Post: #76

I believe the whole Metoo campaign is a natural reflex to the out of control hook up culture. A lot of feminists hold puritanical values, it is just that feminism is the only sound piece that talks about such issues, so they latch on to it. Ironically enough we are going back to the time, when big daddy regulated sexual interactions. However in this case, big daddy is not a biological human father but the government.

Post: #77

(01-15-2018 11:38 AM)Fisto Wrote:  Cobra- you keep saying “IRT” not me. I didn’t say it once.

I said you’re defending a gameless Indian, which you are.

You didn't say IRT but said gameless Indian. The two are interchangeable for the most part dude. Although all gameless Indians are not IRTs. They are instead soy boy liberal betas. And, for the millionth time, maybe you will catch it this time, but I wasn't defending him. Rather defending what his fuckup as a man represents in today's female centered society. Many others in this thread are doing the same, but you want to earn brownie points by attacking my posts individually. That's fine dude. I won't stop you. It's entertaining.

(01-15-2018 11:38 AM)Fisto Wrote:  In fact, go reread what you wrote entirely, you said word for word that guys on this thread who were focusing on the lack of game instead of how Asnari was being falsely are the same as liberals and women.

Come on Fisto; for the amount of dissent you're trying to dish out, I expected more. I hate to do this but here is what I said word for word

Quote:So I really don't get how the thread is focusing on lack of game rather than the "fake sexual assault allegation" this really is. It would be nice to separate the two so we don't eat our own (men). That's what the liberals and women do.

To take this and turn it into me explicitly calling members liberals and women? I was making a philosophical point to draw light to the theme of the thread thus far being more focused on his fuckup rather than the woman's allegation, not being accusatory of certain members and certainly not for the purpose of defending this dude. That, at this point, should be crystal clear, yet fully lost on you. Not sure what else I can say.

(01-15-2018 11:38 AM)Fisto Wrote:  You’re also the one claiming it hurts all men so we should all more or less be behind Asnari since he’s being falsely accused. This is why I said if you want to be an advocate for men you should be focused on learning the lessons from his lack of game.

I have been a staunch advocate for Indian men WITH game. I do believe you know that. I also believe you are using what you know here to extrapolate it and shamelessly turn it into my "defense" of him when I clearly started off saying he is a taint on Indian-American men. Of course, again, you shamelessly "exclude" this because it supports your point. When I said that I wasn't trying to turn it into a race thread but rather offering my opinion about how cringe worthy him and his game are to what I identify with.

I just knew from your tone that you were trying to prove something else, which is why you keep missing the obvious. And of course.....

(01-15-2018 11:38 AM)Fisto Wrote:  Re me, I just want the one group of people that has a large conservative base to unfuck the country and take control of this shit show. That group of people happens to be white and under constant attack and I’m tired of hearing about it.

If another group of people can make a significant change towards conservatism then great but as for now the future of this country rests on whites getting red pilled and fast.

Here it is! This right here is the reason behind your rants. I'm glad you're at least being honest. You're pissed because the country is fucked and decide to project that on to me because I decided to defend men in a thread with a gameless Indian guy. I also happen to be Indian. I guess then you have a recipe for a sneaky race rant. Well, newsflash. This is as much my country as it is yours. I don't care if you think otherwise since my skin color is brown.

Whites in this country created the liberal problem. The reason this country is a social justice paradise is because of this. So yes, it's your community's fuckup. I applaud you for wanting to unfuck it. That said, there are guys like me that white guys fucked it up for as well. I have enough cucks in my own community that make me look bad and don't need liberal cuckhood on top of that to make it worse while I'm making America great again.

The country doesn't rest on whites getting red pilled; whites fucked it up in the first place and continue to get blue pilled instead. It rests on red pilled men of all races to come in and unfuck the problem liberal white men and women created. You want to sit in a silo and claim only whites can fix it? I've been hearing this for years right now while my country gets raped by left wing loons of all colors that seem to go higher in numbers. You're running out of conservative white men because they turn to soy, faggotry and other degeneracies created by lack of parenting and red pill values. Another poster said this, but I'll gladly trade the degenerates and liberal pussy hats for conservative immigrants from ANY country. Maybe that's a solution but I certainly don't think ONLY white ethnocentrists can fix it. That ship has sailed.

Post: #78

(01-15-2018 03:01 PM)ComebackKid Wrote:  

(01-14-2018 10:49 AM)Cobra Wrote:  Aziz Ansari's gamelessness aside, the chick went up to his apartment and was surprised he wanted to have sex, then had sex with him anyways and then complains the next day about how he did it.

So I really don't get how the thread is focusing on lack of game rather than the "fake sexual assault allegation" this really is. It would be nice to separate the two so we don't eat our own (men). That's what the liberals and women do.

I think Aziz is a hapless beta and likely a taint on Indian-American men. However he gets poon because of fame and that's still poon. When he gets a fake accusation, it's still a fake accusation against a fellow man.

I disagree with the bolded part. In this case the context and who he is matters.

Quoting Newsweek:
"Ansari has been a supporter of the Time’s Up movement, which aims to eliminate sexual misconduct, and wore a pin emblazoned with the campaign’s name at this year’s Golden Globe awards. He has also built his comedic career upon focusing on issues of race and sexual consent, earning him the title of a Refinery29 “certified woke bae” in 2016."

I do not consider him to be a man. He lost that card when he supported false and ridiculous allegations against other men. He deserves every second of this.

I see your point and agree but my point was that what he did still counts as a hit on us because while we see him as a pussy, the MSM uses it as an incident to paint all men as rapists. I also don't consider him to be a man personally.

Post: #79

(01-15-2018 11:00 AM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  

(01-15-2018 12:57 AM)Cobra Wrote:  Not sure where I implied anything of the sort. I just called you out for telling me I'm defending a liberal American soy boy that, come to think of it, doesn't even qualify as an IRT except for the fact that he's brown. This reject is the western creation of white liberals, women and fags that originated in this country. I'm going to denounce him as such. You can have him.

Of course he is a product of liberal soy. He works in Hollywood. High soy level is a prerequisite. The only person bringing up him being Indian was you. You don't need to accept or denounce anyone. No one assumed you were related.

