Post: #26

If she catches you cheating, and you're not married with kids, 99.9% of the time it's not worth trying to salvage the relationship.

Post: #27

If shes not keeping you happy and interested, just stop torturing her and go find someone who does.

Unless you are getting off on the whole torture and ruin of her?

Post: #28

(02-25-2019 06:05 PM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:  If shes not keeping you happy and interested, just stop torturing her and go find someone who does.

Unless you are getting off on the whole torture and ruin of her?

I probably do enjoy it.

I have mommy issues. My mother was a whore, cucked my dad, and was hyper career focused with the odd flourish of maternal love and care. This put me in a position of chasing her flaky love constantly as a kid and often getting shutdown and scolded.

I've heard and read that the way we treat women goes back to our relationship with our parents.

Post: #29

Well, that's some shit.

Post: #30

UPDATE;

She's back on my dick.

Conclusion; Yes, relationships are salvageable after being caught cheating red-handed. Even if you're a non-famous normie like me.

Method; I had to pull out some seriously manipulative shit to pull this off. Firstly, do not chase or apologise for anything. Radio silence unless you are getting contact from her. Keep responses limited. Reiterate that the cheating was her fault for not stepping up to the plate more (invent any reason and make it believeable. We can all find flaws in the relationship we are in - make it compelling). Secondly, give her blessings to go and meet other guys (you regain the frame. It's like giving her a permission slip). Holding composure is a must. You actually have to believe it. I had reached a point mentally where I had accepted she was leaving, and that helped me execute stone cold killer game, unclouded by emotion.

Here was the best part of my manipulation - She accused me of being constantly online on my messenger app. I already knew I had her at this point, so I iced it with what I did next. I sent her screenshots of my message history (after doing a heavy edit) but I purposefully left one message in there from a girl. She had opened up a jewellery shop in town and wanted me to visit her. High quality social proofing message. Drove my ex insane. "Why are you talking to her? She's a fucking trust fund kid!! Fucking slut"

After that she was all apologies and 'I wasn't thinking clearly' 'I want to make this work' etc.

I have to say, watching someone who has tried to break up with you have a meltdown and try to get you back has to be one of the most satisfying experiences I've had in my entire checkered life in game.

Post: #31

Yeez man, doesn't really align to my values either (maybe that's why I'm still 100% beta), but props to you.
Didn't thought she'd came back. That's some manipulative shit you're doing.

Post: #32

(02-25-2019 02:30 PM)Kamikaze Wrote:  

(02-24-2019 10:51 PM)Cheatingcad Wrote:  What would a dark triad do from here to manipulate a girl back into his orbit?

Why are you interested in keeping her 'in orbit'? You got the bang, you got her 'mind' so to speak. She 'loves' you, seems pretty clear you don't have those same feelings. Why not move on and find a new plate? You don't seem to have much trouble with it.

The reason is simply power and control. In my mind she's a high quality girl. Body is a 10, face is a 7.5. But her biggest asset is she is academically gifted. Scholarship to prestigious university, brought up in privilege (aside experiencing a divorce between her parents), insane vocabulary and very well spoken.

Post: #33

This thread is some daytime soap/cheap romance novel fiction, and OP is a woman.

Post: #34

(02-26-2019 12:50 AM)Tex Cruise Wrote:  This thread is some daytime soap/cheap romance novel fiction, and OP is a woman.

We're not all triple fisiting hoes while riding on giant double-ended dildos, pushing needles into our pee holes, Tex. Sorry to bore you.

Post: #35

(02-26-2019 01:13 AM)Cheatingcad Wrote:  

(02-26-2019 12:50 AM)Tex Cruise Wrote:  This thread is some daytime soap/cheap romance novel fiction, and OP is a woman.

We're not all triple fisiting hoes while riding on giant double-ended dildos, pushing needles into our pee holes, Tex. Sorry to bore you.

People are reacting this way because there are some issues here you need to address with yourself about why you want to get caught, why you want to beat up on this woman emotionally, and why you want drama.

It's one thing to want to nut on a strange set of titties. You've seem to have something else going on, though. I'll drop two thoughts:

- If you spend 10 minutes a day on something, by the end of the year, you've spent a 40-hour workweek on it. Bullshit like your girl throwing a tantrum and jerking you around for days or weeks because she found your messages isn't worth it. Value your own time and energy more highly than that. Go with God on the plates, but you want to surgically remove the drama for your own well-being, if not your main's.

