Post: #1

I do day game at college campuses. My day game interactions last no more than 5-10 minutes. Usually I pull a number from it. Staying any longer in set is a waste of time, and it's mostly not necessary if a player has tight text & phone game. Spend your time gaming more chicks and pulling more numbers.

The biggest challenge in pickup is not getting the number - girls these days give out their numbers like candy. The problem is getting the lizards to pick up the phone when you call, or respond to your text. Often they won't. So how to combat flaky numbers?

The most critical game is played in text and phone.

Keep in mind that she's only actually spoken to you for 5 minutes, you're still a "random" to her. It takes a bit of time to establish enough rapport/comfort for the girl to be invested and comfortable enough to meet with you alone.

In my experience with college girls, it takes a good 2-3 days of steady text correspondence through the course of the day to get her comfortable enough to even answer the phone. An impromptu phone call from a "random" guy is "creepy" to her and they never pick up.

I like the "text to call" strategy. After you exchange a series of texts, you cut the interaction with something like "hitting the gym now, you free for a quick call around 10? Chat like normal adults." Then call her right before she goes to bed that time, talk to her for 20 minutes and set up a time to meet. At this point she knows your voice, you've moved from "random guy" to "normal interesting guy" and she feels comfortable enough to meet you alone.

You probably don't have to deal with this BS with girls 25+, but college girls are of the MSN/Facebook/BBM/texting/"I'm not good on the phone" generation.

So my method is:

Day 1 - get number, text her that night "good meeting you, callback humour")
Day 2-3 - exchange texts through the day to build rapport/establish comfort
Day 4 - "text to call" & phone call
Day 5/6//7 - meet

If you can't get a meet within a week of the number-close, it's a bust - at this point she's likely forgotten what you look like.

IMO this is the most effective strategy to combat flakes from quick number closes, and transition to meet and lay.

Input appreciated.

Post: #2

I also do a lot of daygame, especially in the street and in parks.

But I do it in a completely different way, because I never go for the number only. I always go for a date right now (instant date = ID). But let's not start another annoying NC vs. ID debate.

Before going for IDs systematically, I had some experience with going for numbers exclusively, so here I will refer to that.

(09-18-2011 04:11 AM)Mace Wrote:  The most critical game is played in text and phone.

I disagree. If a girl flakes or not is not likely to depend on the quality of your phone game. Probably she has already decided either to flake or not to flake during the approach.

Coming from my personal experience, the best thing to prevent a flake from a SHORT (like 5 mins.) interaction on the street is...

...strong qualification (during the approach, not later on the phone). There must be a reason beyond her looks why you want to see her again. Women have a certain idea in their mind how they want to be seen by others. Take this into consideration when you game her.

Post: #3

IDs are great but most times girls are busy and have somewhere to go.

Post: #4

Here's the best strategy you can use to prevent flaking:

Buy Day Bang.

Post: #5

i don't know what happened to my post???

Post: #6

i can see it when i press "edit" but when i press "post reply" it disappears ?

Post: #7

fuck!

Post: #8

Can you really control the outcome?

I mean, if the girl isn't really down, then she's not really down.

There could be a number of reasons as to why she's not, and you'll often find they have nothing really to do with you.

I think dudes need to focus more on what it is they're doing and how they're doing it, and not worry about trying to figure out how to control or coerce the women.

A girl who's flaking IMO is doing you a favor, because it says she's not really interested, and your time and energy doesn't need to be wasted, move on.

Post: #9

(09-18-2011 03:40 PM)jariel Wrote:  A girl who's flaking IMO is doing you a favor, because it says she's not really interested, and your time and energy doesn't need to be wasted, move on.

Very nice advice!

Post: #10

(09-18-2011 03:40 PM)jariel Wrote:  I think dudes need to focus more on what it is they're doing and how they're doing it, and not worry about trying to figure out how to control or coerce the women.

This.

Also, Gio, man, I actually laughed out loud at that string of posts.

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Post: #11

This is one of my favorite topics. I deal with this almost everyday.

If a girl gives you her number, its does not necessarily mean that she is interested in you. Girls sometimes give out their numbers just to be polite, or just to get you to go away, or just because you gave her an ego boost.

