Post: #126

Not long after I started this thread, I did indeed break for several months, and then hit it again with quite the vengeance. It's killing me, though, most of all, when I meet these women I'm immensely attracted to, get all the green lights and indicators of interest . . . and the end is always the same, I get 'the speech'.

I've never been more confident that I'm running my best game, and bringing the best impression, but how can one not feel genuinely undesirable, and of no value when it's always, always the same in the end? I push the escalation and maximize the value of the interaction to the limit, knowing that those 2 hours with her is all I'll get, so I do what I can do. I come away from these 'best' girls with a core-desire to simply have a berth of time to connect, more than just one goddamn date. Some time to work with this one prospect. To build something. But no, they simply have too many options. I could register as 'not too bad' for some of them, but they know they can jump back on the apps and trade up ever more. Does the guy who would be good enough for these women actually fucking exist? Will relationships become extinct for any dude dwelling at any part of the average span of the spectrum?

Even though I'm prepped for it, and move on to the next girl after I get that fateful text or call, I still feel like running up to the top of the highest mountain and roaring in a rage, vowing to quit the Game for all eternity . . . before painfully hoisting myself back into the saddle once more not long after.

I've no intention to 'go my own way' or the like, but I can empathize with these movements, and in sentence, it can all be summarized thus -- you just get sick of it.

Post: #127

Even if you have some game (ie. avoiding newbie pitfalls, exuding confidence, implementing kino/escalation) and are a solid conversationalist, 'good' dates usually aren't enough to guarantee repeat business. It's impossible to have top notch chemistry with every girl, and there are likely other mitigating factors when girls ghost that you'll just never know. Hell, even banging a girl these days isn't any kind of guarantee you'll ever see them again.

Combine that with the proliferation of online 'dating'-- girls are flooded with men reaching out.

Very often my long/short-term success is with girls I banged on date one or two (these can turn into a mini-relationship/plate). The rest either flaked, ghosted or refused to sleep with me until they could lock me into a relationship. 95%+ of the girls who aren't into me just ghost. They rarely if ever send any kind of explanation or rejection text. Women are terrified of confrontation or a guy who might probe them after explaining.

Even if you're a guy who has his shit together- most girls don't think much of the first date and view men as disposable.
In my experience, unless there's a very strong connection or the girl is really into you, most first dates boil down to fucking or never seeing her again.

Post: #128

Let's not worry about these women are doing, and think about what you can do to make your dating life better.

(01-20-2019 03:16 PM)Mess O. Wrote:  Not long after I started this thread, I did indeed break for several months, and then hit it again with quite the vengeance. It's killing me, though, most of all, when I meet these women I'm immensely attracted to, get all the green lights and indicators of interest . . . and the end is always the same, I get 'the speech'.

Have you ever been on a date with a girl where it is the opposite: you like her enough, but you're not yet sure if you want to date her, yet you can tell she's immensely attracted to you?

If you haven't, you need to go on more of those dates and have more of that attitude. You are not used to true indicators of *high* interest from women, and it's making you read the situation all wrong.

I think you're too keen, and the girls are not as keen as you are. They're probably wondering why you seem to like them so much. Women always have a degree of self-loathing, especially the type that go online (contrary to popular belief, there are a lot more that do not), and you need to make them earn your interest, else they get spooked.

Desperation and being in a rush will never help you, and women can smell that a mile away. Even if logically you know she can hop online and get a better deal, that's not how they think. Women think emotionally, don't let your male logic screw with your Game.

Post: #129

I try to be entertaining and engaging, yet outcome independent. I mean, I'm ready for the shit to be done with right then, but at this point I do wonder if some sort of eagerness still shines through. I'm not too sure about that. I go into these things to have a good time, and be fun to be around. And I push that escalation, but in a calculated and genteel fashion, typically. Maybe I need a more 'detached' persona?

What are some of those true indicators of high interest from women?

Post: #130

(06-03-2018 10:30 PM)Mess O. Wrote:  Yep. From OKC. And I did think my reply to that essay of hers was admirable. And my best bud thought it was the most hilarious retort.

Forget online game. Or you can do it but expect 80% of the girls to be nuts. The girls you pull from day game while sober are going to be a lot better, as in not crazy. Your average internet date, you should have very limited expectations. And stop getting these hoes dinner until after you have been fucking them for a while.

