Post: #26

(09-06-2018 06:44 PM)Mizo1234 Wrote:  Dude , you don’t have to be aggressive . It was innocent question. At least , you stated before that your main source of lays is online. I was asking maybe you can give us insights why this is the case for you . Maybe advantages we don’t know

Because you don't listen and you don't take advice.

It's like calmly talking to a screeching autistic child.


Use the forum search function if you're actually interested in learning what guys do on here that works for them.

Like I said before, I'm done trying to help you unless you shape up.

Post: #27

Alright sounds good . This hurts my feeling

Post: #28

(09-06-2018 06:56 PM)Mizo1234 Wrote:  Alright sounds good . This hurts my feeling

I'm just trying to help you brother, (even if I get frustrated with some of you newbies sometimes ) but you gotta help yourself first man.

I'm not trying to insult you, I'm giving you some tough love, you've made alot of improvements from when you first started, that I'm happy for you.

You just need to kick it up a notch, to get to that next level!

Post: #29

I know man , you are so helpful . I can see your frustration . Thanks for the help .

Post: #30

Shameless plug for my March post in the blackpill daygame thread (and indeed that thread in general) which touches on a lot of the points mentioned.

In particular skip to the second section ("2. The Promise, and: A perfect storm") where I develop the thesis that game as we've been sold it (especially PUA / cold approach game) either was always a myth or, rather than being the norm as we tend to believe, was actually an extremely fascinating but transient flash-in-the-pan.

I.e. the period of time and number of places, in which a guy could get decent results just using what was between his ears, his mouthpiece, and basic body tuning — without resorting to trappings like travel/sex tourism/geoarbitrage, digital nomadism, social media, tinder, permanent body modifications, 'social circle game', 'lifestyle/hobby game' — was far narrower than is believed, and is a lot less than its outsize influence on the broader societal culture would make it seem.

(Common story with subcultures — as with pyramid schemes, by the time you've heard about them, you've probably missed the boat. The carrying capacity of cutting-edge, influential subcultures is far smaller than latecomers think, so that the founders have already either moved on, closed themselves off, or feed off the unknowing newcomers.)

Instead what we have is a bunch of guys being lured in by that promise of just being able to use (more or less) the gift of gab to swoop mass fly girls, and then having the goalposts shifted on them further and further away from this 'pure game' towards the external trappings mentioned above, without any acknowledgement that the goalposts are being shifted or re-evaluation of whether the new goalposts make the ROI worthwhile.

On the topic of what beer mentioned earlier in this thread: I've been considering for a while now starting a blackpill game forum (on cordial terms with RVF) for young guys. Maybe even only allow open registration for under-27 guys, with guys over 27 being confirmed in on a case-by-case basis. (E.g. IIRC corsega is over 26, but keeps it real as fuck without the condescension, lame wannabe Big Baller Trolling, value-tapping, and out-of-touchness that a lot of the older guys have.)

Maybe even go more specific and make it for guys who are between 21 and 26, or who are under 21 if they are not at school/college (maybe allow community college). Finding themselves once more at the bottom of the totem pole, but of 'adult society', early-20's guys have unique challenges and circumstances they tend to face, shared by neither younger guys at school/college, nor guys 27 and above.

Call it the 'Millennial/X borderkids social media support group' and have corsega as our group counselor / drill sergeant. Confess when we step on the scales and don't meet our follower gain targets for the week, lol.

The difficulty is balancing blackpill and game.

There's no end to good material (old and new) on classical, old-school game. But its applicability nowadays in much of the Anglosphere is questionable.

On the other hand, while many of the MGTOW, Lookism guys are extremely insightful, wickedly funny, and are picking up on stuff and developing theory nobody else is talking about -- fundamentally, those forums are corrosive and poisonous.

Not sure it's possible to balance that kind of brutal black hole-level blackpill with a focus on maximising results given the hand we've been dealt -- past a certain point, truth-seeking and theory-crafting are probably incompatible with the upper levels of game.

Although given what corsega says about FB groups being the way of the future, maybe I'm already old and out-of-touch myself and need to get with the times!

See also my post in the BMGO thread on game, game denial, self-delusion, and old vs. young guys. (If you don't want to read the whole post, skip to where I say "I'd even go further and say that game itself is another of these issues laden with traps.")

Apologies for the tangent and adding further 'cynicism' to your thread, ActaNonVerba! You and some of the other posters here have made solid, positive points — thank you for creating this thread and hopefully others will continue to contribute positive angles to counterbalance the necessary 'negative' ones.

Post: #31

(09-05-2018 07:51 PM)a beer is enough Wrote:  I think what has happened is that the rise of the social media and digital age has changed the way status and attractiveness of a man is presented to women. The mass cold-approach might have worked twenty years ago before the days of social media and the pickup movement was based on that. In its early years, things like approaching women at bars and chatting with them actually worked.

What has happened now is that with dating apps and social media, women prefer guys who are good at making themselves appear attractive in photos and showcase their fantasy than tell them about it. As women have become more focused on looks than they were in the past and more status conscious, certain kinds of men who have caught on and fulfilled that niche have been the ones who are regularly getting hot girls.

I am not going to discount cold approach entirely, at times it can net good results, but I think what has become key for men now is to make themselves appear attractive in photos and socially desired in the social media age. The guys with high quality pics of them doing awesome things, having a quality social life and thousands of friends and followers are the ones women are genuinely curious about.

The way I think of it, just like we as a society went from going to corner stores and supermarkets to shopping online at Amazon, women have gone from shopping for guys at bars to shopping for them online.

Most of the gurus and experts out there have not picked up on this which has left a lot of men who generally listen to their advice lonely and frustrated.

The social media dislike is killing guys in the current age because it is like they are trying to fight against the change.

In a lot of cases, I try to limit the amount of advice I take from older guys because so many of them are just so out of touch with the modern age. It comes with old age for guys to be set in their ways and become more stubborn as opposed to adjusting to the given times. Then add to that there is envy among some older men who see younger men in their prime living out some of their youth which makes the intentions not as good when giving these young men advice.

