession over it can lead to depression, anger, argumentativeness, and viciousness. Still things that tempt and challenge me. But, practice - detaching bit by bit.

Post: #314

(04-11-2019 03:02 PM)Aurini Wrote:  It's good to know the lay of the land, but over-obsession over it can lead to depression, anger, argumentativeness, and viciousness. Still things that tempt and challenge me. But, practice - detaching bit by bit.

   

Post: #315

Duplicate.

Post: #316

(04-08-2019 10:51 AM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  This is exactly how a thread degenerates. How is knowing whether angels are mortal or immortal going to improve your life? On the other hand, getting to know God (which has nothing to do with knowing whether angels are mortal or immortal) will undoubtedly dramatically improve your life.

I hope this thread can bounce back from theological discussion into something that's more in the spirit of the original post. Hell, even discussing the fallen nature of man and why we need a savior is a better alternative than discussing the existence of God or angels.

Here's something to move the thread back in that direction: What do you think of the folks over at Dalrock's blog? My take on them is that they're trying to do the right thing but are not willing to examine the shortcomings of Christianity (or churchianity, depending on where you draw the line) with enough of a critical eye. They claim that the red pill view of women is what the Bible has been saying all along, which is technically true, except they would not be having this discussion if it weren't for the contributions of the PUA/Game community in revealing the nature of women. Instead of asking why even the most conservative Bible teachers couldn't figure it out, they repudiate the PUAs and act like it was their own knowledge all along.

This is not to beat them on the head for not having figured it out on their own. They seem bogged down by their unwillingness to recognize that failure, expose themselves to other perspectives, and gain some kind of insight for improvement in the future. As a result, they seem perpetually stuck in an early red pill stage, never advancing to the black and white pill stages.

Post: #317

Absolutely love this thread. I have become more religious over the previous year as I overcame an extremely dark period of my life and made a miraculous recovery. I spent this winter traveling through south America, trying to find a traditional religious community in this increasingly hedonistic world. Unfortunately of the places I went, I found a society almost as corrupted as the western world.

Not giving up hope yet. I have heard that Brazil has a strong Evangelical movement, and many people are going back to the church. When I visit Brazil starting in September (hopefully) I plan on finding a church that fits me well, and surround myself with a social circle of people who see value in living a pious life.

Anyone here have experiences getting involved in churches abroad? The ones I went to in Colombia and Peru didn't have many groups or get togethers outside of Sunday mass. On Christmas I was invited to a celebration with a family involved in the church, but all the people around my age had zero interest in their religion, just going along with their family.

Religion is the only way to go from here. The day of reckoning is coming, stay faithful to the Lord and NEVER stray from his path. Looking at the way the world is going from a secular perspective, I feel extremely pessimistic. Whenever I see this world in a religious light, I feel optimistic that we are close to something BIG happening. Shits going down soon, and the Lord will not forget those who believe in his power

Bless you all, I'm so grateful to be a part of this community

Post: #318

A message from the devil.

Post: #319

(04-11-2019 08:21 PM)Cortés Wrote:  Absolutely love this thread. I have become more religious over the previous year as I overcame an extremely dark period of my life and made a miraculous recovery. I spent this winter traveling through south America, trying to find a traditional religious community in this increasingly hedonistic world. Unfortunately of the places I went, I found a society almost as corrupted as the western world.
….

I can't speak for Peru, but I agree that Colombia isn't at all a bastion of religiosity. In some ways the people are generally believing in God, but in many cases it can be on a superficial level.

I did reconnect with a 40 something friend of mine here last week, he is married with kids and I went with him to his evangelical church (I am Catholic). It was a good service with good doctrine I would say, lots of latin energy of course. As a traveller, I think you are less likely to encounter conservative & religious people. Conservative/Religious people are more tight in their local communities, and harder to access, I believe this is something Roosh has mentioned with respect to women. Conservative, religious women don't jump at foreigners the same way.

I would be interested to hear what you find in Brazil. However, I would expect the same.

I think you are right that all the Christian cultures are now 'infected' / 'inflitrated' albeit in different ways, some more than others.

To me, the key is to be in one place that has a church you align with, where you locate friends who believe in religion, and you can go from there. I am not sure if there is truly any religious location anywhere in the world fully guarded from modernity.

Glad to hear you are through a tough time. These things can teach us a lot about life and help us to take risks, make changes we never would.

Post: #320

(04-11-2019 06:20 PM)BlueMark Wrote:  

(04-08-2019 10:51 AM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  This is exactly how a thread degenerates. How is knowing whether angels are mortal or immortal going to improve your life? On the other hand, getting to know God (which has nothing to do with knowing whether angels are mortal or immortal) will undoubtedly dramatically improve your life.

I hope this thread can bounce back from theological discussion into something that's more in the spirit of the original post. Hell, even discussing the fallen nature of man and why we need a savior is a better alternative than discussing the existence of God or angels.

