Post: #26

(10-11-2018 02:10 PM)quaker13 Wrote:  

(10-11-2018 01:23 PM)DimeBait Wrote:  People love to dismiss folks who express high notch counts because they can't fathom it. It's like the millionaire complaining to his middle-class buddy how tough his life is, it's all relative. I don't think it's meant to brag, but for reference. I can absolutely relate as an advanced bang-artist myself. This lifestyle is borderline sex addiction, an easy af (though empty and devoid of intimacy) once your running on auto-pilot.

Majority of my bangs came when I was barely getting the bills paid. Now, I'm a high achiever with disposable income and I've become EXTREMELY selective about who I bang. I don't drink anymore so I actually have to like the broads I bang, which is refreshing and rare at the same time. No making up excuses to for them to GTFO afterwards because I generally enjoy their company, until I don't.

However, I will say this, after banging an interacting with countless broads, OP you should be well aware of how fucked up women's personalities and personal lives are compared to their outwardly appearance. Yes, ideally, I would like an 8-10 level LTR as well, but I know from experience some of the best looking broads have little to offer besides fading looks. I've ignored the red flags and sacrificed my sanity for the sake of having a bad bish on my arm and I'll never do that again. I'd much rather have an adjustable 7 with a decent psyche, stable upbringing, an equally high status or achievement level. I don't want a pretty dumb wife that I keep locked in house like peter, peter, pumkin-eater, lol.

Attractive women really get a bad rap on this board. I don't find attractive women to be any better or worse personality wise than an objective 6 or 7. As matter of fact, if they are under a 6 they likely have very obnoxious male incel like personality traits would never want to experience at length under any circumstances

I feel you. I'm speaking from my experiences putting looks over everything else. It's easy to ignore flaws if she's bad af. My last LTR was an easy 8 and one of the sweetest women I've ever known, but not unlike the 6's & 7's, she had her fair share of deal-breaking shortcomings I overlooked and paid for it in the end.
I'm positive there is a 9-10, six-figure earner, equally yoked as I out here, but as mentioned previously, she feels she deserves 7 figure guys, lol. She'll keep holding out until she hits the wall. An adjustable 7 to me, could easily be a 9 if she spent a great deal of effort trying to be one. Whereas, instead, that effort is expended on being a better person as opposed to being a better looking person.

Post: #27

(10-11-2018 04:13 AM)personperson Wrote:  anyone else in the same situation? i feel like perhaps im deep down a 6 who wants an 8, and therefore have just had a lifetime of frustration and disappointment with women, because im chasing girls who are "out of my league" and i am unable to lower my standards, because over the years i have sporadically fucked some hot girls, which is what i want in a gf/relationship etc. i feel like perhaps iv been too alpha, if there is such a thing, over the years, because im so confident, brave to approach etc, and refuse to believe that there is such a thing as a "league" and refuse to believe that any girl is too good for me.

thoughts anyone?

I sort of was in the same boat. Did well with decent looking girls and many people over the years have told me that I'm very attractive but then everytime I would get the cold shoulder from the really hot ones, I would re-evaluate how attractive I actually am. Truth is, as a man, your looks shouldn't be your biggest concern. I'm close to 30, make well over six figures and am genuinely intelligent (i.e. I can talk about almost anything). I think those qualities outweigh any real or perceived physical flaws that I may have as a dude. That doesn't mean that you shouldn't take care of looks...at the very least stay healthy (workout, eat right, etc.) and you'll feel better. Also, learn how to brush off girls that give you the cold shoulder. Lastly, not sure where you're based out of, but I live in NYC. Most of the 8s and 9s here are hoping to hookup with a 7-figure Wall Streeter and from their perspective, that's a realistic goal.

Frankly, I think most women in this country who are above a 7 overvalue themselves especially the ones that were born and raised here. I was born and raised in Queens where there a ton of immigrant families and 1st gen folks from all different cultures and I've noticed that you're more likely to find LTR material with 7s+ if they're from an immigrant families from a culture that puts a strong value on some 'conservative' ideals. That's why you see fewer immigrant women subscribing to modern day feminism and the like.

Other option is to travel more. Plenty of hotties all over the world that simply like men for who they are...