I think we are in the dark ages right now because guys aren't able to catch up with the rapid change as it is happening.

Banning Vinny didn't help. He pioneered Instagram game a few years back and shared his formula on here. It got me and many guys I know personally plenty of easy (or at least easier) lays.

Social media is not my favorite thing either, but we are men; we have to accept reality as it is, not as some imagined ideal.

Post: #32

(09-06-2018 05:12 PM)DonnyGately Wrote:  Looks don't matter more than they used to. Girls are absolutely sluttier, they matter less. They crave experiences, newness, taboo sex, a FWB who's not clingy. I've literally never been asked for my IG. Hell, 'dad bods' are even a thing for girls now. Of course, being fitter is a generic advantage, sure, but lotsa girls are very suspicious of guys that are 'too good looking' or 'too fit,' figuring them to be narcissistic, or gay, just gonna fuck and run, treat them like shit, etc.

IMHO, restart texts worked as well as they ever did. If the girl wasn't interested in you before, she won't be now. Same as it ever was.

You know what matters more than ever? Confidence. In my top 5 traits girls are looking for that's #1, 2, and 4.

Pro tip: the hotter/younger the girl, the more she lacks confidence. Even if she puts up a bitch shield at first.

It would be fair to note for the thread that you (exclusively?) game on Seeking Arrangement. Changes the context of your opinion quite a bit.

(09-06-2018 07:19 PM)Perspicacity Wrote:  On the topic of what beer mentioned earlier in this thread: I've been considering for a while now starting a blackpill game forum (on cordial terms with RVF) for young guys. Maybe even only allow open registration for under-27 guys, with guys over 27 being confirmed in on a case-by-case basis. (E.g. IIRC corsega is over 26, but keeps it real as fuck without the condescension, lame wannabe Big Baller Trolling, value-tapping, and out-of-touchness that a lot of the older guys have.)

Maybe even go more specific and make it for guys who are between 21 and 26, or who are under 21 if they are not at school/college (maybe allow community college). Finding themselves once more at the bottom of the totem pole, but of 'adult society', early-20's guys have unique challenges and circumstances they tend to face, shared by neither younger guys at school/college, nor guys 27 and above.

Call it the 'Millennial/X borderkids social media support group' and have corsega as our group counselor / drill sergeant. Confess when we step on the scales and don't meet our follower gain targets for the week, lol.

The difficulty is balancing blackpill and game.

There's no end to good material (old and new) on classical, old-school game. But its applicability nowadays in much of the Anglosphere is questionable.

On the other hand, while many of the MGTOW, Lookism guys are extremely insightful, wickedly funny, and are picking up on stuff and developing theory nobody else is talking about -- fundamentally, those forums are corrosive and poisonous.

Not sure it's possible to balance that kind of brutal black hole-level blackpill with a focus on maximising results given the hand we've been dealt -- past a certain point, truth-seeking and theory-crafting are probably incompatible with the upper levels of game.

Although given what corsega says about FB groups being the way of the future, maybe I'm already old and out-of-touch myself and need to get with the times!

Appreciate the shoutouts. I am in a "Looksmaxing" Facebook group that is new and quite good, so far, with none of the toxic incel trappings. I will PM you details.

Post: #33

I have seen some observations. Couple of my recent cold approaches, they all ask for my instagram or Snapchat account when I try to number closed them but I don’t give them any of my accounts. I got all of their number however. One of my coworker ask me for my full name and she instantly followed me on Instagram when I told her my name. All these girls ranging from 18-20. I strongly believe it is a vetting program mentioned by other members. It’s like looking at the reviews of the product(you) before buying said product(you)

Post: #34

Kaotic, I see where you are coming from with most of your post and it is well-meaning.

I've been that guy before who used to go out a ton, cold approach en-masse and at times it did work. Unfortunately, time and time again, I found that I was missing out on good looking girls out there by doing so. Most of the hottest girls or good looking girls in general were heading out with a group and often it was a mix of guys and girls. Even when I did try to game them, it resulted in nothing.

Despite my failures, I am glad to have learned cold approaching because it can be fun and freeing at times. The other thing I learned was that it was very low effort and ineffective when I wanted girls above a 7. I think cold approach could yield a guy sex with a lot of average girls who are social outcasts but to get higher quality, you just need more tools in your arsenal.

My fortunes actually turned when I had cool roommates, was being invited to fun parties and had an in with the right crowd. When girls saw some of the cool stuff I was doing and saw me living an awesome life through social media and dating apps, they wanted to be a part of that and a lot of these girls were pretty good looking. The only LTR I ever had who was one of the best looking girls I had been with came from social circle and mutual friends.

As for making this personal.

I am not giving up my pursuit of a bartending gig, think I made that very clear on other threads both of us post on. The idea that you can burn out or overwork yourself in your 20s is insane, you can more than handle 2 jobs in your 20s if you have the typical work week. Wasted weekends that consist of reading, "hobbies" and "relaxing" are for the mediocre. We can agree to disagree here but I think I have made it clear I am not changing my lifestyle goal and pursuits because of your attempt at trying to be a life coach, nothing personal.

Bilzerian lives an awesome life in my eyes and though it takes a lot of money to live that life, most of us would trade places with him any day. I admire the life he lives and through some effort, hustle and luck on my end, look to live something similar myself many years from now. Nothing wrong with aspiring to have the highest degree of success in the game that involves having a lot of hot women in your life, I still don't see the hatred dudes have for the man even though not all of what he presents is real.

Then again, life experience has taught me that most of the game is not real and this whole inner alpha male almost always loses to the socially well connected guy that manages to get multiple hot girls to go out with him on the weekends.

Post: #35

(09-06-2018 11:20 PM)a beer is enough Wrote:  I am not giving up my pursuit of a bartending gig, think I made that very clear on other threads both of us post on. The idea that you can burn out or overwork yourself in your 20s is insane, if you're not willing to work more than the typical 40 hr work week whether it is at one job or two jobs, you're not going to make it. Wasted weekends filled with reading and "relaxing" are for the mediocre.

