Post: #51

(09-26-2011 06:35 PM)TheWolfHowls Wrote:  Sorry, not buying it and i don't agree with Gmac or you. How is it low value and creepy? What makes indirect less creepy? How is this guy a perfect example of direct game? Because she reacts that way? Even if he did it indirect, she would've been weirded out regardless. She was weirded out by "him", not direct. You guys are using footage of bad direct approaches on purpose to try to prove that it doesn't work. Explain how they are conditioned to view it low value and creepy? I can get a million videos of indirect guys sucking but does that prove that it doesn't work? No. Girls are conditioned to view a "half assed" your beautiful or cat call line as creepy and low value.

Your telling me if you went up to a woman said a direct line with power, dominant and confidence...that you'd creep them out? HAHAHA! Sorry but I don't believe that.

Watch this and tell me otherwise:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_du78uQ07c

I understand if you guys prefer indirect which is understandable BUT to say that direct creeps a girl is just silly.

I'll say it again. For the average guy, direct game creeps out 99.9% of women. I've seen it a thousand times. Linking a love systems video (of all things) where they spend 80% of the time talking to the camera after one blurry, no audio approach isn't going to prove anything. "PUA" videos in general are extremely subjective as it is, so you shouldn't really bother linking them unless you're going to post some unscripted, 100% uncut clips with no editing.

Why is indirect less creepy? Because it's impersonal.

Post: #52

(09-26-2011 06:35 PM)TheWolfHowls Wrote:  Sorry, not buying it and i don't agree with Gmac or you. How is it low value and creepy? What makes indirect less creepy? How is this guy a perfect example of direct game? Because she reacts that way? Even if he did it indirect, she would've been weirded out regardless. She was weirded out by "him", not direct. You guys are using footage of bad direct approaches on purpose to try to prove that it doesn't work. Explain how they are conditioned to view it low value and creepy? I can get a million videos of indirect guys sucking but does that prove that it doesn't work? No. Girls are conditioned to view a "half assed" your beautiful or cat call line as creepy and low value.

Your telling me if you went up to a woman said a direct line with power, dominant and confidence...that you'd creep them out? HAHAHA! Sorry but I don't believe that.

Watch this and tell me otherwise:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_du78uQ07c

I understand if you guys prefer indirect which is understandable BUT to say that direct creeps a girl is just silly.

Black guys in Sweden find direct game to be successful! Surprise.

Post: #53

For the sake of argument I searched for successful Direct Game videos in America. Couldn't find any on YouTube.

Post: #54

Direct game is easy as hell in places where girls aren't used to it if you dress decently and do it in a confident manner.
Its way harder in Toronto though, especially in the Eaton Centre.

There have been days where I have seen more pickup dudes than hot girls in the Eaton Centre!
I think girls who live in downtown Toronto are aware of how much pickup goes on. There are dozens of puas in Toronto and lets say if 30 puas approach 1,000 girls each in the main core of Toronto it means that 30,000 girls in downtown are already expecting a guy to try pick them up. Considering 1 in 4 girls in the age group of 18-25 are cute enough to hit on that means girls in Toronto are used to being hit on.

http://www.toronto.ca/demographics/pdf/2...h_maps.pdf

Check out table 2 on page 5. The number of girls age 15-24 age group that I and most other young dudes hit on is 159,000.
The number of girls in the age group of 20-29(which is the main demographic for pickup guys who are older) is almost 188,000.

Number of girls in the age group of 19-29 is 259,000.

Now if we look at my age group and presume that me and my two friends have done 1000 approaches(very reasonable considering we can do 10 in a day and we go out 4-5 days a week for the last 8 months). That means in our target demographic we have approached 3,000 out of 159,000 girls that live in the downtown core. Obviously thats not accurate considering that a lot of the girls we opened were tourists. But it gives you an idea of how just three guys can instantly raise the egos of 3,000 women(maybe temporarily).

Now if we assume that 30 puas in Toronto have done a 1000 daytime approaches eadch on 259,000 women(of which lets say 45-50k are attractive) then women in Toronto are very familiar with guys approaching them in the daytime. The girls who are friendly are usually tourists or new to town. Toronto is the home turf of game and there are a huge number of pickup dudes here, a lot of whom creep women off.

This means half of all attractive women would have been approached in the daytime over the past few years. Many of them multiple times because they are attractive(Most approaches are done on the subset of girls that are really attractive). Combine that with the countless approaches they deal with during the nighttime and the advances of beta orbiters in their social circle and you can see why they are not really open to meeting guys randomly in the mall. They usually already have a lot of options.

Is it surprising at all that women have high bitch shields in Toronto?

This is why its important to focus your game on house parties and social circle game in Toronto. Roosh's day game model also does a good job at opening girls up here in Toronto(I haven't gotten beyond rambling and dropping a bait or too). Going to parties is just a better idea and the girls are usually very friendly and open to meeting guys since you already have social value just because you're there. Night game works too from what I've heard but I dont' have that option right now because I don't have a fake id.