I'll say this: treat all girls you are out on dates with like you have been dating them for 6 months already, and many of them will fall in line. You can probably benefit from more kino/touching. I think you are overthinking all of this, I do that too. Be a caveman.

Post: #131

Hell, I get to thinking that I'm doing too much escalation, but I know that I've got a very tempered, yet persistent push/pull to my 'template'. And yeah, this online shit, way too many of my dates are from apps.

What keeps occurring to me regarding actual approaching, is how you've 'met' right then and there, as opposed to an online prospect, where after the muck and mire of the prelude, when we finally meet, it's far too often a severe downhill curve from that point on.

The thing is, in more recent weeks I've been pulling a good few dates that really seem to have an excellent connection. Reciprocal touching, eye-contact, mutual laughs, blah-blah-blah. But after 3 hours, she's had enough. I'm at a loss.

Post: #132

(06-03-2018 08:17 PM)Mess O. Wrote:  My latest date, yesterday evening, I was very pleased with. Overall, it represented an ascendancy of the level of quality I've been able to pull. To be concise, I tried to make the best impression I could, within the scope of the couple of hours it went on for, all the while keeping certain things in mind . . . such as not really giving a fuck at all as to how it turns out, to be realistic as to the likelihood of it going anywhere, and perhaps most predominantly of all, to just have fun with it.

There was very little physical escalation throughout the bulk of the event, given her rather introverted body language, but the eye contact was quite strong, with me holding a stretch for a time, until she'd either demurely glance to one side or downward. Personality-wise, we really seemed to connect.

After 2 hours, I walked her to her car, all the while, her arms folded, and so I relented on attempting to ramp up my standardized escalation template, other than a very subtle graze on the forearm or touch of the lower back.

We crossed a major intersection and approached her car, where I paused there to see her off, by this point having just about dismissed this gal as any kind of a prospect. She turns to me to offer an embrace, to which I reciprocate . . . but then, given how she gazes at me, her face close to mine, it seemed as though she was beckoning me for something more. And, in turn, I felt as though it was my job to provide that. I kissed her softly, and in the midst of such, she clearly had yet to be satisfied, so right there on the side of the street where she was parked, we engage in a tremendously passionate makeout, our hands all over each other. The whole ordeal went along in intervals, by where I'd pull back a bit, stare into her eyes, look over her body, and we'd start the whole thing over. We'd kiss for a half minute or more, back away, break the embrace, and go at it again. Could've been a full 15 rounds of this, with her making a feeble attempt at finishing up to leave, but she'd just stand there, and I'd be hangin' back, ready to let her go, but she'd linger, so I'd pull her in for another round, feeling her ass, kissing her neck, holding her so close.

I made a gentle push toward inviting myself into her place, which was nearby, but she softly declined, after which, we parted ways, and only so reluctantly.

Crossing back over the street, I recall feeling quite pleased, especially given I almost bailed on this one. Still, a thought that held prominence was how even the most advanced levels of escalation can simply not mean anything to these chicks. I think it's very easy and natural for the average dude to walk away from something like that thinking he's really got something special there . . .

Later that night, I get this text . . .

Hey, I just gotta come out and be honest with you because that is best. Dinner
was nice, but when we were at my car I was feeling awkward. I was kind of
going with the flow of things, because that's how I am, but I actually don't think
I should have kissed you or kept going because I wasn't really ready. And I
apologize, I am wierd for just letting things happen. I hate to be a downer now
but Im not feeling this and don't forsee a future, so sorry for the confusion.

Even being ready for it, the pang of disappointment gnawed sharply within me. My response . . .

'k

Tossing the phone aside, I said to myself, "I just can't do this anymore." Now, before anyone here slams me with Abundance Mentality, Oneitis, and all that shit, let me make it clear that I 100% subscribe to the maxim, "She's replaceable", but in recent times, I've been thinking, "Yeah, she's replaceable, all right . . . but with what?" Another 1st date to nowhere? I've simply yet to be able to fully condition myself to completely dismiss any tendency to want to bond with these women, as immensely foolish of a notion that it really is.

you took her for dinner?

