Post: #26

How much time are you spending with them in total face to face in the flesh?

Post: #27

Sometimes, girls go out on dates just for the validation. Maybe they just broke up with their boyfriend, or their best friend recently got married. And they just want to feel wanted by some guy. So they'll go out on a date thinking that they'll make out with you, but nothing further. And you never really had a chance with them. Some warning signs with these girls are that they ask very few personal questions about you, and they take the initiative to set up the date. An extreme example is the Tinder trap date being talked about.

Post: #28

(08-25-2018 12:46 PM)understandbpd Wrote:  

(08-23-2018 04:54 PM)Cavorite Wrote:  My last five or so first dates resulted in making out, but then text silence when I try to arrange a second date. I even tried setting up second dates verbally during the first date and still no text reply.

This always happens occasionally, but now it’s basically the most likely outcome of a date. What is the cause/is there anything I can do about it?

Can you give more details, like:

the source of the girls was daygame, nightgame or tinder?

because nightgame girls are by far the flakiest, no matter your behaviour,
because they have too many guys.

also it is relevant their age

I'm 40. The girls are a mix of ages, and they all flake. I meet them through daygame and dating apps. I only just started approaching girls this summer, so I'm not great at it. I've been disappointed that my close rate from daygame is so low.

My looks are above average, but social skills are average at best.

I think I need to find a thread that breaks down a first date strategy. It seems like my thinking is wrong (casual first date during the week in order to set up a sex date on the weekend). I am trying to be aggressive by making out, but I guess I need to wait until logistics allow
me to bring her to my place.

Post: #29

I tend to do a lot of first dates over coffee or a quick drink, with almost no physical escalation other than maybe a few light touches when it’s relevant to the conversation. They get to see I’m interesting, socially calibrated, and aloof enough that I don’t seem to care about banging them while still obviously not a beta chode. I do tend to escalate verbally in the sense that I’m very open, sexually speaking. Then for the second date I invite them over for lunch or dinner at my place and usually get the bang with zero resistance, sometimes almost immediately after they walk in the door.

On the flip side I’ve had first dates where we had heavy makeouts or fooled around without actually fucking, and have had to backpedal afterwards because the girl freaked out about it.

Post: #30

(08-25-2018 04:55 PM)Cavorite Wrote:  I'm 40. The girls are a mix of ages, and they all flake. I meet them through daygame and dating apps. I only just started approaching girls this summer, so I'm not great at it. I've been disappointed that my close rate from daygame is so low.

My looks are above average, but social skills are average at best.

I think I need to find a thread that breaks down a first date strategy. It seems like my thinking is wrong (casual first date during the week in order to set up a sex date on the weekend). I am trying to be aggressive by making out, but I guess I need to wait until logistics allow
me to bring her to my place.

Let me re-phrase the previous question that you completely missed or ignored... how much time are you spending with them? 2 hours? 7 hours? ...texting/online doesn't count BTW.

I'm assuming you haven't spent enough time to create sexual tension because if you did, they'd be inviting you back to their place.

I'm also assuming that you're rushing things and they can taste your desperation/eagerness and want none of it.

Post: #31

(08-26-2018 01:41 AM)JackinMelbourne Wrote:  Let me re-phrase the previous question that you completely missed or ignored...

ignored

Post: #32

I think your missing the bigger picture that is, conventional dates are pretty shit ways of developing attraction and any kind of relationship you want.

I've generally found that any 'good move' by conventional dating standards -such as a kiss at the end of the date- really results in playing it too slow or just not getting anywhere. Attraction isn't enough and it's frustrating going on dates with girls you 'vibe' etc only to never hear back from them.

I've started to change my perspective on the whole thing. With smartphones and texting and all else, dates are simply too big a deal for most girls. If you can't sleep with them on the first date, for any reason, then you're already slotted into 'boyfriend' territory. It's then dependent on the girl and how motivated she is at that point of her life to wrangle a 'steady guy' into her life. For most girls under 25 any slither of commitment behaviour sends them running.

A kiss at the end of the date confirms your intention that this was a somewhat 'serious date' and it is a bit chodey when you think about it. Move faster and more directly and aim to be minimising the amount of time you spend with new girls outside of yours or her place. Once your sleeping together you generally have a lot more power over how things turn out.

Post: #33

(08-26-2018 05:32 AM)mr-ed209 Wrote:  For most girls under 25 any slither of commitment behaviour sends them running.

I doubt this is true in Ukraine, Russia, or Eastern Europe in general,
where a lot of girls are already married by the age of 22...

In which country do you have most experience?

