Post: #51

(04-12-2018 08:38 AM)Disco_Volante Wrote:  The Cirrus SR22 is the most popular, sexy personal plane right now, they're supposedly the safest yet they still have hundreds of fatalities every year. It looks cool as hell but once you start going 130mph+ you're risking your life just getting in the damn thing.

Price tag on a Cirrus is north of $600k so that's a serious barrier to entry for the safest of the light planes; it's a high-tech piece of work though. On the other hand, any chump can scrape together $75k for an old Cessna. My buddy used to work at an FBO and he had a few tales about those weekend warriors...

Post: #52

A quick peak at this chicks IG shows the same shallow, vapid, basic crap that so many girls aspire to. It's like cookie cutter at this point. Her last remaining mark on this earth is pictures of pools, planes, and sushi she ate. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if these people didn't know who JFK jr. even was. Maybe senior too.
I'd bet money at least two of em couldn't name the current Vice President of the United States.
Still, they were all somebody's kids/brothers/sisters. It's tempting to poke fun at how truly stupid people can be but this shit is really sad.

Post: #53

(04-12-2018 09:44 AM)Chetthebaker Wrote:  A quick peak at this chicks IG shows the same shallow, vapid, basic crap that so many girls aspire to. It's like cookie cutter at this point. Her last remaining mark on this earth is pictures of pools, planes, and sushi she ate. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if these people didn't know who JFK jr. even was. Maybe senior too.
I'd bet money at least two of em couldn't name the current Vice President of the United States.
Still, they were all somebody's kids/brothers/sisters. It's tempting to poke fun at how truly stupid people can be but this shit is really sad.

On the other hand - those guys enjoyed life and they were in a privileged position to do so without thinking about anything negative.

It's sad for their families since they were so young.

My last boss owned 2 of similar planes, but they were new ones of course. He probably wanted to get the "private plane" feeling since he used it for transportation and less for fun. You can achieve fun flying much cheaper and safer with an ultralight plane that carries one passenger.

And even my ex-boss would not fly at night with one of those planes - too many risks. If you want to show off, then you might as well buy a limo, get a driver and spend the extra time banging a girl in the back. Gets you there safer than buying a 30 year old plane - and it's often cheaper.

Post: #54

(04-12-2018 09:44 AM)Chetthebaker Wrote:  Her last remaining mark on this earth is pictures of pools, planes, and sushi she ate.

Not to be pedantic, but this is her last remaining mark on this earth:



Then again, it is technically a picture of a plane.

Post: #55

(04-12-2018 06:37 AM)Dulceácido Wrote:  

(04-11-2018 05:14 PM)TheOllam Wrote:  Their final pics are hauntingly stupid

Anyone else extremely put off by how fucking old this cockpit is? Holy shit. Things flew back then? (Well, obviously not this one, but still, you get what I mean)

Looks like the steering wheel of a Pontiac Fierro.

That's the standard equipment you're going to see in any small Piper aircraft. I have over 500 hours in light aircraft and that's pretty much the usual.

I don't like how the airspeed indicator is a foot away from the altimeter and other instruments. I would not fly with that configuration in instrument conditions.

Post: #56

I guess the inexperienced "pilot" thought flying was somewhere between taking a nice commercial airliner and driving a car.

"Yeah, yeah guys... I got this."

BOOM.

Post: #57

(04-12-2018 07:46 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  Here's my shot in the dark.

During takeoff the instagram whores were not sitting in their seats. They were probably a little drunk (or a lot drunk) and busy doing their jobs, ie taking selfies while kneeling in the seats or standing in the aisle or whatever. Fair odds they were all packed on the side of the plane where the windows were facing the lights of the city for obvious selfie-based reasons.

So the pilot decides he's going to play Captain BigMan and either go for a steep climb and/or gain some altitude before banking hard. Figures he can get the girls to scream and get a little wet.

Possibility one. He climbs hard (possible in that plane?) and all the dumbshits along with all their luggage tumble to the back of the plane. This causes it to become extremely tail heavy. It momentarily looks like the world's dumbest helicopter and plummets to earth.

Possibility two. He banks hard, sending the remainder of the passengers and luggage on the high side to the low side. The pilot can no longer straighten up or simply panics and fails to use the options available. The plane knifes into the ground sideways.

If I were a betting man...

Talk about a shot in the dark. There's essentially zero aisle in a plane like that. Once you're seated, you're seated. You don't "stand" or even stand with your head ducked in a plane like that. You're basically sitting or on your knees. There is no room for people or luggage to be "rolling around."