Post: #28

Hey man, I can relate pretty well. I'm in the triple digit notch count myself with most of them being 6/7's. I've gotten the occasional 8 and a maybe 1 or 2 9's. The problem is, even when you have them it is a real pain to maintain them. I think being honest with myself, I'm a 5 or 6 in looks. Lifestyle and all the other factors bring me lets say to a 7/8. I'm in the same boat where its a lot easier to get the girls who are lower in the looks level. The problem is you're competing with a lot more guys to get those 8's or 9's. You're competing with men offering to take them out, buy them whatever they want, and it just pretty much becomes a lifestyle game.

I was living in a city downtown in an apartment the last few years. My stable was pretty solid there, but mostly 6's and 7's. The 8's never really stuck around or were difficult to seal the deal. Since then, I've moved into a 7 figure house and I can already see the difference in quality and getting them to stick around longer. I've got a current 9 who's got about 70/80 dudes in her inbox offering to take her out, but I can tell she's loyal to the money and the lifestyle. I don't actually give her anything, but I take her out for lunch, pick her up in my nice car, etc. I think the only way to really start moving into the next tier is to upgrade your looks or your lifestyle. Other than that, just gotta invest in 1 or 2 girls and hopefully they come around and you get out of the friend zone.

Post: #29

I think the key factor is validation.

Everyone knows Amazon. Their conversion rate of people going on the site to sales is about 20%. The average conversion rate for the top 500 retailers is 3.32%. Your mom 'n pops online store is probably about 0.3-0.5%. The latter is also about the like rate for an average looking guy on Tinder.

The reason is because Amazon are validated, trusted and seen as the top dog. They are the Dan B of online retail.

You can see the same distribution with the likes of Bieber, who is a sap who could easily be at home playing Minecraft ignoring his fat girlfriend's texts if he wasn't famous. Girls throw themselves as tween society has validated him as the designated area to do so.

On a lower level you can see the same phenomena on a local level. Women are about twice as likely to want a man if he is taken. The same reason. It's a citation. He's validated.

If you're are cold approaching women (online or in life) there is very little you can do to approach the level of validation you might really have beyond your appearance. In my mind, in the West women give guys who are as attractive as them a -2. Part of that is women have so many criteria. Game is the tool to try and change that -2 to at least neutral or a +1. Game will be distributed as in the above eCommerce distribution. The average guy's game is of very little value.

Judging from the forum, the market value of men in The West is in precipitous decline. The consensus appears to be that this is caused by social media and apps. I think that's true. Women have a string of criteria for men and the most important is generally validation/status. It's difficult to game that and everything else they want takes investment. However, by and large and particularly those in this thread, are only really interested in one thing: hot 8+. These apps and social media have led to men flooding women with the main thing they are looking for in a partner, but getting it themselves, validation, that they are hot.

Where attention/validation flows and accumulates it becomes less valuable. So we're in the position where the attention of a male 8 is now seriously eroded over what it would have been even with the wide-ranging demands of women and desire for status males.

This is very much a Western phenomena. This year I turned on Tinder in several second tier countries without identifying as a foreigner. A flood of matches: 7s and nice 8s, down to 18 and messages from WDs (would date). I come home and turn Tinder on. Famine.

If you are looking for an 8 in The West try FOBs and non-whites.

Post: #30

What’s with the bizarre feedback that a 200-300 notch count means you’re an elite player and should have no trouble getting high quality women? It’s always a struggle. Anyone that thinks that it gets easy still has a lay count under 20.

Duh. It’s pretty obvious anyone with three a digit notch count is banging lots of average women. Unless you happen to work in porn or be a rock star.

Even when you max out all your attributes things stay tough with hotter women. Their sexual market value is still above yours. They have a plethora of options with solid dudes and they’re careful about who they fuck.

The only exception might be if you really have some heavy leverage and access to women the general population doesn’t. Such as working in entertainment or speaking languages.

OP never claimed to have a city dailed in, lifestyle on lock, etc. He pointed out he mostly gets foreigners or travels himself. We all know what’s involved to get a 7+ western woman. It’s pretty much the reason this board exists.

The problem he’s describing is pretty standard. A modern western woman has her choice of men for casual sex. From lowly beta orbiters to handsome successful guys, even a chubby 5-6 can get sex if she makes it easy.