Bartending isn't going to get you ahead in life though. It'll help you learn skills, sure. It'll increase your chances to talk to women. The reality is a lot different than the perception though. Don't let that stop you, but it's not a be all, end all. It's a job like any other, but it can be fun too.

I personally would rather invest my time creating value for myself as opposed to tending bar with the hopes that it'll get me laid more.

(09-06-2018 11:20 PM)a beer is enough Wrote:  Bilzerian lives an awesome life in my eyes and though it takes a lot of money to live that life, most of us would trade places with him any day. I admire the life he lives and through some effort, hustle and luck on my end, look to live something similar myself many years from now. Nothing wrong with aspiring to have the highest degree of success in the game that involves having a lot of hot women in your life, I still don't see the hatred dudes have for the man even though not all of what he presents is real.

There's nothing wrong with chasing paper.

Dan lives a lifestyle of wealth and abundance. People knock him for being a trust fund kid, and because his dad is a shady fuck. One of my best friends growing up had the same situation as Dan, and I can tell you this: not all that glitters is gold. Be careful what you wish for. The pursuit is often a lot more fulfilling than the goal.

(09-06-2018 11:20 PM)a beer is enough Wrote:  Then again, life experience has taught me that most of the game is not real and this whole inner alpha male almost always loses to the socially well connected guy that manages to get multiple hot girls to go out with him on the weekends.

I hate the concept of "Alpha". The socially well connected guy is more likely to be game aware. Part of "game" is stacking the deck in your favor in all of life's situations. Whether that's a solid social circle as a DHV, or investing your 20s in building a business for yourself. You can deny that game is real, but you can't deny the reality that game aware men are the ones fucking the top shelf broads.

Post: #36

I was just offering my input on this thread and it seems like Kaotic, unintentionally, made it personal. Unlike the other threads, I won't make this one about me.

The one key point I do want to make is that we have become real dishonest with ourselves as men. Most of us cannot even get ourselves to admit that we want to fuck lots of attractive women. All too often it is the "more to life than pussy" crowd or some guy dissing the sexually active lifestyle in a passive-aggressive way. I am not saying all men need to chasing random women and racking up that lay count but if you are going to post on a game forum or even chat about it, at least be genuine. The dishonesty with ourselves that some of us have just becomes a thorn in discussions that can lead to creative ideas.

An example of this is the discussion we have about hobbies and lifestyle.

So many guys will bring in the idea of not doing a hobby or pursuing a lifestyle for women and doing it for yourself. The reality is that your hobbies and lifestyle attract certain people into your life that determine your value as a man. That nerdy hobby of board games is not going to attract the kinds of people you want in your life if your aim is to get hot girls. Hobbies and lifestyle lead to social circle which has an impact on how attractive you're perceived as. Even a bartender at a poorly perceived bar is SOL.

We need to push men who do want to life that top 20% guy lifestyle into the direction of the right hobbies which will, directly or indirectly, help them get there. If you tell guys to just be true to themselves and not pursue hobbies for the people and women, you'll have guys joining board game groups and crying about how it doesn't help them get women.

Whether it is Dan Bilzerian, some bartender at a nightclub or some handsome photographer who puts high quality photos of himself on dating apps; I admire men who at least have the balls to say to themselves that they want attractive women in their lives and pursue that goal instead of acting self-righteous to protect their ego.

/rant

Post: #37

This is a good thread, I hope a beer is enough doesn't shit all over it.

Odds are he will though.

Post: #38

(09-06-2018 11:56 PM)Rhyme or Reason Wrote:  This is a good thread, I hope a beer is enough doesn't shit all over it.

Odds are he will though.

You seem to be angry at me for old posts and I am not trying to make this thread personal. No need to steer it in the direction of drama, if you have an axe to grind, PM me and lets talk about it there. Based on reactions to my first comment on here, people don't seem to think I am shitting on it so lets let the relevant discussion go on.

Post: #39

(09-06-2018 11:57 PM)a beer is enough Wrote:  

(09-06-2018 11:56 PM)Rhyme or Reason Wrote:  This is a good thread, I hope a beer is enough doesn't shit all over it.

Odds are he will though.

You seem to be angry at me for old posts and I am not trying to make this thread personal. No need to steer it in the direction of drama, if you have an axe to grind, PM me and lets talk about it there. Based on reactions to my first comment on here, people don't seem to think I am shitting on it so lets let the relevant discussion go on.

I think your posts are spot on.

Guys don't want to admit that it's all about pussy.

Read The Red Queen.

Everything we do is for sex.

"B..b-ut I do it for me!"

No you don't. You do it for status, which in turn increases the ability to leave your semen in lots of vaginas, which in turn increases your ability to do the one thing your genes want you to do - reproduce themselves.

Post: #40

(09-06-2018 04:31 PM)ManX Wrote:  Op it says your Twitter account has been suspended, been a naughty boy?

I've been very naughty . The story is a little bit less interesting I'm afraid. I changed my username to a better one and I haven't been on the forum for a while. I'm going to change it right now.

Post: #41

This is a good thread, something that needs to be discussed.

By far the biggest change I've seen even just in the last 5 years is that nightlife (where I live, Sydney, at least) is useless for meeting girls.

It's always been a challenge in Sydney but ever since Tinder etc. really took off, and we have Instagram getting used more; now women just use the clubs for their validation.

So I've adapted by doing a lot of daygame. It turns out to be a lot more fun and emotionally engaging than night game ever was. Some of the skills port across but there are some special skills required, and also, you need different openers and vibe obviously.

Most guys I know adapted by going 100% online. But I don't like online because the girls use filters heavily and there's not many good looking girls on there.

Post: #42

I forgot which thread it was but the old timers recall how back in the day they had to collect a chick's number on a small piece of paper and call her on a landline phone later and that we have it all good.

