Post: #1

Heartiste did a recent post: The Case Against Tipping

https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2018/11/...t-tipping/

The post makes the case that tipping is largely a wealth transfer to women, since most waitresses are women. We don't tip male dominated professions, and in major cities the wait staff is mostly women, gays, and "vibrants" (Heartiste's word).

Pretty interesting debate in the comments section too. People talk about those iPad checkouts where they ask for a tip or "services fees" added to delivery that don't actually go to the driver. Some guys talk about tipping more if the waiter is male or white. Some argue tipping allows you to reward good service, and incentives like tipping are the reason we get better service in America.

My favorite comment:

Quote:“Tipping never got a man laid”

BUT: Not tipping can get a man laid.

Lesson in there.

It got me thinking - is there a better way to handle tipping? Is there a game way to do it? A way you could use your tip (heh) or lack of tip to game people?

My 2 cents - I'm considering stopping tipping in places I plan to never visit again, and tipping extra in places I'm a regular. This way I'm spending the same amount, but using my money to build goodwill in places I like, rather then throwing it away on dives I visit while traveling.

What do you think? How do you tip (or not tip)?

Post: #2

That article makes rain man seem socially adjusted.

100% of people who leave shitty tips have never worked a job that earned tips.

Is the extra four dollars really going to break your bank?

I tip minimum 20% unless something went seriously wrong.

I lose a lot of respect for someone if they leave a shitty tip.

Post: #3

I think you should tip in a utilitarian way. A lot of the time places I tip at I go out of my way to make a memorable conversation as well and that adds to my status in the establishment. When you take girls to these places it adds up. Sometimes I ask for extras and they dont charge, sometimes they discount meals or drinks heavily. It leaves people wondering why you're getting special treatment. It's useful in game, not just for women but business as well. But tipping well doesn't automatically do it, you have to leave an impression. When done correctly you will get that value back in status, goods, or service. If not you feel like you're being ripped off. Money means transfer of value and sometimes theres an element of good faith but if you're not getting your value back you're doing it wrong.

Obviously if someone gives you really good service you should probably tip. That goes without saying. I mean, it's just being nice. By good service I mean checking on you every 5-10m keeping you in drinks/coffee and not giving any weird attitude to you. If you can point out less than 5 things they did incorrectly (having ever worked in service) they're probably doing well. The ideal server will make you feel like you're visiting an aunts house or a close polite friend's dinner. You should want for nothing.

If I'm never going to be somewhere else again and I'm sure I just let them take whatever change or tip 10%. Not really important it doesn't do anything for me.

Post: #4

(11-18-2018 11:59 PM)Barbarian_Brad Wrote:  The post makes the case that tipping is largely a wealth transfer to women, since most waitresses are women. We don't tip male dominated professions, and in major cities the wait staff is mostly women, gays, and "vibrants" (Heartiste's word).

Pretty interesting debate in the comments section too. People talk about those iPad checkouts where they ask for a tip or "services fees" added to delivery that don't actually go to the driver. Some guys talk about tipping more if the waiter is male or white. Some argue tipping allows you to reward good service, and incentives like tipping are the reason we get better service in America.

My favorite comment:

Quote:“Tipping never got a man laid”

BUT: Not tipping can get a man laid.

Lesson in there.

Well this is a timely reminder of why I don't read Heartiste anymore. Sometimes, I swear the manosphere needs to get a grip and realize 80% of the people around you are just trying to live their lives the best they can. They're not concerned with identity politics, they're not trying to replace you with migrants, they're just trying to pay rent and experience some fun and joy in their lives.

So they take shitty server jobs at Cocos where they make $10 an hour, but count on their tips to pay their cell phone, buy diapers for their kids, or have some money to enjoy a night out on Saturday, because they barely make enough from their hourly to pay for their rent and car.

So when an dark triad, Heartiste reading, alpha male stiffs her on 4 dollar tip just to prove some political point, or to neg her to get into her pants, you can see how shitty that would be.