First mistake right there

Post: #133

Yeah, yeah, Jesus Christ, that point has been made abundantly clear, as stated in much earlier posts. And this latest date, which stomps out that 1st one I was talking about, in terms of how it all went down, cost $9.

Post: #134

(01-21-2019 03:27 PM)Mess O. Wrote:  Yeah, yeah, Jesus Christ, that point has been made abundantly clear, as stated in much earlier posts. And this latest date, which stomps out that 1st one I was talking about, in terms of how it all went down, cost $9.

its not the cost. You put to much value on the girl. Dinner screams beta and provider. You want to fuck her or date her?

Post: #135

The terms 'beta' and 'provider' sure get tossed around a lot. With the experience I've garnered since I started this thread, I do feel that I've managed to regulate the majority of said beta-ness from earlier dates. New kids like this bro who just appeared here should take more time in the back seats, so that the more seasoned can offer their counsel. And read the rest of the thread, as all those points have all ready been covered.

Post: #136

(01-21-2019 03:39 PM)Mess O. Wrote:  The terms 'beta' and 'provider' sure get tossed around a lot. With the experience I've garnered since I started this thread, I do feel that I've managed to regulate the majority of said beta-ness from earlier dates. New kids like this bro who just appeared here should take more time in the back seats, so that the more seasoned can offer their counsel. And read the rest of the thread, as all those points have all ready been covered.

I am not a kid and been at this game for a long time.

You sound emotional and beta.

Was trying to help you because I have been in your shoes.

You took my post as an attack on your ego. That's why the girl didn't sleep with you. Some of your posts in this thread scream emotional feminine energy.

Don't take a hoe to dinner. It never works out.

End of story

Post: #137

Then, how does one execute a well-themed date, given your own extensive experience?


And also, please point out which of my materials scream 'emotional feminine energy', since no one else on here seems to think that way.

Post: #138

Just had another one of these. Super cute, solid 8 with tits and ass. Had a heavy makeup throughout the night, 30 mins plus, got her back to my place for a little more. She bounced, answered one text the next morning, then ghosted.

Chalk it up to the game. I spent a little too much money, around $160 for an event and drinks at a club after.

Post: #139

I think the best and fastest way is to have someone experienced witness your date and have it on audio, too. It's worth spending some good $, if needed - it will save you time and frustration. It will be money well spent.

There are some things you won't ever see yourself, especially during the date when you're focused on the girl, not yourself. if you want it on the cheap, have the whole thing audio-recorded (I hope you've done it before and listened to?), then pushed to someone for analysis. The technology, all free, is out there. Even just within the audio file, there'll be a plethora of information which will improve you by leaps and bounds.

Post: #140

Really great point. I actually had my best bud (and wingman) sit at an adjacent table during a recent date. By the end of it, he really hardly saw a thing wrong with my performance. Hell, maybe a haircut. Pretty lame chick, though. Shouldn't have bothered. Still, recordings or observations is something I should definitely do more.

This latest date was one of my very best, but I can only wonder what erroneous turns I might have made. Really though, given my experience thus far, it must've been a narrow slight. I did what needed to be done to facilitate attraction and to escalate. She was into me, but just not enough. It's very important to me to keep working and improving, but damn it's rough when I still get 'the speech' after coming away from a date feeling like a star. I primed for the outcome, though, and will find another chick. See, that's what's been happening - I'll meet a particular girl, and have a solid desire to want to keep seeing her, but if it doesn't advance, I move on to another. I hit it hard, though, and burn myself out to a cinder.

Post: #141

(01-21-2019 04:04 PM)dream100 Wrote:  

(01-21-2019 03:39 PM)Mess O. Wrote:  The terms 'beta' and 'provider' sure get tossed around a lot. With the experience I've garnered since I started this thread, I do feel that I've managed to regulate the majority of said beta-ness from earlier dates. New kids like this bro who just appeared here should take more time in the back seats, so that the more seasoned can offer their counsel. And read the rest of the thread, as all those points have all ready been covered.

I am not a kid and been at this game for a long time.

You sound emotional and beta.

Was trying to help you because I have been in your shoes.

You took my post as an attack on your ego. That's why the girl didn't sleep with you. Some of your posts in this thread scream emotional feminine energy.

Don't take a hoe to dinner. It never works out.

