Post: #51

Bottom line: yes, you are getting played.

Line up: you can turn it around in a few different ways.

Last line: You have been given great advice already. Choose whose to use. Report back if you don't get success.

Post: #52

(10-30-2018 04:12 PM)Rhyme or Reason Wrote:  I just noticed this in the OP

Quote:Just shy of 20k instagram followers

Lol.

Enlighten me, why is this funny? My perspective on Instagram is fairly skewed due to the whole photography thing so I can't tell if you think that means she's clearly an attention whore, or it's not that many followers, or what exactly. On paper, the most attention-whorish girl I've fucked was an 18 year old cam girl who I managed to keep as a plate for about 2 months; she made about 4 grand a month camming but was such a sweet little girl and very modest. Also one of the models I worked with used to cam and has guys on the internet who send her money for no reason, yet she basically propositioned me. I had to refuse because she's cray cray (even for me) but my point is that just because a girl has a large internet following doesn't mean she's trying to extract monetary benefit from everyone.

(10-30-2018 04:59 PM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  

(10-30-2018 03:35 PM)goodington Wrote:  What can I say, slow day at work and I don’t like being told no. I have about a half dozen other leads so I’ll be fine either way.

She hasn't said "no". You just dont know how to make her say "Yes Please fuck me daddy"

Normally I'm quite good at establishing that kind of rapport, shall we say, but I think her comments about looking for a nice guy threw me off. Now it's hard to change because she already sees me as this sweet guy, not the man who's going to tie a belt around her neck and tell her she's not allowed to cum until daddy says so. I fell into her frame and it's going to be hella tricky getting out of it.

(10-30-2018 06:23 PM)Max RNR Wrote:  Last line: You have been given great advice already. Choose whose to use. Report back if you don't get success.

If I do somehow manage to get the notch, or turn her into a regular plate, I will definitely report back. If it doesn't work out I will also report back, so we can all learn from my mistakes.

Post: #53

The 20k on IG means this is definetley not her first rodeo. She very well may have deleted her SA account but she really has no need for it as her DM's are filled up everyday with thirsty guys offering her anything that she needs.

You've been given great advice in this thread - it's time to move on as this girl isn't going to give up the goods until she's confident she's getting something of value from you in return.

She knows you own a second home condo downtown so assumes that you have money. She's just digging the claws into you deeper until she can get you hooked emotionally. I'm willing to bet she actually didn't even get laid off.

Put this girl on the back burner. She's wasting your time.

Post: #54

Goodington, good on you (ha!) for accepting critique and thanks for sharing. I'm learning as well.

Lots of good input already but let me add a few points:

1- Be careful with identifiable info (city, age, date details). It's no secret those thots scour the internet and have communities to share Intel on "clients". Married folks should be even more cautious

2- Maybe you can hit her with "let's just be friends". It's not a bluff either. Tell her she's cool to hang with and all that shit. Don't pay for anything (you're only friends after all) but use her and her group of thotty friends for social proof (parties, modeling IG account). Sooner or later you'll bang someone in that circle if you become part of it

3- I'm only repeating this because you seem adept at excusing some of her behavior: she's playing you 100%. There's a raft of evidence against the hooker with a heart of gold schtik (SA, IG, sexy pics, slutty Gfs, meeting at your place)

You sound like a man who has a good head on his shoulders and has done well for himself. Don't fall for that basic con, buddy!

Bonus Round:
Big fakies=attention whoring but big fakies on an Asian girl= attention whoring to the Nth degree. Upside is she can figure out the value of N

Post: #55

Quote:Enlighten me, why is this funny?

It's funny for so many reasons. But if I had to pick one it's that you thought it would be germane to what you asked in the thread title.

The 20k was only mentioned by you, in my view, because it gives credit to her hotness in a quantifyable manner and by extension makes you think your investment in her is worthwhile. You gave us the number of followers she has because you think that will have an impact on how hot the readership here thinks this girl is and therefore give your story credit/weight.