Is it still good?
Maybe we just need to diversify our game and then hone in on what works best for ourselves.

Post: #43

(09-07-2018 05:07 AM)JekyllAndHyde Wrote:  Maybe we just need to diversify our game and then hone in on what works best for ourselves.

Yeah that is great advice to anyone in the game, really.

Some guys have a hot body or are really tall >>> online / tinder will kill it

Normal (or sub par) physicality >>> day game

In a city that somehow still has decent nightlife >>> night game

Even in each of these, there's some niches that can be mined.

Post: #44

Observations:

The main theme I noticed is that women's idea of themselves has greatly improved (read: entitled and demanding).

They no longer think they're the shit, they know they are the shit.

The stock market effect of social media has clarified everyone's worth and removed any element of mystery from men, for the most part.

This is covered in detail by previous posters.

The causes are not social media. The causes are men.

Women set the market price and we have accepted that. We provide the liquidity to drive up the price of pussy, driven by thirst.

Guys are giving so much, more than ever, just to hear a girl fart through a walkie talkie. It becomes hard when guys are spoiling girls to such a ridiculous extent without the girls warranting it. It's literally a response and pedestalization of their looks.

Women now have status. This is one of the main changes, thanks to social media. This false notion of status by virtue of being hot has made them demanding.

The collective thirst of men has driven the price of pussy up. The girls have become self-aware and raised the barriers of entry to their pussy. I am talking the ones we aim for, the 8s and above. I spend a lot of time around girls who are hot and desired, 1000s of IG followers and on the 'scene'. I hear them talk about these guys all the time and ask myself or my mates for our opinion. They question me on why I don't adhere to this bullshit.

I can pull off lays and keep girls around for a certain amount of time but the sheer pressure they put on me to devote time/money/effort to keep them around is ridiculous. As per my thread from last week, the beta receptive girls are increasing as a response to this trend.

The secret society used to be guys that 'get it'. Now it's guys that 'get it and can provide it'. Discretion is slowly going out of the window with social media and girls are paranoid about this that they only pick the best of the best (socially approved) partners. If you're gonna find out, then you better know it was with the top of the food chain.

Discretion is so scarce that it's more important than ever; it's a prerequisite to getting laid. These hotties are fucking multiple guys and manage to keep that shit on the down low, really well for a short period of time before pressuring the guys in to a relationship. Even then, the guys wag their tails like dogs to even get the chance to wife them up. You can be discreet but she will decide for how long that lasts, depending on the calibre of the guy she is fucking.

This is why I talk about letting them fill in the gaps. The less you say, the more trusted you are, the better.

They assume you're one of these guys and you set yourself apart by sprinkling cheekyness and by challenging them on this but even that has it's expiry date due to the pressure mentioned above.

The pie of guys getting some has also decreased. The rules have changed. Financial security is key. It's an arms race to tie down the top guys.

It's a good/bad thing. Good because competition is less (from top men), especially if you're in this %. It's bad because the pool is drying up and the quality of fish is decreasing. Women know they can get away with minimum effort past their aesthetic maintenance.

Women have become more materialistic as such. It's not a good or bad thing, it just is. This is why you rarely find 8s being single, they have guys queuing 3 blocks down just to sniff her seat after she gets up.

So yes, it's our fault for setting the bar so high and spoiling these bishes who don't deserve it past being the lucky sperm that got good genetics. For pedestalizing looks over behaviour (over a long enough timescale).

Another positive is that it's become easier for 35 year olds to get their 20-25 year old by playing this game. You can find a woman of this age who is willing to marry you because they are more aware of the game and that they want resources. Your resources. It just comes with terms and conditions.

This is why the sharpest guys will kill it. They are in a better predictive capacity and able to set the rules of negotiation. Simply by being around women like this 24/7, you build the muscle to handle this shit too. You're on their radar which further propels you in to this world.

The thirst is real.

Example time, based off my daily and weekly conversation with hotties;

My friends sister (beautiful, 8), is 24 and she works overseas in one of the richest cities in the world (French riviera). She calls him last night and he puts her on loud-speaker to listen to her talk her shit about guys, while we're chopping up veggies and making dinner.

33 year old guy is flying over to her from Italy, every weekend and renting out chateaus, penthouses, going to wine farms, helicopter trips, chartering yachts and the list goes on. 2 months in (!). The sheer amount of time this guy has put in is what we would usually put in over a year. This guy has crammed this into 2 months.

Quality quotes from her:

"I am finally being treated as I should"
"He's moving mountains to see me, he is crazy"
"He baked me a cake (??)"

She also told the story of some old lady who saw them at a fancy restaurant and told him "consider yourself lucky with a woman like this".
Cheers lady.

My first thought, listening to her on the phone, was "thanks bro, you're just fucking up the rest of these women for us". What a bro.

He's providing the liquidity for the obscene market price that it's the normal price now.

For the poker players, you can't limp in anymore, your blinds are getting raised so high that you can't get a flop for cheap.

As for these girls, they can't go from a Rolls Royce to a Prius, their standards are set now.

They're all jumping gleefully, comparing all these guys and putting themselves on these guys radar.

As for her, she doesn't find him attractive and she doesn't really care for him but he showers her with gifts and this basically buys him more 'lives' like a video game. This is to paraphrase what she said.

He is buying himself more chances at locking this pussy down through this behaviour. She is becoming more beta receptive because this is what she is getting used to.

I told her, "good luck getting rid of him, when you get bored".

She says "I know and he wants to marry me, 2 months in".



You can refer to my posts in the Hoes of Instagram thread but to summarize, EVERY 8+ girl I know (looks and personality) have set up high net-worth booby traps and are pretty much running their version of The Bachelor.

It doesn't seem efficient, to me, to even go down this route, in my mid 20s. I leverage what I can (social circle/looks/game) and this is all I am willing to do right now, until pussy becomes scarce (if ever).