End of story

Where you take a girl out doesn't matter.
Whether you are an emotional guy or not doesn't matter.
Beta or not, it doesn't matter.

You'll see guys dating women that do everything we consider wrong, wrong. While I don't advise taking a girl out to dinner on the first date (with a very specific set of exceptions), that isn't the problem.

Do you ever wonder why it seems certain guys just have it with women, and others don't?

The simple answer: dating isn't about regulating. Dating is about authenticity. We live in a world full of fake bullshit, and men and women both crave authenticity.

Forget kino, forget the venues, forget when to text or kiss, or who should pay.

The only question you need to ask: Who am I really?

To be compelling in today's dating market is to be able to subliminally communicate an evocative story. You ever notice that well-written characters can make even dull scenery emotionally charged?

Your job is to become that character, if you aren't already. You need to know who you really are to be able to masterfully tell your story.

You want to execute a well themed date?

Figure out who you really are, and then set up a date that allows you to feed her hints of the deeper characterization underneath.

In an hour long date, I'm able to non-verbally tell a woman:

• I'm already very successful in what I do, even though I had to scratch and claw to get there.
• Eventually, she will end up having sex with me.
• I'm unbothered by nearly everything.
• I have a mission that I'm working towards every day, and that this mission is what my life is based around.
• I'm able to make anything into a joke.
• I'm not interested in trying to impress her. In fact, she should be trying to impress me.
• Things were not always easy for me.
• I'm intelligent, but don't need to flaunt it.
  
  
  I don't need to say a word about any of these, because my setting and my outward characterization says it for me. She gets the sense that all of these things make up who I am, but she doesn't know the exact reasons why.
  
  Women LOVE mystery. If they feel like they have you figured out after the first date, you're not going to get a second one.
  
  The thing is, to do this right you can't be using "practiced" techniques. Everything step that you take, or word that you make has to seem instinctual, and as routine as you getting up in the morning. The only way to get to this level is to do it many times, which is why you'll need to pick a game style in tune with who you really are so it reinforces the areas you're already naturally strong in.
  
  When you do it right, you'll be able to feel it. Not only will women trust you immediately, but they'll be far more open to following your lead.
  
  At that point, you take them by the hand, and as the protagonist of your story, you smile and lead them off to untold adventures as they get to figure out what really lays beneath the vestige you've just hinted at.

Post: #142

Now, here's a Bro worth making an Investment in.

I dig that bullet-point list, too.

Post: #143

(01-21-2019 05:37 PM)Mess O. Wrote:  Really great point. I actually had my best bud (and wingman) sit at an adjacent table during a recent date. By the end of it, he really hardly saw a thing wrong with my performance.

This is part of the problem I think. There's a theme in your posts about performing on the date, about execution, etc. This is detrimental to your game.

I had a major revelation a few months back when I was banging a chick I wasn't all that attracted to. I was happy to have her as a slump buster, but could not have cared if she disappeared. During one of the times I was hanging out with her a lightbulb went off in my head. My tonality, body language, cocksuredness, etc, was remarkably different to how it would have appeared had I been sitting next to some chick I really dug and was trying to bang. The subtle "try-hardness" of me on these dates became apparent to me (high energy, leaning forward, paying attention to everything she said, trying hard not to rock the boat - versus sitting there, leaned back with my arms folded, with a smirk on my face, challenging her).

These are things chicks pick up on. The sub-communication is everything.

Also, stop giving yourself such a hard time. Stop putting all this pressure on yourself. We have all been there. Not one of us on this forum has been spared feeling the sting of a ghost after a "great" first date. It sucks.

Post: #144

(01-21-2019 03:06 PM)Mess O. Wrote:  Hell, I get to thinking that I'm doing too much escalation, but I know that I've got a very tempered, yet persistent push/pull to my 'template'. And yeah, this online shit, way too many of my dates are from apps.

What keeps occurring to me regarding actual approaching, is how you've 'met' right then and there, as opposed to an online prospect, where after the muck and mire of the prelude, when we finally meet, it's far too often a severe downhill curve from that point on.

The thing is, in more recent weeks I've been pulling a good few dates that really seem to have an excellent connection. Reciprocal touching, eye-contact, mutual laughs, blah-blah-blah. But after 3 hours, she's had enough. I'm at a loss.