Female 5-6 can fuck a male 9-10 if she makes it easy. Male 5-6s? They’d be lucky to get 1-3s with the same ease. That’s just the way it is. Women’s SMV is almost always higher.

I’m sure the OP could get 7+ exclusively if he disciplined himself and put in the work. The problem is, at best, western women are spoiled and disinterested. At worst, they take half your shit and torture you.

So an average man’s goal is to ejaculate, by all means take the low hanging fruit. Why put in the extra work? If you want a relationship or heavy sexual arousal, then yeah you have to put in the work. But even then an average guy isn’t going to do much better than an 8.

Has anyone here ever seen an average guy with a really hot girl? It just doesn’t happen outside P4P. Sometimes you think you see this, but the guy is actually someone important or wealthy and it’s not obvious what’s going on.

That’s common in poorer countries. The guy might not need to be all that wealthy or whatever. Hence all the foreigner men flocking overseas and ruining the social dynamics of cities like Manila.

Post: #31

(10-11-2018 04:13 AM)personperson Wrote:  im tall, decent looking, intelligent, confident and comfortable in social situations, no major personality or physical flaws etc...game all the time, approach reguarly, am early 30s now, and I am about to give up.

Ever had a LTR with a 4 or 5?

No, because you consider yourself higher value than to do that.

Thats why the 8's don't want to bang you, they see you as below their value.

To gain access to them, you need to increase your value, money, looks, style or game - something's got to get much better to get into their league.

Post: #32

(10-12-2018 04:01 PM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:  

(10-11-2018 04:13 AM)personperson Wrote:  im tall, decent looking, intelligent, confident and comfortable in social situations, no major personality or physical flaws etc...game all the time, approach reguarly, am early 30s now, and I am about to give up.

Ever had a LTR with a 4 or 5?

No, because you consider yourself higher value than to do that.

Thats why the 8's don't want to bang you, they see you as below their value.

To gain access to them, you need to increase your value, money, looks, style or game - something's got to get much better to get into their league.

Yeah unfortunately that's often times how it goes. A lot of the 8+'s in the Western world beyond college simply won't fuck just to fuck. They want to see you bringing more to the table so to speak. Men on the other hand will definitely fuck below their weight all the time to cure droughts or to amass notch counts or simply to bust a nut. Will they LTR a lower end chick? Yeah probably not.

Post: #33

(10-12-2018 02:07 PM)Ten Feet Tall Right Now Wrote:  Has anyone here ever seen an average guy with a really hot girl? It just doesn’t happen outside P4P.

And social circle game. See: average-looking college fraternity guy with a stunner girlfriend.

Anyway, the replies in this thread are great. Everything that could be said has been said: you are getting average-looking girls because you are not top-tier in looks or status.

Post: #34

(10-12-2018 02:07 PM)Ten Feet Tall Right Now Wrote:  Has anyone here ever seen an average guy with a really hot girl? It just doesn’t happen outside P4P. Sometimes you think you see this, but the guy is actually someone important or wealthy and it’s not obvious what’s going on.

I see it pretty often, especially with girls aged 18-20. My friend and I will be in bars, with money to spend, clothes, physique, know everybody, decent game, but the best girl in the place is already with a completely average guy either because he had the access to her (could be social circle, Uni, work, etc.), or he just got there first.

Post: #35

As a veteran of the game I have the same issue. I have many many notches and I have lost count of how many I have (found it futile to keep counting) but for the life of me I couldn't figure out why even though my game has increased through the years I am still not able to get those 8s and even 9s with any consistency. I am stuck with 6s and 7s and with some grinding its not too much problem to close em.

I realized from reading the forum and listening to some other guys it just comes down to SMV. The 8s and 9s just don't see you as equal or better than them and you need to reverse engineer and figure out what exactly makes these girls tick. These 8s and 9s are fucking SOMEBODY. The question is who? What the he look like? What lifestyle does he live?... You need to either to copy/match that or make your own niche.

I have figured out/decided if I want a LTR with an 8 or 9 I gotta put that work in. Change my lifestyle, looks, chose a niche and try to dominate it. Figure out what your strengths are and try to maximize (monetize) them... meaning turn those into a weapon to get the women you want.

I am a black dude over in Germany where there are black guy lovers (who are 8s and 9s) and also hot girls who are interested in guys like me if my SMV is high enough.