In the plain light of day, that comment is just silly. That you felt it needed mentioning just shows how up your own ass you are over this chick.

We get it, she's really hot. Doesn't change anything.

Post: #56

(10-30-2018 11:10 AM)goodington Wrote:  

(10-30-2018 10:53 AM)Noir Wrote:  Did you, at any stage, communicate your intentions without verbally saying them? Did you ever flex and show her you can crush that pussy in a blink of an eye and that you're going easy?

First, fantastic post and thank you. Second, how do you do this? I've told her a few stories about girls I've fucked and made fun of her for being such a prude, but since she thinks I'm a nice guy I don't really want to go full-on asshole. Maybe I should amp things up a notch, but I also don't want to issue an ultimatum or sound butthurt about not getting laid.

a) You break rapport and make her chase it. People have a tendency to try harder around people who are unimpressed around them. This is similar to you being the prize and showcasing it. You act aloof and disinterested. This is part of push/pull and you know when to push and when to pull. Generally you push more than pull. (push)

b) You invade her personal space, in combination with the above. You are comfortable with women and your sexuality. This is what sexualizes interactions. You move her around, firmly. You touch her and hold her. You can implement compliance tests also to give you feedback on how open she is to it. (pull)

I used to touch their hair under the pretense that something is in it, without saying something. So, shes talking and I will be nodding or whatever. My hand goes directly to the side of her forehead and I 'grab' something and throw it away. If she flinches, then she needs some work. If she doesn't then it's cool and I can 'escalate'.

This shit ends up being pretty automatic but it's good for beginner steps for you to notice things.

c) You flirt with other women in front of her. You banter with the staff that work there (female or male, preferable female). You are comfortable in the environment. You interrupt her to take that phone call or to make a phone call. You let her hear you on the phone if you want and you're talking to another woman. You don't mention shit, let her mind fill in the gaps. You check out other women, with intent, not in a pervy way (there's a difference).

d) You look at her in a sexual way. The 'I will have my way with you' look. Master this look. Go through my other posts if you want where I have posted about this.


For me, signalling this is completely non-verbal. A guy who tells you he is good at something, is not good. The dog that barks seldom bites.

Don't tell her about chicks you've fucked. It's unbecoming. It's lame. It's highschool. Leave some mystery. I doubt she is a prude, she just doesn't dig talking about sex probably. The girls who don't talk about sex are usually the most experienced because they know it doesn't merit discussion. You either fucking or you ain't.

It's the inexperienced curious ones who will talk about sex.

And for what it's worth, you can discuss it after a few bangs, if you're so inclined. My girl will ask me for stories (weirdest, fastest, best, whatever). I told her a few but told her nothing good ever comes out of it. And no, I am not interested in her stories (I doubt I would be impressed anyways).

Post: #57

I’ve never been able to figure out how to quote properly on mobile, so apologies for the lack of proper quotes.

I mentioned she had 20k followers because it speaks to the fact that she’s an attention whore (I should have also mentioned she has blonde hair, another slutty Asian tell). For me this is good and bad, because being a model photographer is catnip to these girls because I can help them feed the online thirst. It also means that when I post her photos, other girls will see her follow count which means more social proof for me. As evidence, I posted a couple of photos from our shoot to my story, and this model with 93k followers who recently flaked on me sent a DM almost immediately asking to reschedule. My photography account has just under 3k, which is respectable but it’s fantastic publicity when I can leverage girls who have a wider reach.

Thanks Noir for the succinct advice. I have been managing (a) fairly well, as I am actually very busy so she’s had to chase me to some extent (and now I owe her photos from the shoot so she’ll have to chase me again to actually get the proofs), and she suggested we have a proper date another time but I haven’t agree to anything yet. I finally started to do (b) during our shoot with seemingly no resistance - adjusting her hair, touching her shoulder, hand on waist, hand in her back pocket, but I’ve gotten used to the “don’t touch the model” rule and it was hard for me to remember to ignore that training. For © I felt like meeting her friends was useful, so I could banter with all of them and ignore her ever so slightly.

