Post: #51

(11-19-2018 09:33 PM)monster Wrote:  

(11-19-2018 09:31 PM)Rhyme or Reason Wrote:  You must be a hit at parties.

Ask your employer to be accountable for your wages, not your customers.

and then the prices are going to jump on the menu anyways, so you're going to end up roughly paying the same, plus service will be far shittier. And we all know that this isn't going to change in the near future, so what's the point?

Post: #52

Tipping can provide benefits too (good/special treatment if you're a repeat customer).

Post: #53

(11-19-2018 09:33 PM)monster Wrote:  

(11-19-2018 09:31 PM)Rhyme or Reason Wrote:  You must be a hit at parties.

Ask your employer to be accountable for your wages, not your customers.

Not Getting It™ on display.

I don't ask anyone for anything. I do my job, and in the course of so doing, I naturally bring out the desire for customers to tip me because I'm helping them have fun. I'm good at what I do because people actually enjoy my company and the service I provide. I could be a dick, or a fucking weirdo and guess what, I probably wouldn't make nearly the amount of tips I make.

This job is for people with social skills, which is why it doesn't shock me that most of the critics of tipping lack social skills.

Post: #54

(11-19-2018 09:33 PM)monster Wrote:  

(11-19-2018 09:31 PM)Rhyme or Reason Wrote:  You must be a hit at parties.

Ask your employer to be accountable for your wages, not your customers.

You realize that would just cause the prices to go up by the same amount that it is customary to tip, the difference is that if service truly sucks tipping is not required, where as if the prices were raised you would still be forced to pay the difference, so tipping actually works towards the customers benefit?

Post: #55

How would you guys recommend translating a tip to a bartender on the first drink into better/priority service throughout the night? It has never worked for me but this is in the UK and Philippines, where tipping isn't such a big deal.

Post: #56

(11-19-2018 09:40 PM)Rhyme or Reason Wrote:  

(11-19-2018 09:33 PM)monster Wrote:  

(11-19-2018 09:31 PM)Rhyme or Reason Wrote:  You must be a hit at parties.

Ask your employer to be accountable for your wages, not your customers.

Not Getting It™ on display.

I don't ask anyone for anything. I do my job, and in the course of so doing, I naturally bring out the desire for customers to tip me because I'm helping them have fun. I'm good at what I do because people actually enjoy my company and the service I provide. I could be a dick, or a fucking weirdo and guess what, I probably wouldn't make nearly the amount of tips I make.

This job is for people with social skills, which is why it doesn't shock me that most of the critics of tipping lack social skills.

Also on display: basic entitled millenial attitude of bartenders who think they're the most important thing the universe has seen since sliced bread.

Post: #57

Millenials invented tipping culture now?

Post: #58

(11-19-2018 09:41 PM)Repo Wrote:  

(11-19-2018 09:33 PM)monster Wrote:  

(11-19-2018 09:31 PM)Rhyme or Reason Wrote:  You must be a hit at parties.

Ask your employer to be accountable for your wages, not your customers.

You realize that would just cause the prices to go up by the same amount that it is customary to tip, the difference is that if service truly sucks tipping is not required, where as if the prices were raised you would still be forced to pay the difference, so tipping actually works towards the customers benefit?

Not really. There would be increased efficiency through more productive labor and systems.

Some states have a min wage floor like CA that's $11 for service workers.

From WSJ https://www.wsj.com/articles/what-should...1528988400[/quote]:

Quote:Boston bartender James Lamont returned to Massachusetts (with a $3 min wage) last year after several months in California. He found that it takes 40 hours a week on the East Coast to make the same money as he did in 33 hours a week on the West Coast.

“I’d much rather have my employer be responsible for paying me a living wage instead of essentially scrounging for handouts from the guests in the restaurant,” Mr. Lamont said.

Post: #59

(11-19-2018 09:56 PM)monster Wrote:  

(11-19-2018 09:41 PM)Repo Wrote:  

(11-19-2018 09:33 PM)monster Wrote:  

(11-19-2018 09:31 PM)Rhyme or Reason Wrote:  You must be a hit at parties.

Ask your employer to be accountable for your wages, not your customers.

You realize that would just cause the prices to go up by the same amount that it is customary to tip, the difference is that if service truly sucks tipping is not required, where as if the prices were raised you would still be forced to pay the difference, so tipping actually works towards the customers benefit?

Not really. There would be increased efficiency through more productive labor and systems.

Some states have a min wage floor like CA that's $11 for service workers.

From WSJ https://www.wsj.com/articles/what-should...1528988400

:

Quote:Boston bartender James Lamont returned to Massachusetts (with a $3 min wage) last year after several months in California. He found that it takes 40 hours a week on the East Coast to make the same money as he did in 33 hours a week on the West Coast.

“I’d much rather have my employer be responsible for paying me a living wage instead of essentially scrounging for handouts from the guests in the restaurant,” Mr. Lamont said.