There is only one option with the claimed number of passengers, the experience level of the pilot, and the location of the crash. That plane was completely overweight and only got MAYBE 10 feet off the ground and hit something/immediately went down. Go look up the Scottsdale Airport and look at a sattelite/top down view of where the golf course is in relation to the end of the runway. This guy basically did a drag race run into the golf course off the runway.

If that dude had any net worth he's gonna get sued into the stone age for killing those people. There was zero chance of that plane making it that overloaded.

Post: #58

(04-12-2018 01:08 PM)AneroidOcean Wrote:  Go look up the Scottsdale Airport and look at a sattelite/top down view of where the golf course is in relation to the end of the runway. This guy basically did a drag race run into the golf course off the runway.

Exactly this. You could have probably have literally witnessed the entire event from takeoff to exploding lawn dart from FLW or the 101 if you were driving past at the right moment. It'd be a good Evel Knievel motorcycle jump - and that's about it.

Post: #59

Gravity + kinetics is a bitch. Pussy pass denied

Post: #60

(04-12-2018 01:08 PM)AneroidOcean Wrote:  [quote='Leonard D Neubache' pid='1766467' dateline='1523537212']
Go look up the Scottsdale Airport and look at a sattelite/top down view of where the golf course is in relation to the end of the runway. This guy basically did a drag race run into the golf course off the runway.

I've worked in that area and the plane crashed on the back end of that strip meaning he took off in the direction that nearly all planes in that airpark use for landing OR he took off in the "normal" direction, meaning southwest towards phoenix, banked right and lost control the entire time, back across the airport, across the water canal and THEN crashing into the golf course which is very very unlikely.
Very weird he crashed there and so close to the end of the landing strip.
Something went wrong very fast with that Piper.
Puzzling.

Post: #61

Even more damning is that Scottsdale airport has an 8500’ runway and that plane has a 860’ ground roll. Gross negligence will be repeated many times amongst the litigators.

Post: #62

I'm not an accident investigator, but the small size of the debris field is interesting as well as the fact that you don't see very many pieces of uncharred aircraft. That seems to indicate they hit the ground at a steep angle followed by an intense fire. RIP

Post: #63

(04-12-2018 02:39 PM)Duke Main Wrote:  I'm not an accident investigator, but the small size of the debris field is interesting as well as the fact that you don't see very many pieces of uncharred aircraft. That seems to indicate they hit the ground at a steep angle followed by an intense fire. RIP

I was thinking about that, and I'm especially surprised that the crash site is not quite where I thought it was (see my red X). They took off from runway 3, according to the news, so like estraudi said, they took off into the northeast. I don't know enough about it, but I'm assuming that if the plane was overloaded and the pilot turned west too fast, too hard (toward Vegas) he could lose enough energy to crash at such a steep angle.

There's also a very large golf course pond about 75 feet behind the crash site, not visible on the map but you can see the edge of it in the lower-left of the picture I posted in #54, which I assume the pilot could have been trying to deliberately steer into. However, then the steep angle seems a little odd to me, but maybe not.

EDIT: Reworked the map for scale and to get the pond into it. Also maybe of interest, the recommended noise abatement flight paths all lead out over or beyond the 101, not the golf course.

Post: #64

I'm glad she's dead.

Post: #65

Is that a bad photoshop or is she half horse?

Post: #66

(04-12-2018 04:37 PM)iop890 Wrote:  

I'm glad she's dead.

Why? What has she done to deserve to die so young?

Post: #67

(04-12-2018 04:55 PM)Rocha Wrote:  

(04-12-2018 04:37 PM)iop890 Wrote:  I'm glad she's dead.

Why? What has she done to deserve to die so young?

(03-15-2018 07:59 PM)iop890 Wrote:  This will only make Don Jr. hate the degenerates rotting our culture even more.

I'm going to get my right wing death squads eventually.

Also:

(10-19-2016 07:26 PM)iop890 Wrote:  "Blond" women with visible dark roots should be sent to camps.

(02-11-2018 10:04 PM)iop890 Wrote:  When I come into power they're going in camps.

Soon...

Post: #68

(04-12-2018 04:55 PM)Rocha Wrote:  

(04-12-2018 04:37 PM)iop890 Wrote:  

I'm glad she's dead.

Why? What has she done to deserve to die so young?

Fake blonde, pointy elbows...

Post: #69

She was aight.