Yeah I brought him up in my OP to denounce him as a taint to the Indian-American community. Then Fisto said I was defending a gameless Indian. Not hard to see where the disconnect is. If I were you, I would give it a rest.

Post: #80

(01-15-2018 08:09 PM)Cobra Wrote:  Yeah I brought him up in my OP to denounce him as a taint to the Indian-American community. Then Fisto said I was defending a gameless Indian. Not hard to see where the disconnect is. If I were you, I would give it a rest.

You're not me and I will decide when to give something a rest. You continue bringing up Indian ethnicity into discussions and then blame others for responding.

Next you will be calling people racists which happens to be a liberal and woman thang to do. You're damn close to it with your response to Fisto.

Give it a break. You're not responsible for Indians. If Indian-Americans are voting predominantly liberal, they are not conservative. In any case, it isn't your cross to bear.

Post: #81

(01-15-2018 03:13 PM)eradicator Wrote:  

Quote:It's pretty difficult to sue for libel if you're a celebrity. But if this guy's income is hit, he might have a case. If it were me, I'd drag her through the courts until she was penniless from lawyer's fees and mentally exhausted to the point of breakdown.

Someone needs to do this to one of these women or every man's personal history is going to be public knowledge everywhere.

I’m not a lawyer but who is Aziz going to sue here? The girl used a fake name with the website. I guess he can sue the sites calling him an alleged rapist? All they have to do is put the word “alleged” in there and they are covered I think?

He could sue the media site here, "babe," and say they made a bunch of unsubstantiated, anonymous claims that destroyed his livelihood.

Anyone can print something from an "anonymous" source, so in my opinion, this media company is on shaky ground. Let's put it another way.

Let's say I reported that an anonymous source claimed that Mariah Carey likes to drink her own urine and that caused a major drop-off in concert and CD sales, plus humiliation in front of her kids.

Well, it seems to me there is some sort of lawsuit in there. I'm no lawyer, but this seems far outside the bounds of what's allowable.

By the way, celebrities can win such lawsuits even it's hard for them to win libel suits because they're public figures. Rebel Wilson won a big one recently in Australia and I don't think what was said about her comes close to what we're discussing here.

Post: #82

Quote:Cobra- you keep saying “IRT” not me. I didn’t say it once.

Besides, "IRT" sounds so very 2013.

P O O I N L O O
O
O
I
N
L
O
O

is much funnier.

Post: #83

Im starting to see occasional signs of cracks in the lunacy and a return to reason leaking through.

Aziz Ansari Guilty. Of Not Being A Mind Reader NY Times

Quote:I’m apparently the victim of sexual assault. And if you’re a sexually active woman in the 21st century, chances are that you are, too.

That is what I learned from the “exposé” of Aziz Ansari published this weekend by the feminist website Babe — arguably the worst thing that has happened to the #MeToo movement since it began in October. It transforms what ought to be a movement for women’s empowerment into an emblem for female helplessness.

The headline primes the reader to gird for the very worst: “I went on a date with Aziz Ansari. It turned into the worst night of my life.” Like everyone else, I clicked.

The victim in this 3,000-word story is called “Grace” — not her real name — and her saga with Mr. Ansari began at a 2017 Emmys after-party. As recounted by Grace to the reporter Katie Way, she approached him, but he brushed her off at first. Then they bonded over their devotion to the same vintage camera.

Grace was at the party with someone else, but she and Mr. Ansari exchanged numbers and soon arranged a date in Manhattan.

After arriving at his TriBeCa apartment on the appointed evening — she was “excited,” having carefully chosen her outfit after consulting with friends — they exchanged small talk and drank wine. “It was white,” she said. “I didn’t get to choose and I prefer red, but it was white wine.” Yes, we are apparently meant to read into the nonconsensual wine choice.

They went out to dinner nearby and then returned home to Mr. Ansari’s apartment. As Grace tells it, the actor was far too eager to get back to his place after he paid for dinner: “Like, he got the check and then it was bada-boom, bada-bing, we’re out of there.” Another sign of his apparent boorishness.

Grace complimented Mr. Ansari’s kitchen countertops. The actor then made a move, asking her to sit on the counter. They started kissing. He undressed her and then himself.

In the 30 or so minutes that followed — recounted beat by cringe-inducing beat — they hooked up. Mr. Ansari persistently tried to have penetrative sex with her, and Grace says she was deeply uncomfortable throughout. At various points, she told the reporter, she attempted to voice her hesitation, and that Mr. Ansari ignored her signals.

At last, she uttered the word “no” for the first time during their encounter, to Mr. Ansari’s suggestion that they have sex in front of a mirror. He said: “‘How about we just chill, but this time with our clothes on?’”

They got dressed, sat on the couch and watched “Seinfeld.” She said to him: “You guys are all the same.” He called her an Uber. She cried on the way home. Fin.

If you are wondering what about this evening constituted the “worst night” of Grace’s life, or why it is being framed as a #MeToo story by a feminist website, you probably feel as confused as Mr. Ansari did the next day. “It was fun meeting you last night,” he texted.

“Last night might’ve been fun for you, but it wasn’t for me,” she responded. “You ignored clear nonverbal cues; you kept going with advances. You had to have noticed I was uncomfortable.” He replied with an apology.

Read Grace’s text message again.

Put in other words: I am angry that you weren’t able to read my mind.

It is worth carefully studying Grace’s story. Encoded in it are new yet deeply retrograde ideas about what constitutes consent — and what constitutes sexual violence.

Sign Up for the Opinion Today Newsletter
Every weekday, get thought-provoking commentary from Op-Ed columnists, the Times editorial board and contributing writers from around the world.

Sign Up
SEE SAMPLE PRIVACY POLICY OPT OUT OR CONTACT US ANYTIME
We are told by the reporter that Grace “says she used verbal and nonverbal cues to indicate how uncomfortable and distressed she was.” She adds that “whether Ansari didn’t notice Grace’s reticence or knowingly ignored it is impossible for her to say.” We are told that “he wouldn’t let her move away from him,” in the encounter.