Not to mention servers, as well as bartenders, often share their tips with busboys, barbacks, doormen, and even the cooks. And not all of them are illegal Mexicans. I can see if they did a horrible job, but most of the time in America the service is at least decent. So if the staff is trying to do the best they can, why be a prick and not tip?

In most cases it's just a couple of bucks, it's not a "wealth transfer." Its money these people need to hover just above the poverty line.

But here's a "tip"
In America, not tipping your server or bartender won't get her panties wet, won't prove your alphaness, and will most certainly not get you laid. It'll just make you look like a dickhead. So just double the sales tax and leave a small tip.

Post: #5

Yeah I gotta agree with wi30. If you're so pathetic and desperate that you need to tip women a few bucks less b/c you feel that threatened by them, you're a fucking sad loser. You're not stopping anything by being stingy towards people that are actually doing something, you're just a delusional chump. If anything, it's more capitalist than many careers, as the money you make is more directly related to your work quality each day.

And BTW, while true that there's more women in these positions, in higher end bars and restaurants (i.e. bigger tips), more of the servers and bartenders tend to be male.

Post: #6

^^ Agree article is a little much. The US is different than Canada and many other countries in terms of wages for 'servers'. I would say in Canada this would drop to 10% as a baseline, although many servers would like to see 20%.

Generally people who worked in the industry feel a need to 'pay back' because of all the cheap ass customers they had. Decide for yourself if you tip for service, to make yourself feel generous, so others don't think you're cheap or whatever other reason. If a place is full and my service is affected (as it should be) then yes, I lower my tip. The server is making money on volume.

I do have a tendency to give nice tips in shitty diners to fat middle aged waitresses. That's generosity. Giving the 22 year old chick at the downtown club with her tits out just means you're a sucker.

There is a difference between bringing bottles of beer to the table vs. wine/cocktails vs. an actual dinner.

I also try and tip cash, that way it is take home and the government doesn't take a slice.

Post: #7

Unless the food sucks, they fuck the order/serve cold and they are rude (and it has to be a combination of shit food and service) you should tip. They are getting sub minimum wage usually (most of the time) and I rarely have a waitress that doesn't make at least an effort.

Obviously don't throw a 100% tip to try to get in her pants (I'm sure many blue pillers do just this.) It's a token of appreciation.

Post: #8

Just don't buy an appetizer and use the money for a tip. Problem solved.

Pro tip: if you run a business, make sure to add a tip line on your receipt. Dry cleaner? Dentist? Department store? Tip please. You'll be surprised how many people are so weak-minded they will succumb to guilt and drop you a dollar. If you don't ask, the answer's always no.

Post: #9

Quote:“Tipping never got a man laid”

BUT: Not tipping can get a man laid.

Lesson in there.

I'd really like to meet the ultimate dark triad alpha who pulled a hot waitress by not tipping her.

Post: #10

Solving all of our culture's ills by not tipping women? Why was this not thought of sooner?

Post: #11

I think employers should pay their workers a decent wage so that employees aren't reliant on the tips to make ends meet.

That said, I always tip in restaurants I frequent. I would not tip only if the service was crap or the server was rude or something like that.

Post: #12

(11-19-2018 01:25 AM)RDF Wrote:  

Quote:“Tipping never got a man laid”

BUT: Not tipping can get a man laid.

Lesson in there.

I'd really like to meet the ultimate dark triad alpha who pulled a hot waitress by not tipping her.

Hahah prolly a rare situation. The chick would truly need to consider said alpha's cock as being a sufficient tip in & of itself heheh.

Joke aside, it is customary to leave a tip in the USA for decent service. Be prepared to catch some flack or be looked at differently if you don't. There is a sentiment among service industry workers that cheap-ass patrons don't need to be patronizing their establishments if they are incapable of leaving a tip.

Generally speaking if I'm out on the town ordering drinks (not as often these days), the bartenders tend to keep the drinks flowing a bit quicker & more freely when they notice that I'm not slipping up on leaving tips as the night goes on. Lately I've been much more into BYOB swag / smaller intimate get togethers / hanging out with chicks in our own lodging, etc.

Post: #13

You know the difference between a Jew and a canoe? A canoe tips!

