Post: #76

Yea, but rich people are cheap. That's how they stay rich. It's just about being smart with your money.

Post: #77

If someone really didn't want to cook then there's a better alternative: personal chef (not to be confused with a private chef ~ someone who lives with you). Personal Chefs nowadays can be priced out to $20/dish but you will need a decent sized freezer to store the prepared food they drop off.


Or you can just move to Asia like me where cafe food is under $5 and it's pretty decent.

Post: #78

Personally... I have stopped tipping female bartenders are bars.

Women usually dress up skimpy, show tits off and do nothing but poor beer most of the night and mix cheap whisky with coke.

There is no real service provided... And most of them definitely think they are hot shit for it.

My service isn't gonna change whether I tip or not because there isn't much to opening a bottle of beer.

Some other simp can subsidize her paycheck on that one.

Someone mentioned that they pay older wait staff better.
I do this.
The middle and woman at waffle house that's friendly deserves my tip more than the 22 year old college girl wearing a padded bra that's a size smaller than she needs.


I also have a problem with tipping simply because.
Who cares if the bottle cost 100 or 500
Who cares if my dish was 13 or 70

Why do you think you deserve a higher tip, because the item you walked over cost more?

Post: #79

This thread in a nutshell:

Post: #80

Coffee Shop/Ice Cream Parlor/Burger Stand: Change for smiling, $1 if you make even a small attempt to be friendly or pleasant, otherwise nothing.

Taxis: 10%

Food Delivery: 10%

Waitresses at Serve-Yourself Buffets: 10%

Normal Waitresses: 20%

Bartenders (Cash) $1 for drinks under $8, $2 for $8-$15 range, $3 for $15+

Bartenders (Tab): 25%+ for excellent service/enjoyable conversation, 20% for normal service, 15% for rude/entitled attitude/bad service, 25%-60%+ for excellent service + getting me drunk + taking a couple items off the tab

Barber/Masseuse/"Personalized" Services: 25% for a satisfactory+ job, 20% for a bad job.

Movers: $5-$20 per guy depending on how big the move was.

Street Performers: $1-$5 if your act gets me to stop.

Bellhops/Valet Parking Guys: No more than $2 because I'd prefer to move my own shit 100% of the time and I hate you for existing.

Bathroom Attendants: $1 for every five pisses if you don't shove soap/towels in my face or try to turn my faucet on for me.

Beggars: Up to $5 for guys who hit me with a truly compelling story of why they need the money and at least appear not to be on drugs (<1% success rate)

Girl Scouts/Child Fundraisers: I don't want the shit they are selling, but if they can stop me in my tracks and are brave enough to make eye contact I always give them $1 because daygame is hard. #respect

Post: #81

Not tipping is kind of like the new affirmative consent laws.

You take a generations old social convention that is filled with subtlety and a great way to learn social skills, and try to turn it into a uniform, boring, regimented routine.

Can I kiss you? We are going to the bedroom now if that is okay, and it doesn't mean that we will have sex, just that we are changing rooms now. Okay, we are in the bedroom, can I brush your breast with my arm when I put it around you?

The affirmative consent laws basically make nonverbal communication illegal.

I don't get why people flip out over tipping. It is one of the few areas where the customer has full control over setting the price of the service they receive. Where else do you get to do that?

It is a profoundly social custom, as Rhyme or Reason is trying to tell you in his boots on the ground posts.

For men, tipping is almost a rite of passage, a bit of pride that you 'take care of the people who take care of you.'

I worked in the industry for years, and learned so much from it. It is as Rhyme and Reason said. If you give someone good service, it is usually a head case who doesn't tip.

If you give someone bad service, you don't deserve a tip.

This is not complicated on that level, and all these tone deaf posts about 'just charge more' are missing the point of the social dance that happens in a bar or restaurant.