I know I burned hundreds and hundreds of sets into the ground as a learning process, and in a citu with a large number of puas it can actually make a difference and tilt the dating market(especially with direct game). I'm careful about direct game now unless I feel supremely confident and in the moment.

Post: #55

GMAC,


I'm too lazy to dig up videos of day game approaches, but there are tons online with successful daygame direct approaches if you do your searches, the starter of this thread picked one where the guy while ballsy and did approach some hot women, his game sucked no matter what game he would have tried.

You can always find sucky direct game videos, to try and make a case if thats what he focuses on. There are also loads of creepy indirect videos where guys are walking up on the street doing opinion openers looking weired.

If ur in DC there are serveral guys in the community who do good direct day game. Let me know if you wanna see it backed up for real!

Post: #56

(09-26-2011 06:14 PM)Mace Wrote:  Listen to Gmac, this man speaks the truth. Here's a video of a guy doing direct game in America. Watch the reaction of the woman at 2:50.





This is how American women react to an average guy doing direct game. You may think it's masculine and alpha and bold, but women here are conditioned to believe it's low value and creepy.

No, no no. That is half assed game and the guys are just idiots. He's dressed awful, the way he talks to them sounds wack. This is another terrible example. Do you honest believe that's what direct game even consists of? Them on purpose trying to show weak game? The women are repulsed by these things alone.

Also your mentioning average guys again. Average guys suck in general, we know that already. Just because most of these guys don't show that much confidence shouldn't be a reason to disregard it.

Post: #57

Quote:WHat do you guys call succesful ? getting a phone number? or actually getting sex....

Many girls give their number out to direct apporaches becasue they may not want to hurt the guys feelings

Girls do that shit no matter what style you use.

Post: #58

(09-26-2011 10:56 PM)pros80 Wrote:  GMAC,


I'm too lazy to dig up videos of day game approaches, but there are tons online with successful daygame direct approaches if you do your searches, the starter of this thread picked one where the guy while ballsy and did approach some hot women, his game sucked no matter what game he would have tried.

Post at least one video of successful direct game in America with an average-looking guy.

Post: #59

Bobbyboy,

Bookstore game is mad easy.

I think people are mainly talking about good cold street approache with a moving target.

The other vid is in Europe with a mexican tourist for pete sakes. Anything better than that? lol

Post: #60

(09-27-2011 07:49 AM)bobbyboy Wrote:  Post at least one video of successful direct game in America with an average-looking guy.

Quote:This dude went direct and got an instant date.

here is the source: http://justinwaynepua.com/2010/12/05/jus...-analysis/

and here is another video that confirms that he gets lays from day game...

all sources from http://justinwaynepua.com/

there is Krauser PUA,,, he has a bunch of videos like

if this isnt enough, i dont know what is...

Krauser = Not in America

That other guy was linked before.

You guys are missing the point. Having one or two guys able to pull it off doesn't mean direct game works for the average guy. Even if these videos were completely unedited and showed every single approach, both the people you're mentioning are on a much different level than your average guy learning game (the majority of the people who read these boards).

If anything, attempting direct game may lead to improved confidence and net you a bunch of numbers that may or may not lead to anywhere. I'd like to see a guy document his indirect/direct approaches side by side and show exactly how well the styles fair against each other. Like everything, results will always vary. I'm sure there are guys (an extreme minority) out there that dominate by going direct, but everything I've seen and done tells me the ROI isn't really there.

Post: #61

The last Paul Janka NC video was probably a flake. See the reaction of the woman after he made his intention obvious (her gesture, and her voice tonality when saying "sure"). She probably gave him a number (any number) to get rid of him.

Another thing: videos do not comfirm anything. They can be faked easily. Though this doesn't tell us whether street game works or not. Only your own experience can put an answer to that question.

Post: #62

[/quote]

Krauser = Not in America

That other guy was linked before.

You guys are missing the point. Having one or two guys able to pull it off doesn't mean direct game works for the average guy. Even if these videos were completely unedited and showed every single approach, both the people you're mentioning are on a much different level than your average guy learning game (the majority of the people who read these boards).

If anything, attempting direct game may lead to improved confidence and net you a bunch of numbers that may or may not lead to anywhere. I'd like to see a guy document his indirect/direct approaches side by side and show exactly how well the styles fair against each other. Like everything, results will always vary. I'm sure there are guys (an extreme minority) out there that dominate by going direct, but everything I've seen and done tells me the ROI isn't really there.
[/quote]

I can see where ur comming from. An average awkward guy will come of weired if he goes up and states intent right off the bat and not know how to handle it.

But one of the gripes I have with new guys who are asexual going indirect of the bat is that they stay that way too long and stay platonic. How do you teach them indirect and have them improve their ability to show intent .

Post: #63

bobbyboy = Justin Wayne

Dude shows up out of nowhere and all his posts are blowing Justin Wayne's jock.

Good stealth marketing Justin.

