Post: #251

Not really about good looking but i noticed that sometimes when i get very blatant and prolonged iois, the approach seems to go wrong.

I think there are 2 reasons:
1- The girl when shes that interested sets a very high standard and exaggerated image of you in her head, which is hard to keep up with in reality
2- She feels the need to overcompensate for being so easy/inviting

Maybe good looking guys get the same sometimes?

Post: #252

I feel like I'm pretty good looking and have been told so. It's not really a different advantage but a different style.

Your game can be much more simple, direct and your verbal game doesn't have to wow chicks. A lot of good looking guys forget this but to act like it's a disadvantage is just silly.

Post: #253

Well ..there's different strata here. One layer is the drunk/stoned chick (inhibitions gone). This is becoming more popular with women because they know how complicated and fucked up they made themselves.

Another layer is "the emboldened 3 glasses of wine chick"...she is confident and appears to know and go for what she wants.....recipricates IOI ...funny talkative...unless she has a 4th glass of wine....the hamster arrives.

No booze/drugs? layer...you can actually see a chick mentally meltdown...her brain short circuiting.(stuttering,flushed,glittery eyes,pink ears,looking around,can't stand still,doesn't hear what you say or follow the conversation)...it's mitigated for her if there's a group for her to deflect conversation too ...but tough on her if it's one on one (simplist analogy you meeting Pam Anderson one on one)
The difference is guys can stutter with a hardon... a girls cock is her brain....girls use to faint (weak knees) from too much blood rushing to that organ

Another layer is the "hit and run" that girls use to avoid doing the attractive guy one on one. A tit pressed on your elbow, a brush against your ass or back so that you turn for a look, footsies under a table...why do it? because the chicks know they'll fuck up if they talked to the guy.
Regardless of some layers I wrote above, this is the game girls wanted..or complained to get "for a nice guy"... but no girl follows there own rules on how to be treated/engaged ....so confusion reigns..and more so for attractive guys

Post: #254

Yeah sometimes hardcore ioi also come with an bitch shield/compensation if you’re a guy she sees as threatening bc you have no real physical flaws. I’ve had girls stare me down hard across the bar and nod me over. Then reply to my opener with offputting stuff like “I’m not leaving my friends” or “you think a lot of yourself, don’t you?” (Usually I just say hello so it’s not asshole game.)

What I’ve noticed is you get this from girls who have some confidence issue tied to a physical trait they’re selfconscious about. It usually results in them not getting approached at all by betas or getting pumped and dumped by players. There like 7-8s. Which is why they react that way. For instance I’ve gotten this from girls taller than most men in the room. Girls who could be striking if they got a nose job. Etc. the betas are scared. The alphas pump and dump. Take it as a compliment.

Post: #255

(10-11-2017 04:02 PM)realologist Wrote:  I feel like I'm pretty good looking and have been told so. It's not really a different advantage but a different style.

Your game can be much more simple, direct and your verbal game doesn't have to wow chicks. A lot of good looking guys forget this but to act like it's a disadvantage is just silly.

Meant to say disadvantage not advantage. Phone posts.

Post: #256

Several that I have noted.



First of all, people assume you are some kind of Casanova (while in truth, you aren't)- especially when you meet someone for the first time.To be honest, that annoys me a little bit. If i dress well and take care of my appearance well, that does not mean I can bang any chick I want.


Second, the total amount amount of IOI's will decrease. Below average and average girls will stop giving them, because, deep inside them, they know that they can't have you. Girls which are above average (and up) will still give them. Now...if you are aiming for quantity...this might be a disadvantage for you. If you are after quality (in my case), it's fine. This pattern has been noted by Pook as well.


Third means that you'll have to avoid a ''negative pre-selection'' (fuck it, that's the best description I have come with). What does that mean? When people (women especially) see you with a very good chick (even when you are related), they (sub)conciously assume that you are a quality person, and they want to add your biological material to their own (too much Star Trek). But...if you are with a girl that looks like a scarecrow...they'll assume that you are a paper tiger, and disqualify you.


Story time.


A few months ago, in the gym, I have met a guy. Your average dude bro, on cheap steroids, but he was OK to talk to. Later on, his GF arrived (yes, they kissed in the mouth). She was fat, and not so pretty. Deep inside of me, I was disgusted. How come you, a good looking dude (no homo) fall so low? I lost (again, subconsciously) all respect for him. I am pretty sure every other guy present lost as well. After that day, I have never seen him again. She crushed him to death, maybe?