(08-26-2018 05:32 AM)mr-ed209 Wrote:  A kiss at the end of the date confirms your intention that this was a somewhat 'serious date' and it is a bit chodey when you think about it. Move faster and more directly and aim to be minimising the amount of time you spend with new girls outside of yours or her place. Once your sleeping together you generally have a lot more power over how things turn out.

What are the top ways to propose getting to your place or to her place?

Post: #34

(08-26-2018 05:32 AM)mr-ed209 Wrote:  I've started to change my perspective on the whole thing. With smartphones and texting and all else, dates are simply too big a deal for most girls. If you can't sleep with them on the first date, for any reason, then you're already slotted into 'boyfriend' territory. It's then dependent on the girl and how motivated she is at that point of her life to wrangle a 'steady guy' into her life. For most girls under 25 any slither of commitment behaviour sends them running.

^ The only thing I'd change is "If you can't sleep with them on the first date, for any reason, then you're already slotted into forgotten territory."[/i]

(08-25-2018 04:55 PM)Cavorite Wrote:  I'm 40. The girls are a mix of ages, and they all flake. I meet them through daygame and dating apps. I only just started approaching girls this summer, so I'm not great at it. I've been disappointed that my close rate from daygame is so low.

My looks are above average, but social skills are average at best.

I think I need to find a thread that breaks down a first date strategy. It seems like my thinking is wrong (casual first date during the week in order to set up a sex date on the weekend). I am trying to be aggressive by making out, but I guess I need to wait until logistics allow
me to bring her to my place.

What youre looking for is right here Tuthmosis's New Recipe For First Date Bang

If your logistics are bad youre fighting an uphill battle.

Read the whole post but relevant excerpts

Quote:Step 4. Absolutely do not kiss her. Do not, I repeat, go for the make-out at the venue.
This is the counter-intuitive part. There will be a logical time where it seems like you should, and could, go for the escalating make-out. Ideally, this will be around the time you've finished off a slow-paced first round of drinks. If you've played your logistics correctly, you will have settled your tab (by not opening one in the first place) on the first round, so you're free to leave the venue at any point.

But don't kiss her. You should imply (physically) that you might be starting to want to, but "haven't decided yet." This means giving the subtle physical cues--like the ever-so-slightly lingering eye contact above--not some sort of overt act. She'll likely be giving you some of her own cues that she's down, but don't do it. Of course, don't avoid it pussy-like, like you're scared to do it, but like you're steadily being won you over. Keep in mind that you're being gregarious and touchy the whole time, not awkward and uncomfortable. This is very subtle physical communication, but being in that state-of-mind will help to convey this emotion.

At around the 60 to 90-minute mark, I say something like, "hey, let's do round two somewhere else." You may get some, "I have to work (or class) the next day" resistance, that's why it's important to do it on the early side, since this early in evening, it's still too early to raise this concern. She can't argue with you.

This--if I haven't already done so--is where I suggest that we go to my place, so I can "make her that drink" or whatever bachelor-pad bait I've used that night. What's more, "I live pretty close from here anyway." She knows that I'm going to try something, because I've done everything in my power to subtly suggest it, but she can reasonably expect that that's going to be merely making out. A little private make-out session probably sounds good (and safe) to her, so she's more-than-likely going to be down.

This is where not spending your make-out token plays a big part. She has iron-clad plausible deniability that all you're looking for is a private place to make out with her, that's all. Because nothing's happened so far, she feels a lot less committed about going over to your place than if you'd already made out and the next thing on the escalation hierarchy has to be sexual.

Because you've been charming and cool, you don't seem like a chump who can't put it down either. She wants to make out with you and recognizes this is her chance

Post: #35

Continued

Quote:Step 8. Escalate like a champ.
This is where your old friend plausible deniability goes to bat for you. She only "expected" a private little make-out session--since you smartly left that token in your pocket--but if your make-out game is tight, you're a master at smoothly rounding those bases. Escalate expertly, like the goddamn RVF champ that you are. Because my couch doubles as a bed, I lay them out and go to town. I deflect LMR by periodically coming back up for "a sip of our drinks," before going back to work and advancing the ball upfield each time.

Step 9. Bang.
My conversion rates are considerably higher with this framework than going old-school: doing the make out at the venue and trying to get her back to my place after that. Invariably, you end up having to go for the bang on the second date (if she doesn't flake in between), because she sees the make-out as "giving you enough" to string your hongry-ass along for longer. But with this recipe, not getting the bang is more the exception than the rule. Of course I've had a few of prospects stop short. But I get farther along nonetheless. And, in one of those situations I was, quite literally, cockblocked by a tampon.

Needless to say, your rock-solid logistical planning is going to yield dividends at the bang stage. The good music, nice lighting, and prompt condom access lubricates your dick right into to the love canal.