[/quote]

Post the full article because that quote doesnt support your "not really comment". Its blocked by a paywall.

Post: #60

(11-19-2018 09:55 PM)Repo Wrote:  Millenials invented tipping culture now?

Not at all, but millenials have managed to elevate the perception of jobs like bartending, professional twittering, waitressing, and "social media expert" to societal positions once only esteemed by kings, queens and other noblemen.

Post: #61

(11-19-2018 10:00 PM)Repo Wrote:  Post the full article because that quote doesnt support your "not really comment". Its blocked by a paywall.

Use a paywall blocker browser extension.

Post: #62

If I cannot tip then I do not go out, I even tip when I order nonalcoholic drinks when I am gaming girls at night. If you want to be a cheapskate eat fast food or cook at home and buy liquor from the package store. If you tip a bartender, especially if you are trying to get laid with a first date, it will help. Heartiste is wrong about this and must be running out of shit to write, not tipping when it is expected is a great way to not get laid. Heartiste's best material was before 2012, he is off his game with this no tipping bullshit.

Post: #63

If you're in the industry correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the true beneficiaries of tipping culture are hot waitresses and cheap customers. The rest of us dutifully pay the obligatory 20% almost regardless of the quality of the service. And restaurant owners are just pawns in the market like the rest of us.

There was a big restauranteur in NYC a couple years ago who tried a non tipping policy, paying his servers a higher wage and pricing the food higher. The experiment was a failure, I believe because the customers didn't like it (and probably the hot waitresses), and I believe us yanks are stuck with the current system.

Post: #64

(11-19-2018 10:00 PM)monster Wrote:  Not at all, but millenials have managed to elevate the perception of jobs like bartending, professional twittering, waitressing, and "social media expert" to societal positions once only esteemed by kings, queens and other noblemen.

Do you mean like this guy?



I make fun of those guys all the time. All the bartenders I know that have a decent head on their shoulders do too. In fact at work I joke with customers frequently about what faggots craft bartenders are and how craft cocktails is a faggy fad for faggots.

Actually, I could (and might) write a post on the history of the american bar and why it was a manly profession for generations, which has been ruined by sexual 'egalitarianism'.

Post: #65

No.

Post: #66

If you go to a restaurant in a major city where the servers are really old, it's usually because they make a shit ton in tips, sometimes over 6 figures - go to Lawrys in Los Angeles and see how old the servers are. They're in a good position and it's not worth their while moving to another job.

Post: #67

I agree with Heartiste. When I first read him I thought his writing was over the top, but now I think he's right about pretty much everything.

American tipping culture is one of the things I don't like about living in Mexico. It's retarded. You're all just following some gay social convention. Yeah I don't have a lot money, so a lot of you don't get it.

I'm already spending a lot of money to go out somewhere nice and then you guys want 15% more, what the fuck? Now people here are even saying 20%? Minimum?? What the shit? OK Mr. Bigshot.

To be honest if you have the right attitude you can do whatever you want in front of girls and it doesn't matter. That's mainly what Heartiste teaches anyway.

I know this from experience because I went on a first date with a girl in a bar. The bill comes, we split it and then I didn't leave a tip at all. It's a bar, so I didn't even know you were supposed to be leave a tip in a bar? I'm still confused by it, the waitress just brought over some bottles of craft beer to our table that I could have got from the bar myself. That doesn't happen in English pubs/bars.

The girl is a bartender herself and so she was complaining at me I didn't leave a tip and tried to explain it to me. but I just explained how I do things and still took her home and banged her. She disagrees obviously because she's a bartender but it doesn't matter. I don't try and impress girls with money or having nice manners.

Now when I take her to bars she has to leave huge tips which I still refuse to do. I will tip in a restaurant though. I normally tip just above or below 10% if its good service, but apparently that's not enough and she's always adding loads more to my tip.

So yeah even though I come off like a stubborn guy who refuses to adapt to the culture and just does whatever he wants, that attitude has only seemed to make girls more rather than less attracted to me.

Post: #68

(11-19-2018 09:39 PM)nek Wrote:  Tipping can provide benefits too (good/special treatment if you're a repeat customer).

To add to this, I'm a picky eater myself, and when I want my food a certain way, I always get it that way in my subsequent visits after consistently tipping well. Plus I've gotten big discounts too, usually free drinks but I've even walked out of restaurants where I get free food and just paid for a drink!

Post: #69

(11-20-2018 12:34 AM)RedPillUK Wrote:  I agree with Heartiste. When I first read him I thought his writing was over the top, but now I think he's right about pretty much everything.

American tipping culture is one of the things I don't like about living in Mexico. It's retarded. You're all just following some gay social convention. Yeah I don't have a lot money, so a lot of you don't get it.

I'm already spending a lot of money to go out somewhere nice and then you guys want 15% more, what the fuck? Now people here are even saying 20%? Minimum?? What the shit? OK Mr. Bigshot.

To be honest if you have the right attitude you can do whatever you want in front of girls and it doesn't matter. That's mainly what Heartiste teaches anyway.