- I used to bang some girl who had a boyfriend behind the scenes, and he found the messages. The first time, I wrote it off as her being dumb and told her to lock up her phone. When it happened the second time, it was clear she was letting this happen "accidentally on purpose" to control him. That was too toxic and mental for me and I stopped banging her. The last time we talked, I called her out on wanting to get caught and she cringed and admitted that I was probably right, even though it made her feel gross to say it.

Most people know what they're doing. There's no beneficial end game in all the effort you're putting into this other than you kicking yourself because this girl left your orbit and you didn't want her to. Use a passcode or lock pattern she can't guess, set an immediate lock when you power off the screen, and clean it so she can't figure out where you repeatedly drag your fingers. Don't use fingerprint unlock. Keep your messages and pictures somewhere else that doesn't have a link on your home screen and use a burner number/account with plausible deniability. Pull your game together.

Post: #36

OP is a wounded little duck who came here for attention and validation. Neither asking for help nor contributing anything of value he instead wants confirmation of his Machiavellian "darkness". He uses the fact that his mother didn't love him enough as justification for deriving pleasure from the emotional pain of other women.

His ego (in the clinical sense) is thus propped up in direct proportion to his perception of the relative "value" of the woman he's "punishing". After all the higher she is in terms of socio-economic value and educated she is, the "higher" he must be in order to be able control, manipulate, and torment her....right OP?

This is just another variant in the long line of "I'm a special snowflake and my damage is unique but not my fault" basic chodes come and go here at RVF

Welcome to RVF OP. I think you'll fit right in... here

Post: #37

(02-26-2019 11:44 AM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  his perception of the relative "value" of the woman he's "punishing". After all the higher she is in terms of socio-economic value and educated she is, the "higher" he must be in order to be able control, manipulate, and torment her....right OP?

This is just another variant in the long line of "I'm a special snowflake and my damage is unique but not my fault" basic chodes come and go here at RVF

I'm having trouble reckoning how much of that is really him feeling that way and how much is him trying to back his mistakes into a rationalization for being as irresponsible as he's been.

Both are neckbeard gamma behavior, though. You're right.

Post: #38

(02-25-2019 05:08 PM)lampshade Wrote:  If she catches you cheating, and you're not married with kids, 99.9% of the time it's not worth trying to salvage the relationship.

Come on now. My main girl caught me a couple years ago. It took a week or so but she was all right with it after that.
I framed it as "you're here, she's not anymore, I chose you, so what are you so worried about", which seemed to help. It was also true.
There is an inverse relationship between the anger a woman feels towards a cheating man ... and that man's SMV.
The rules are different for the top 10%.
If you're up there, a woman will basically assume that you'll take advantage of other options once in a while, and look the other way. But she'll stay.

Post: #39

Relevant:





There's a fundamental difference between cheating and trying to hide it, and cheating but trying to get caught to have a particular effect on the girl.

Getting a girl to come back is really not that big a deal. I would guess a great majority of guys on this forum have been able to work it out.

What really takes heavy balls, and is a bigger challenge, is to straight up lay the cards out on the table to a girl and say that monogamy is not in the cards, and she can get to steppin if she doesn't like it. Most guys can't pull that off with a girl that's high quality.

I won't place too much blame on OP, though. A lot of my 'ethos' comes from how Patrice verbalized game, and he did say it helps a lot if a guy goes through a phase where he sleeps with anything that walks, and treats women like absolute shit. After that, nothing phases you. But a big part of Patrice's ethos is that you operate with honesty, unapologetic, with a clear conscience. It feels good that I can't be called a liar, to be known as 'open' and a 'straight shooter.' It's not for everybody, though, and I only really made it an active goal in relationships after making smaller mistakes, tip-toeing around bitches, and seeing that being 'straight' made me and her happy.

I never went as far as OP, and never will. I password protect my homemade sex vids, jaja. But maybe it's just a phase, hopefully it is. Just kinda surprising to see such a... 'basic' thread from a guy who's supposedly 31 and has experience with all this.