And fourth, girls (younger especially), will feel very insecure (even intimidated) when you approach them: Many girls here in EE aren't really aware of their beauty (good thing) and have never been approached except by wasted guys in the nightclub (or online).


I can live with those disadvantages, as most of us.

Post: #257

I've got a new perspective on this one after some introspective thought. Now, I don't know how good looking you have to be for this to apply, but you certainly have to have true feminine beauty i.e. Brad Pitt, Paul Newman type of look - beauty comparable to that of a beautiful woman.

When you have that, perhaps coupled with high T, you don't appreciate beauty in other people and women just don't have their beauty to use on you; you get used to your own beauty that you see in the mirror everyday and no longer are impressed by looks; rather seeing it as merely a prerequisite, and find yourself looking for other distinguishing traits; much like a woman sees and judges a man. I remember when I was a child (and perhaps in an awkward phase) - women were beautiful. I enjoyed looking at them, couldn't talk to them without getting shy, and their beauty had a real impact on me - it felt amazing. If I could sleep with a woman while seeing them as I saw them then, I would probably go to heaven for the night.

Of course like anything, the situation has its pros and cons. You certainly feel like you can talk to anyone, without much fear of rejection, and people automatically respect you. Most women would gladly sleep with you given that you provide them 3 maybe 4 hours of attention and fun... But again, the catch is that you don't want to give them that attention unless they have a great personality - you simply feel no strong attraction towards most women, and if you do, it's extremely fickle. Banging a 7 might bring the satisfaction (and afterwards pain) of banging a 5 for the average man.

I truly understand why beautiful women are so flaky - they are unaffected by beauty and rather look for that extra spark to be turned on. The difference is that you're still a man and if someday you want to settle down, you have to marry a beauty queen/model in order to truly value her beauty, and make her feel wanted like all women crave. It has its challenges.

My conclusion is that there is no winning...or losing for that matter. Be happy with what you have and make the most of it.

Post: #258

There are no disadvantages for good looking guys, just different circumstances.

Are there disadvantages for having lots of money? As someone who came from a poor background to riches, hell no. Even though money has made me through stress and depression. The niceties it brings are unparalleled.

Sometimes I go to a nice restaurent. I feel lonely and depressed. But deep down, I'm saying: Well, at least I'm not the guy who is washing dishes. Sometimes I cross eyes with the "guy who washes dishes" or whatever. We are both sad but we have different circumstances.

It is the same for handsome guys: They have a set of challenges that intersect with the average guy. But they are not the average guy whatever your game is.

On a room, once you got your girl inside, the average guy will be playing game and tricks. The handsome guy just fucking shut his mouth and wait for action.

Post: #259

oh, and I forgot what makes me think that sex is a plenty for handsome dudes.

I have a really handsome friend. Like really handsome.

I notice a stark difference in IOI, eye contact and approaches from women when we go out together. Like girls choosing to sit next to us. Giving plenty of eye contact or laughing loudly and we have been approached several times that I'm pretty certain it is not me the cute face. Why? Because it almost never happens when I go out alone or with a different friend (actually different friends).

So yes, having a beautiful face is a recipe for success even if your game is weak or non-existant. But I'm not surprised and you should not.

Post: #260

I learned by my late twenties that taking care of my "appearance" was a curse.
THIS fact I learned in my early 20's I got the prom queens when I looked and dressed like sh1t but since I liked good grooming and appearance for myself all that resulted in was alot of average chicks wanting to fuck the popular dude (lipstick case notch) and called a male slut...but no prom queens....weird

I grew a beard in my late 20's to cover up my looks! It didn't work the beard made me look edgy-er?
I also assumed older chicks my age would be more mature about good looking men....nope..wrong
Chicks age faster...I didn't....chicks don't want younger guy even though I wasn't!.…..another reason for the beard..too look older!.
Too this day ...chicks "good looks discriminate" ...they don't want to be outshone...to worry about not being good enough...to have a guy stolen...list is longggg

I've said it many times..it's not that I don't want to go out with girls in my own age group....the girls my age reject me! and technically they point me to younger girls..more modern day hypocrisy from women stereo-typing men when it's their "self esteem" or self worth about themselves thats broken

Post: #261

@Irenicus, on your 4th point, I definitely see it. The girls I want in EE are the sweet, cute type, and they are nervous when I approach them, or if not when I approach, nervous on the date, or if not on the date, nervous when thinking about the next date because it is closer to sex and she has a high estimation % change that I will pump and dump her after sex, even when I fucking won't.