I noticed that I can gain muscle and can grow a beard fairly well (among other things of course). I have decided to do whatever it takes for me to get big and ripped and grow as cool/unique beard as I can. I am going to try dominate that niche (girls who love buff, tatted, bearded black guys) and I am fairly positive if i excel at this I will get those 8s or 9s I have been trying to get for years.

Pick a lane which is attractive to the girls you want and dominate the fuck out of it.

I also used this niche game tactic to much success years ago working as a promoter in NYC

Post: #36

Let's not forget either that 8-10's are only a tiny percentage of the female population, so the vast majority of the girls you're going to encounter in the first place won't be 8-10's.

Post: #37

(10-13-2018 05:54 AM)The Stronger Sex Wrote:  Let's not forget either that 8-10's are only a tiny percentage of the female population, so the vast majority of the girls you're going to encounter in the first place won't be 8-10's.

Good point. I suspect that there exists a strong bell curve within the general population. And generally speaking, guys will find hotter clusters of girls in the college campuses (but these are a bit too young for some of us older guys), and certain magnet cities & countries throughout the world.

Post: #38

(10-12-2018 02:07 PM)Ten Feet Tall Right Now Wrote:  Has anyone here ever seen an average guy with a really hot girl? It just doesn’t happen outside P4P. Sometimes you think you see this, but the guy is actually someone important or wealthy and it’s not obvious what’s going on.

I would say it's very common in the upper and upper-middle classes even in Western countries. Lots of attractive girls marrying ugly dorks with the right position. It's part of the culture those girls are bred into, but I think that's slowly changing.

Post: #39

Kirdiesel nails this.

I'd add a few things:

1. Figure out what TYPE of 'super attractive' woman you want.

If you're with her just because she's an 8 that's desperate and unattractive. Lots of smokes on Tinder/IG look horrendous in terms of personality. If you see a few dozen girls where based on personality/face she'd be a girl you'd consider dating THEN get to thinking about how to improve yourself that way.

Stop thinking about them purely in terms of looks and have some standards for her personality. This alone will totally flip your frame. From 'oh she's hot that never works for me' to 'she's hot but is she good enough for me'--everything about your messages, persona, dating will change if you think that way about WHO you want in your life instead of some externally based rating thing.


2. You are aiming for too many things at once.

You have in mind this smokeshow eight coming over and being your perfect loving girlfriend for years when you have barely dated any. Spending a few hours or a full day a week with a girl is very different than banging.

Pick a goal: date/bang a succession of eights for a few months each, or find a great loving gf, mother of your children, etc. Or get both going on simultaneously.... But you can't suddenly aim higher for a 'relationship' than you're actually dating... and you can't 'cash out' and marry the hottest girl you bang...

You're spread too thin or aiming for something that's way too huge a discontinuity. Pick one axis and improve on it--relationships/dating with a high 6.5/7 you enjoy and could see dating (which takes work of finding and developing); or banging lots of 8s sporadically. But don't try to up your deadlift 100lbs and train for a marathon simultaneously.


3. TRAVEL--could it be any more obvious if that's where you're getting your best bangs... If you really prioritize your SMV, export your product to a market where it fetches a much higher premium... you may have a WAY better shot of gaining a point of SMV that way... No one is saying move to Manila, but check out Bangkok or Taipei. There are legitimately nice cities (and legitimately VERY nice areas in these and other cities).

4. Adjust to current reality. This idea from forty years ago of a loving/devoted wife/girlfriend just barely/doesn't exist today. Online dating, smartphones, social media, etc. are wrecking and have wrecked these things. As has easy divorce, etc. Blackdragon, Roosh, Roissy, EVERYONE has written about these. You've benefited from hypergamy so also be realistic about what it means for the realism of relationships these days.

5. A repeat, but: are you really in the right city? Some places really do have a two-point difference in terms of your personal SMV. If you're in Australia I can't imagine the ectomorph thing is great, that's just a 'big' place. While in Asia or other places you'd probably outcompete big/bulky guys who have higher value than you locally.