Yet Mr. Ansari, in a statement responding to Grace’s story, said that “by all indications” the encounter was “completely consensual.”

I am a proud feminist, and this is what I thought while reading Grace’s story:

If you are hanging out naked with a man, it’s safe to assume he is going to try to have sex with you.

If the inability to choose a pinot noir over a pinot grigio offends you, you can leave right then and there.

If you don’t like the way your date hustles through paying the check, you can say, “I’ve had a lovely evening and I’m going home now.”

If you go home with him and discover he’s a terrible kisser, say “I’m out.”

If you start to hook up and don’t like the way he smells or the way he talks (or doesn’t talk), end it.

If he pressures you to do something you don’t want to do, use a four-letter word, stand up on your two legs and walk out his door.

Aziz Ansari sounds like he was aggressive and selfish and obnoxious that night. Isn’t it heartbreaking and depressing that men — especially ones who present themselves publicly as feminists — so often act this way in private? Shouldn’t we try to change our broken sexual culture? And isn’t it enraging that women are socialized to be docile and accommodating and to put men’s desires before their own? Yes. Yes. Yes.

But the solution to these problems does not begin with women torching men for failing to understand their “nonverbal cues.” It is for women to be more verbal. It’s to say: “This is what turns me on.” It’s to say “I don’t want to do that.” And, yes, sometimes it means saying piss off.

The single most distressing thing to me about Grace’s story is that the only person with any agency in the story seems to be Aziz Ansari. Grace is merely acted upon.

All of this put me in mind of another piece published this weekend, this one by the novelist and feminist icon Margaret Atwood. “My fundamental position is that women are human beings,” she writes. “Nor do I believe that women are children, incapable of agency or of making moral decisions. If they were, we’re back to the 19th century, and women should not own property, have credit cards, have access to higher education, control their own reproduction or vote. There are powerful groups in North America pushing this agenda, but they are not usually considered feminists.”

Except, increasingly, they are.

Grace’s story was met with so many digital hosannas by young feminists, who insisted that consent is only consent if it is affirmative, active, continuous and — and this is the word most used — enthusiastic. Consent isn’t the only thing they are radically redefining. A recent survey by The Economist/YouGov found that approximately 25 percent of millennial-age American women think asking someone for a drink is harassment. More than a third say that if a man compliments a woman’s looks it is harassment.

To judge from social media reaction to Grace’s story, they also see a flagrant abuse of power in this sexual encounter. Yes, Mr. Ansari is a wealthy celebrity with a Netflix show. But he had no actual power over Grace — professionally or otherwise. And lumping him in with the same movement that brought down men who ran movie studios and forced themselves on actresses, or the factory floor supervisors who demanded sex from women workers, trivializes what #MeToo first stood for.

I’m sorry Grace had this experience. I too have had lousy romantic encounters, as has every adult woman I know. I have regretted these encounters, and not said anything at all. And I have regretted them and said so, like Grace did. And I know I am lucky that these unpleasant moments were far from being anything approaching assault or rape, or even the worst night of my life.

But the response to Grace’s story makes me think that many of my fellow feminists might insist that my experience was just that, and for me to define it otherwise is nothing more than my internalized misogyny.

There is a useful term for what Grace experienced on her night with Mr. Ansari. It’s called “bad sex.” It sucks.

The feminist answer is to push for a culture in which boys and young men are taught that sex does not have to be pursued like they’re in a porn film, and one in which girls and young women are empowered to be bolder, braver and louder about what they want. The insidious attempt by some women to criminalize awkward, gross and entitled sex takes women back to the days of smelling salts and fainting couches. That’s somewhere I, for one, don’t want to go.

Post: #84

(01-15-2018 08:35 PM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  Im starting to see occasional signs of cracks in the lunacy and a return to reason leaking through.

Aziz Ansari Guilty. Of Not Being A Mind Reader NY Times

Quote:I’m apparently the victim of sexual assault. And if you’re a sexually active woman in the 21st century, chances are that you are, too.

That is what I learned from the “exposé” of Aziz Ansari published this weekend by the feminist website Babe — arguably the worst thing that has happened to the #MeToo movement since it began in October. It transforms what ought to be a movement for women’s empowerment into an emblem for female helplessness.

The headline primes the reader to gird for the very worst: “I went on a date with Aziz Ansari. It turned into the worst night of my life.” Like everyone else, I clicked.

The victim in this 3,000-word story is called “Grace” — not her real name — and her saga with Mr. Ansari began at a 2017 Emmys after-party. As recounted by Grace to the reporter Katie Way, she approached him, but he brushed her off at first. Then they bonded over their devotion to the same vintage camera.

Grace was at the party with someone else, but she and Mr. Ansari exchanged numbers and soon arranged a date in Manhattan.

After arriving at his TriBeCa apartment on the appointed evening — she was “excited,” having carefully chosen her outfit after consulting with friends — they exchanged small talk and drank wine. “It was white,” she said. “I didn’t get to choose and I prefer red, but it was white wine.” Yes, we are apparently meant to read into the nonconsensual wine choice.

They went out to dinner nearby and then returned home to Mr. Ansari’s apartment. As Grace tells it, the actor was far too eager to get back to his place after he paid for dinner: “Like, he got the check and then it was bada-boom, bada-bing, we’re out of there.” Another sign of his apparent boorishness.

Grace complimented Mr. Ansari’s kitchen countertops. The actor then made a move, asking her to sit on the counter. They started kissing. He undressed her and then himself.

In the 30 or so minutes that followed — recounted beat by cringe-inducing beat — they hooked up. Mr. Ansari persistently tried to have penetrative sex with her, and Grace says she was deeply uncomfortable throughout. At various points, she told the reporter, she attempted to voice her hesitation, and that Mr. Ansari ignored her signals.

At last, she uttered the word “no” for the first time during their encounter, to Mr. Ansari’s suggestion that they have sex in front of a mirror. He said: “‘How about we just chill, but this time with our clothes on?’”

They got dressed, sat on the couch and watched “Seinfeld.” She said to him: “You guys are all the same.” He called her an Uber. She cried on the way home. Fin.