Post: #64

These videos are bad but it's much worse to see direct game fail like that in real life. Saw it happen in Queens, and it was so bad I could barely swallow my beer. It made me embarrassed.

Post: #65

This whole debate is kind of retarded. There is no One True Game™. Everyone needs to figure out for themselves which style they prefer. For me, going direct straight off is too much, and I just can't do it (yet). Most of direct is not what you say but how you say it, and the million little microbehaviors that women pick up on through your body language that determines what happens. I'm sure I can go out and repeat verbatim what Krauser or Justin Wayne say, and I will fail. I think you need to have real presence to be successful in direct game. Anyway, in the end it's all about meet -> bang, and I'm 95% certain that there is no statistical significance between the same person using direct vs. indirect in the amount of bangs they get.

What I like about Day Bang is that it's been field tested here in DC, so we know it can work. If I get a bang because I asked a girl where I can find a yellow and green fish then so much the better.

Post: #66

(09-27-2011 10:40 AM)bobbyboy Wrote:  

(09-27-2011 09:51 AM)Mace Wrote:  Dude shows up out of nowhere and all his posts are blowing Justin Wayne's jock.

ppl are asking for succesful daygame videos. i give them.

i actually like Krauser PUA 's content more. he goes more indepth and has his own system

but they said that european videos dont count.

this is an example of good direct approaching.

An Eastern European girl in the UK... just like all of Krauser's videos. No way an American woman would react so feminine and submissive. And while a non-feminist foreign woman thinks his approach is "bold, masculine" an American/Anglo woman thinks "weird, creepy".

I still have yet to see Krauser approach a fluent native English-speaking American or English woman direct with success. The few early videos I've seen of him approaching English girls were complete blowouts. He's removed those videos now that he's gone commercial with a Day Game book (selling for $70!).

Post: #67

The bottom line isn't if Justin Wayne is the world's best player or not.

The question is if he can help other guys become better with women? I don't think so.

Post: #68

(09-27-2011 11:20 AM)bobbyboy Wrote:  Only one guy i've seen successfully get a lot of sex from streets with English speaking Anglo girls and it the Justin Wayne dude...

I checked out JWs videos and most of the girls seem like tourists from overseas.

He even made a comment about that in his 3 lays in 24hr post. Because thats the only vid really with white Anglos.

Post: #69

Most of Krauser's, JW's, Yad's girls are foreigners? That's natural! I'll tell you why:

I used to do street game in the Museumsinsel area in the very centre of Berlin. This place is full of foreigners, both tourists and immigrants, often exchange students.

The relation of German girls to foreigners was 50-50. Since Germans tend to be overweight, the relation of attractive German girls to attractive foreigners was 30-70.

I had instant dates (off street cold approach) with women from England, France, Portugal, Lithuania, Latvia, Ukraine, Russia, Germany, Belgium, Czech Republic, Finland, Brazil, Belorussia, Hungary, and... with a couple of girls from the USA who were "out of my league" looks-wise.

This shit works everywhere in the world.

Krauser and Yag are gaming in central London. Tons of tourists/foreigners there. JW games in Manhattan, tons of tourists/foreigners. That's the reason.

Post: #70

(09-27-2011 01:38 PM)Mighty Mouse Wrote:  This shit works everywhere in the world.

Krauser and Yag are gaming in central London. Tons of tourists/foreigners there. JW games in Manhattan, tons of tourists/foreigners. That's the reason.

Exactly. Those same tactics would probably fail miserably on K st in DC. Not to hate on their game but Roosh always talks about how venue selection is important at night. I think the same thing goes for day game.

Tourists just looking for some fun will be a lot easier to game then locals.

Post: #71

double post, sorry

Post: #72

(09-27-2011 02:10 PM)bobbyboy Wrote:  Im wondering if gaming locals in any place is harder than foreigners. I dont mean american girls vs european. Im sure if I lived in Europe, I would feel the same way i feel in NY anout the level of difficulty,

However, IM not as travelled as Roosh and stuff. I do plan on travelling for a whole year though. It seems like the best way to get laid and learn...

Ok, my personal experience is very limited so far, but this is what it looked like when I was the tourist in a foreign country and the target was the local:

Krakow, 2 sets - 1 rejection, 1 instant date

Riga, 1 set - 1 instant date

Budapest, 3 sets, 1 instant date of 6 h including some good things, 2 rejections

Amsterdam, 3 sets, 1 instant date, 1 rejection, 1 girl on long game

All street cold approaches. Again, very limited experience in this constellation so far. But only to judge from this until now, gaming locals as a tourist seems to work as well.

(Respect for JW, btw. I didn't question his - or Krauser's - abilities.)

Post: #73

Reading through this thread I get the feeling that a bunch of you guys are holding yourselves back. I want to help some of you guys out, PM me and I'll send you a copy of some books that got me on the right track. Or pm me if you just want some new books to add to your library.

Post: #74

Going indirect is the way to go, all i can say is WOW.

Post: #75

That Wayne bloke succeeds cause of his awesome voice
The girl knows she could kick the shit out of him !