I know this from experience because I went on a first date with a girl in a bar. The bill comes, we split it and then I didn't leave a tip at all. It's a bar, so I didn't even know you were supposed to be leave a tip in a bar? I'm still confused by it, the waitress just brought over some bottles of craft beer to our table that I could have got from the bar myself. That doesn't happen in English pubs/bars.

The girl is a bartender herself and so she was complaining at me I didn't leave a tip and tried to explain it to me. but I just explained how I do things and still took her home and banged her. She disagrees obviously because she's a bartender but it doesn't matter. I don't try and impress girls with money or having nice manners.

Now when I take her to bars she has to leave huge tips which I still refuse to do. I will tip in a restaurant though. I normally tip just above or below 10% if its good service, but apparently that's not enough and she's always adding loads more to my tip.

So yeah even though I come off like a stubborn guy who refuses to adapt to the culture and just does whatever he wants, that attitude has only seemed to make girls more rather than less attracted to me.

Heartiste's ideas are getting more and more out there with time, case in point above. If you're agreeing with him on "pretty much everything", all that means is that you haven't been exposing yourself to a sufficiently broad range of ideas. Because his ideas are appealing to a narrower segment of the general population every year.

Are you familiar with game theory? What you're doing above is essentially "cheating". You have a server who fulfills their obligations as laid out in the social contract, and you're stiffing them for your own benefit. You're the convict who's ratting out his cohort to get a shorter sentence, and this time you lucked ouyt - the cohort didn't rat back. But this chick sees it and other people see it, and everyone knows that you're a cheat. Every computer model and real world experiment shows that variants of "tit for tat" are the optimal strategy. So, just like the proverbial convict who rats, you will no doubt get a short term gain. But it will come back to bite you in the ass tenfold.

Post: #70

The two conventional arguments is that tipping rewards good service and supplements the income of people who have below par wages. In North America, the minimum wage for servers is lower than the general minimum wage. In Australia, there is no difference and there is no tipping.

The other story, probably apocryphal, is that "tip" means "To Insure Promptness", is good service now and/or in the future.

For a sit down meal the standard is 15%, maybe a bit more if the bill is under $20. For drinks, cabbies and pizza deliver I usually round up and then add a buck or two.

If you are actually trying to game a waitress I don't see how deviating from the standard does anything but hurt your chances.

Post: #71

(11-19-2018 09:50 PM)monster Wrote:  

(11-19-2018 09:40 PM)Rhyme or Reason Wrote:  

(11-19-2018 09:33 PM)monster Wrote:  

(11-19-2018 09:31 PM)Rhyme or Reason Wrote:  You must be a hit at parties.

Ask your employer to be accountable for your wages, not your customers.

Not Getting It™ on display.

I don't ask anyone for anything. I do my job, and in the course of so doing, I naturally bring out the desire for customers to tip me because I'm helping them have fun. I'm good at what I do because people actually enjoy my company and the service I provide. I could be a dick, or a fucking weirdo and guess what, I probably wouldn't make nearly the amount of tips I make.

This job is for people with social skills, which is why it doesn't shock me that most of the critics of tipping lack social skills.

Also on display: basic entitled millenial attitude of bartenders who think they're the most important thing the universe has seen since sliced bread.

Post: #72

As someone with actual experience, I think I better correct some inaccuracies.

First, federal law states that tipped employees are entitled to minimum wage, if their tip income falls below the income they would have made. So even the worst of the worst waitstaff still make minimum wage. Next, it is easy to make well above minimum wage if you are competent and have the right attitude. Sure hot chicks will out earn guys at bars and breasteruants, but it is not surprising for a guy to out-earn a woman at family restaurant or at something more classy. I made more than the women at the place I worked at. Why do you think there is no demand to end tipping from the waitstaff or restaurants?

It creates a true meritocracy in service, something that might fall off if everyone went to a flat wage. If you can only afford to eat because you don't tip then be grateful, because removing tipping would indeed price you out of the market.

Post: #73

Tipping does get you laid. Both directly and indirectly.

Post: #74

There's a lot of places now where you can order your food and sit down, removing the middleman and tipping altogether. Granted these are more prevalent in the big cities.

Boston has a good number of Taquerias. I think these are great for a date actually. Think Chipotle but way better. Faster service too.

Post: #75

In France there is no (anymore) tipping culture because the service is always included in the bill.

However I will very often tip, like 2 euros out of a 10 euros drink (20 %). I have never seen any of my friends, or people I hung out with, tip. EVER.

Because I do, I get to skip entry, or even sometimes free drinks from the bartenders. Add some banter, social proof, and voilà.

Don't be cheap. In general people who work in the service industry are not making several 10s of grands, and tips are shared among coworkers. Your 4 euros out of your 20 euros of drink will get back to you in many ways.


TLDR: French people don't tip (especially students), and can pay several hundreds for a bottle of vodka and not tip anything. Do not be like them.