If you are wondering what about this evening constituted the “worst night” of Grace’s life, or why it is being framed as a #MeToo story by a feminist website, you probably feel as confused as Mr. Ansari did the next day. “It was fun meeting you last night,” he texted.

“Last night might’ve been fun for you, but it wasn’t for me,” she responded. “You ignored clear nonverbal cues; you kept going with advances. You had to have noticed I was uncomfortable.” He replied with an apology.

Read Grace’s text message again.

Put in other words: I am angry that you weren’t able to read my mind.

It is worth carefully studying Grace’s story. Encoded in it are new yet deeply retrograde ideas about what constitutes consent — and what constitutes sexual violence.

Sign Up for the Opinion Today Newsletter
Every weekday, get thought-provoking commentary from Op-Ed columnists, the Times editorial board and contributing writers from around the world.

Sign Up
SEE SAMPLE PRIVACY POLICY OPT OUT OR CONTACT US ANYTIME
We are told by the reporter that Grace “says she used verbal and nonverbal cues to indicate how uncomfortable and distressed she was.” She adds that “whether Ansari didn’t notice Grace’s reticence or knowingly ignored it is impossible for her to say.” We are told that “he wouldn’t let her move away from him,” in the encounter.

Yet Mr. Ansari, in a statement responding to Grace’s story, said that “by all indications” the encounter was “completely consensual.”

I am a proud feminist, and this is what I thought while reading Grace’s story:

If you are hanging out naked with a man, it’s safe to assume he is going to try to have sex with you.

If the inability to choose a pinot noir over a pinot grigio offends you, you can leave right then and there.

If you don’t like the way your date hustles through paying the check, you can say, “I’ve had a lovely evening and I’m going home now.”

If you go home with him and discover he’s a terrible kisser, say “I’m out.”

If you start to hook up and don’t like the way he smells or the way he talks (or doesn’t talk), end it.

If he pressures you to do something you don’t want to do, use a four-letter word, stand up on your two legs and walk out his door.

Aziz Ansari sounds like he was aggressive and selfish and obnoxious that night. Isn’t it heartbreaking and depressing that men — especially ones who present themselves publicly as feminists — so often act this way in private? Shouldn’t we try to change our broken sexual culture? And isn’t it enraging that women are socialized to be docile and accommodating and to put men’s desires before their own? Yes. Yes. Yes.

But the solution to these problems does not begin with women torching men for failing to understand their “nonverbal cues.” It is for women to be more verbal. It’s to say: “This is what turns me on.” It’s to say “I don’t want to do that.” And, yes, sometimes it means saying piss off.

The single most distressing thing to me about Grace’s story is that the only person with any agency in the story seems to be Aziz Ansari. Grace is merely acted upon.

All of this put me in mind of another piece published this weekend, this one by the novelist and feminist icon Margaret Atwood. “My fundamental position is that women are human beings,” she writes. “Nor do I believe that women are children, incapable of agency or of making moral decisions. If they were, we’re back to the 19th century, and women should not own property, have credit cards, have access to higher education, control their own reproduction or vote. There are powerful groups in North America pushing this agenda, but they are not usually considered feminists.”

Except, increasingly, they are.

Grace’s story was met with so many digital hosannas by young feminists, who insisted that consent is only consent if it is affirmative, active, continuous and — and this is the word most used — enthusiastic. Consent isn’t the only thing they are radically redefining. A recent survey by The Economist/YouGov found that approximately 25 percent of millennial-age American women think asking someone for a drink is harassment. More than a third say that if a man compliments a woman’s looks it is harassment.

To judge from social media reaction to Grace’s story, they also see a flagrant abuse of power in this sexual encounter. Yes, Mr. Ansari is a wealthy celebrity with a Netflix show. But he had no actual power over Grace — professionally or otherwise. And lumping him in with the same movement that brought down men who ran movie studios and forced themselves on actresses, or the factory floor supervisors who demanded sex from women workers, trivializes what #MeToo first stood for.

I’m sorry Grace had this experience. I too have had lousy romantic encounters, as has every adult woman I know. I have regretted these encounters, and not said anything at all. And I have regretted them and said so, like Grace did. And I know I am lucky that these unpleasant moments were far from being anything approaching assault or rape, or even the worst night of my life.

But the response to Grace’s story makes me think that many of my fellow feminists might insist that my experience was just that, and for me to define it otherwise is nothing more than my internalized misogyny.

There is a useful term for what Grace experienced on her night with Mr. Ansari. It’s called “bad sex.” It sucks.

The feminist answer is to push for a culture in which boys and young men are taught that sex does not have to be pursued like they’re in a porn film, and one in which girls and young women are empowered to be bolder, braver and louder about what they want. The insidious attempt by some women to criminalize awkward, gross and entitled sex takes women back to the days of smelling salts and fainting couches. That’s somewhere I, for one, don’t want to go.

This might signal a turning point. It's a Jewish woman, Bari Weiss, writing in the New York Times and siding with the accused, not the pseudo-feminist accusing him.

She's also getting crap for it on Twitter. Liberals are telling her to "stop writing." Have you ever noticed these people can't ever articulate a cogent counter-argument and can only say things like "Delete your account" and "Stop writing?"

https://twitter.com/bariweiss?ref_src=tw...r%5Eauthor

Post: #85

Cobra - you know good and well it was your fellow IRT Agastaya that made the ridiculous argument about trading white liberals for conservative browns. You apparently missed what Enigma pointed out, which is that you and your fellow street shitters voted for Hillary by 80% (the other 20% probably don’t shit in the street).

Therefore it would seem saving the country means stopping you people from coming in droves on H1B visas.

You keep implying you have some great game. I really doubt that but way to go. You don’t need to keep telling me.

My original point and answer to your question about why we are focusing on the lack of game instead of the false accusation stands: learning from Aznari’s mistakes is a learning opportunity, while just crying “but that’s not fair he was falsely accused” helps no one.

I’m putting you on ignore and will not be replying further since you have clearly lost the plot.

Edit - you are being called an IRT because you keep bringing up Indian this and brown that at every turn.

