Post: #76

PT, no offense taken. So in terms of controlling the interpersonal dynamic, if she replies you would just re-engage and re-establish good relations, give her attention? Did you not previously suggest that going dark for a time and using dread would be useful?

Post: #77

Just by way of update, she wrote to me at 2.30 am her time 'What did you have for lunch', as if nothing had happened. We had a longish text session and things have calmed down to pre-GF ultimatum levels.

Post: #78

(11-06-2018 03:34 PM)Jefferson Wrote:  Just by way of update, she wrote to me at 2.30 am her time 'What did you have for lunch', as if nothing had happened. We had a longish text session and things have calmed down to pre-GF ultimatum levels.

Girl Game Recognized

Post: #79

What do you mean Kaotic?

Post: #80

OP...

Just step away. This girl isn't wife material and you're wasting energy.

Post: #81

Imo its nearly impossible for a girls friends to impact the relationship unless she doesnt see you as high value. (My definition of HV isn't the standard RVF "muscles, money, looks" but that's another topic)

Ive been in relationships where all of her friends hate me. Ime, if youre truly a "high value guy", all it does is make her like you more.

Standard psychology really. Set up 10 chairs, tell someone to not sit in *that* chair (because its a very bad and dangerous chair) and where do they sit? Lol.

However, the quickest way to allow her friends opinion to make an impact is to acknowledge their opinions at all. Why would you care about her friend, whom youve never met, opinions? Because youre not sure of yourself. Instant low value subcommunication.

Now that i think about it, that's likely why a woman would tell you. Its a subtle (unconscious) shit test of your value. And you failed. You deserve to lose this girl.

Now say youre trying to bang a chick with a Boyfriend, do you insult him? Absolutely not. All that will do is get the chick to defend him. (Insulting the boyfriend is essentially insulting the girl). The way to do it is to talk him up in a way that society says women want but are in fact repulsed by (red pill).

"I bet if you're with him hes a really nice guy. He probably buys you flowers all the time to show how much he cares. Youre a really awesome chick and the reason he acts that way is that hes scared of losing you because he knows he could never get another girl as good as you. He knows without you he would be nothing so thats why he acts jealous.he cant risk losing you because you give his life meaning etc etc etc"

All this is straight from the game manuals. Good luck

Post: #82

Also: he who gives an ultimatum is broadcasting they are in the weak position.

People who are winning don't give ultimatums, they just act.

Ultimatums signal you have no other choices, and are deeply affected.

==

Alternative could have been playing the long game of convincing her how degenerate and pathetic he may be, without appearing to care whether or not they hang.

I've done this by letting her express how their friendship stemmed from college, he was there for her during difficult family times, and has her back. Yet since I knew her, he was basically always hitting her up for advice, a loan, favors, and not being very gracious.

I said "what good is his 'having your back'? You have his back, you'll NEVER need him to have your back because you have your shit together. How is this guy ever going to help you if he can't hang on to $20 or keep a job? Sounds like it's just a nostalgia thing..."

Over a few months, this seeped in and she, on her own volition, started saying "wow, I spoke to him on the phone... again he needs help with something. Wow, this is pretty one-sided, I'm starting to see how desparate he is." as if it were her own idea. Inception!

Sometimes the long play is better.

(That being said, I understand in your case he was directly introducing a more sexualized vibe and that worried you)

Post: #83

(11-06-2018 05:27 PM)tr1cky Wrote:  Ive been in relationships where all of her friends hate me. Ime, if youre truly a "high value guy", all it does is make her like you more.

That's exactly the position I've been in. What happened was that I took an ego trip. My instinct was to dislike the GF, which is still the case, but it was only when she started to make an argument out of it that I decided to go all or nothing and make an ultimatum. But everyone knows ultimatums never work. Ever. That was the mistake, to make this an issue, when it wasn't, which was precipitated by her argument. I should never have let her precipitate this argument.

(11-06-2018 05:27 PM)tr1cky Wrote:  Standard psychology really. Set up 10 chairs, tell someone to not sit in *that* chair (because its a very bad and dangerous chair) and where do they sit? Lol.