Seriously, if somebody whines about tipping, leave me alone. If you gotta have a personal policy about tipping, also leave me alone.

Aloha!

Post: #14

Depends on the tipping customs of the country I happen to find myself in at the time. I'm certainly not going to make a political or gender role point out of tipping.

Post: #15

(11-18-2018 11:59 PM)Barbarian_Brad Wrote:  Heartiste did a recent post: The Case Against Tipping
https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2018/11/...t-tipping/
The post makes the case that tipping is largely a wealth transfer to women, since most waitresses are women. We don't tip male dominated professions, and in major cities the wait staff is mostly women, gays, and "vibrants" (Heartiste's word).

I routinely do some side work as an Uber driver. Only about 1 in 15 people bother to tip. I have an almost 5 star rating too.

One thing I have noticed is that women are the worlds shittiest tippers. It doesn't matter how good you provide the service. I circled around a block one time taking an extra 3 minutes because this lady was afraid to cross the street. She did not pay even a penny more than required.

I kind of see what Heartiste is saying, but the last thing I want to do in this life is to be more like a woman. Why copy their shitty behavior?

I will make one caveat. Elderly midwestern women tip at a higher percentage. Also for some weird reason Asian women tip me at nearly the same rate as men. Oh... and black men tip at almost double the frequency.

Post: #16

I grew up caddying as a summer job. It was there I learned the importance of a tip. Always kick the bellhop, doorman who got you a cab, front desk if they go out of their way for you, dealers, beer girls, etc a couple bucks.

But when did the shift to 20% happen for wait staff? It happened overnight. Growing up it was always 10%. Always. It's like some waiter lobby started passed the word to make it 20%.

I tip the most out of everyone I know, but the article and comments have me thinking about 15% from now on.

Post: #17

I just cant get over this "transfer of wealth to women" part. Waitresses have weath now? Any money you tip her is going right back into the economy the next time she goes shopping.

Post: #18

(11-19-2018 06:29 AM)Monty_Brogan Wrote:  But when did the shift to 20% happen for wait staff? It happened overnight. Growing up it was always 10%. Always. It's like some waiter lobby started passed the word to make it 20%.

I tip the most out of everyone I know, but the article and comments have me thinking about 15% from now on.

I'm not singling you out personally, but for argument's sake, for an $80 meal...

15% = $12
20% = $16

Its four bucks to extend a bit of humanly goodwill and appreciate to a fellow person's service.

If you overthink this, you get to the point where you become that woman at a yard sale who tries to beat someone up over $1 or fifty cents (I've seen this) for a lamp. To what end this?

Post: #19

One thing I noticed is how 20% became the new 15% without much fuss. Overall I think restaurant dining is bullshit anyway. I'd much rather cook my own meal.

Post: #20

I worked as a waiter before and it's hard work. I get that. But I don't like tipping. I was a good waiter but years ago when I waited table s 15 percent was the high water mark, not necessarily standard, although aot of my customers were minorities.

The better argument why you should tip is because tipping puts you in a spirit of gratitude. If you shave a tip down from say 20% to 10%, you might save yourself a couple of bucks, but for the rest of the day you will have put yourself in a judgemental, ungrateful mood. It will cause negative interactions with people the rest of the day. So I try to tip around 20% just to ensure positivity in my life.

When you are grateful, it is difficult to be fearful

Post: #21

If the bill includes a 10% service charge, do you guys referring to a 15% tip mean an extra 15% or extra 5%?

To those of you who worked in a restaurant before, is the service charge distributed to the staff like regular tips or just a phony thing pocketed by the owners?

Post: #22

(11-19-2018 08:54 AM)TigerMandingo Wrote:  One thing I noticed is how 20% became the new 15% without much fuss. Overall I think restaurant dining is bullshit anyway. I'd much rather cook my own meal.

One good thing about Spain - NO TIPPING!

I remember going to that one fancy Sushi place on Beverly, corner of La Cienega, probably still there. Although I was a regular until then that fucking waiter treated us like lepers and everything took forever, we waited almost an hour for our food.