Alof of times, as they are typing their number into your phone, they know they are not ever going to answer your call.

In my experience, the only thing you can do to prevent this is...

Improve your Game!

Seriously. Think about it. If a girl doesn't want to talk to you again, you must not be interesting to her. If a girl doesn't want to see you again or hang out with you, you must not be very attractive to her.

You didn't Game her well enough in the initial interaction. Did you demonstrate your value? Did you try to build comfort and attraction? Did you try to find things in common? Did you get her talking and asking questions?

The first approach is almost like a first date. That is your chance to impress her. If you don't impress her with your first 5-10 minutes of conversation, she is probably not going to want to see you again.

I think girls can tell after just a few minutes if they are going to bang a guy or not.

(09-18-2011 04:11 AM)Mace Wrote:  The biggest challenge in pickup is not getting the number - girls these days give out their numbers like candy. The problem is getting the lizards to pick up the phone when you call, or respond to your text. Often they won't. So how to combat flaky numbers?

Your goal should not be a phone number. Your goal should be to get her laughing, talking, and asking you questions. Go for an "insta-date" if you can.

Engage her emotions. The more emotionally invested she is into the first interaction the more chance she will return your call or text.

Build more comfort and attraction before going for the number. Getting her attracted is more important then getting her number. When your Game gets really strong, they will ask you for your number.

(09-18-2011 04:11 AM)Mace Wrote:  The most critical game is played in text and phone.

You can definitely build attraction and comfort over the phone, but that can be risky, what if you never get her on the phone? If you have a chance to do that in person during the first approach, I think that's better. If you get some chemistry going in person, she might be excited to talk to you again. Instead of just being a "random" guy who she gave her number to.

(09-18-2011 04:11 AM)Mace Wrote:  So my method is:

Day 1 - get number, text her that night "good meeting you, callback humour")
Day 2-3 - exchange texts through the day to build rapport/establish comfort
Day 4 - "text to call" & phone call
Day 5/6//7 - meet

If you can't get a meet within a week of the number-close, it's a bust - at this point she's likely forgotten what you look like.

I like it. This is very similar to the method I use, except I usually don't contact them on the same day I meet them. Unless, of course, the first approach/interaction was really, really good. I usually wait 3 days, text/chat a little, and then go for the date about a week later.

Mace,

It sounds like you are on the right track. I'm sure as your Game gets better, you will get less flakes.

Look up something the PUA's call "attraction switches". I think its important address these in the first approach.

Post: #12

(09-18-2011 06:51 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  This is one of my favorite topics. I deal with this almost everyday.

If a girl gives you her number, its does not necessarily mean that she is interested in you. Girls sometimes give out their numbers just to be polite, or just to get you to go away, or just because you gave her an ego boost.

Alof of times, as they are typing their number into your phone, they know they are not ever going to answer your call.

In my experience, the only thing you can do to prevent this is...

Improve your Game!

Seriously. Think about it. If a girl doesn't want to talk to you again, you must not be interesting to her. If a girl doesn't want to see you again or hang out with you, you must not be very attractive to her.

The problem I have with this line of thinking is that it's completely one-sided.

The end result doesn't necessarily have anything to do with you.

A dude shouldn't translate "well she didn't pick up my call" to "I need to tighten up my game".

There are literally a million reasons as to why she didn't, so one shouldn't even care, because it's not like she'll ever inform you as to "why?".

We're human beings, we all make conscious and unconscious decisions, and I think it's unrealistic to suggest that what you do or say during a five minute banter session with a stranger will automatically guarantee that at a later point in time that person will want to continue the interaction.

Bottom line, if a girl is down, she's down, she'll pick up your call, respond to your text, meet you out for that drink, whatever. If she's not really down, then she's not, and you'll end up with an outcome that conveys that, but whatever, then you move on and continue looking for one that is.

Post: #13

Jariel,

If a guy is getting alot of numbers, but he is not turning any of those numbers into bangs.

What do you suggest he do?

Just keep approaching girls until he finds one that likes him. Well, I agree with that but I am taking it a step further.

I'm saying that he should also work on himself and his skills. When you improve your approach conversational skills and you learn to use things like "demonstrating high value", "qualifying", and dropping "bait", you can really spark more interest and reduce flaking.