Here's something to move the thread back in that direction: What do you think of the folks over at Dalrock's blog? My take on them is that they're trying to do the right thing but are not willing to examine the shortcomings of Christianity (or churchianity, depending on where you draw the line) with enough of a critical eye. They claim that the red pill view of women is what the Bible has been saying all along, which is technically true, except they would not be having this discussion if it weren't for the contributions of the PUA/Game community in revealing the nature of women. Instead of asking why even the most conservative Bible teachers couldn't figure it out, they repudiate the PUAs and act like it was their own knowledge all along.

This is not to beat them on the head for not having figured it out on their own. They seem bogged down by their unwillingness to recognize that failure, expose themselves to other perspectives, and gain some kind of insight for improvement in the future. As a result, they seem perpetually stuck in an early red pill stage, never advancing to the black and white pill stages.

My take is that many of those so called "conservatives" who seemed to not figure it out at least those that we know of or seem visible. Are false brethren. Infiltrators that the church even at the beginning has had to deal with.

I doubt the conservatives who are not as famous or marginalized didn't know what what in regards to women.

As for Christianity. I believe each of them have their reasons as to why its true. Personally I don't pretend that PUAs haven't really helped in my bible understanding which allowed me an explanation for "sexist" bible passages which have been twisted by those to claim to be of God.

As for the existence of God and a savior. Its just as important to talk about the existence of God as for the fallenness of man.

Because if man is fallen there are plenty of people offering solutions but which solution is best and actually true is determined by the truth of Christianity or not.

Christianity is more than morality and a cure of societal ills. It promises Theosis and a glorified body for all those who are saved. It promises the Paradise of Eden that is much better the 2nd time around.

Post: #321

(04-11-2019 09:31 PM)Kish Wrote:  A message from the devil.

...

Yeah... nah.
Petulant & juvenile temper tantrums that have lasted the entire course of human history are not really all that constructive.

Post: #322

(04-10-2019 06:30 PM)AnonymousBosch Wrote:  ...
It's pointless taking around God when you could be talking to God. It's a repeated theme you'll find in RC Theology: the danger of the Proud Man seeking knowledge of God out of curiousity and to satisfy his own intellect.
...

So, be careful of the intellectual snares.
...

This parallels the archetype of the wise old man in Jung's archetypal taxonomy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wise_old_man

It has further parallels throughout many other 'teachings and disciplines'.

The thing is, one can identify too much with the archetype.

And in being so wise, one becomes foolish.

I am a great man. A wise man.

There is great danger with this archetype.

I will admit, I do identify with it. But only so much. Because there in lies great danger. I am wise, but only because I know what it means to be a fool, a trickster, a harlequin *, a joker!

Once I lose touch with my silly side and am consumed by this one 'thing' I no longer am it. I am the antithesis of it. The fool makes me wise. To only be the wise man is foolish.

I am careful of that 'intellectual snare' as you so put it.

the danger of the Proud Man seeking knowledge of God out of curiousity and to satisfy his own intellect.

I am not proud. I don't even seek knowledge any more. I have found what I was looking for. I have satisfied my own intellect. The little that I have. And truly, it is not much. Not even being humble.

A man's got to know his limitations.

I am humbled before God. But I am humbled before other men, first. And that is truly humbling. Bigger better faster. Harder richer quicker. I can not compete.

I try to maintain my own good nature and my own charm.

Anyway, AB, I took the version of your 'Proud Man' as you spoke of, to be a parallel to Jung's Wise Old Man archetype. I may be wrong.

Be wise, but don't get too full of yourself.

There is only one that can be truly wise all the time.

I'm thinking King Lear now and the Fool. *

Too much flattery is never good. But sometimes speaking truth to power is counter-productive too.

We can flatter ourselves too much sometimes. But we can also beat ourselves down too much as well.

It is our place to truly flatter ourselves, for our successes.

And it is our place to berate ourselves for our failures - to 'have a word with ourselves'.

Is that a prayer? It could be.


I know nothing and observe like a child.

And that isn't me being humble. It's just the truth.

I've met wise old men. Truly wise old men.

But I've met some that have been so consumed by their 'wiseness' that they are not wise any more. They will take no argument. They know better. And they did once.

It is truly sad. A little humility goes a long way.

Proud men who sought knowledge of God and found it, but only used it to feed their own intellect and to impress others.

They got pipped at the post.


But who am I to try and tell anyone anything?


* The Harlequin is characterized by his chequered costume. His role is that of a light-hearted, nimble, and astute servant, often acting to thwart the plans of his master,

Post: #323

(04-12-2019 05:12 PM)CynicalContrarian Wrote:  

(04-11-2019 09:31 PM)Kish Wrote:  A message from the devil.

...

Yeah... nah.
Petulant & juvenile temper tantrums that have lasted the entire course of human history are not really all that constructive.

The "associate partners with God" was a funny line along the way ...

Post: #324

Godlessness is growing in the United States:

Quote:For the first time "No Religion" has topped a survey of Americans' religious identity, according to a new analysis by a political scientist. The non-religious edged out Catholics and evangelicals in the long-running General Social Survey.

Ryan Burge, a political scientist at Eastern Illinois University and a Baptist pastor, found that 23.1% of Americans now claim no religion.

   

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/04/13/us/no...index.html

Post: #325

^^ Interesting how mainline protestant saw the largest drop. I am guessing its the female involvement in the clergy, openness to gay sex among many of these sects.