Post: #86

Also in the Washington Post, how Babe's article was a gift to anyone trying to derail #metoo:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/act-...2733a48095

Quote:It is about a date that went badly, one that did not live up to the expectations of the woman involved. Consider, for instance, the inclusion of this paragraph in the story: “After arriving at his apartment in Manhattan on Monday evening, they exchanged small talk and drank wine. ‘It was white,’ she said. ‘I didn’t get to choose and I prefer red, but it was white wine.’ Then Ansari walked her to Grand Banks, an Oyster bar on board a historic wooden schooner on the Hudson River just a few blocks away.”

The aside about the white/red wine is something that any writer or editor who truly understood the stakes of this story would have taken out of the piece. It makes the subject appear silly, if not bitter or resentful. I honestly thought for a moment that I might be reading a parody after that line: There’s no grander point about consent in this anecdote — if she had asked for white and he had laughed at her and said no and forced her to drink red, well, okay, maybe that would fit a piece like the one we are reading. This isn’t that. It’s simply out of place in a piece that should have immense gravity.

...

I would suggest there’s a reason this story appeared in babe, rather than the New York Times or BuzzFeed or the Los Angeles Times or, yes, The Washington Post. One of the reasons is that, however Grace now thinks of the encounter, what happened isn’t sexual assault or anything close to it by most legal or common-sense standards. And bad dates — including terrible ones that leave one person feeling humiliated — aren’t actually newsworthy, even when they happen to famous people.

Post: #87

(01-15-2018 08:48 PM)Fisto Wrote:  Cobra - you know good and well it was your fellow IRT Agastaya that made the ridiculous argument about trading white liberals for conservative browns. You apparently missed what Enigma pointed out, which is that you and your fellow street shitters voted for Hillary by 80% (the other 20% probably don’t shit in the street).

Therefore it would seem saving the country means stopping you people from coming in droves on H1B visas.

You keep implying you have some great game. I really doubt that but way to go. You don’t need to keep telling me.

My original point and answer to your question about why we are focusing on the lack of game instead of the false accusation stands: learning from Aznari’s mistakes is a learning opportunity, while just crying “but that’s not fair he was falsely accused” helps no one.

I’m putting you on ignore and will not be replying further since you have clearly lost the plot.

Edit - you are being called an IRT because you keep bringing up Indian this and brown that at every turn.

Loses argument. Loses shit! Calls a bunch of people names because of their race and pretty much just gives up because he can't have a rational argument. I'm not sure Agastya needed to be brought into this and called names when he wasn't even part of the thread; and neither does an entire race need to be ridiculed. I just reported him for hating. Expected more from a 197+ rep "player."

Post: #88

Heh.
If they can't handle a dating a SoyBoy "ally".
I highly doubt they'll be able to handle the day to day administration & logistics of a supposed 'grand matriarchy'.

Post: #89

I'm purposefully not spending any brain power on analyzing this instance, cause I don't want by brain to snap...

Post: #90

(01-15-2018 08:43 PM)Days of Broken Arrows Wrote:  

(01-15-2018 08:35 PM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  Im starting to see occasional signs of cracks in the lunacy and a return to reason leaking through.

Aziz Ansari Guilty. Of Not Being A Mind Reader NY Times

Quote:I’m apparently the victim of sexual assault. And if you’re a sexually active woman in the 21st century, chances are that you are, too.

That is what I learned from the “exposé” of Aziz Ansari published this weekend by the feminist website Babe — arguably the worst thing that has happened to the #MeToo movement since it began in October. It transforms what ought to be a movement for women’s empowerment into an emblem for female helplessness.

The headline primes the reader to gird for the very worst: “I went on a date with Aziz Ansari. It turned into the worst night of my life.” Like everyone else, I clicked.

The victim in this 3,000-word story is called “Grace” — not her real name — and her saga with Mr. Ansari began at a 2017 Emmys after-party. As recounted by Grace to the reporter Katie Way, she approached him, but he brushed her off at first. Then they bonded over their devotion to the same vintage camera.

Grace was at the party with someone else, but she and Mr. Ansari exchanged numbers and soon arranged a date in Manhattan.

After arriving at his TriBeCa apartment on the appointed evening — she was “excited,” having carefully chosen her outfit after consulting with friends — they exchanged small talk and drank wine. “It was white,” she said. “I didn’t get to choose and I prefer red, but it was white wine.” Yes, we are apparently meant to read into the nonconsensual wine choice.

They went out to dinner nearby and then returned home to Mr. Ansari’s apartment. As Grace tells it, the actor was far too eager to get back to his place after he paid for dinner: “Like, he got the check and then it was bada-boom, bada-bing, we’re out of there.” Another sign of his apparent boorishness.

Grace complimented Mr. Ansari’s kitchen countertops. The actor then made a move, asking her to sit on the counter. They started kissing. He undressed her and then himself.

In the 30 or so minutes that followed — recounted beat by cringe-inducing beat — they hooked up. Mr. Ansari persistently tried to have penetrative sex with her, and Grace says she was deeply uncomfortable throughout. At various points, she told the reporter, she attempted to voice her hesitation, and that Mr. Ansari ignored her signals.

At last, she uttered the word “no” for the first time during their encounter, to Mr. Ansari’s suggestion that they have sex in front of a mirror. He said: “‘How about we just chill, but this time with our clothes on?’”

They got dressed, sat on the couch and watched “Seinfeld.” She said to him: “You guys are all the same.” He called her an Uber. She cried on the way home. Fin.

If you are wondering what about this evening constituted the “worst night” of Grace’s life, or why it is being framed as a #MeToo story by a feminist website, you probably feel as confused as Mr. Ansari did the next day. “It was fun meeting you last night,” he texted.

“Last night might’ve been fun for you, but it wasn’t for me,” she responded. “You ignored clear nonverbal cues; you kept going with advances. You had to have noticed I was uncomfortable.” He replied with an apology.

Read Grace’s text message again.

Put in other words: I am angry that you weren’t able to read my mind.

It is worth carefully studying Grace’s story. Encoded in it are new yet deeply retrograde ideas about what constitutes consent — and what constitutes sexual violence.

Sign Up for the Opinion Today Newsletter
Every weekday, get thought-provoking commentary from Op-Ed columnists, the Times editorial board and contributing writers from around the world.

