Post: #1

I was having this debate with a friend recently. Having lived in Italy, India, UK, Spain and Brazil.

I have found the friendships more genuine in Italy, India, Spain and Brazil compared with USA and UK.

Post: #2

Obviously gender relations between men and women are dysfunctional in my opinion in the anglosphere.

Post: #3

No. They are just more demonstrative, and quicker to be effusive about the friendship. Same thing is true in the FSU, where someone will call you moi brat and swear their undying bond to you and your family, then stab you in a lift 5 minutes later and steal your oyster card for the 5 roubles left on it, probably all still whilst calling you brother. I'd take an Englishman, or in a pinch an American as a friend over anyone else in the world.

Post: #4

In my opinion yes. I don't count the times you can start a discussion or go out with an "Anglo" showing all signs of a friendship , but with time finding out that all those stuff were very superficial. It is a cultural thing maybe. For all of those who worked with English/American people coming from another country and for a few years, it is very disturbing when you realize it. I also believe it is due to the fact that these countries have always been capitalists without any other model.

Post: #5

(11-21-2018 02:02 PM)Soy Jooce Wrote:  I was having this debate with a friend recently. Having lived in Italy, India, UK, Spain and Brazil.

I have found the friendships more genuine in Italy, India, Spain and Brazil compared with USA and UK.

I can speak about Italy: there is a big selfishness most of people are friendly to get benefits from you. I wouldn't say is the best place for having friends.

From what I heard in anglo countries like UK, Australia people are superficial showing often a fake kindness in order to be kind, even they don't like you.

Post: #6

Friendship is a false term. There are people who share your goals and values and there are people who do not. There is not such thing as a friendship.

Post: #7

I strongly disagree.

In more introverted countries like Japan, parts of Scandinavia and Eastern Europe, people are generally less friendly, colder and there is less social opportunity so it is more difficult to make friends.

In more extroverted countries like the Philippines or Mexico where people of all ages socialize all day and most people wouldn't think twice about things like letting relative strangers in to their house to eat their food, being friendly is an expectation so it's actually quite difficult to cross that line from being friendly (ie. a normal person) to being a genuine friend. It is easier to make semi-friends but still very difficult to make real friends, especially if you are an outsider.

In somewhere like the UK, I think there is a great balance between those two extremes. There is enough friendliness and social opportunity to make friends but not so much so you know that if you have what resembles a friendship with somebody, they really are a friend and really do care about you.

A good example would be that British people are quite uncomfortable doing things like going out eating and drinking with their officemates and will do it only if their boss or a busybody forces them to. Whereas a work group from the Philippines or Mexico would be in their element and will naturally organize it themselves. So, you know if a British person wants to go out for a meal or have a beer with you, they probably really are a friend whereas to a Filipino or Mexican, it's no big deal. The Eastern European or Scandinavian in my example's boss wouldn't even consider forcing them out to drink together.

The USA skews a bit more towards the extroverted side but the loss in clarity and genuineness is made up for by the increased social opportunity and is still a pretty good balance.

Disclaimer: I am from the UK and I am most experienced and knowledgeable about British social customs so am biassed. I choose to live abroad and this is actually one of the few elements of the UK that I miss. I also do not have extensive experience of all the countries that I used as examples but even if my examples are slightly inaccurate, my point still stands.

Post: #8

Excellent replies! Glad I asked this question.

Post: #9

I second this! What Mage said!

Post: #10

Didn’t the UK Government create a state department to deal with loneliness?

That says it all.

Post: #11

(11-24-2018 10:43 AM)N°6 Wrote:  Didn’t the UK Government create a state department to deal with loneliness?

That says it all.

Link? My impression of traditional UK male bonding is going to the (Irish) pub, drinking beers and watching football/rugby

Post: #12

I would say friendship is friendship everywhere, but it's true that in the Anglosphere, particularly from the middle classes up, there is this fake cold stepfordwifish pod-people-like "niceness" that can be off-putting for the outsider. I think it's the result of cultures that value politeness and fear tension confrontation but at the same time are not genuinely warm.

I don't know Japan as well but it's probably similar in that sense. Like I said in Anglo countries it also depends a lot on social class. An American ghetto or a "sink estate" in Britain would be almost the opposite.

Post: #13

I massively disagree with OP on all accounts.

I love my bros and I’m straight Anglosphere... UK and US.

Post: #14

Hmm..it depends. I generally find Americans fake as fuck. "Friendly but not your friend" is the best way to describe them. They'll go out with you for a beer but don't expect anything deeper than that.

Euros are definitely more open to friendships, I find. The Anglosphere is individualism on steroids so that may be why it is harder to form genuine friendships there.