Most guys are not even aware of their mistakes while speaking. Voice, vibe, body language, topics of discussion, etc. Any of these things can cause a woman to lose attraction to you. Its important to work on your specific weaknesses.

Target selection is also very important here. I used to approach mostly 8's and 9's. Bangs were few and far between. Then I started approaching more 6's and 7's. I got more bangs.

I'm saying don't just be a number collector hoping to "get lucky". Focus on quality of approach as opposed to just quantity of approaches. I mean, approach alot of girls but don't be in a hurry, talk to them and try to get them to invest in the conversation.

That being said, we all know girls will still flake. Like you said, accept it and move on.

Post: #14

There are girls that will be into you from the outset ("YES" girls).
There are girls that won't be into you ("NO" girls).

The majority of girls you close will be "MAYBE" girls - remember, she gave you her number.

The key is to convert those "MAYBE" girls to "YES" girls. This is where tight text and phone game come into play.

Post: #15

(09-18-2011 09:24 PM)Mace Wrote:  There are girls that will be into you from the outset ("YES" girls).
There are girls that won't be into you ("NO" girls).

The majority of girls you close will be "MAYBE" girls - remember, she gave you her number.

The key is to convert those "MAYBE" girls to "YES" girls. This is where tight text and phone game come into play.

Again, I don't think so. It is decided already during the approach itself whether you can turn a Maybe-Girl into a Yes-Girl. Leave the phone stuff aside and work on your approach skills instead.

Post: #16

(09-19-2011 04:10 AM)Mighty Mouse Wrote:  Again, I don't think so. It is decided already during the approach itself whether you can turn a Maybe-Girl into a Yes-Girl. Leave the phone stuff aside and work on your approach skills instead.

This. When you're in her presence, you have the power. Once you get the number and leave, it's completely up to her whether to even respond to your texts/call in the first place. All the "text game" in the world won't help if she doesn't respond at all.

Post: #17

Gio: If a dude is checking for girls who check him, his success rate should be a hell of a lot better than 1/100. Obviously for dudes who for the most part ho chase, then ya it's a numbers game, and chance will determine if you caught the right girl at the right time.

I don't think the OP was speaking of such a scenario, which is why I said what I said. Your game is not tight if under your scenario, you're batting .010 which should cause one to re-evaluate his level of game.

My point simply was you can't control whether or not a girl picks up the phone or doesn't cancel your date or whatever, some things are out of your hands, and some reasons as to why it happens aren't indicative of your game.

Generally speaking, most of us are meeting chicks out on standard nights out (i.e. Friday, Saturday) and we're calling them on standard nights during the week (i.e. Tuesday, Wednesday). My assertion is most dudes don't make the initial impression needed or have the game to let so much time pass in between continuing the interaction.

Getting a girl's number after a light 5-10 minute banter session and then hitting her up 3 days later is often a losing strategy. In most cases, anything before 12 hours is seen as thirsty, and anything after 48 is too late.

You have to remember most of these females, have multiple men in their lives, especially when they're single aka emotionally unavailable. Initially, you mean nothing to her, so just because she gave you the phone number, doesn't mean you have her on lock.

I also think initially dudes need to be implementing phone game before text game. If you call her, she will take you serious. I keep the game real simple. We meet, I call her the next day and make plans to do something shortly after, in some cases the same day depending on the circumstances. I look at it as if I get rejected, then she was going to reject me three days from now anyway, but now I've saved some time and can move on. I think guys wait hoping to stave off rejection, and that's a bad move. The quicker you move, the better, and even if it doesn't work out, then it wasn't going to anyway.

There's no magic trick we can perform on these chicks to ensure they will reciprocate the interest we're showing them.

Post: #18

Quote:So my method is:

Day 1 - get number, text her that night "good meeting you, callback humour")
Day 2-3 - exchange texts through the day to build rapport/establish comfort
Day 4 - "text to call" & phone call
Day 5/6//7 - meet

If you can't get a meet within a week of the number-close, it's a bust - at this point she's likely forgotten what you look like.