In summary, you sound focused on numbers that don't mean anything and you're in a disillusionment spell before you accept some things. There are real tradeoffs. Hotter girls in (perhaps) less desirable--or at least less familiar--places. LOTS of effort to gain lots of weight if you insist on staying in your birthplace. Hotter girls more available for short-term dating than would want to 'settle down' permanently. Prioritize and decide what YOU personally value most and want rather than caring one bit about some number rating.

(10-13-2018 05:27 AM)kirdiesel Wrote:  I realized from reading the forum and listening to some other guys it just comes down to SMV. The 8s and 9s just don't see you as equal or better than them and you need to reverse engineer and figure out what exactly makes these girls tick. These 8s and 9s are fucking SOMEBODY. The question is who? What the he look like? What lifestyle does he live?... You need to either to copy/match that or make your own niche.

I have figured out/decided if I want a LTR with an 8 or 9 I gotta put that work in. Change my lifestyle, looks, chose a niche and try to dominate it. Figure out what your strengths are and try to maximize (monetize) them... meaning turn those into a weapon to get the women you want.

I am a black dude over in Germany where there are black guy lovers (who are 8s and 9s) and also hot girls who are interested in guys like me if my SMV is high enough.

I noticed that I can gain muscle and can grow a beard fairly well (among other things of course). I have decided to do whatever it takes for me to get big and ripped and grow as cool/unique beard as I can. I am going to try dominate that niche (girls who love buff, tatted, bearded black guys) and I am fairly positive if i excel at this I will get those 8s or 9s I have been trying to get for years.

Pick a lane which is attractive to the girls you want and dominate the fuck out of it.

I also used this niche game tactic to much success years ago working as a promoter in NYC

Post: #40

Kirdiesel has made a good observation here in that the men I know who consistently get the top tier women from nightlife tend to be a bit polarizing in their style and take things to extremes (for example facial tattoos are getting pretty common now that necks and hands are pretty much ubiquitous). It's all a trade off though.

Also let's not give these women too much credit, they don't have as high barriers to entry as some people presume and will often have been fucked by complete scum bags with nothing going for them.

Post: #41

I haven't went through all the posts in this thread, but here's my thoughts:

Any girl above a 7, at least in today's society with smartphones, thirsty men, feminism, etc, will be really hard to get.

They simply have way too many options and thirsty guys constantly hitting on them.

I have been on dates with beautiful women and it is simply much harder to get a second date - nevermind getting laid.

The real way to get really good women is through social circle game. Hot women don't need to use online dating or go to the club to get banged - they already know they're hot and don't need that attention. The true way to get them is to access them through their friends.

Post: #42

It also really comes down to where you're trying to pick up women. If you're in a city like LA and hang out in the same places where the actors go, then yea you'll see a bunch of 8s and 9s but they have access to a bunch of rich actors. If you hang out in more middle class neighborhoods where there's lots of immigrant families, you'll see a bunch of hotties as well who are less superficial and more humble. They, too, will seek certain qualities in a man but won't rule you out simply because you don't look like a model or aren't rolling in dough.

Post: #43

Yeah hmm I guess social circle and going for young naive girls who are easy to impress could give you reliable access to hotter women. Also maybe going for niches or going out early? It’s still going to be tough. Just bc you see those guys with the girls doesn’t mean they are closing it with cock in vagina.

Post: #44

I'm in a similar position to you OP except I'm only shooting for 6's and 7's, as right now I can only get 4's and the occasional 5. Very depressing.

Post: #45

You get average girls becuase you are an average guy.
Is that the truth? Yes
Can you do something about it? Yes

Get a better haircut
Dress well
Focus on you career
Read more books
Extend your social circles
Get a hobby or play a sport

You need to increase your value, since there are a lot of good looking guys around. Do you want to attract 8+? We all do, therfore we all try to improve ourselves. There are many factors that can delay you , maybe you live in a shitty town, maybe you don't explore enough. Think about it.

Post: #46

The number one factor in game is location. Location, location, location!! 80% of the game is about location! Look for the right country, then the right city in that country, then the right neighborhood in that city. If you get those factors right it just becomes a case of do a decent number of approaches and don't fuck it up. Anybody who has traveled a lot and gamed in multiple countries knows this. In short the main problem is that you live in Australia. I guarantee you would not be making this post if you were living in a country like Colombia. Focus on making enough money to permanently leave Australia (i.e. move to greener pastures) and your problem will disappear.