A good waiter is like an artist, and you can show up frazzled and stressed out, and he can put you at ease, make sure what you need is delivered just as you are about to ask for it, make you look good for your date, steer you away from questionable specials. He can totally change your mood for the better if he is a good one, and social skills like these are something everyone should learn at some point.

All the points about shit waiters and tit bartenders who expect big tips just for showing up with an attitude are spot on. I am not saying serving staff deserve any money just for breathing.

Stiff the fuckers if they ain't trying. That's the point of tipping, to give you control of the experience.

I am actually harder on waitstaff than most people because I have done it, and not only have I not tipped waiters, but I once left no money for a meal and a long note on the back of the check about how terrible the waitress was and how she should have to pay for my meal. I also left my name, address, and phone number and told them to call me if they had a problem.

Never heard a peep.

Don't know what else to say. If you want a robotic world with drone dining experiences and affirmative consent, and always believe the woman and take all the shades of meaning out of social interactions, then I will leave you to it.

What's up with that faggy Japanese tea ceremony, just pour the tea, lady and leave!

There will always be customers who convince themselves they have a right not to tip because they are cheapskates with powerful hamsters, that comes with the territory, and it didn't bother me that much when I was a waiter because other people were big tippers, and it pretty much evened out in the end.

But just not to tip is childish. That is what high schoolers do on prom night. Mom and dad gave me money for the meal and the tip, but if I don't *have* to tip, I won't, and more money for me, right?

And having more money is always better, right?

Post: #82

(11-20-2018 11:39 AM)debeguiled Wrote:  I don't get why people flip out over tipping. It is one of the few areas where the customer has full control over setting the price of the service they receive. Where else do you get to do that?

In theory, yes. But in practice the bad servers complain when they don't get tipped. And often the public thinks you're cheap when you leave a bad server a bad tip, even though it was bad serving.

And I've been in many groups where the server is astonishingly bad messing up plates, forgetting drinks, etc and I explain my rationale for leaving a cheap tip and the others in the group look at me like an alien, and that it's customary to give 20% come hell or high water.

Jimmy Garappolo has joined #TeamNoTip and despite leaving this waitress an accumulated $19 dollars in tips the waitress felt it was too cheap so has to blast him. Jimmy's getting all the slack and social pushback but how do we know the waitress actually did a good job and deserved more? How do we know she actually was hospitable, checked in on them frequently, and brought the right items promptly?
https://brobible.com/sports/article/jimm...-evidence/

Post: #83

(11-20-2018 01:26 AM)Number one bummer Wrote:  First, federal law states that tipped employees are entitled to minimum wage, if their tip income falls below the income they would have made. So even the worst of the worst waitstaff still make minimum wage.

Yes, but in most states (i think 45 of them) service worker minimum wage is 2 or 3 bucks per hour. So yes, they have to be paid min wage but min wage is significantly different than the standard min wage of 8.15 or whatever it is now.

This has encourages many restaurants to OVERSTAFF themselves. I've gone in to many restaurants that have 2-3 diners but 4-5 wait staff. If a restaurant overstaffs itself, it's the fault of the manager/owner that the waitstaff isn't making as much as they want, and also the fault of the waitstaff for putting up with it.

Post: #84

(11-20-2018 01:25 PM)monster Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 01:26 AM)Number one bummer Wrote:  First, federal law states that tipped employees are entitled to minimum wage, if their tip income falls below the income they would have made. So even the worst of the worst waitstaff still make minimum wage.

Yes, but in most states (i think 45 of them) service worker minimum wage is 2 or 3 bucks per hour. So yes, they have to be paid min wage but min wage is significantly different than the standard min wage of 8.15 or whatever it is now.

This has encourages many restaurants to OVERSTAFF themselves. I've gone in to many restaurants that have 2-3 diners but 4-5 wait staff. If a restaurant overstaffs itself, it's the fault of the manager/owner that the waitstaff isn't making as much as they want, and also the fault of the waitstaff for putting up with it.

Maybe this site will help explain it. Tip laws by states per US Dep. of Labor

Federal minimum wage is $7.25. The minimum cash wage for tipped workers is $2.13.