Sign Up
SEE SAMPLE PRIVACY POLICY OPT OUT OR CONTACT US ANYTIME
We are told by the reporter that Grace “says she used verbal and nonverbal cues to indicate how uncomfortable and distressed she was.” She adds that “whether Ansari didn’t notice Grace’s reticence or knowingly ignored it is impossible for her to say.” We are told that “he wouldn’t let her move away from him,” in the encounter.

Yet Mr. Ansari, in a statement responding to Grace’s story, said that “by all indications” the encounter was “completely consensual.”

I am a proud feminist, and this is what I thought while reading Grace’s story:

If you are hanging out naked with a man, it’s safe to assume he is going to try to have sex with you.

If the inability to choose a pinot noir over a pinot grigio offends you, you can leave right then and there.

If you don’t like the way your date hustles through paying the check, you can say, “I’ve had a lovely evening and I’m going home now.”

If you go home with him and discover he’s a terrible kisser, say “I’m out.”

If you start to hook up and don’t like the way he smells or the way he talks (or doesn’t talk), end it.

If he pressures you to do something you don’t want to do, use a four-letter word, stand up on your two legs and walk out his door.

Aziz Ansari sounds like he was aggressive and selfish and obnoxious that night. Isn’t it heartbreaking and depressing that men — especially ones who present themselves publicly as feminists — so often act this way in private? Shouldn’t we try to change our broken sexual culture? And isn’t it enraging that women are socialized to be docile and accommodating and to put men’s desires before their own? Yes. Yes. Yes.

But the solution to these problems does not begin with women torching men for failing to understand their “nonverbal cues.” It is for women to be more verbal. It’s to say: “This is what turns me on.” It’s to say “I don’t want to do that.” And, yes, sometimes it means saying piss off.

The single most distressing thing to me about Grace’s story is that the only person with any agency in the story seems to be Aziz Ansari. Grace is merely acted upon.

All of this put me in mind of another piece published this weekend, this one by the novelist and feminist icon Margaret Atwood. “My fundamental position is that women are human beings,” she writes. “Nor do I believe that women are children, incapable of agency or of making moral decisions. If they were, we’re back to the 19th century, and women should not own property, have credit cards, have access to higher education, control their own reproduction or vote. There are powerful groups in North America pushing this agenda, but they are not usually considered feminists.”

Except, increasingly, they are.

Grace’s story was met with so many digital hosannas by young feminists, who insisted that consent is only consent if it is affirmative, active, continuous and — and this is the word most used — enthusiastic. Consent isn’t the only thing they are radically redefining. A recent survey by The Economist/YouGov found that approximately 25 percent of millennial-age American women think asking someone for a drink is harassment. More than a third say that if a man compliments a woman’s looks it is harassment.

To judge from social media reaction to Grace’s story, they also see a flagrant abuse of power in this sexual encounter. Yes, Mr. Ansari is a wealthy celebrity with a Netflix show. But he had no actual power over Grace — professionally or otherwise. And lumping him in with the same movement that brought down men who ran movie studios and forced themselves on actresses, or the factory floor supervisors who demanded sex from women workers, trivializes what #MeToo first stood for.

I’m sorry Grace had this experience. I too have had lousy romantic encounters, as has every adult woman I know. I have regretted these encounters, and not said anything at all. And I have regretted them and said so, like Grace did. And I know I am lucky that these unpleasant moments were far from being anything approaching assault or rape, or even the worst night of my life.

But the response to Grace’s story makes me think that many of my fellow feminists might insist that my experience was just that, and for me to define it otherwise is nothing more than my internalized misogyny.

There is a useful term for what Grace experienced on her night with Mr. Ansari. It’s called “bad sex.” It sucks.

The feminist answer is to push for a culture in which boys and young men are taught that sex does not have to be pursued like they’re in a porn film, and one in which girls and young women are empowered to be bolder, braver and louder about what they want. The insidious attempt by some women to criminalize awkward, gross and entitled sex takes women back to the days of smelling salts and fainting couches. That’s somewhere I, for one, don’t want to go.

This might signal a turning point. It's a Jewish woman, Bari Weiss, writing in the New York Times and siding with the accused, not the pseudo-feminist accusing him.

She's also getting crap for it on Twitter. Liberals are telling her to "stop writing." Have you ever noticed these people can't ever articulate a cogent counter-argument and can only say things like "Delete your account" and "Stop writing?"

https://twitter.com/bariweiss?ref_src=tw...r%5Eauthor

I want to believe in it's good faith but the cynical side of me thinks they're trying to cut off the looney's from killing the most effective golden goose they've ever had.

EDIT: The author is genuine and its a well written piece.

Punching left kills the efficacy of what they're doing.

We'll see what happens when Vince Vaughn or someone more right leaning gets hit with a claim.

Until them, I'm assuming they're circling the wagons because Aziz is more important than some thot from Brooklyn.

Post: #91

"Revenge porn."

Interesting way of looking at it.

Post: #92

Does this sound familiar?

Quote:Public support and belief in the trials began to wane for several reasons. Respected ministers started to believe that some innocent people were being accused and executed for witchcraft primarily on unreliable spectral evidence. As the Reverend Increase Mather stated, "It were better than ten suspected witches should escape than one innocent person should be condemned." Also, as the accusations mounted, persons from all walks of life--rich and poor, beggar and merchant--were being accused. Additionally, the accused that originally confessed to witchcraft requested to recant their former confessions. With public confidence in the trials slipping, the cries of the afflicted were steadily ignored, and the accusations eventually stopped. .

That was the end of the Salem Witch Trials

I'm hopeful that "The Great Penis Panic" of the early 21st century has peaked and is on the wane

Post: #93

Quote:I'm assuming they're circling the wagons because Aziz is more important than some thot from Brooklyn.

Brown Muslims are near the top of the "progressive stack". On top of that he's a libshit media star.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/06/26/op...amily.html

NY Times Wrote:Aziz Ansari: Why Trump Makes Me Scared for My Family

Post: #94

(01-14-2018 12:19 PM)the1element Wrote:  harassment aside, someone needs to teach this motherfucker how to smile without looking like a fucking eager beaver.