There is a small part of me that’s tempted to invite her out to an edm club on Friday with my friends, but I won’t have a place to take her if things to do well. I also don’t want to babysit someone who won’t be as into the music as I will be, or leave early if she doesn’t have a good time. If I don’t, I’ll be in Mexico for a week and can re-engage when I get back. Thoughts?

Post: #58

It also means she's using for free photo shoots and you aren't getting any closer to fucking her.

EDM Club?

Here's a question: Why are you rewarding shitty behavior? You reward good behavior closer aligned to your goals.

Noir has some abolutely killer advice about breaking rapport and "character" aka nice guy

Post: #59

Photography is my actual hobby so I would do the same for any girl I shot with, but you do make a good point. I need to be less forgiving of shitty behavior. There is always the “come over to my place to review the proofs” angle but at this point I think I need to be more direct than that.

Post: #60

Edm is electronic dance music aka a Vegas style night club. I don’t think it’s a good idea. The only reason to do it is if I could give her mdma, which makes you very touchy feely aka lots of kino but I’d have no way to close.

Post: #61

I know what EDM music is, I go to raves.

I should've been more clear.

Not sure why you're still investing so much effort into her, and wanting to introduce drugs.

You've really gotta knock this pussy off the pedestal.

Post: #62

@ Noir ...as always excellent technical advice.

My only caveat is that in this specific instance the above is likely not applicable as OP has already severely "discounted" the value of his attention to this specific bangler. They've already spent significant time together and she knows he badly wants to bang her

Like any "commodity", attention 's value is only relative to its perceived exclusivity.

In the delicate art / science of "push /pull" he's over pushed. But even then its the wrong push. He's pushed from weakness.

And nothing kills a woman's attraction like weakness

Im not trying to be overly harsh on OP but his continued postings make it clear that his thirst for her have his own sexual self worth perception lower than his perception of hers. If this were not true he wouldn't be listing rationalizations as to why she "needs" to see him again....as an example

If this is clear to me then its an order of magnitude clearer to a woman who's feminine intuition has been honed by years of practice.

At this point I only see one pathway to banging this chick as I mentioned before: Here's my suggested recovery formula:

NOTE: At no point in the following do you ask her what she wants to do. Ask her as little as possible. Tell her to (sit here, try this wine, take your shoes off, etc...) This is all key in order to recoup the masculine dominance thats been given away

-Invite her over either directly to the bang location (or the closest possible venue to the bang location if a modicum of plausible deniability is still required) walking distance if you have to

-Once in the bang location: Have one glass of wine while sitting on the sofa.

-Finish that then pour a 2nd. (skip this if youve had a drink at an outside venue)

-After one sip of the 2nd glass reach over and take it from her. Put it on the coffee table along with yours. (This is when you are transitioning from verbal / emotional control to physical control )

- Dont say anything. Just lean over her and kiss her. Confidently. Like a man who knows what he wants but doesn't care if he doesn't get it from her because he knows he'll get it elsewhere

She'll either resist or she wont

Proceed accordingly

...This is what she and every woman wants from a man: to be relieved of responsibility

Post: #63

Exactly. I will add that I know that my own perception of my SMV is lower than it actually is... I used to be an overweight schlub and still haven’t fully internalized that I’m desirable now. About to have coffee with another girl right now.

Post: #64

(10-31-2018 02:21 PM)goodington Wrote:  Exactly. I will add that I know that my own perception of my SMV is lower than it actually is... I used to be an overweight schlub and still haven’t fully internalized that I’m desirable now. About to have coffee with another girl right now.[/b]

Is this another SA chick?

Post: #65

Yeah, not a pro but also not really appealing either. SA is definitely a crutch for me but being married makes it hard to meet girls out in the wild.