Quote:I like it. This is very similar to the method I use, except I usually don't contact them on the same day I meet them. Unless, of course, the first approach/interaction was really, really good. I usually wait 3 days, text/chat a little, and then go for the date about a week later.

You have any idea how many guys approach even an average 5 lizard in America on a daily basis? Chances are she’s not even going to remember you after a day or so and you'll get the dreaded “Who are you?” response assuming you even get a response at all. Mighty Mouse is correct, your goal in day game should solely be to try to be good enough at it to pull an insta date or a same day meet later in the evening. Remember not only are you competing with other guys who holla at her during the day, but also with thirsty dudes who hit her up on Facebook/online, co workers, “Friends” who are still campaigning for pussy, ex boyfriends, dudes at the club, Starbucks baristas, the Mail man, etc. So the chances of you ever seeing this girl ever again are inversely proportionate to how young and hot she is. Lizards don't flake because they are inconsiderate sadistic cunts (well some of them are), they flake mostly because there are just too many dudes in their lives trying to pull them in every which way and something better just came up.

Waiting till day 5/6/7 for meet is equivalent to the old 90’s “wait 2 weeks to call her to show you aren’t thirsty” rule. I used to believe hard in this rule until I True-To-The-Game Mack laced me with some Game and told me “You wait TWO WEEKS?, nigga she can get pregnant and have an abortion in that same time period.” Thus, fuck waiting, I say text her right away and go for that meeting. If she shuts you down and flakes at least you know were you stand and can move on to the next one.

Post: #19

jariel brings ups a good point, the conventional wisdom from the game community is that it's best to wait 2-4 days when hitting a girl up after getting her number, however there is a lot of stuff that can happen in that amount of time. If you're getting a girl's number really quickly after only 5-10 mins. of conversation whether it be day or night game, you better damn well have made a great impression, or found a way to connect with her on some level, because if you're calling her 4 days later who knows how many other guys she's just met, talked to, or if she even remembers you in the first place.

Now I follow convention wisdom and I think it's a mistake to call a girl the very next day, because that will convey that you are overeager, excited, needy, desperate, etc. Right now I normally go out Friday nights and will often collect 1-2 numbers and wait till Monday (3 days) before hitting them up, waiting any longer than that would be a mistake IMHO. Maybe I will start experimenting with only waiting two days instead of three, because I agree that you want to build on that momentum.

Post: #20

I'm a big fan of the "feeler" text sent 3-4 hours after you first meet (assuming day game here). Content is something along the lines of "nice meeting you" with a joke thrown in or something that references the conversation you had with her, and then sign off with your name. This is solely to cement yourself in her memory. A response from her isn't really necessary, but if you do get one, you're sitting pretty, and can proceed to call/text the next day to set up a date. If no response, I probably wait a couple of days to call.

Post: #21

(09-19-2011 11:28 AM)OGNorCal707 Wrote:  you want to build on that momentum.

This is the key word... "Momentum"

When you get some momentum going, don't let it die down. Waiting 3-5 days to contact her can kill the momentum.

Everything just depends on how that first conversation goes. If that first conversation goes really well, maybe its okay to contact her the same night or the next day. But, be careful with this, it mostly seems needy.

If the first approach goes great, push for an "insta-date" or same day date.

If the first conversation is just okay, I will wait 3 days.

My goal in the first conversation is the make such a strong conection that the girl asks me for my number, or at least mention it first. If that happens, I might wait only 2 days.

It all just depends. If the girl and I are really laughing together, I might text her 5 minutes after I got her number to continue the jokes.

There is no perfect "formula" for how long to wait. Its an art not a science.

Post: #22

(09-19-2011 11:52 AM)Giovonny Wrote:  

(09-19-2011 11:28 AM)OGNorCal707 Wrote:  you want to build on that momentum.

This is the key word... "Momentum"

When you get some momentum going, don't let it die down. Waiting 3-5 days to contact her can kill the momentum.

Everything just depends on how that first conversation goes. If that first conversation goes really well, maybe its okay to contact her the same night or the next day. But, be careful with this, it mostly seems needy.

If the first approach goes great, push for an "insta-date" or same day date.

If the first conversation is just okay, I will wait 3 days.