Post: #40

(02-26-2019 12:59 PM)Jetset Wrote:  

(02-26-2019 11:44 AM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  his perception of the relative "value" of the woman he's "punishing". After all the higher she is in terms of socio-economic value and educated she is, the "higher" he must be in order to be able control, manipulate, and torment her....right OP?

This is just another variant in the long line of "I'm a special snowflake and my damage is unique but not my fault" basic chodes come and go here at RVF

I'm having trouble reckoning how much of that is really him feeling that way and how much is him trying to back his mistakes into a rationalization for being as irresponsible as he's been.

Both are neckbeard gamma behavior, though. You're right.

There's nothing gamma about getting caught cheating and then roping a high quality girl back into your orbit. Getting caught cheating and remaining cool under pressure is quite the opposite of gamma, one would've thought. Especially in the West where even ugly girls have loads of options and do not have to settle for anything.

I did not want to get caught. I was careless, but not on purpose. Carelessness comes from having too much success with women and becoming complacent. The first time I was caught I used a stupid Kanye West passcode. I was too arrogant to think that a woman I was thoroughly dominating would dare to go through my phone.

The second time I was caught was months later and I was more careful. I used a better passcode and I never unlocked my phone in front of her. I also created hidden folders on my phone so I could hide my dating apps. I put more effort in, but I again underestimated her. There must have been a few times that I unlocked my phone in her vicinity and she saw the numbers out of the corner of her eye.

The third time was absolutely insane. I never unlocked my phone in front of her and I used a passcode that included 6 different digits, out of sequence. The only possible explanation is that she sat on my phone, while I was napping in bed, and systematically put in random combinations until she unlocked the phone.

My biggest weakness in this entire scenario was chronically underestimating her. I had her pinned as a pushover and I was wrong. She has a passive, introverted and agreeable front, but underneath it is an intense plotter. She will go from pushover to tearing at my face with fingernails in a mere second. Explosive, violent temper.

The gamma accusations in previous comments quite ironically come across as quite gamma themselves. But I get it. Manipulative nobodies like me having success banging lots of women would be annoying for the supposed 'moral player' who is so incredibly moral because he cheats without getting caught. What Momma don't know won't hurt her, right?

We all need a bit of self-reflection here, even the supposed RVForum experts. Accusing someone who bangs lots of women as gamma just comes across as butthurt and weird.

Post: #41

(02-26-2019 06:44 PM)Kamikaze Wrote:  Relevant:





There's a fundamental difference between cheating and trying to hide it, and cheating but trying to get caught to have a particular effect on the girl.

Getting a girl to come back is really not that big a deal. I would guess a great majority of guys on this forum have been able to work it out.

What really takes heavy balls, and is a bigger challenge, is to straight up lay the cards out on the table to a girl and say that monogamy is not in the cards, and she can get to steppin if she doesn't like it. Most guys can't pull that off with a girl that's high quality.

I won't place too much blame on OP, though. A lot of my 'ethos' comes from how Patrice verbalized game, and he did say it helps a lot if a guy goes through a phase where he sleeps with anything that walks, and treats women like absolute shit. After that, nothing phases you. But a big part of Patrice's ethos is that you operate with honesty, unapologetic, with a clear conscience. It feels good that I can't be called a liar, to be known as 'open' and a 'straight shooter.' It's not for everybody, though, and I only really made it an active goal in relationships after making smaller mistakes, tip-toeing around bitches, and seeing that being 'straight' made me and her happy.

I never went as far as OP, and never will. I password protect my homemade sex vids, jaja. But maybe it's just a phase, hopefully it is. Just kinda surprising to see such a... 'basic' thread from a guy who's supposedly 31 and has experience with all this.

The best girls don't settle for open relationships. That's really low value behaviour from a woman, especially in the current market.

I think it takes bigger balls to run a genuine, loving relationship and fuck women on the side with a clear conscious, and then hold it all together after you're caught. This way you fuck the best women (who do require commitment and monogamy if they actually are high quality. Fact).

A woman who shares her man is by definition a lower quality piece of side ass. A woman worth her salt will want to know that she is investing her love in a man who is going to stick around.

Post: #42

If you read "Games people play" by Eric Berne..

you can read about "mind games" in which people interact through a patterned and predictable series of "transactions" which are superficially plausible (that is, they may appear normal to bystanders or even to the people involved),
but which actually conceal motivations, include private significance to the parties involved, and lead to a well-defined predictable outcome, usually counterproductive to what people say they want to achieve.