Droop the eyes....

Not like this



Lower them lids.

You're not wrong but I expect it's a bit more difficult when you've just railed a bunch of cocaine.

Post: #95

(01-15-2018 11:37 PM)Sisyphus Wrote:  

(01-14-2018 12:19 PM)the1element Wrote:  harassment aside, someone needs to teach this motherfucker how to smile without looking like a fucking eager beaver.

Droop the eyes....

Not like this



Lower them lids.

You're not wrong but I expect it's a bit more difficult when you've just railed a bunch of cocaine.

Probably the only thing he’s been railing lately. Jesus, what a stare...

Post: #96

(01-15-2018 08:48 PM)Fisto Wrote:  Cobra - you know good and well it was your fellow IRT Agastaya that made the ridiculous argument about trading white liberals for conservative browns. You apparently missed what Enigma pointed out, which is that you and your fellow street shitters voted for Hillary by 80% (the other 20% probably don’t shit in the street).

Therefore it would seem saving the country means stopping you people from coming in droves on H1B visas.

You keep implying you have some great game. I really doubt that but way to go. You don’t need to keep telling me.

My original point and answer to your question about why we are focusing on the lack of game instead of the false accusation stands: learning from Aznari’s mistakes is a learning opportunity, while just crying “but that’s not fair he was falsely accused” helps no one.

I’m putting you on ignore and will not be replying further since you have clearly lost the plot.

Edit - you are being called an IRT because you keep bringing up Indian this and brown that at every turn.

Someone says Aziz shouldn't have been falsely accused (a fact), and you respond by calling an entire race of people street shitters?

I doubt you would have had the balls to say something similar about black people.

And isn't your step mother Indian?

Utterly hypocritical and pathetic.

Post: #97

(01-16-2018 01:41 AM)Agastya Wrote:  

(01-15-2018 08:48 PM)Fisto Wrote:  Cobra - you know good and well it was your fellow IRT Agastaya that made the ridiculous argument about trading white liberals for conservative browns. You apparently missed what Enigma pointed out, which is that you and your fellow street shitters voted for Hillary by 80% (the other 20% probably don’t shit in the street).

Therefore it would seem saving the country means stopping you people from coming in droves on H1B visas.

You keep implying you have some great game. I really doubt that but way to go. You don’t need to keep telling me.

My original point and answer to your question about why we are focusing on the lack of game instead of the false accusation stands: learning from Aznari’s mistakes is a learning opportunity, while just crying “but that’s not fair he was falsely accused” helps no one.

I’m putting you on ignore and will not be replying further since you have clearly lost the plot.

Edit - you are being called an IRT because you keep bringing up Indian this and brown that at every turn.

Someone says Aziz shouldn't have been falsely accused (a fact), and you respond by calling an entire race of people street shitters?

I doubt you would have had the balls to say something similar about black people.

And isn't your step mother Indian?

Utterly hypocritical and pathetic.

His step mother, not his wife.

Post: #98

(01-15-2018 08:35 PM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  Im starting to see occasional signs of cracks in the lunacy and a return to reason leaking through.

Aziz Ansari Guilty. Of Not Being A Mind Reader NY Times

Quote:I’m apparently the victim of sexual assault. And if you’re a sexually active woman in the 21st century, chances are that you are, too.

That is what I learned from the “exposé” of Aziz Ansari published this weekend by the feminist website Babe — arguably the worst thing that has happened to the #MeToo movement since it began in October. It transforms what ought to be a movement for women’s empowerment into an emblem for female helplessness.

The headline primes the reader to gird for the very worst: “I went on a date with Aziz Ansari. It turned into the worst night of my life.” Like everyone else, I clicked.

The victim in this 3,000-word story is called “Grace” — not her real name — and her saga with Mr. Ansari began at a 2017 Emmys after-party. As recounted by Grace to the reporter Katie Way, she approached him, but he brushed her off at first. Then they bonded over their devotion to the same vintage camera.

Grace was at the party with someone else, but she and Mr. Ansari exchanged numbers and soon arranged a date in Manhattan.

After arriving at his TriBeCa apartment on the appointed evening — she was “excited,” having carefully chosen her outfit after consulting with friends — they exchanged small talk and drank wine. “It was white,” she said. “I didn’t get to choose and I prefer red, but it was white wine.” Yes, we are apparently meant to read into the nonconsensual wine choice.

They went out to dinner nearby and then returned home to Mr. Ansari’s apartment. As Grace tells it, the actor was far too eager to get back to his place after he paid for dinner: “Like, he got the check and then it was bada-boom, bada-bing, we’re out of there.” Another sign of his apparent boorishness.

Grace complimented Mr. Ansari’s kitchen countertops. The actor then made a move, asking her to sit on the counter. They started kissing. He undressed her and then himself.

In the 30 or so minutes that followed — recounted beat by cringe-inducing beat — they hooked up. Mr. Ansari persistently tried to have penetrative sex with her, and Grace says she was deeply uncomfortable throughout. At various points, she told the reporter, she attempted to voice her hesitation, and that Mr. Ansari ignored her signals.

At last, she uttered the word “no” for the first time during their encounter, to Mr. Ansari’s suggestion that they have sex in front of a mirror. He said: “‘How about we just chill, but this time with our clothes on?’”

They got dressed, sat on the couch and watched “Seinfeld.” She said to him: “You guys are all the same.” He called her an Uber. She cried on the way home. Fin.

If you are wondering what about this evening constituted the “worst night” of Grace’s life, or why it is being framed as a #MeToo story by a feminist website, you probably feel as confused as Mr. Ansari did the next day. “It was fun meeting you last night,” he texted.

“Last night might’ve been fun for you, but it wasn’t for me,” she responded. “You ignored clear nonverbal cues; you kept going with advances. You had to have noticed I was uncomfortable.” He replied with an apology.

Read Grace’s text message again.

Put in other words: I am angry that you weren’t able to read my mind.

It is worth carefully studying Grace’s story. Encoded in it are new yet deeply retrograde ideas about what constitutes consent — and what constitutes sexual violence.