Didn't tip the mofo and he was literally confronting me in front of everyone trying to embarrass me into giving him a tip. I basically told him that the service was below par and that I would never ever be back there. That was back in 2011 or something, so I can imagine it must have gotten a lot worse ever since.

Post: #23

(11-19-2018 09:17 AM)Hypno Wrote:  The better argument why you should tip is because tipping puts you in a spirit of gratitude. If you shave a tip down from say 20% to 10%, you might save yourself a couple of bucks, but for the rest of the day you will have put yourself in a judgemental, ungrateful mood. It will cause negative interactions with people the rest of the day. So I try to tip around 20% just to ensure positivity in my life.

Uuuuhh, no, not really... LOL :-) Actually I am probably ecstatic that I just saved 10 or 20 bucks for something productive or essential instead of wasting it on subsidizing the restaurant industry.

Typical sign of our cultural bubble. Not a phenomenon you see when people are literally starving to death and are pinching pennies to feed their families. It will change over the coming decade and one day we will look back at threads like these* and have a good laugh.

*assuming there still will be an Internet

Post: #24

(11-19-2018 08:42 AM)dicknixon72 Wrote:  

(11-19-2018 06:29 AM)Monty_Brogan Wrote:  But when did the shift to 20% happen for wait staff? It happened overnight. Growing up it was always 10%. Always. It's like some waiter lobby started passed the word to make it 20%.

I tip the most out of everyone I know, but the article and comments have me thinking about 15% from now on.

I'm not singling you out personally, but for argument's sake, for an $80 meal...

15% = $12
20% = $16

Its four bucks to extend a bit of humanly goodwill and appreciate to a fellow person's service.

If you overthink this, you get to the point where you become that woman at a yard sale who tries to beat someone up over $1 or fifty cents (I've seen this) for a lamp. To what end this?

Nobody ever got rich by wasting money on nonessentials. Reading the comments in this thread really concern me as it seems none of you guys have ever faced any true hardship in your lives.

20% is huge and over time adds up to real money. Seven lunches per week for about $25 each (lowballing here probably) that's $175. You add 20% on top of that and it's $210 - so $35 per week. This is probably on the low side but bear with me.

Now if you saved $35 per week that's $1,850 in one year. In 10 years that's the cost of a low budget car. But what we haven't considered here is compounding if you are able to invest the money instead or collect interest (more difficult these days but possible if you seek out banks abroad or invest in U.S. bonds/notes).

If your food budget is bigger than all those numbers inflate accordingly. Don't under estimate the slow drip that expenses like these can amount to. Instead of eating low quality high sugar high salt GMO crap in restaurants you should be learning how to cook your own meals anyway. So don't go to the burger place or diner for lunch every single day, just make yourself a sandwich and take it along. You know, just like your granddad did ;-)

Post: #25

(11-19-2018 08:42 AM)dicknixon72 Wrote:  

(11-19-2018 06:29 AM)Monty_Brogan Wrote:  But when did the shift to 20% happen for wait staff? It happened overnight. Growing up it was always 10%. Always. It's like some waiter lobby started passed the word to make it 20%.

I tip the most out of everyone I know, but the article and comments have me thinking about 15% from now on.

I'm not singling you out personally, but for argument's sake, for an $80 meal...

15% = $12
20% = $16

Its four bucks to extend a bit of humanly goodwill and appreciate to a fellow person's service.

If you overthink this, you get to the point where you become that woman at a yard sale who tries to beat someone up over $1 or fifty cents (I've seen this) for a lamp. To what end this?

People always justify it by saying "hey it's only a couple extra bucks!" What they fail to realize is that tipping is not about the amount or my goodwill, it's about principles. For example:
If I tip this 20% - because hey, they need this money more than I do! - I'm sending a message that they can continue to depend on the charity of others for survival.
I don't want to encourage dependency for survival (that's how we got in this mess), I want to encourage independency.
And worse, if social pressure is used to coerce others into being charitable, my tip is no longer a charity, but a tax.

Tipping in of itself is fine. But coming to work with the expectation to earn a certain amount based on the coerced charity of others... why not just stand at the stoplight with a sign asking for free money? There's more dignity in that.