Hell, I am forced to go for 18-23 year olds because half of them haven't woken up to this fact yet. The other half is full on tuned in.

I am at a club (probably one of the oldest people there), sitting in the VIP area and I head to the bar. I nod at these two girls next to me who were checking me out (probably because of where I was sitting, not because of my looks) and give them a "sup, you're cute, come talk to me later on. I am sitting there with my friends".

They come over, one has a drink and the other one doesn't.
I say to girl A "Where's your drink?"
Girl B: "Aren't you going to buy her one?"
me: "Do I look like an ATM?"
B: "Yes"
me: "What kind"
B: "A really rich one" (this was a really great line, in fairness. Not her first rodeo)
me: "ha, I'll meet you at the bar"

They go wait at the bar. I get there and notice this blonde number wearing just a corset (looked like a bra to me honestly) and I congratulate her on her wedding. I tell her it's obvious she is on a hen party.

I nailed it but she clarifies that she's a dancer and Bulgarian. I drop some Bulgarian. She demands we have a tequila shot as she is impressed. Fine.

I down the tequila and immediately look at these two gold-diggers at the bar (still waiting expectantly for the sweet nectar of free drinks), looking at me bemused. Flash a wink and a nod. Take this girl to the table.

She was also 23. Day and night between these girls.

The two are in on the game. The other one probably is too but she didn't piece it together.

The one saw me at the VIP prior. The other didn't and I connected and then took her.

I say this story because it's kind of my MO now, women are sharks and so eager to put you in to the provider category. They want to fucking date you, have your kids, hold you down as soon as they catch a glimpse of opulence, provided you look cool, fun and aren't a gremlin.

If girls even sniff you got some money or status, they come out with the full 10 yards of gold-diggery and they're armed to the teeth like John Rambo.

It took them 5 minutes before some other guy was buying them drinks. Thanks guy, you reinforced the problem again.

Hell, this girl was buying me tequila so my response was to take her to the car and chop a line.

It's always quid pro quo now because they got another 10 guys lined up.

Know when to give and take.


The theme is indeed this, women have a crazy high idea of themselves.

Well, I think that's also due to the fact that we no longer give credit to natural beauty. It's become such a rarity that people have forgotten about it. A girl can be gorgeous and I won't even be able to tell past the 2kg of makeup caked on her face.

The standards of what is BEAUTIFUL have been reduced to AVERAGE girls being able to look 'hot'.

Tinder did this. Reality TV did this. Instagram filters did this.

10 years ago, you would take a photo and pray to god you came out looking decent. Now they take 17 pictures, choose the best one, edit it and still go on.

Society now, places less on natural beauty and more on fake beauty because fake is accessible. Any girl can be 'hot'. Any girl can fake it.

The barriers of entry to being a hot girl have been reduced because we allow 6s to feel hot and are fine with shitloads of makeup, editing and plastic surgery to let them look hotter.

The 8s permit it because it means that the 6s are taking care of so many guys that the 8s can focus on the elite men. It's an artificial supply of hotness. It dilutes the pool of hot women.

More girls feel hot. More guys fall for this and drive the price of pussy up. Easier to be viewed as a hot girl today than ever before. Their egos are boosted and become more picky. Guys pick up on this and resort to rewarding this shit hoping they get some tail.

Then you got guys with game and on this level, absolutely killing it.

I meet 4-5 new girls weekly, at a trot. I am not killing it, I am just taking it easy because anything past that fucks up my life balance. I can't be coming home on a Thursday at 2:30AM anymore.

These girls aren't going anywhere and you can still meet, funnel, bang. This is just from random conversations during the day and IF I head to a bar, I'll chat up a few girls but I no longer have the inclination to cold approach like a rabid dog. You figure out which girls respond to this and which ones are out with their friends before their boyfriends or fuckbuddies collect them and bang their brains out.

You acknowledge this because you know you got a girl like this as well, you let her go out and other guys pump her buying temp before she comes to you to take care of her sexual urges. She comes and goes for a few months until she hits you with that pressure because some other guy is trying to wife her up and doesn't even know she's sitting on your face while she reads his messages to you.

The rulebook has changed because guys who have no game cannot emotionally stimulate women so they give them the lifestyle and tools to put themselves out there and have others emotionally stimulate them instead. Then they make themselves available for sex.

As long as guys do that, then the girls are satisfied because they have outsourced their emotional needs to other avenues and use the guys as drilling machines for when they are needed.

You might argue this was always the case and it was but the frequency of it is what's accelerated this and made this the norm, not the exception now. We are meeting more people than ever before and this is why game is still valid because you're making a solid impression.

Same triggers, different methods.

Some shit remains the same but some shit has changed because women now think they are more special than ever despite being copy/paste of each other. It's massively ironic and I find myself just nodding at their shit.

Then you meet a woman who actually is special and can connect and it's amazing and the problem with this is that you've auto-pedestalized her by virtue of being different. Sometimes I will conflate being different with being special and this is problematic for me too because usually it's a matter of time before they revert to the mean and end up being another copy/paste woman.

Trust women to be women.

If you figure out the chinks in their armour, it's pretty easy but can be morally conflicting.

You feel as if you're rewarding this shitty behaviour but you gotta eat too, you know?

Post: #45

Reading through this thread, and living in the world around me has made something abundantly clear to me: there is no fixing the West. If you’re familiar with Evola, we are the men among the ruins. Pretty soon you’re going to have to do steroids just to not be considered scrawny. In some places this is probably already the case. We’re getting to a place in society where it’s going to be rich roided up 10/10 looking men with impeccable game and social status fighting with each other to have landwhales with 500+ notch counts, HPV, and personalities even more insufferable than we’re currently dealing with. The West is a sinking ship. The best case scenario is that it all collapses under the weight of the sheer degeneracy, the emptiness, and a socity’s rules being dictated by dumb whores who have been brainwashed by a group of rootless cosmopolitan elites. Don’t get me wrong, game may not get this bad within our lifetime, but it is headed in this direction. I think our only hope for a sane society is that all this collapse under its own weight before technology enables the elites to create a literal hell cyberpunk world. Imagine the UK but instead of your online activity being monitored it’s your thoughts and as soon as you think something wrong you get straffed by a wrongthink prevention drone.