WvB (would have banged)


Im waiting for Atlanta Man's "Waste of a perfectly good white girl, what damn shame"

Post: #70

(04-12-2018 03:36 PM)Jetset Wrote:  

(04-12-2018 02:39 PM)Duke Main Wrote:  I'm not an accident investigator, but the small size of the debris field is interesting as well as the fact that you don't see very many pieces of uncharred aircraft. That seems to indicate they hit the ground at a steep angle followed by an intense fire. RIP

I was thinking about that, and I'm especially surprised that the crash site is not quite where I thought it was (see my red X). They took off from runway 3, according to the news, so like estraudi said, they took off into the northeast. I don't know enough about it, but I'm assuming that if the plane was overloaded and the pilot turned west too fast, too hard (toward Vegas) he could lose enough energy to crash at such a steep angle.

There's also a very large golf course pond about 75 feet behind the crash site, not visible on the map but you can see the edge of it in the lower-left of the picture I posted in #54, which I assume the pilot could have been trying to deliberately steer into. However, then the steep angle seems a little odd to me, but maybe not.

EDIT: Reworked the map for scale and to get the pond into it. Also maybe of interest, the recommended noise abatement flight paths all lead out over or beyond the 101, not the golf course.

<SNIP>

Nice visuals, thank you. That's what I was getting at and after reviewing your diagrams I agree that the X is where they crashed, so they didn't drag race straight off the runway and they must've banked hard to the west or some other maneuver that ended with them there. Very strange, but not at all surprising considering the overload another member calculated. No drag race, but they definitely hooked that take-off shot into the sand trap.

Too soon?

Post: #71

(04-12-2018 08:38 AM)Disco_Volante Wrote:  I've thought about taking flying lessons but those small planes seem dangerous as fuck. The wind tosses those light planes around like a kite while you're going 100mph trying to land. A little mistake you're RIP.

The Cirrus SR22 is the most popular, sexy personal plane right now, they're supposedly the safest yet they still have hundreds of fatalities every year. It looks cool as hell but once you start going 130mph+ you're risking your life just getting in the damn thing.

Noone owns newer aircraft except doctors and wealthy people. Even a basic Cessna model is like 280k. The only affordable planes for normies are at least 30 years old like this one.

The planes are safe enough. It's the pilot's decisions that can be safe or unsafe. Don't be scared away from flying, just understand that it's your knowledge, your work, and your decisions that will keep you alive.

I also wouldn't buy a plane. There's a lot more to it than owning a car. Start out by renting time in planes from a flying club. If you like it and end up spending a lot of time flying, find a group of likeminded guys to join you in buying a plane. That way you share the costs of maintenance and certification.

A "basic model Cessna" is an ideal aircraft to learn to fly in. The fact that they have been around for ages is a testament to their safety. But, I can't stress enough that your overall safety depends on your decisions as a pilot.

Post: #72

Yeah, the latest indication is that everyone on this thread is correct at once: it was overloaded, it was particularly overweight in the back with luggage and could have gone into a spin, climbing too suddenly, banking too hard over the golf course, and also they may not accounted for the heat. The pilot apparently gave new meaning to "ego-lifting":

http://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/arizona...ng-takeoff

Quote:The plane seemed to rise just feet off the runway, not gaining any altitude. It alarmed the person in the tower to the point where she radioed the pilot, asking if there was trouble.

Tower: "Comanche 5 6 ... experiencing any difficulty?"

Pilot: "Ah, we're good.. we're just in training mode."

Nah bro, we're sweet. Got to impress these bitches.

In an earlier post, I'd wondered if the pilot was trying to ditch in the golf course pond and just didn't make it, or miscalculated because it was dark and there was a berm obstructing his view until the last minute anyway. That seemed odd given the steep impact, though. They're suggesting that even trying to get over the thirty-foot berm put him into a stall and that was that.

EDIT: Artist's rendering.

Post: #73

The weight of those female egos must have taken that small plane over the weight limit!

Post: #74

Ah i didnt know it crashed on takeoff. Yeah, im with the overweight / improper performance planning camp.

There is a saying in the aviation community: Manuals are written in blood.

There is also another saying: One day you will walk out to your aircraft for your last flight. You may know it at the time, you may not.

Sad story. Shame to see what appears to be ignorance and ego end so many lives.

Post: #75

Another one: there are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots.

Increased weight has effects across the entire performance and handling spectrum of an aircraft - it cuts climb rate, increases stall speed, limits allowable bank angles for turns, drops service ceiling, endurance and range. But most of all it impacts things on the runway - doubling the takeoff weight quadruples takeoff distance.