Mess O

Three things

1. Have you read Tuthmosis's Recipe For First Date Bangs ?

If not...do. It works.* Follow it as closely as you can. Pay attention to the details. (Like Rule number 4)

*This is pretty much the "formula" I independently landed on over 20 years of gaming chicks before I ever read Tuth's post (or found RVF). Its how I knew he knew what he was talking about

2. Your frustration is coming through your posts. I get it...but youre seemingly too vested in getting the "next" date (or GF) and its probably (or possibly) leaking into your date interaction and if so girls are definitely going to pick up on it. Caring is an attraction killer

3. Screen better. Chicks from hook up apps arent looking for a BF...Theyre looking to hook up and then get attracted to the dudes that care less than they do (see #2)

Post: #145

(01-20-2019 03:16 PM)Mess O. Wrote:  Not long after I started this thread, I did indeed break for several months, and then hit it again with quite the vengeance. It's killing me, though, most of all, when I meet these women I'm immensely attracted to, get all the green lights and indicators of interest . . . and the end is always the same, I get 'the speech'.

I've never been more confident that I'm running my best game, and bringing the best impression, but how can one not feel genuinely undesirable, and of no value when it's always, always the same in the end? I push the escalation and maximize the value of the interaction to the limit, knowing that those 2 hours with her is all I'll get, so I do what I can do. I come away from these 'best' girls with a core-desire to simply have a berth of time to connect, more than just one goddamn date. Some time to work with this one prospect. To build something. But no, they simply have too many options. I could register as 'not too bad' for some of them, but they know they can jump back on the apps and trade up ever more. Does the guy who would be good enough for these women actually fucking exist? Will relationships become extinct for any dude dwelling at any part of the average span of the spectrum?

Even though I'm prepped for it, and move on to the next girl after I get that fateful text or call, I still feel like running up to the top of the highest mountain and roaring in a rage, vowing to quit the Game for all eternity . . . before painfully hoisting myself back into the saddle once more not long after.

I've no intention to 'go my own way' or the like, but I can empathize with these movements, and in sentence, it can all be summarized thus -- you just get sick of it.

* I just noticed PT wrote the above while I was typing this. yes, try the first date bang, i've had it work a lot with online dates. I had the impression you had already tried that with no success, so I wrote the below. I've had the below work as well, usually with dates with day game as opposed to online girls:

I see you mention 2 and 3 hour dates. Try a 2 or 3 date combo before "closing"

Example:

Try a one hour first date where you meet her at a "fun" venue that has a little back ground music and sofas to sit on. Get drinks and sit next to her on the sofa. After 30 minutes or so of drinking, go for a little hair touching while sitting on the sofa, kind of just holding her hair (maybe asking her if "it's always been this long") After the drink, suggest a walk and do the small of back touch thing when walking out. Take a one or two block walk while talking. Walk her to her car then do the "sweet" grazing kiss goodnight while maybe touching her hand. Don't ask or hint at a second date , just "have a good evening" Many of these will want to see you again. Second date's up to you.

Keep the first dates to 90 minutes or less this way. Just some thoughts

Post: #146

(01-21-2019 06:14 PM)robreke Wrote:  Try a one hour first date where you meet her at a "fun" venue that has a little back ground music and sofas to sit on. Get drinks and sit next to her on the sofa. After 30 minutes or so of drinking, go for a little hair touching while sitting on the sofa, kind of just holding her hair (maybe asking her if "it's always been this long") After the drink, suggest a walk and do the small of back touch thing when walking out. Take a one or two block walk while talking. Walk her to her car then do the "sweet" grazing kiss goodnight while maybe touching her hand. Don't ask or hint at a second date , just "have a good evening" Many of these will want to see you again. Second date's up to you.

Keep the first dates to 90 minutes or less this way. Just some thoughts

My most recent date was very similar to this, with the gentle touching, hair routine and everything. It had to have been close, but I didn't make a stink out of it to her when I got the speech. At long last, I've shed the habit of ever contacting any of these girls again after that point, as if there's any way she'd change her mind.

And @PT, I'll re-read Tuth's article.