Post: #46

(09-07-2018 06:09 AM)don_quixote Wrote:  

(09-07-2018 05:07 AM)JekyllAndHyde Wrote:  Maybe we just need to diversify our game and then hone in on what works best for ourselves.

Yeah that is great advice to anyone in the game, really.

Some guys have a hot body or are really tall >>> online / tinder will kill it

Normal (or sub par) physicality >>> day game

In a city that somehow still has decent nightlife >>> night game

Even in each of these, there's some niches that can be mined.

I think is exactly what should be talked about. I noticed a lot of people are being disappointed with the things being the way they are. But those who are suffering from it should adapt and overcome. We should work together, explore all the options and possibilities and discover what works best. I don't think things became harder necessarily, things have shifted (although opinions might heavily differ when it comes to this). Thus I created this thread. The input so far has been more insightful, useful and revealing than I'd expected it to be. Keep up the good work. Especially a big shout out to Noir.

Post: #47

(09-07-2018 06:12 AM)Noir Wrote:  Observations:

The main theme I noticed is that women's idea of themselves has greatly improved (read: entitled and demanding).

They no longer think they're the shit, they know they are the shit.

The stock market effect of social media has clarified everyone's worth and removed any element of mystery from men, for the most part.

This is covered in detail by previous posters.

The causes are not social media. The causes are men.

Women set the market price and we have accepted that. We provide the liquidity to drive up the price of pussy, driven by thirst.

Guys are giving so much, more than ever, just to hear a girl fart through a walkie talkie. It becomes hard when guys are spoiling girls to such a ridiculous extent without the girls warranting it. It's literally a response and pedestalization of their looks.

Women now have status. This is one of the main changes, thanks to social media. This false notion of status by virtue of being hot has made them demanding.

The collective thirst of men has driven the price of pussy up. The girls have become self-aware and raised the barriers of entry to their pussy. I am talking the ones we aim for, the 8s and above. I spend a lot of time around girls who are hot and desired, 1000s of IG followers and on the 'scene'. I hear them talk about these guys all the time and ask myself or my mates for our opinion. They question me on why I don't adhere to this bullshit.

I can pull off lays and keep girls around for a certain amount of time but the sheer pressure they put on me to devote time/money/effort to keep them around is ridiculous. As per my thread from last week, the beta receptive girls are increasing as a response to this trend.

The secret society used to be guys that 'get it'. Now it's guys that 'get it and can provide it'. Discretion is slowly going out of the window with social media and girls are paranoid about this that they only pick the best of the best (socially approved) partners. If you're gonna find out, then you better know it was with the top of the food chain.

Discretion is so scarce that it's more important than ever; it's a prerequisite to getting laid. These hotties are fucking multiple guys and manage to keep that shit on the down low, really well for a short period of time before pressuring the guys in to a relationship. Even then, the guys wag their tails like dogs to even get the chance to wife them up. You can be discreet but she will decide for how long that lasts, depending on the calibre of the guy she is fucking.

This is why I talk about letting them fill in the gaps. The less you say, the more trusted you are, the better.

They assume you're one of these guys and you set yourself apart by sprinkling cheekyness and by challenging them on this but even that has it's expiry date due to the pressure mentioned above.

The pie of guys getting some has also decreased. The rules have changed. Financial security is key. It's an arms race to tie down the top guys.

It's a good/bad thing. Good because competition is less (from top men), especially if you're in this %. It's bad because the pool is drying up and the quality of fish is decreasing. Women know they can get away with minimum effort past their aesthetic maintenance.

Women have become more materialistic as such. It's not a good or bad thing, it just is. This is why you rarely find 8s being single, they have guys queuing 3 blocks down just to sniff her seat after she gets up.

So yes, it's our fault for setting the bar so high and spoiling these bishes who don't deserve it past being the lucky sperm that got good genetics. For pedestalizing looks over behaviour (over a long enough timescale).

Another positive is that it's become easier for 35 year olds to get their 20-25 year old by playing this game. You can find a woman of this age who is willing to marry you because they are more aware of the game and that they want resources. Your resources. It just comes with terms and conditions.

This is why the sharpest guys will kill it. They are in a better predictive capacity and able to set the rules of negotiation. Simply by being around women like this 24/7, you build the muscle to handle this shit too. You're on their radar which further propels you in to this world.

The thirst is real.

Example time, based off my daily and weekly conversation with hotties;

My friends sister (beautiful, 8), is 24 and she works overseas in one of the richest cities in the world (French riviera). She calls him last night and he puts her on loud-speaker to listen to her talk her shit about guys, while we're chopping up veggies and making dinner.

33 year old guy is flying over to her from Italy, every weekend and renting out chateaus, penthouses, going to wine farms, helicopter trips, chartering yachts and the list goes on. 2 months in (!). The sheer amount of time this guy has put in is what we would usually put in over a year. This guy has crammed this into 2 months.

Quality quotes from her:

"I am finally being treated as I should"
"He's moving mountains to see me, he is crazy"
"He baked me a cake (??)"

She also told the story of some old lady who saw them at a fancy restaurant and told him "consider yourself lucky with a woman like this".
Cheers lady.

My first thought, listening to her on the phone, was "thanks bro, you're just fucking up the rest of these women for us". What a bro.

He's providing the liquidity for the obscene market price that it's the normal price now.

For the poker players, you can't limp in anymore, your blinds are getting raised so high that you can't get a flop for cheap.

As for these girls, they can't go from a Rolls Royce to a Prius, their standards are set now.

They're all jumping gleefully, comparing all these guys and putting themselves on these guys radar.

As for her, she doesn't find him attractive and she doesn't really care for him but he showers her with gifts and this basically buys him more 'lives' like a video game. This is to paraphrase what she said.