Lets say I work 8 hours at $2.13 which is $17.04 and I only receive $10 in tips. If I am under $7.25 x hours worked(8), which is $58, then the employer has to pay the difference. So 58-27.04 is $30.96, is what the employer has to pay me to bring my wages up to the federal minimum. In 33 states they operate off the state wage which is higher than the federal minimum, which means you are entitled to higher pay if you don't receive enough tips.

Post: #85

If they are incredibly on-time on things, yeah.

Plus the tip doesn't only go to waitresses, also goes to chef, cooks, etc but restaurant as a whole.

And I want to wish the restaurant well.

Post: #86

(11-20-2018 01:13 PM)monster Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 11:39 AM)debeguiled Wrote:  I don't get why people flip out over tipping. It is one of the few areas where the customer has full control over setting the price of the service they receive. Where else do you get to do that?

In theory, yes. But in practice the bad servers complain when they don't get tipped. And often the public thinks you're cheap when you leave a bad server a bad tip, even though it was bad serving.

And I've been in many groups where the server is astonishingly bad messing up plates, forgetting drinks, etc and I explain my rationale for leaving a cheap tip and the others in the group look at me like an alien, and that it's customary to give 20% come hell or high water.

Jimmy Garappolo has joined #TeamNoTip and despite leaving this waitress an accumulated $19 dollars in tips the waitress felt it was too cheap so has to blast him. Jimmy's getting all the slack and social pushback but how do we know the waitress actually did a good job and deserved more? How do we know she actually was hospitable, checked in on them frequently, and brought the right items promptly?
https://brobible.com/sports/article/jimm...-evidence/

You make a good point about social media. That changes the equation.

However, I get shamed all the time for how I treat cashiers and counter workers simply because I expect them to do their jobs. I don't really care. If they don't want to deal with people, they should get a job in a basement in front of a monitor somewhere and not force me to deal with them.

Hold your frame. Tell them what you expect. Tell them off if you have to. Tell their bosses.

This is what I tell their bosses:

"I want them to be friendly, helpful, and competent. If they aren't friendly I can handle that. If they don't go out of their way to be helpful, that is handle-able too. But if they can't even bother to be competent at their job then I come to you. I don't think I am being unreasonable or asking too much."

Do you know how many people rush in to show everyone how much nicer than I am they are?

"Oh I don't mind waiting."

I do if I know there is no good reason for it.

"Cook it anyway you want, I'm fine."

I'm not. Cook it how I like it, not how you like it.

You could try explaining to your friends that they are not helping lame waiters by having no standards. They are just extending the lameness.

I used to buy a sausage egg muffin at a place that was on my way to work, and I asked the old lady behind the counter to microwave it for 45 seconds. Well this old bat thought that was too long, so she would do it for less and there would be cold spots on the inside when I ate it.

It was the only convenient place to get a cheap muffin like it for me, so I couldn't just go somewhere else.

So I went to work on the old bag, never rude, but always saying what I wanted, and sometimes reminding her she didn't do it last time, and even telling her co-workers that she cooks my food how she likes it, not how I like it.

(This last one caused her to tilt her head back and howl like a coyote: "It's not truuuuueeeeeee." Why did she do that? Because it was true, and she thought she could win a battle of wills with me and eventually I would let her do things her way, even though it affected me and not her.)

So I watched her like a hawk, and always called her on it if she cooked it too little.

It took weeks until one day I started to tell her to cook my muffin for 45 seconds and she said, "I know that, you act like I'm stupid, I know it's 45 seconds.)

This was as close as she was going to get to an apology. We are friends now, and she learned that when you work with the public, it is their opinion that matters, not yours. And I learned that if you are being reasonable, just keep pushing for what you want and don't feel bad and cave in to the old lady because she is a lady and she is old.