Exactly. THAT's why when you give an ultimatum against a GF, they will side with the GF. Never should have done the ultimatum. It was ok, to make clear my boundary that I dislike the gay guy, but not to escalate it, because she did. I should have remained calm.

(11-06-2018 05:27 PM)tr1cky Wrote:  However, the quickest way to allow her friends opinion to make an impact is to acknowledge their opinions at all. Why would you care about her friend, whom you've never met, opinions? Because youre not sure of yourself. Instant low value subcommunication.

His opinion doesn't matter at all and has no impact, it was the fact that he has this connection with my girl that pissed me off, his very existence.

(11-06-2018 05:27 PM)tr1cky Wrote:  Now that i think about it, that's likely why a woman would tell you. Its a subtle (unconscious) shit test of your value. And you failed. You deserve to lose this girl.

Nah, it wasn't a shit test, he had just planned to visit, it was his idea. And they've been friends for 10 years. So unless she's been training to shit test me for 10 years it's unlikely. And I'm not gonna lose that girl, she's again firing up my messenger. But yes, I did not handle this situation in an optimal fashion, that is very clear.

(11-06-2018 05:27 PM)tr1cky Wrote:  Now say youre trying to bang a chick with a Boyfriend, do you insult him? Absolutely not. All that will do is get the chick to defend him. (Insulting the boyfriend is essentially insulting the girl). The way to do it is to talk him up in a way that society says women want but are in fact repulsed by (red pill).

"I bet if you're with him hes a really nice guy. He probably buys you flowers all the time to show how much he cares. Youre a really awesome chick and the reason he acts that way is that hes scared of losing you because he knows he could never get another girl as good as you. He knows without you he would be nothing so thats why he acts jealous.he cant risk losing you because you give his life meaning etc etc etc"

All this is straight from the game manuals. Good luck

This is actually pretty good, I should talk up, GF, lol. Thanks man.

Post: #84

(11-06-2018 05:39 PM)456 Wrote:  Also: he who gives an ultimatum is broadcasting they are in the weak position.

People who are winning don't give ultimatums, they just act.

Ultimatums signal you have no other choices, and are deeply affected.

Yes, that's absolutely true. The ultimatum was a terrible idea. I think it was net result of my girl escalating the argument and saying we were finished. I should have known this was just another dread game of hers. But yet again I swallowed it hook line and sinker, and in (totally unnecessary) desperation went for the ultimatum, basically meant to get her to prove the ending of the relationship was just a dread maneuvre and she would choose me. A massive miscalculation, as the ultimatum dynamic just weakend my position further, it was again in her court to decide, when I SHOULD DECIDE if an argument escalates. Not her. Lesson learned.

(11-06-2018 05:39 PM)456 Wrote:  Alternative could have been playing the long game of convincing her how degenerate and pathetic he may be, without appearing to care whether or not they hang.

I've done this by letting her express how their friendship stemmed from college, he was there for her during difficult family times, and has her back. Yet since I knew her, he was basically always hitting her up for advice, a loan, favors, and not being very gracious.

I said "what good is his 'having your back'? You have his back, you'll NEVER need him to have your back because you have your shit together. How is this guy ever going to help you if he can't hang on to $20 or keep a job? Sounds like it's just a nostalgia thing..."

Over a few months, this seeped in and she, on her own volition, started saying "wow, I spoke to him on the phone... again he needs help with something. Wow, this is pretty one-sided, I'm starting to see how desparate he is." as if it were her own idea. Inception!

Sometimes the long play is better.

The long play is definitely the way to go. GF in fact had been making mistakes, not contacting her when she thought he would, as the relationship is already deteriorating due to the fact they are no longer in geographic proximity.

(11-06-2018 05:39 PM)456 Wrote:  (That being said, I understand in your case he was directly introducing a more sexualized vibe and that worried you)

Well, this is the thing, not knowing this guy, I mean it's a bit difficult, I'm fairly certain he's gay, but my girl and her girlfriend do play sexual flirting games with the guy, I guess it's fun precisely because it's not dangerous and he'd never go for it, so she told me about these sexualised jokes, obviously that in itself means they were harmless. But the connection of those two seems so deep from a distance. Deeper than it actually is on closer inspection I suspect.