Post: #66

(10-31-2018 04:50 PM)goodington Wrote:  Yeah, not a pro but also not really appealing either. SA is definitely a crutch for me but being married makes it hard to meet girls out in the wild.

I don't think you understand why he bolded "about to have coffee".

I'll let him explain.

Post: #67

(10-31-2018 04:50 PM)goodington Wrote:  Yeah, not a pro but also not really appealing either. SA is definitely a crutch for me but being married makes it hard to meet girls out in the wild.

I can only imagine

My only suggestion is to remember attraction game principles still apply even if she's from SA relative to her "pro-ness" (for lack of a better word).

If youre screening out pros and semi pros (as you should) then you should be ending up with girls that are just looking for something different, a thrill, or even just a guy with his shit together who can pay for a nice dinner. So many of the 18-19 are sick of "boys" their age that dont know how to wipe their own ass much less take control of a man / woman dynamic.

The advantage you have in SA is that they start from the assumption that youre a level up. Treat them like a commodity (exactly as Noir described above) and you will maintain that advantage.

Thirst is weakness.

Weakness in a man is anathema to attraction for a woman.

The hotter the woman the easier it is for weakness to "leak" through your game and her to sense it

A truly beautiful woman often has men tell her she's beautiful but rarely has men show her that she's lucky to be fucked by / associate with him

Edit: To kaotic's point normally Id say coffee dates are self imposed barriers, unless your goal is to have coffee. But with SA chicks I think its a good low cost (time especially) way to pre-screen and move the interaction along to a real "date" / bang opportunity. Keep it short and sweet...like the busy affluent guy you are would

Post: #68

I fully support this post by PapayaTapper, goodington. Read it well and try to understand.

(10-31-2018 05:13 PM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  

(10-31-2018 04:50 PM)goodington Wrote:  Yeah, not a pro but also not really appealing either. SA is definitely a crutch for me but being married makes it hard to meet girls out in the wild.

I can only imagine

My only suggestion is to remember attraction game principles still apply even if she's from SA relative to her "pro-ness" (for lack of a better word).

If youre screening out pros and semi pros (as you should) then you should be ending up with girls that are just looking for something different, a thrill, or even just a guy with his shit together who can pay for a nice dinner. So many of the 18-19 are sick of "boys" their age that dont know how to wipe their own ass much less take control of a man / woman dynamic.

The advantage you have in SA is that they start from the assumption that youre a level up. Treat them like a commodity (exactly as Noir described above) and you will maintain that advantage.

Thirst is weakness.

Weakness in a man is anathema to attraction for a woman.

The hotter the woman the easier it is for weakness to "leak" through your game and her to sense it

A truly beautiful woman often has men tell her she's beautiful but rarely has men show her that she's lucky to be fucked by / associate with him

Edit: To kaotic's point normally Id say coffee dates are self imposed barriers, unless your goal is to have coffee. But with SA chicks I think its a good low cost (time especially) way to pre-screen and move the interaction along to a real "date" / bang opportunity. Keep it short and sweet...like the busy affluent guy you are would

Your SA game is off from the very start. You need to position yourself above what these chicks actually think you are from your profile. And I hope you have a demanding profile that screens out the filth when they read it. Ultimately, this is a money and status game whether they know it or not. They will filter themselves out if you are direct and keep frame in text and on your "dates". Also, "Seeking" is making this very easy for us now since the new laws and rules are in place. SA is the new Tinder.

Post: #69

Man Papa, Kaotic and Noir really need to get paid for the gold they lay down in threads like this.

Respect guys.

Post: #70

Coffee dates are great, because I actually am a busy guy and don’t have time for normal dating. Also girls are flakey and I don’t want to book off an evening from my family for some random internet stranger. I meet them at a Starbucks near my office in the middle of the day, a quick meet and great to establish that they’re serious and bangable. Always cut it short about an hour, and leave them wanting more. Second date is usually Uber eats and wine at my place, and getting the bang is almost always in the bag. Sometimes we don’t even get to eat lunch until after, they’re ready to go as soon as they show up. If a girl seems really dtf via text I might skip the coffee but I’ve been burned enough times that it’s not something I prefer.