Post: #15

(11-22-2018 05:30 AM)H1N1 Wrote:  No. They are just more demonstrative, and quicker to be effusive about the friendship. Same thing is true in the FSU, where someone will call you moi brat and swear their undying bond to you and your family, then stab you in a lift 5 minutes later and steal your oyster card for the 5 roubles left on it, probably all still whilst calling you brother. I'd take an Englishman, or in a pinch an American as a friend over anyone else in the world.

I think it's time to put down The Economist.

Post: #16

(11-26-2018 11:25 AM)TigerMandingo Wrote:  Hmm..it depends. I generally find Americans fake as fuck. "Friendly but not your friend" is the best way to describe them. They'll go out with you for a beer but don't expect anything deeper than that.

Euros are definitely more open to friendships, I find. The Anglosphere is individualism on steroids so that may be why it is harder to form genuine friendships there.

+1

Post: #17

When I lived in Korea it was 100% social circle there. People would mainly hangout with people from work (and even go drinking with their bosses). Retired men I knew complained about extreme loneliness because work colleagues forget they exist after they stopped coming to work. So to me Korean friendships seem very shallow. "Changed jobs / retired? You're not my friend anymore!". This might factor into the country's high suicide rate.

It's harder to pin down Georgia. I never really saw workers hanging out with each other much. And I get their impression their friends are often from an early clique (such as elementary school) or even their relatives. Then they work a lot but don't seem to be warm with each other.

Then in Taiwan - there kind of seems to be a lot of loners here. Pop in into any 7-11 / Family Mart or even walk past a neighborhood bar (not a tourist trap like Brass Monkey) and one can see many solo man / solo woman just chilling. In some ways I prefer this over what I saw in Korea (Koreans would never do anything alone so you would get a group of 4 guys walking into a Family Mart and start shouting among themselves).

Post: #18

https://www.gq.com/story/why-men-are-lonely

UK Minister of Loneliness

Post: #19

I highly suspect:

Americans are probably the most social, genuine, warm people ever. However the huge self promotional, "hustle" vibe makes many non Americans feel it's fake.

Euro and to a greater extent EE people are probably legit as well.

Anglo(UK, Aus, and definitely NZ) people have very weak friendships.

Post: #20

American friendships revolve around hanging out on the weekend for a couple of beers or to watch a football game. There is also constant pressure to "be positive" and so you can't really open up to someone, which is a stepping tone to a true friendship.

Lots and LOTS of lonely people in America. Few talk about this.

Post: #21

(11-26-2018 02:50 PM)TigerMandingo Wrote:  American friendships revolve around hanging out on the weekend for a couple of beers or to watch a football game. There is also constant pressure to "be positive" and so you can't really open up to someone, which is a stepping tone to a true friendship.

Lots and LOTS of lonely people in America. Few talk about this.

From what I've seen of Americans vs Kiwis. Americans are totally not like that at all, while NZ is what you've described to a T.

Post: #22

Upper middle class English can have weird distant friendships; otherwise no, I don’t think there’s much problem with male friendships in Anglo world

Post: #23

(11-26-2018 02:50 PM)TigerMandingo Wrote:  American friendships revolve around hanging out on the weekend for a couple of beers or to watch a football game. There is also constant pressure to "be positive" and so you can't really open up to someone, which is a stepping tone to a true friendship.

Lots and LOTS of lonely people in America. Few talk about this.

I agree.

Post: #24

(11-26-2018 02:50 PM)TigerMandingo Wrote:  American friendships revolve around hanging out on the weekend for a couple of beers or to watch a football game. There is also constant pressure to "be positive" and so you can't really open up to someone, which is a stepping tone to a true friendship.

Lots and LOTS of lonely people in America. Few talk about this.

Part of the reason why the U.S. has the highest rate of mental illness in the world.

https://www.newsweek.com/nearly-1-5-amer...ear-230608

Post: #25

(11-27-2018 08:39 AM)Soy Jooce Wrote:  

(11-26-2018 02:50 PM)TigerMandingo Wrote:  American friendships revolve around hanging out on the weekend for a couple of beers or to watch a football game. There is also constant pressure to "be positive" and so you can't really open up to someone, which is a stepping tone to a true friendship.

Lots and LOTS of lonely people in America. Few talk about this.

Part of the reason why the U.S. has the highest rate of mental illness in the world.

https://www.newsweek.com/nearly-1-5-amer...ear-230608

Meh I feel other things come into place. Multiculturalism and lack of job security. Then there's also a shit ton of Americans doing weed, meth and other drugs that scramble their brains.

Japan on other hand has amazing job security and is very homogeneous and only has 1/3rd of the statistical mental illnesses (but strangely seems more open to suicide).