Also, some girls literally run away, like sprint, deer in headlights. I find this pretty funny. Other times I've had girls spazz out and repeat the same line or just some gibberish over and over again trying to get the words out but they can't.

I'm by no means exceptionally good looking, but I get nearer the top in EE, so that's why I get those reactions. Sometimes I have fucking cursed the game gods because I'm fucking nervous and she's fucking nervous so it causes us both to run away from each other (yes sometimes I eject out of a sudden wave of nerves).

Post: #262

@ skank hunt @Irenicus
My text msg tonight with girl in Kiev

Me: Oksana you free for some coffee this week?
Oksana: I am not ready for love I have already 2-3 loves in my life,
Me: Where did this love issue come from I just wanted coffee, do you want coffee?

WOW ....met her for coffee once seemed nice,,,and later she ran all over the place in her head!
yeah EE girls are a fascinating bunch...quirky

Post: #263

One thing that annoys me about being tall/goodlooking/tall dark and handsome/whatever the fuck you want to call it is happening to me again at work right now. Girl at work starts flirting with me in front of other guys/coworkers to the point where it's obvious, and I've learned from hard experience to never again bang a chick I work with. So now I have to deal with all the jealousy and hating from my male co workers and I don't even get the pussy because I've learned my lesson. Shit is stupid. Oh well, at least Halloween is coming up, hopefully I can get a cat or a nurse or something really drunk and bang them.

Post: #264

(10-23-2017 12:00 PM)Skank_Hunt Wrote:  @Irenicus, on your 4th point, I definitely see it. The girls I want in EE are the sweet, cute type, and they are nervous when I approach them, or if not when I approach, nervous on the date, or if not on the date, nervous when thinking about the next date because it is closer to sex and she has a high estimation % change that I will pump and dump her after sex, even when I fucking won't.

Also, some girls literally run away, like sprint, deer in headlights. I find this pretty funny. Other times I've had girls spazz out and repeat the same line or just some gibberish over and over again trying to get the words out but they can't.

I'm by no means exceptionally good looking, but I get nearer the top in EE, so that's why I get those reactions. Sometimes I have fucking cursed the game gods because I'm fucking nervous and she's fucking nervous so it causes us both to run away from each other (yes sometimes I eject out of a sudden wave of nerves).

Most of the girls in EE (from what I have seen) believe that attractive men are Casanovas, and they are afraid that you will pump them and disappear (see point one). And if you aren't native...they will assume that you will pump and dump. You'll have to work hard to prove to them that you'll stick around.


You need to understand that all the things you have experienced in Poland have nothing to do with you, or your Game. The girls will rather date a native who will stick around, than a foreigner who likely won't. If I ever go full Bruce Jenner () I would behave in the same way.



And Incubus, that girl is probably looking for a LTR. She assumes that you won't stick around, and is making excuses.

Post: #265

LOL...my brothers wedding the brides sister was sticking her tongue down my throat (very uncomfortable later on...never again).
My girlfriends cousin at family reunion caught by an uncle the cousins feet in my crotch under pick nik table( booted out of reunion...never do that again)

Work is horrible for women picking the wrong place (where they feel all comfortable) to hit on guys to play play thier fantasy game with a fantasy guy they wouldn't dare do in real life.
I experienced things at work by girls that girls wouldn't do even if drunk and at a bar...lmao
I was at the gym the other day I saw a chick with great abs...no amazing abs...the chick caught me looking (short for me...maybe a 6 looks wise) I internally said to myself OH OH....sure enough she started working out near me, trying to get something going....I swore off chicks at the gym after pumping and dumping one ...she didn't appreciate it and hung out with the no necks later stirring up trouble for me.

I don't think chicks realise that good looking guys know there's a price for him to pay for engaging and he knows it....and there is never a downside for women..try getting two workplace ladies in competition with each other on how uncomfortable they can make you! ...and the guys ..You old stud you sh1t...gag....as you stand there mortified about your job future
Nothing like a spurned woman and human resources at work....lmao
Is there a invisible man halloween outfit for me?

Post: #266

Complaining about being good looking is like complaining that your dick is too big.