I also don’t want to give away too much information but the place I can host is an Airbnb so it’s often not available, so I need to save it for legit opportunities/existing plates.

Post: #71

Also, “demanding” is not congruent with my personality, I am more “fun and aloof guy” who happens to have money but doesn’t rub it in your face. I do explicitly say in my profile that I have strict standards and am not looking for a quick hookup (ie p4p) but hoes don’t read that anyway.

Post: #72

(10-31-2018 12:40 PM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  My only caveat is that in this specific instance the above is likely not applicable as OP has already severely "discounted" the value of his attention to this specific bangler. They've already spent significant time together and she knows he badly wants to bang her

Like any "commodity", attention's value is only relative to its perceived exclusivity.

In the delicate art / science of "push /pull" he's over pushed. But even then its the wrong push. He's pushed from weakness.

And nothing kills a woman's attraction like weakness

Im not trying to be overly harsh on OP but his continued postings make it clear that his thirst for her have his own sexual self worth perception lower than his perception of hers. If this were not true he wouldn't be listing rationalizations as to why she "needs" to see him again....as an example

If this is clear to me then its an order of magnitude clearer to a woman who's feminine intuition has been honed by years of practice.

At this point I only see one pathway to banging this chick as I mentioned before: Here's my suggested recovery formula:

NOTE: At no point in the following do you ask her what she wants to do. Ask her as little as possible. Tell her to (sit here, try this wine, take your shoes off, etc...) This is all key in order to recoup the masculine dominance thats been given away

-Invite her over either directly to the bang location (or the closest possible venue to the bang location if a modicum of plausible deniability is still required) walking distance if you have to

-Once in the bang location: Have one glass of wine while sitting on the sofa.

-Finish that then pour a 2nd. (skip this if youve had a drink at an outside venue)

-After one sip of the 2nd glass reach over and take it from her. Put it on the coffee table along with yours. (This is when you are transitioning from verbal / emotional control to physical control )

- Dont say anything. Just lean over her and kiss her. Confidently. Like a man who knows what he wants but doesn't care if he doesn't get it from her because he knows he'll get it elsewhere

She'll either resist or she wont

Proceed accordingly

...This is what she and every woman wants from a man: to be relieved of responsibility

Thanks PT.

I agree 100%, I write this shit for future reference YET I think we should all be careful, the level that we come in with our advice.

I don't think OP will get anything out of his original situation because he's got zero leverage. The odds are poor for the price he is paying.

For this reason, I didn't really bother to the response going into (a), (b), ©, because it's micro. This is macro.

@OP, I have bolded my main takeaways from PT's excellent post above and you should be doing the same.

Zoom out and figure out the themes, rules and trends that you can apply.

My only deviation would be that I wouldn't bother with this chick, there's plenty more out there. Especially if you're married or some shit?

Nonetheless, we love analysing this shit so we go ahead.

She brings her friends, you should treat her like shit the next time and be nice to her friends. Make them work against each other. Girls are competitive, tap into that shit.

For all the talk of congruence, I will be ultra dick to certain girls and an absolute gentleman to others and let them figure out how I am treating the others. I am incongruent in this sense (macro) but congruent individually (micro) to fuck with them. Because I know they want shit and I wanna complicate their roadmap into how they get that. The ones I am a gentleman are usually the ones that I wouldn't fuck, too, because that's my default.

This shit is like possession in a soccer game, zero sum. When I am not getting my way, they're getting theirs so I am imposing my shit.

My friends and I joke that we have to be dicks for the first month and then we come out 'SURPRISE, I am actually a stand up, great guy. Can we still see each other?'. I might do a stand up routine on this some time.