He is buying himself more chances at locking this pussy down through this behaviour. She is becoming more beta receptive because this is what she is getting used to.

I told her, "good luck getting rid of him, when you get bored".

She says "I know and he wants to marry me, 2 months in".



You can refer to my posts in the Hoes of Instagram thread but to summarize, EVERY 8+ girl I know (looks and personality) have set up high net-worth booby traps and are pretty much running their version of The Bachelor.

It doesn't seem efficient, to me, to even go down this route, in my mid 20s. I leverage what I can (social circle/looks/game) and this is all I am willing to do right now, until pussy becomes scarce (if ever).

Hell, I am forced to go for 18-23 year olds because half of them haven't woken up to this fact yet. The other half is full on tuned in.

I am at a club (probably one of the oldest people there), sitting in the VIP area and I head to the bar. I nod at these two girls next to me who were checking me out (probably because of where I was sitting, not because of my looks) and give them a "sup, you're cute, come talk to me later on. I am sitting there with my friends".

They come over, one has a drink and the other one doesn't.
I say to girl A "Where's your drink?"
Girl B: "Aren't you going to buy her one?"
me: "Do I look like an ATM?"
B: "Yes"
me: "What kind"
B: "A really rich one" (this was a really great line, in fairness. Not her first rodeo)
me: "ha, I'll meet you at the bar"

They go wait at the bar. I get there and notice this blonde number wearing just a corset (looked like a bra to me honestly) and I congratulate her on her wedding. I tell her it's obvious she is on a hen party.

I nailed it but she clarifies that she's a dancer and Bulgarian. I drop some Bulgarian. She demands we have a tequila shot as she is impressed. Fine.

I down the tequila and immediately look at these two gold-diggers at the bar (still waiting expectantly for the sweet nectar of free drinks), looking at me bemused. Flash a wink and a nod. Take this girl to the table.

She was also 23. Day and night between these girls.

The two are in on the game. The other one probably is too but she didn't piece it together.

The one saw me at the VIP prior. The other didn't and I connected and then took her.

I say this story because it's kind of my MO now, women are sharks and so eager to put you in to the provider category. They want to fucking date you, have your kids, hold you down as soon as they catch a glimpse of opulence, provided you look cool, fun and aren't a gremlin.

If girls even sniff you got some money or status, they come out with the full 10 yards of gold-diggery and they're armed to the teeth like John Rambo.

It took them 5 minutes before some other guy was buying them drinks. Thanks guy, you reinforced the problem again.

Hell, this girl was buying me tequila so my response was to take her to the car and chop a line.

It's always quid pro quo now because they got another 10 guys lined up.

Know when to give and take.


The theme is indeed this, women have a crazy high idea of themselves.

Well, I think that's also due to the fact that we no longer give credit to natural beauty. It's become such a rarity that people have forgotten about it. A girl can be gorgeous and I won't even be able to tell past the 2kg of makeup caked on her face.

The standards of what is BEAUTIFUL have been reduced to AVERAGE girls being able to look 'hot'.

Tinder did this. Reality TV did this. Instagram filters did this.

10 years ago, you would take a photo and pray to god you came out looking decent. Now they take 17 pictures, choose the best one, edit it and still go on.

Society now, places less on natural beauty and more on fake beauty because fake is accessible. Any girl can be 'hot'. Any girl can fake it.

The barriers of entry to being a hot girl have been reduced because we allow 6s to feel hot and are fine with shitloads of makeup, editing and plastic surgery to let them look hotter.

The 8s permit it because it means that the 6s are taking care of so many guys that the 8s can focus on the elite men. It's an artificial supply of hotness. It dilutes the pool of hot women.

More girls feel hot. More guys fall for this and drive the price of pussy up. Easier to be viewed as a hot girl today than ever before. Their egos are boosted and become more picky. Guys pick up on this and resort to rewarding this shit hoping they get some tail.

Then you got guys with game and on this level, absolutely killing it.

I meet 4-5 new girls weekly, at a trot. I am not killing it, I am just taking it easy because anything past that fucks up my life balance. I can't be coming home on a Thursday at 2:30AM anymore.

These girls aren't going anywhere and you can still meet, funnel, bang. This is just from random conversations during the day and IF I head to a bar, I'll chat up a few girls but I no longer have the inclination to cold approach like a rabid dog. You figure out which girls respond to this and which ones are out with their friends before their boyfriends or fuckbuddies collect them and bang their brains out.

You acknowledge this because you know you got a girl like this as well, you let her go out and other guys pump her buying temp before she comes to you to take care of her sexual urges. She comes and goes for a few months until she hits you with that pressure because some other guy is trying to wife her up and doesn't even know she's sitting on your face while she reads his messages to you.

The rulebook has changed because guys who have no game cannot emotionally stimulate women so they give them the lifestyle and tools to put themselves out there and have others emotionally stimulate them instead. Then they make themselves available for sex.

As long as guys do that, then the girls are satisfied because they have outsourced their emotional needs to other avenues and use the guys as drilling machines for when they are needed.

You might argue this was always the case and it was but the frequency of it is what's accelerated this and made this the norm, not the exception now. We are meeting more people than ever before and this is why game is still valid because you're making a solid impression.

Same triggers, different methods.

Some shit remains the same but some shit has changed because women now think they are more special than ever despite being copy/paste of each other. It's massively ironic and I find myself just nodding at their shit.

Then you meet a woman who actually is special and can connect and it's amazing and the problem with this is that you've auto-pedestalized her by virtue of being different. Sometimes I will conflate being different with being special and this is problematic for me too because usually it's a matter of time before they revert to the mean and end up being another copy/paste woman.

Trust women to be women.

If you figure out the chinks in their armour, it's pretty easy but can be morally conflicting.

You feel as if you're rewarding this shitty behaviour but you gotta eat too, you know?

GOLD IN BOLD!
As always thanks Noir!