Like Cops and Robbers/ Hide and Seek.

"Because many criminals are cop-haters, they seem to get as much satisfaction from outwitting the police as from their criminal gains, often more. Their crimes, at the Adult Level, are games played for the material rewards, the take; but at the Child level, it is the thrill of the chase: the getaway and the cool-off.

"Curiously enough, the childhood prototype of “Cops and Robbers” is not cops and robbers but hide-and-seek,
in which the essential element is the chagrin at being found.

Younger children readily betray this. If father finds them too easily, the chagrin is there without much fun.

But father, if he is a good player, knows what to do: he holds off, whereupon the little boy gives him a clue by calling out, dropping something or banging.

Thus, he forces father to find him, but still shows chagrin; this time he has had more fun because of the increased suspense. If father gives up, the boy usually feels disappointed rather than victorious. Since the fun of being hidden was there, evidently that is not where the trouble lies.

What he is disappointed about is not being caught. When his turn comes to hide, father knows he is not supposed to outwit the child for very long, just long enough to make it fun; and he is wise enough to look chagrined when he is caught.

It soon becomes clear that being found is the necessary payoff.

Hence, hide-and-seek is not a mere pastime but a true game.

At the social level it is a battle of wits, and is most satisfying when the Adult of each player does his best; at the psychological level, however, it is set up in which the Adult has to lose in order for his child to win.

Not being caught is actually the antithesis.

Among older children, one who finds an insoluble hiding place is regarded as not being a good sport, since he has spoiled the game.

He has eliminated the Child element and turned the whole thing into and Adult procedure. He is no longer playing for fun. He is in the same class as the owner of a casino, or some professional criminals, who are really out for money rather than sport.

The situation is similar with gamblers.

There are those who spend their time gaming, i.e., playing with Fate, in whom the strength of the Adult’s desire to win is exceeded only by the strength of the Child’s need to lose.
Then there are those who run gambling houses and actually do earn a living, usually a very good one, by providing opportunities for gamesters to play."

Looking at the above..
You are not playing at being the straight criminal who is never caught because no-one knows who he is let alone what he is getting away with.

You are playing at being Bonnie and Clyde and/or Dillinger for all the drama that makes it worthwhile to you and adds to your own self regarding legend (and perhaps your other half, who is also keen on playing along, who also seems invested in this.)

A sure tell is that you came on here ostensibly asking for advice but just as quickly started telling everyone that they were wrong about the world of relationships because.. what they needed to do was defer to your greater wisdom, you had come on here to preach and advertise yourself, not get advice.

Notice how the all the man-hunts and modern day robin hoods end up getting caught in highly publicised cross country chases. Heroic sure.. but ultimately futile compared to the 'straight' 'grey man' felons who commit crime repeatedly and successfully.

So 'getting found' (out) gave you the opportunity to come on here, ostensibly to ask for help in a difficult situation, but then...

actually it seems that 'getting caught' enabled you to come on here to advertise your own self regarding prowess and to 'one-up' / argue down all comers.

In criminal terms you are less of an untouchable 'ghost' O.G. and more of a fugitive meth head holding up liquor stores with a 'born to lose' tattoo emblazoned on his chest and who is more concerned with his own delusional self-mythology rather than actually learning anything new and changing his course to something more successful.

"We all need a bit of self-reflction here.."

Irony levels are high, Mr Expert.

Post: #43

(02-25-2019 09:46 PM)Cheatingcad Wrote:  Here was the best part of my manipulation - She accused me of being constantly online on my messenger app. I already knew I had her at this point, so I iced it with what I did next. I sent her screenshots of my message history (after doing a heavy edit) but I purposefully left one message in there from a girl. She had opened up a jewellery shop in town and wanted me to visit her. High quality social proofing message. Drove my ex insane. "Why are you talking to her? She's a fucking trust fund kid!! Fucking slut"

Your default mode in LTR/marriage should be normal loving communication, teasing etc (no dread game). You should pepper some dread here and there, especially if your girl starts to misbehave. She needs to know you can fuck other girls, not that you are actually fucking other girls.

If you are not banging other girls and you want to instill dread, then accidentally showing her messages from other girls (like you just did) will do. If you are caught red-handed 2-3 times and she agrees to come back to you, stop pushing for it. You need to pull in the other direction.