Hence, treat SA bitches like that, because they're on a fucking marketplace offering up their pussy and complicating that because you know and they know what you want. They want your $$$. I think SA and Tinder are relatively similar, regardless of dynamic because you can be baller on Tinder. Baller on IG. You're baller in real life.

I got tired of tinder because it's exactly this kinda shit. Any online pussy marketplace is like this, you're starting at a handicap (for the bettors here). It's stupid because girls come pre-pedestalized. It's too good to be true and 90% of men are on there fumbling and shit.

Fuck, we could write an encylopedia on this shit and it wouldn't matter if you can't speak the language it's written in.

Keep reading kaotic & PTs posts, they have distilled so much knowledge that you should take notes. If you're having trouble, I can point our my own inferences. Shit changes once you fuck (dynamic, power) so that's your focus. This is why you cut through the shit and reduce the variables.

It's my fault for coming in on a different frequency. Guys often don't know what the right questions to ask are and I suppose us 'veterans' should discern that shit.

Kaotic alludes to another intelligent point.

Coffee-dates.

My girls 21 year old sister wants to fuck this guy and she tells me he's taking her to coffee.

I told her straight up, you ain't gonna fuck, it's a glorified interview.

Just from the above sentence, I will outline the lessons.

- girls want you to fuck them but they never make it easy, you make the decisions

- you can't touch her on a coffee date, nothing sexual

- you're going to revert to flirting, if possible

- flirting without touching is not flirting, it's just banter which is what men do

- you're going to pick up the bill regardless

- you ain't pushing from the start and assuming comfort. By this I mean, you ain't making her invest a bit more (compliance) to see where you stand.

Remember the possession? Well apply that to investment into the interaction. You're making it vanilla and min-risk, she just needs to show up in a public place and if you're unfuckable then she gets free shit regardless. Guess what? You made it hard to seem fuckable and worsened that handicap? You're on an app where the commodity is pussy and you're going to pretend like it's not.

The 21yo did not get fucked and had a terrible date. She secretly hopes the guy can turn it around but she's resigned to other guys. I know this because she calls me up and asks me HOW TO MAKE HERSELF MORE AVAILABLE IN THE FUTURE.

Operative part: IN THE FUTURE - she is over this chump. Dude's family owns a gelato business, he is handsome and on paper looks great but he just ain't got game so it doesn't matter because he can't push the buttons.

I got stories for days, all the girls in my girls social circle ask ME for advice because guys just aren't getting it. This is why they're enquiring on threesomes and shit.

Girls want this shit but they want to earn it and you gotta make them work for it. You gotta give them some uphill man.

This is back to that alpha/beta button pushing thread I started. You ain't allowing yourself to push the right buttons because you're picking a shit environment and this is your responsibility. PT mentions that you need to make the decisions. Well, allow yourself to by putting yourself in the most +EV environments.

Hence, I personally disagree on coffee shops, especially for Tinder and SA. Do some active shit.

When I am meeting chicks off these apps, I am screening them. I am putting them under a stress test to see how they react. Coffee is HR screening. I am talking trial by fire, let's do go-karts, go for a hike, shoot some pool etc.

Anything that I can touch the fuck out of you with plausible deniability yet pushing those buttons and screening under my context.

Think about it, they don't do these dates so they don't have reference points to compare you to.

It's the how big is my dick theory. Chicks don't know shit about measurements, they compare you to the other guys they fucked. It's the same shit. Put them on a date they don't usually do and it compensates for any fumbling because it's non-comparable, they recall it pleasurably and are excited.

Fucking hell, I remember when I was 17 and bought Twister just to get chicks on their knees and touching me. No other kid was focusing on this.

I dunno man, I went on a tangent there but the point is if you keep doing vanilla dates, you're gonna be operating on vanilla frequencies. Girls are the masters of this domain and it's under their rules. If I played a level on a game 27 times, I would be good vs the one I played once.

Take them out of that domain and throw them in one where they're inexperienced.