Post: #48

(09-06-2018 11:57 PM)a beer is enough Wrote:  

(09-06-2018 11:56 PM)Rhyme or Reason Wrote:  This is a good thread, I hope a beer is enough doesn't shit all over it.

Odds are he will though.

You seem to be angry at me for old posts and I am not trying to make this thread personal. No need to steer it in the direction of drama, if you have an axe to grind, PM me and lets talk about it there. Based on reactions to my first comment on here, people don't seem to think I am shitting on it so lets let the relevant discussion go on.

@beer: You my friend are thirsty! Your only goal in life is (in your own words) to fuck lots and lots of hot girls. Flash news, you won't!
I am waiting for a datasheet of being a bartender and landing 9s every night!

Post: #49

This thread started of well and then for some reason looks like the only change is the use of social media, it's NOT!
Girls will ask for your social media as a validation if you're not giving them anything else to stimulate their psyche.
How about you flip the script, you can say you don't have social media cause you're not like the rest of their beta orbiters mouthwatering on their photos.

As Noir states above, the thirst is sky high and THAT is a big change. Fight this, don't boost women's ego and validation.

Women have super high bitch shields, that is a change.

Women don't expect but actually demand you to validate yourself, that is a change. Flip this, have them validate themselves to be worthy of you.

Post: #50

@beer @corsega we're on a game forum, I already expect we're all in it for the pussy, noone is denying that.

Got nothing but love for you, and I'll admit yeah I was condescending and frustrated yesterday, it comes from a good place, and I'm working on that.

Here's a question, how much are you going to sacrifice just for chasing pussy? When does it become too much?

Dan is an elite category, chances of us guys being born with a baller father are slim to none. He did the best thing, maximize what he got which is awesome. A perfect example of dudes going too far are the 30K millionaires who live at home or a shitty apartment but drive a European import and drop bottles at the club.

But we're comparing apples to oranges from average joe's, even chad's on here, compared to Dan. It's just not a fair assessment of ones life and isn't healthy to compare your own life to theirs.

That's all I'm saying.

We all understand that building a great lifestyle WILL attract women (that's the "more to life than pussy" part").

Thing is if you don't have a solid foundation as in making paper, being healthy, having good game, then you won't be getting to that next level that you want to.

The foundations of game are mandatory, otherwise you're already behind the pack.

@Perspicacity

Quote:I.e. the period of time and number of places, in which a guy could get decent results just using what was between his ears, his mouthpiece, and basic body tuning — without resorting to trappings like travel/sex tourism/geoarbitrage, digital nomadism, social media, tinder, permanent body modifications, 'social circle game', 'lifestyle/hobby game' — was far narrower than is believed, and is a lot less than its outsize influence on the broader societal culture would make it seem.

I don't think it "was" narrower, I think it is "getting" narrower, while I think guys can still pull chicks with his tongue and body is still decent, it IS shrinking (Noir alludes to this, more on that later).

Quote:(Common story with subcultures — as with pyramid schemes, by the time you've heard about them, you've probably missed the boat. The carrying capacity of cutting-edge, influential subcultures is far smaller than latecomers think, so that the founders have already either moved on, closed themselves off, or feed off the unknowing newcomers.)

Instead what we have is a bunch of guys being lured in by that promise of just being able to use (more or less) the gift of gab to swoop mass fly girls, and then having the goalposts shifted on them further and further away from this 'pure game' towards the external trappings mentioned above, without any acknowledgement that the goalposts are being shifted or re-evaluation of whether the new goalposts make the ROI worthwhile.

I've never understood guys who follow PUA artist, I've never subscribed, bought a book, or even watched any videos.

It's either been solely from crashing and burning pre RVF or reading and applying things when I discovered RVF, to finally fine tuning and maximizing everything I possibly can.

I loathe those snake oil PUA's, they aren't doing any men any favors, but I'm not on the level of PUAhate.

Agreed, these sorts of guys never admit shit has changed and just sell you on bullshit.

Quote:"The difficulty is balancing blackpill and game."

My answer is, I don't think you can - time and time again I've seen guys jump into the MGTOW/Incels way of thinking and become so disillusioned and jaded with females that just give up as if there's no winning.

I meant think about it, just threads like the SA one, or Dubai Porta pottie ones are enough to make guys be sick and they can't even handle that. That's guys already aware of the forum and game.

Quote:On the other hand, while many of the MGTOW, Lookism guys are extremely insightful, wickedly funny, and are picking up on stuff and developing theory nobody else is talking about -- fundamentally, those forums are corrosive and poisonous.

While they may see more truths, you're absolutely right it becomes corrosive and poisonous.

Quote:Not sure it's possible to balance that kind of brutal black hole-level blackpill with a focus on maximising results given the hand we've been dealt -- past a certain point, truth-seeking and theory-crafting are probably incompatible with the upper levels of game.

I agree that I don't think there's balance here, black pill is scarily toxic and well.....a black hole.

We've seen guys fall into that trap, melt down, or go silent.


My biggest concern is newbies immediately jumping into black pill without even having any solid foundation on game, variables, and having a well rounded lifestyle.

While it might be a good idea to get guys on here to start earlier in their truth seeking I just think the majority of young men aren't ready or can't "handle the truth".

Men who have been burned, coming from a shitty upbringing, from a divorce, etc are going to the most open BUT vulnerable to this.


I just can't see a good balance of black pill and game, maybe you're right, maybe I'm old school, but however, I'm always open to new theories, interpretations, and ideas.

Like I said, a man has to improvise, adapt, and overcome.



@noir



Honestly, goddamn, you just nuked this thread in all the right ways.

I'm pretty much speechless and can't add anything here that you've described.

Men are at a fault for inflating a womans net worth, the problem is, men will keep doing this, game aware men are minority.

Until the day alot of men wake up and realize how we're dealing with women is bullshit and crash the SMV of women - until then the competition and women's ego will be high.

I don't see this changing anytime soon unless something dramatic happens like a world war or something that affects our survival.