Post: #267

not gonna bite, I really want too ....but too many guys are posting here with REAL attractive issues.
Good try though!

Post: #268

This explains all of my game failures ever. I am just too damned sexy for my own good. One day I hope to shrink a foot, gain 50lbs, get my face burned in a fire, and go on unemployment. The chicks will flock to me then!

If gals are intimidated by you... it's called comfort game. Most dudes need to put more in to attraction game. Maybe attractive people are really more stupid and less willing to adapt. Ridiculously funny though.

Post: #269

I'd say one disadvantage is that girls sometimes assume you're out of their league.

Post: #270

(10-24-2017 06:30 AM)Irenicus Wrote:  Most of the girls in EE (from what I have seen) believe that attractive
men are Casanovas, and they are afraid that you will pump them and disappear (see point one). And if you aren't native...they will assume that you will pump and dump. You'll have to work hard to prove to them that you'll stick around.


You need to understand that all the things you have experienced in Poland have nothing to do with you, or your Game. The girls will rather date a native who will stick around, than a foreigner who likely won't. If I ever go full Bruce Jenner () I would behave in the same way.

Yeah, logically I know that is right. But sometimes it's very easy to take it personally or just get pissed off at the situation in general when it seems that most girls (especially when trying for dates, and escalation) seem to give me more shit than if I was an average native. It's like they think because I am supposedly this "Casanova" that I can take all kinds of bullshit and that I actually don't have feelings or a heart to the point of me probably being a deranged psychopath whose sole mission on this planet is to pump and dump poor innocent unsuspecting young women.

I have tried a number of approaches to this. Some have worked some have not.

-Being cocky doesn't work. Or most stuff in USA game.
-Asking if they are OK, subtle signs of caring about them helps. But not enough to get them to trust.
-But complete "overchoding" doesn't seem to work. I think they suspect that this is not real. Either that or you are just a pussy.

I think there is some line between showing you care earlier on than you would in the West, but not so much that you trip her "bullshit detector".

I'm not sure if there is any solution in EE especially in places where girls are very clued up on "foreign Casanovas" coming in for quick trips and doing the pump and dump. In 2010 they might have been less suspicious and you might be able to make progress... Nearly 8 years later and a hell of a lot of damage has been done by PUA bootcamps, turkish pests, italian/spanish men, and bang missions by PUAs not on bootcamps (a lot by members of this forum and other forums) and so on. With the internet widespread, girls who aren't even in locations that are particularly damaged might well be aware of the phenomenon and keep their guard up.

I know ultimately "Comfort game" is the solution, but when a girl is too suspicious to come out on a date with you, or a 2nd date, or 3rd date because she expects as a "Casanova" you are going to try for sex, then you don't even get the face time to build that necessary comfort.


@astro -- the problem is as follows. If you live in the US/UK/West, it's an arms race to the bottom so you have an extreme oversupply of very attractive men compared to extreme undersupply of attractive women, or even decent women. So the market is fucked. A "good looking guy" but not extremely so, in the USA, would have to work very hard at cold approach to get even average girls.

So the same guy goes to EE, and suddenly you see this situation flipped on its head. The women are far more attractive than the men. Suddenly, instead of being maybe top 20%, you are a top 2% guy, and foreign to boot. Girls label you a fly by night "Casanova" who will inevitably pump and dump them. Once they label you this way it is very difficult to shake off. Often you're not even given the chance to show you are different, you are just labeled and that's it. This is why the local guys still have the massive home advantage and why being a "very good looking guy" (relatively speaking) in these places works against you. Heck, being average and foreign, or just foreign nowadays, can often just be the nail in the coffin.

Post: #271

I wouldn't say there is an oversupply of very attractive men in the West, most men I know are out of shape and dress poorly.

The problem is that women in the West are not punished for getting out of shape, there are many guys who will date out of shape women and keep them around.

In the EE, the men won't tolerate such behaviour and the women are kept in line. I recall talking to a girl from the Ukraine, who said if she acted out her boyfriend would cross the street and find a new girl.

Another big factor, is that women in the west are starting to earn more money than men. So they aren't relying on your for a meal or for you to buy her heels, like her EE counterpart.

No matter what country you go to, women will generally prefer men from their own "culture". So to them I don't believe they look at you as being in the top 20%, the average man there is more masculine than the average guy in the West. These women may look at you as a meal ticket, a way out of their depressing soviet block apartment they live in or if you are lucky a fun night.