Post: #147

(06-15-2018 11:27 AM)robreke Wrote:  In the initial stages of dating, you basically are like a maestro conducting an orchestra: every little thing, every detail of the orchestra has to be played and "conducted" pretty much perfectly. One mistake and one of the sections starts playing badly and the whole symphony can fall apart.

Unless you're a complete natural, which some guys here certainly are, or her attraction level is already 8.5 on a 10 scale or higher, you have very little room for slip up. The girl is "trying you out" to "see how it goes" on the first date.

In our mind, we already know we want to bang her and probably, if she's hot enough, we'd be down to have some kind of a relationship, before the first date, just based on our attraction.

Not women.

One little slip, one show of over-aggressiveness ( which shows you're a horn-dog who, she thinks, doesn't get laid enough) or 'neediness' or a off-hand comment to the Uber driver or an off-hand comment about some passerby on the street, or whatever, that doesn't measure up to her standards, is sometimes met by 'no second date'

I've pretty much got to the point where I say what I want on dates and it usually works. I think that's because I've been on so many dates, I know what girls find attractive and don't and so, it comes more naturally.

On the other hand, i've had second or third dates where, after the first date, the girl was quite into me and texting me about what my favorite music was because she wanted to make me a playlist, or she was texting me trying to start a converstion before the date (obvious signs of attraction). Then, on the next date, I may escalate too hard, or something else. I was ghosted.

I'd be thinking later to myself, 'wait, that uber driver said something weird so I said something back, or when I commented about that? or when she said that, I now realize that was a very subtle shit test. I think my response "failed" it' Then, I'd wonder ' is that or those reasons the reasons she ghosted?'

I'd think to myself 'no way, no one is that fucking petty' Well, yes, they ARE that fucking petty.

The more I'd think about it the more I'd realize that 'yep, she ghosted me for that of all damn things. Even though we went on a few dates, spent all that time together, she'd rather ghost and start all over.' Unbelievable but true.

Sometimes, it's over aggression and sexualizing, sometimes, it's a 'weird' text after the date, etc...

In the initial stages of dating attractive women, men truly are performing clowns that must 'pass her tests'

I'm not saying be a dancing monkey and worry too much about what she thinks. I advocate Speculator's advice above: just enjoy yourself and don't worry about the random, meaningless statements of girls. Just realize, you'll be ghosted sometimes over petty things

This is why I'm thankful for the easier girls out there. The easier ones always seem to come from online/apps

This is surprisingly accurate.

If you're dating a girl close to your SMV, you have to be perfect or near perfect on the date. When she goes home and hyper analyzes all your actions, one tiny thing that you didn't even notice could end the entire interaction.

When you combine an endless supply of suitors with an overdose of romance media, in her mind, everything has to be perfect for her to continue.

Post: #148

(01-21-2019 06:02 PM)griffinmill Wrote:  During one of the times I was hanging out with her a lightbulb went off in my head. My tonality, body language, cocksuredness, etc, was remarkably different to how it would have appeared had I been sitting next to some chick I really dug and was trying to bang.

This is probably the most unhealthy aspect of the whole male-female dynamic. The whole point is to nail the chick you are genuinely into, but women seem compelled to give it up for guys who want them the least. So even if you win...you lose.

Post: #149

I know I've made some strides, and given that, it seems all the more that it's impossible to keep any of these broads around for more than a hour or two.

Post: #150

Man OP I'm starting to feel for you for real! You seem to be putting in some serious work... yet not getting the spectacular results to match your effort! I know it might not seem like a good idea, especially in the times we're in... but I feel like DayGame might be the Jolt you need to make you realize what is going on with your Game! If you manage to not make women flee right away in DayGame... it literally becomes similar to a Date Setting where you're getting to know someone! This would be a Nice way to get lots of "Date Practice" with only time as an investment! If you manage to do 15-20 of them... you'll specifically know where your sticking point is.

From an outsiders perspective who's browsed this thread very briefly, it seems like you're not "qualifying these women", and somehow convey that you're grateful that she's in your presence! That's the feeling that I'm getting at least, I could be wrong. But if you make it to the field... and do about 15-20 approaches... I guarantee your sticking point will become self-evident! The nakedness of DayGame doesn't leave any filters on... and that's the beauty of it... yet the reason why it's so bloody hard! Keep going at it... eventually you'll win!