My goal in the first conversation is the make such a strong conection that the girl asks me for my number, or at least mention it first. If that happens, I might wait only 2 days.

It all just depends. If the girl and I are really laughing together, I might text her 5 minutes after I got her number to continue the jokes.

There is no perfect "formula" for how long to wait. Its an art not a science.

Very well put, thanks for the bits of wisdom Gio.

Post: #23

For all the fellas in here saying your initial approach is what matters, how much genuine rapport can be built with a random stranger during a 5-10 minute street close? You can try to prolong the interacton, but she has places to go, you have places to go. Instant dates while ideal are usually not feasible.
 
It doesn't matter how charming or suave you were or how you made her feel for those 5 minutes. At the end of day she'll come home and her rationalization hamster will spin - "Ya he was cute and charming but I don't know him. He could be a serial killer." That's how college girls in America/Canada think.
 
Most girls these days are even afraid to pick up the phone. They grew up with their noses buried behind a screen. They hate awkwardness and confrontation more than anything. You can try calling her but then you're "creepy" because you're a "random" calling "randomly". They won't pick up. You've blown yourself out.
 
Texting is the only way to go. Keep the momentum from your initial interaction going. Warm them up a bit. Text game must be delivered with finesse. Be witty, cocky but playful, DHV, build rapport, sound normal, and DON'T be creepy - any hint of awkwardness will send her running. You can ask her out over text, but it looks weak and but she won't bite - she's still only known you for 5 minutes. So don't wait too long to call her. If she won't even take a call, she enjoys the attention and validation from receiving texts but she's not interested in YOU. Don't waste your time - move on.
 
In today's hyper-stimulated environment, an old school 10 minute phone conversation is effectively a Day 2. A genuine bond can develop through the phone. This is especially true today as guys today don't call, and girls today are seldom used to talking to guys on the phone.
 
I think a lot of 30+ guys in here are operating under a different paradigm, relating their experience from back in the day. Yes, once upon a time you could chat up a girl on the street, get a solid non-flaky number, call her in 3 days and have her actually pick up the phone, and set up a date. Once upon a time a number actually meant something. Those days are long gone.
 
Also some guys in here are speaking about game as they think it should be, and not as they are. Who here has spent time in the trenches? I'm relating from experience.
 
I want to hear from the cats in here doing day game on college-aged girls. What's your experience?
 

Post: #24

(09-19-2011 11:28 AM)OGNorCal707 Wrote:  Now I follow convention wisdom and I think it's a mistake to call a girl the very next day, because that will convey that you are overeager, excited, needy, desperate, etc.

Calling the same night -- unless it was stated during the initial conversation that that was part of the plan -- is seen as needy, thirsty, etc.

Calling the next day indicates you're serious (which is imperative for the "maybe" girls).

You have to remember most dudes take these girls' phone #s and don't call them at all, and then you have a portion of them who do contact them initially via text, and then you have the ones who do call but call three, four days after they got the number.

Who stands out?

Post: #25

(09-19-2011 01:32 PM)Mace Wrote:  Most girls these days are even afraid to pick up the phone. They grew up with their noses buried behind a screen. They hate awkwardness and confrontation more than anything. You can try calling her but then you're "creepy" because you're a "random" calling "randomly". They won't pick up. You've blown yourself out.
 
Texting is the only way to go.

Dude, if a girl isn't willing to talk to you on the phone, why would you even want to take her on a date?

Dudes keep talking about text game, as if they're the only ones writing these chicks. These girls get thousands of texts every day from dudes, family, friends, co-workers, etc.

I text with chicks after we're established and if something needs to be said briefly that a conversation isn't really necessary, but for some girl I don't have on lock yet, I'm not going to depend on my words on a screen to make shit pop off.

Again, if initially, a girl isn't willing to talk to me for 5-10 minutes on the phone, I can't be sure she's willing to do much else, and neither am I.

This all goes back to if a chick is down, she's down. She picks up when you call or at least calls you back after you've missed her call. She's down to link up, and if for some reason she can't, she'll give you reasonable notice, and offer to reschedule, etc. Flaking is done by chicks who aren't really down for whatever reason, and you just move on. You can't make shit happen with every chick you want just because you want it, it takes two to tango.