I don't need to remind you to make sure you put it down respectably, at least. Even if you're not a sex god, make it memorable.

Post: #36

(08-23-2018 06:02 PM)Cavorite Wrote:  

(08-23-2018 05:53 PM)MPD Wrote:  Most RVFers advises against heavy make outs anywhere where you cannot bang. Same goes for setting future dates on the spot, especially first to second date.

As with everything, there are exceptions. But on the average, you'll be better off with the RVF advice above.

Go get'em!

Interesting. Thanks guys.

So what's the optimal way to end a first date? They're typically on a weekday, and my area (northern VA) has terrible logistics.

And what's the logic behind the ghosting?

if it's a heavy makeout session, it sets up expectations that the next time you meet up it will lead to something even more, like sex.

she'll then have to make the decision at the time of your text whether or not she'll sleep with you. if your rapport everywhere else isn't strong enough, she'll ghost

Post: #37

Premise: Although the date ended with a heavy make out, I got ghosted. I could not bang since I had 0 logistics, it was an online date. Anyway, after that she stopped replying to my messages and I saw her on the dating app looking for other guys. I tried to give a little nudge by PMing her to see what she was into, she completely ignored my messages over the app. As a last attempt to salvage, I sent her a message saying that I am sorry for making her out heavily, I am not that type of guy but she looked really beautiful and I got taken away. Obviously she did not reply to any of my messages. Well, anyway it was a clear ghosting, so I stopped any further attempt.

After 2 days, she started to texting me again like (Most probably her expedition for any other side dick did not click).

All of these happened in 1 week time frame.

My goal: bang at her place (or in the car) and if possible have her as my fuck buddy for my emotional tampon (yes, men need tampons too) for the future.

Question: How should I approach?

Post: #38

i'm amazed your apology worked. don't make a habit of doing that

why can't you bang at your place? her place will be more difficult, and most women aren't going to bang a guy they just met in a car

Post: #39

Mystery has a section about this in his mystery method. NEVER do any sort of foreplay unless you're SURE you can close them right then and there.

Just some light kissing is fine, but otherwise she will feel awkward the next day.

Post: #40

(02-01-2019 04:04 PM)Cavorite Wrote:  why can't you bang at your place? her place will be more difficult, and most women aren't going to bang a guy they just met in a car

There are some problem with logistics that are irrelevant here, just assume taking anyone to my place is out of question for now.

Post: #41

"Noticeable increase of ghosting after makeout"

I suggest brushing your teeth and gargling mouth wash.

In all seriousness, just another reason not to eat food on a first date.

Post: #42

Think of making out like an extension of the numbers don't mean shit mentality. If I get a number from a girl without time, relating, conversation etc the next day it's just a number. If before that number I take her on an adventure emotionally and/or physically with a number she has a anchor of remembrance emotionally she can tap that will make her more likely to respond.

Same thing with a makeout. You got the physical but you now also need the emotional. Make her feel something to remember the night. Something new or latent she'd want more of. Women feed off feeling and unlike us the majority of it isn't related to a physical high although it can contribute. Smooth our your game, be also interesting, mysterious and present and it might make this a non-issue.

Post: #43

As others have mentioned, sometimes girls esp if they've been dumped recently just wanna go out for a drink and have a makeout session, doesn't mean they want to bang you, will bang you, or that you screwed up.

I can count on one hand the number of first dates that didn't end in makeouts where I later got the bang. Vs 90% of the time I get the bang later that night or the next date. If the chemistry isn't real its likely not gonna happen.

Post: #44

Agree that building a connection and chemistry with women is vital for maximizing your odds for a second meet or a bang.

When it comes to a makeout, my conclusion is that there are no rules in regard to getting a second date or a bang. If a girl likes you and the planets align i.e. she's single and/or looking, logistics are good, she doesn't carry issues or going through something etc etc then you're getting it. No girl is going to think "Oh he kissed me, I'm not meeting him again" unless, of course, you're kissing like a dog.

Post: #45

I've had heavy, heavy make-outs with girls on a first date and they have texted looking to meet again. The inverse is true, a make-out and they've ghosted.

I've not kissed a girl on a first date, and seen her again. The inverse is also true there.

There is no rhyme or reason to it.

Sometimes you'll meet a girl who is into you in the moment, and then changed her mind for whatever reason (ASD, it was strictly a one-date thing because she had a fight with her boyfriend and is now back with him, she has issues, she felt pressured into the kiss despite a lack of chemistry, whatever).

If a girl is single, available, emotionally healthy, and attracted to you - you can kiss her or not kiss her, and you'll still be seeing her again.