That is why many guys have uprooted themselves and are now living in these places. Despite this I have spoken to a forum member who lives in the EE and he complained about the amount of foreign guys that are in the city.

When I speak about guys in the West, I am talking about men in Canada and the UK. I have been to America countless times and don't see anything down there in the men that is different, other than when I went to Miami. The dudes there are on some next level fitness and fashion.

Post: #272

Good points Rudebwoy
@Skankhunt....Ive read some of your other posts which seemed frustrated, I think with poland and here in the ukraine.
My advice is that you may be an attractive guy but if you dress like a local and look like a local....you will have problems.....it has nothing to do with the foreign swarms. There is 2 basic parts to the 1000's of chicks n Kiev...the ones that want to go mix with the foreigners and the ones that don't. ..meaning don't write any country off because of tourists
Rudebwoy kinda pointed to one issue ...Miami guys and fashion.
But in the EE wealth power and security is what the women get cranked over. There are only so many ogliarachs here taking in women. The mindset of the people is the system will at any time take what they have away. The rich foreigner is one good option to get security. IF a young local chick wants to marry for love a local guy she is accepting having nothing (or for the system to take).....So you may need some SUITS...did you bring any?
Lastly...young guys won't get looked at much they have nothing to offer other than maybe a promise to wear a condom. Chicks want an older guy and from my times here...how old ( once a chick hits 25ish) doesn't matter
Lastly Lastly.....your ground game is probably in the wrong locations....times....days....bars...etc ..your out of sync with the area ....I don't pipeline so nothing to offer there
Hope the post helps
Finally ...I was waiting for this chick the other day in Kiev she was running late, so when she arrived I asked what held her up..she said her girlfriend had a problem with her wedding dress....oh she getting married?
Yes I'm a bridesmaid and the wedding is in INDIA next month.....wow that's neat. I said ...I wish her luck there
So tourists are doing very well it appears!

Post: #273

(10-24-2017 09:09 AM)Fortis Wrote:  I'd say one disadvantage is that girls sometimes assume you're out of their league.

I have met few women who had self doubt or low self esteem. Even the ugliest girls think they deserve a tall good looking rich athletic funny famous man with a big cock.

Post: #274

(10-24-2017 06:53 AM)Remington Wrote:  Complaining about being good looking is like complaining that your dick is too big.

I have like 2 inches more than my best friend, and more girth (don't ask me how I know that). He is pretty average, I am pretty long and big.

However I am ugly (average at best) and not very high testosterone looking, he has a big beard, more physical game and isn't ugly.

Result: He has banged more and way more beautiful girls than me. I spend way more time with my dick in my hand, whereas with his very average dick he can bang hotties.

So... not exactly a great comparison.

Post: #275

I don't know who can relate to this but there is another disadvantage for an attractive guy. I call it getting "picked"

Your out and about or at a social thing. Your doing whatever where ever

And a chick appears seemingly out of no where and it's usually a 8 or 9

You say a nice "How you doing" with a little small talk then shortly it occurs to you...she isn't going away or intends to....and why am I on my best behavior all of a sudden?

She isn't pump and dump she's quality.....she isn't the type to bullshit too/at

She's got that slight smile as she gazes at you...focused entirely on you. you get that knowing inside that no matter what you do/say she doesn't care.

So at that point it occurs to you your fucked (if it happens enough....few survive a first encounter of that magnitude)

You won the lottery...but you don't want the prize....why?

1) She's the one you'll work 200 hours a week for
2)She'll get any number of kids she wants...whether you want any or not
3) She'll control everything
4) You'll just be an intoxicated slave..no identity other than the lucky guy getting the great pussy
5) please add more...

That day "a guy" just went outside to play he wasn't looking for anything and is confronted with the above....it can really screw a guy up that day and maybe months afterwards especially if he let the goddess go.

Also note when it happens and I've been around buddies of mine that it has happened too, we guys get the message and leave her to work her subtle passive magic on him.

No it isn't a school crush nor a bar hottie or a church thing or work related ...each of those types of scenarios a guy is prepared mentally for to some degree. (probably fantasized and jerked off too)

This is more a beach thing or walking a dog or jog in the park or grabbing a bite to eat or at the gym or a concert/baseball game where you were just picked and moved in on and knew within 15 minutes your entire life was about to be turned upside down and you didn't care

Hope it makes sense.