This is where you, as a newb, can establish dominance easier, because they're less experience and they will pedestalize you. Just the fact that you take them out of their zone makes you dominant because they will look to you to lead and you automatically ARE FORCED TO LEAD.

These are little things you can do to put you ahead.

You can be whatever you want to be, if it's congruent. You start causing questions when you 'leak' out incongruence as PT mentioned. He mentions weakness but it's an example of a lot of incongruences.

Remember, if shes attracted, she will want you to be what she fantasizes and will give you a free pass for a certain standard deviation of behaviour.

I can go on and on but I need to go to work.

Listen to PT and kaotic, their reputation precedes them on this forum for a good reason. They are also patient, I am not so much so I will hit you with some harsh truths there.

Don't take this shit personally and don't feel the need to counter every point with a 'but' to justify why you think what you think. It doesn't matter.

Would you rather learn or be right?

Post: #73

(11-01-2018 01:31 AM)Noir Wrote:  I agree 100%, I write this shit for future reference YET I think we should all be careful, the level that we come in with our advice.

In my case I think that both the macro and micro advice has been very helpful. I now appreciate that I've been coasting for a long time (probably forever, if I'm honest), relying more on finding "yes girls" and running "don't fuck it up" game rather than going after the girls I want and keeping my internal and external game on point. The last time I attempted night game, I literally talked to the first girl I bumped into at the bar, and when she had to leave I sat down at the bar until another girl walked up beside me to order a drink, and she was basically a "yes girl" until I fucked it up by telling her I was married. I'm a chickenshit when it comes to approaching and very inconsistent in general.

Quote: I don't think OP will get anything out of his original situation because he's got zero leverage. The odds are poor for the price he is paying.

Agreed. If she follows up with me and I have a spare night when I get back from vacation I might invite her out for a proper date with drinks and apps (to be fair to her, we've only spent about 4 hours together) but mentally I've moved on.

Quote:Nonetheless, we love analysing this shit so we go ahead.

We game to improve our collective wisdom, not for personal enjoyment. For the greater good.

Quote:For all the talk of congruence, I will be ultra dick to certain girls and an absolute gentleman to others and let them figure out how I am treating the others. I am incongruent in this sense (macro) but congruent individually (micro) to fuck with them. Because I know they want shit and I wanna complicate their roadmap into how they get that. The ones I am a gentleman are usually the ones that I wouldn't fuck, too, because that's my default.

In hindsight, I failed her shit test. It's like the girl who says she doesn't fuck on the first date, you say "ok" and then game accordingly. I should have said "of course, I'm a nice guy" while maintaining the dominant frame and treating her like shit. Instead I've let her boss me around and now I look like a pussy.

Quote:Coffee-dates.

Not much I can do about this due to time constraints and girls' flakiness. I basically allow myself one or two nights a week out, and my friends and existing plates always come first. Nothing worse than booking a night out (and forgoing revenue on my Airbnb condo) and then being left with my dick in my hands when the girl flakes or turns out to be a semi-pro escort.

In my situation coffee dates are not that bad in the scheme of things. I invite them to a coffee shop near my office, which is in the downtown core and usually takes the girl out of her comfort zone especially if she's still in college. I tell them to wait outside for me, arrive a few minutes late, always well dressed, and then take control of the conversation, line us up to order drinks, etc. Sure, I can't escalate physically and it does feel a bit like an interview, but I don't see that as a bad thing either; I want her to feel like she's being assessed, whether I want her to be a part of my life. After about an hour I wrap things up and say I'll be in touch, leaving them hanging. Then the next date I line up proper logistics and show her a taste of what I have to offer...

Quote:Would you rather learn or be right?

Learn, get the bang, avoid wasting time, not necessarily in that order.

Post: #74

Update: she just sent me a DM “hi babe”. What should I text next?

Post: #75

You're missing the point of coffee dates, they're not effective, regardless of it it fits in your schedule or not.

As for the hi babe, leave her on seen. If you reply, reply a few days later.