Post: #47

delete double post

Post: #48

(10-11-2018 01:23 PM)DimeBait Wrote:  People love to dismiss folks who express high notch counts because they can't fathom it. It's like the millionaire complaining to his middle-class buddy how tough his life is, it's all relative. I don't think it's meant to brag, but for reference. I can absolutely relate as an advanced bang-artist myself. This lifestyle is borderline sex addiction, an easy af (though empty and devoid of intimacy) once your running on auto-pilot.

...

However, I will say this, after banging an interacting with countless broads, OP you should be well aware of how fucked up women's personalities and personal lives are compared to their outwardly appearance.

Of course 200 isnt an unrealistic number in of itself. But the lack of game knowledge that should be acquired even by "osmosis" by someone with that amount of exposure to women and their tendencies doesn't seem possible. Even hitting 6/7 s requires some basic understanding of their attraction / arousal / bang sequences. That's what doesn't ring as genuine about the OP.

Post: #49

(10-11-2018 09:03 AM)BlackHussar Wrote:  "Fucked 200 girls", so your game is supposed to be perfect; yet you can't pick up a beautiful girl. But you could pick up two hundred 6's. Two hundred.

I don't understand why people lie here. It's a men's forum, it's meant to learn things, socialize with your brethren of alphas and players, improve yourself. Why would you lie? Besides, the 5% of us here are supposed to be more manly, honest and virtuous than the rest, especially when conversing mano a mano with a fellow player. Honorable, if you'd like. So what's the point?

I could understand if people wrote "20" when they've fucked 5 girls, bragging a bit and trying to get a higher status on the Forum; but 200? Just why?

You claim you've fucked two hundred girls, but that you have an issue, any kind of issue, with your game? Please. Unless those girls were all prostitutes, you're not being completely honest.

Correct yourself, say that you've slept with 7 average girls, be a man among your brethren here and then we can talk.

I knew dudes that banged a 100 in 12 months in Oz ..They just banged 2 to 4 points below themselves..Knew one goodlooking Brit that banged 30 in a month on a bet in Sydney.
I have a DJ mate that got like high 80s 90s every year here.

OP gets approached cause thats what 5 and 6s do here in OZ .
Especially Melbourne we are the Bangkok bar workers for Western Women.

You have to understand Aussie dudes...Unless they have travelled and gamed ...Aussie dudes believe that they should be the pretty one not the woman they are with....Its deep seated and goes back to the convict days or the days when this country was 75% male ..
Every other guy will pat you on the back say well done bro she is beautiful ..The Aussie male will be filled with anger as he believes you are batting out of your league..
I swear only English guys come close to Aussie dudes when it comes to bad taste in women...

OP your problem is you think you are not pretty enough like a chick does.

5 and 6 don't shit test you so you are use to being validated and worshipped by them.

8 and 9s want to know if you are alpha enough and match your looks so they shit test you and you fall apart everytime mistaking the shit test for rejection...

Instead welcome the shit test as a signal she likes you and treat her like a 6..You are afraid of beauty like every other Aussie cunt..I'm surprised you got a Russian those chicks got game and most Aussie dudes eject thinking the Russian is a Prossie.

If you are getting 5s and 6s then it ain't your looks.Its inner game...You have to go to the venues were 8s 9s go and get rejected your sub comms are off.If chicks see you with heaps of ugly women then you'll get ...ugly women..
Next time in the bar just walk up to the best looking bird and cheers her with your glass.Only talk to the pretty ones in OZ the 5s and 6s can block out better looking birds .Seen it alot over the years..Be nice to them but disengage they are fucking your game.

If you are a boring cunt with no edge forget about 8s..its not your looks....Maybe when you see a 8 you don't want to fuck her like she is a dirty whore like she wants to be fucked so you treat here like a pretty princess.

Post: #50

Good thread but I always wonder how much behavior, compliance and attitude play into a women being a "9" or "10" for guys

Taking into account a lot of guys here are still in their 20's, and looks being the most optimal indicator of attractiveness for us...as a man in his 40's I now take into account the whole package so to speak.

Sometimes I don't think guys factor in how much WORK (Read: Game) they may have to put in to keep that unicorn in check.

It's like desiring that corner office and six figure job with all the perks, without considering the workload or hours the job entails

Just something to marinate on