I didn't used to be able to do this. I also used to hate going to their bosses because I felt like a snitch. Now I am fine with both and I don't care what ignorant virtue signalers next to me do or say.

This kind of negotiation of expectations and responsibilities is what cultural life is all about. It is all about haggling on some level or another.

I agree that it would suck if you got blasted all over the internet and falsely accused of being a cheapskate, but it would toughen you up too.

And don't let your friend define and frame reality for you. Fight back. It may feel like little shit and pointless to defend, but if it is pointless, why are OTHER people making such a big deal about it?

As an ex-waiter, I am hereby and personally absolving you of leaving 20 percent no matter what. That is ridiculous. 20 percent for excellent service. 15 percent for good service. 10 percent for passable service. An insulting penny for bad service.

Stop caving in to your friends. Tip how you see fit!

Post: #87

(11-20-2018 01:54 PM)ErectedZenith Wrote:  If they are incredibly on-time on things, yeah.

Plus the tip doesn't only go to waitresses, also goes to chef, cooks, etc but restaurant as a whole.

And I want to wish the restaurant well.

Yeah, and a lot of the time the waiters are feeling the same pressure to share their tips with bus boys or dishwashers who did a shitty job that night.

Post: #88

Waitressing is the most common starter job for women.

Well over 50% of American women have either waitressed or have a close relative (mother, sister) who waitressed.

If you go out with such a woman, and the % is super high even of rich girls, then you need to tip or you'll face an additional big shit test.

In a more perfect world, the waitstaff would get paid a living wage. My Euro relatives who come to USA resent that the bill is 30 or more percent larger than the listed prices (after tax and tip). They are right. It's BS.

And fuck giving any additional money to a restaurant that already has a service charge.

But, we don't live in a perfect world. Each one of us has to consider at tipping time the huge shit test that comes if there is no tip.

Post: #89

(11-19-2018 12:34 AM)wi30 Wrote:  That article makes rain man seem socially adjusted.

100% of people who leave shitty tips have never worked a job that earned tips.

Is the extra four dollars really going to break your bank?

I tip minimum 20% unless something went seriously wrong.

I lose a lot of respect for someone if they leave a shitty tip.

When did 20% become the norm?

Post: #90

(11-20-2018 10:07 AM)BaatumMania Wrote:  If someone really didn't want to cook then there's a better alternative: personal chef (not to be confused with a private chef ~ someone who lives with you). Personal Chefs nowadays can be priced out to $20/dish but you will need a decent sized freezer to store the prepared food they drop off.


Or you can just move to Asia like me where cafe food is under $5 and it's pretty decent.

They don't tip in most Asian countries. Japan for example has extremely good service and they refuse to accept tips. Thay jaded me for any sort of tipping culture stateside, especially when the server has an entitled attitude.

Post: #91

Actually I've worked in a service job with tips and to this day I leave 10% and often 0% (especially if eating alone without others to judge me).

Thing is I saw it as a job ~ not as a replacement for a career or a livelihood. Problem is a lot of people are enabling other to make bad lifestyle choices. It's the same culture where people let heroin and meth junkies live their lives without interference (until they commit crime to fund their habit). I apologize if this is an analogy fallacy.

If you're making $40,000 a year at age 18 from tips you have no incentive to study or attain a real livelihood. Then when 18 year old later becomes unemployable (because of aging or maybe a service sector decline) then they're just going to whine, will collect welfare (for them and probably their 1-4 kids) and possibly even resort to crime.

Post: #92

(11-20-2018 02:40 PM)cascadecombo Wrote:  

(11-19-2018 12:34 AM)wi30 Wrote:  That article makes rain man seem socially adjusted.

100% of people who leave shitty tips have never worked a job that earned tips.

Is the extra four dollars really going to break your bank?

I tip minimum 20% unless something went seriously wrong.

I lose a lot of respect for someone if they leave a shitty tip.

When did 20% become the norm?

When millennial whined to their parents and at age 24 - age 30 got a "shared account" with their parent's life savings It's easier to spend other people's money.