You can only push so much before a girl breaks. Learn to be calibrated. If you were in a 7 years relationship with this girl (instead of 1) ie if attraction was not as high you would not have the same results.

Also cut the drama and ego-validating childish shit. It can backfire in very ugly ways you wouldn't guess. Avoid hurting her (and future girls) for no good reason. Also if you don't see a reasonable prospect of starting a family with her then don't take her back (or enter any other LTR in general).

Post: #44

(02-26-2019 08:06 PM)Cheatingcad Wrote:  There's nothing gamma about getting caught cheating and then roping a high quality girl back into your orbit. Getting caught cheating and remaining cool under pressure is quite the opposite of gamma, one would've thought. Especially in the West where even ugly girls have loads of options and do not have to settle for anything.

...

She has a passive, introverted and agreeable front, but underneath it is an intense plotter. She will go from pushover to tearing at my face with fingernails in a mere second. Explosive, violent temper.

The gamma accusations in previous comments quite ironically come across as quite gamma themselves. But I get it. Manipulative nobodies like me having success banging lots of women would be annoying for the supposed 'moral player' who is so incredibly moral because he cheats without getting caught. What Momma don't know won't hurt her, right?

We all need a bit of self-reflection here, even the supposed RVForum experts. Accusing someone who bangs lots of women as gamma just comes across as butthurt and weird.

It's not that you're banging a lot of women. I think most of us have made a genuine effort to give you good advice about how to manage your main while you run game on the side.

Still, it's the way you're presenting it that raises questions about where your inner game is at and if there's more going on than meets the eye. We've all done cringey shit. We all will do it again. It's OK. Self-awareness about it is as good as gold.

You tell us she's a high-quality woman...who tears at your face with her fingernails. I'm glad you worked it out, that's cool, but people are just trying to help you clean up your game. If your persona and frame are on-point for this kind of thing, she should be afraid to be caught digging through your phone, never mind assault you.

If I were in this position, I'd see how far I could push my bullshit to try to point her back to where she needs to be. Instead of "taking her back", I'd just tell her that after everything that's happened, I care about her and want her in the picture but need to take the temperature and see where things really are. Flip the script. You don't need to earn her trust, she needs to earn yours. The violent tantrums and the snooping were unacceptable behavior if she wants to be in your life. She needs to know, without being told, that she's the one who's a step away from finding all her stuff in a box on the curb, not you.

During this time, dick her like you're John Henry blasting a railroad tunnel and make time with you very rewarding, but also set up some stronger boundaries about your personal space and time. Take longer at the gym than usual. Don't play twenty questions about where you were or who you were with. Give yourself more room to do your own thing and make it normal. Change her thinking about the relationship and get her recalibrated to where she needs to be, which is that she's lucky to be on your schedule at all after all this drama.

Otherwise?

Post: #45

Gentleman, those last 3 posts were full of wisdom and good advice. I appreciate it. You've given me pause to think about how self-defeating this behaviour is. After having her back for 2 nights now, I'm getting bored again.

Perhaps all this is a game of childish hide and seek and ego validation, at a subconscious level. I hadn't self-analysed much beyond "I'm a man who needs variety, but I also like a stable girl at home. How can I balance this?"

I genuinely try to avoid confrontation in my normal life, and I genuinely felt terrible when I was caught. I had to scramble myself to maintain composure. But you're right, the rush of getting her back after potentially losing her is undeniable.

What I failed to acknowledge is how much I genuinely enjoy inflicting minor sexual torture on her. I realised this last night. I was banging her doggy style and I was having trouble cumming. I was confused because, previously, all I wanted was to get my dick in her again (she had not trouble making me cum prior to her leaving me).

The next part is weird. While simultaneously doggying her, I stuck my thumb in her asshole. She's an anal virgin. That's something I would never usually do because I can't stand the smell and look of shit. However, on this occasion I felt the need to punish her for trying to leave me. She cried out in pain and I could smell her shit. Her asshole was gaping and I think she borderline shat herself. Crucially, while she was crying and telling me how much it hurt, I came. We then snuggled and watched a movie and she seemed happy, although very embarrassed. I washed my thumb thoroughly, but she was mostly concerned that I still had her shit behind my thumb nail and was worried that I was turned off.