Post: #93

(11-20-2018 02:40 PM)Rotten Wrote:  In a more perfect world, the waitstaff would get paid a living wage. My Euro relatives who come to USA resent that the bill is 30 or more percent larger than the listed prices (after tax and tip). They are right. It's BS.

Some regions and countries are worse than that. The price on the tag is pretax. When you add in taxes, mandatory tipping and other hidden charges then you wonder if you're back in the Medieval Ages Serfdom.

Post: #94

(11-20-2018 02:40 PM)cascadecombo Wrote:  

(11-19-2018 12:34 AM)wi30 Wrote:  That article makes rain man seem socially adjusted.

100% of people who leave shitty tips have never worked a job that earned tips.

Is the extra four dollars really going to break your bank?

I tip minimum 20% unless something went seriously wrong.

I lose a lot of respect for someone if they leave a shitty tip.

When did 20% become the norm?

No idea. I only tip 15% and I've worked tables way back in the day.

There does however seem to be an epidemic of entitled wait staff out there. Most sit down restaurants these days are crap. Not worth the experience, prices, or the attitudes.

Then again, it's not surprising knowing the dregs of society that work most bars and restaurants.

Unpopular opinion: most of them deserve their station in life.

Post: #95

(11-20-2018 03:02 PM)BaatumMania Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 02:40 PM)Rotten Wrote:  In a more perfect world, the waitstaff would get paid a living wage. My Euro relatives who come to USA resent that the bill is 30 or more percent larger than the listed prices (after tax and tip). They are right. It's BS.

Some regions and countries are worse than that. The price on the tag is pretax. When you add in taxes, mandatory tipping and other hidden charges then you wonder if you're back in the Medieval Ages Serfdom.

I went to a place that had a medieval ages theme and there was mock jousting and a show in the middle. It was called "Middle Ages" or something.

I tipped the service wench 20 percent.

Aloha!

Post: #96

Apparently quite a few guys posting here are bartenders.

Post: #97

Quote:There does however seem to be an epidemic of entitled wait staff out there. Most sit down restaurants these days are crap. Not worth the experience, prices, or the attitudes.

Many of the women are bad not only as a customer, but to work with. But customers let them get away with it. They know there are guys who go there just to have some interaction with a cute woman, so they walk all over these guys.

The main problem is that they don't know they are at work. So they still expect to interject their opinions and preferences into any situation they can.

The best solution as a customer is to be a straight talking slightly dickish guy from the start so she thinks, "This one could cause me problems, I better pay more attention to him."

If you are nice from the start you get friend-zoned from the start because they are acting instinctively and forget they are at work. I have seen shit waitresses bring out the wrong order and then tell the guy to eat it anyway because it is better than what he ordered, or try to bum a cigarette from a customer she has been ignoring.

If the men don't check them, they won't do it themselves.

Unfortunately, if she has pre-cucked her manager, you are sunk.

Post: #98

^ In other words, women being women.

__________

Here's an addendum I'll add to my initial post on page two:

For those of you who like to stiff waitstaff / bar staff, and think you're somehow morally superior for doing so...

Keep doing what you're doing.


No, seriously...keep doing it. And while you're at it, tell everyone in your shared company why (and even the waiter/bartender if you feel so inclined).

Post: #99

(11-20-2018 03:40 PM)redpillage Wrote:  Apparently quite a few guys posting here are bartenders.

So who is hamstering, the people talking about their experiences in an industry, or the people looking for any excuse not to pay for a service?

Post: #100

Tipping introduces a controllable element for the customer to lead the experience.

Higher wages = higher prices, which takes control from the customer as the server gets paid no matter what. Service communism, if you will.

Be glad for lower prices and tipping as an option. You don't have to like it, but if it's a social convention where you are then it's another string to your bow.

If servers are acting entitled no matter how shitty the service, stiff them. There are good and bad people in all industries. Reward the good, punish the bad, simple.