Sign Up for the Opinion Today Newsletter
Every weekday, get thought-provoking commentary from Op-Ed columnists, the Times editorial board and contributing writers from around the world.

Sign Up
SEE SAMPLE PRIVACY POLICY OPT OUT OR CONTACT US ANYTIME
We are told by the reporter that Grace “says she used verbal and nonverbal cues to indicate how uncomfortable and distressed she was.” She adds that “whether Ansari didn’t notice Grace’s reticence or knowingly ignored it is impossible for her to say.” We are told that “he wouldn’t let her move away from him,” in the encounter.

Yet Mr. Ansari, in a statement responding to Grace’s story, said that “by all indications” the encounter was “completely consensual.”

I am a proud feminist, and this is what I thought while reading Grace’s story:

If you are hanging out naked with a man, it’s safe to assume he is going to try to have sex with you.

If the inability to choose a pinot noir over a pinot grigio offends you, you can leave right then and there.

If you don’t like the way your date hustles through paying the check, you can say, “I’ve had a lovely evening and I’m going home now.”

If you go home with him and discover he’s a terrible kisser, say “I’m out.”

If you start to hook up and don’t like the way he smells or the way he talks (or doesn’t talk), end it.

If he pressures you to do something you don’t want to do, use a four-letter word, stand up on your two legs and walk out his door.

Aziz Ansari sounds like he was aggressive and selfish and obnoxious that night. Isn’t it heartbreaking and depressing that men — especially ones who present themselves publicly as feminists — so often act this way in private? Shouldn’t we try to change our broken sexual culture? And isn’t it enraging that women are socialized to be docile and accommodating and to put men’s desires before their own? Yes. Yes. Yes.

But the solution to these problems does not begin with women torching men for failing to understand their “nonverbal cues.” It is for women to be more verbal. It’s to say: “This is what turns me on.” It’s to say “I don’t want to do that.” And, yes, sometimes it means saying piss off.

The single most distressing thing to me about Grace’s story is that the only person with any agency in the story seems to be Aziz Ansari. Grace is merely acted upon.

All of this put me in mind of another piece published this weekend, this one by the novelist and feminist icon Margaret Atwood. “My fundamental position is that women are human beings,” she writes. “Nor do I believe that women are children, incapable of agency or of making moral decisions. If they were, we’re back to the 19th century, and women should not own property, have credit cards, have access to higher education, control their own reproduction or vote. There are powerful groups in North America pushing this agenda, but they are not usually considered feminists.”

Except, increasingly, they are.

Grace’s story was met with so many digital hosannas by young feminists, who insisted that consent is only consent if it is affirmative, active, continuous and — and this is the word most used — enthusiastic. Consent isn’t the only thing they are radically redefining. A recent survey by The Economist/YouGov found that approximately 25 percent of millennial-age American women think asking someone for a drink is harassment. More than a third say that if a man compliments a woman’s looks it is harassment.

To judge from social media reaction to Grace’s story, they also see a flagrant abuse of power in this sexual encounter. Yes, Mr. Ansari is a wealthy celebrity with a Netflix show. But he had no actual power over Grace — professionally or otherwise. And lumping him in with the same movement that brought down men who ran movie studios and forced themselves on actresses, or the factory floor supervisors who demanded sex from women workers, trivializes what #MeToo first stood for.

I’m sorry Grace had this experience. I too have had lousy romantic encounters, as has every adult woman I know. I have regretted these encounters, and not said anything at all. And I have regretted them and said so, like Grace did. And I know I am lucky that these unpleasant moments were far from being anything approaching assault or rape, or even the worst night of my life.

But the response to Grace’s story makes me think that many of my fellow feminists might insist that my experience was just that, and for me to define it otherwise is nothing more than my internalized misogyny.

There is a useful term for what Grace experienced on her night with Mr. Ansari. It’s called “bad sex.” It sucks.

The feminist answer is to push for a culture in which boys and young men are taught that sex does not have to be pursued like they’re in a porn film, and one in which girls and young women are empowered to be bolder, braver and louder about what they want. The insidious attempt by some women to criminalize awkward, gross and entitled sex takes women back to the days of smelling salts and fainting couches. That’s somewhere I, for one, don’t want to go.

My top 40 radio morning show had very similar talking points, just not as high brow. Had a colored woman complaining that "Grace" just had a bad date.

Apparrently the PTB are trying to control the damage and backlash from their over-reach.

Post: #99

(01-16-2018 01:41 AM)Agastya Wrote:  

(01-15-2018 08:48 PM)Fisto Wrote:  Cobra - you know good and well it was your fellow IRT Agastaya that made the ridiculous argument about trading white liberals for conservative browns. You apparently missed what Enigma pointed out, which is that you and your fellow street shitters voted for Hillary by 80% (the other 20% probably don’t shit in the street).

Therefore it would seem saving the country means stopping you people from coming in droves on H1B visas.

You keep implying you have some great game. I really doubt that but way to go. You don’t need to keep telling me.

My original point and answer to your question about why we are focusing on the lack of game instead of the false accusation stands: learning from Aznari’s mistakes is a learning opportunity, while just crying “but that’s not fair he was falsely accused” helps no one.

I’m putting you on ignore and will not be replying further since you have clearly lost the plot.

Edit - you are being called an IRT because you keep bringing up Indian this and brown that at every turn.

Someone says Aziz shouldn't have been falsely accused (a fact), and you respond by calling an entire race of people street shitters?

I doubt you would have had the balls to say something similar about black people.

And isn't your step mother Indian?

Utterly hypocritical and pathetic.

Black people don’t shit in the street so I doubt I’d say something similar.

And my step mother says the same thing. You people are mostly a menace (80% for Hillary really says it all, and no your hamster can’t explain it away).

I wasn’t talking about the Indian “race”, I was talking about your “culture” if it makes you feel better.

You seem perfectly comfortable talking about white culture in derogatory terms and then accusing anyone that argues with you of being “triggered” or “butthurt” well now you and your little buddy Cobra seem to be the ones triggered and butthurt.

You’re both running coordinated subversion.

Cobra even went so far as to pretend he didn’t know it was you saying the EXACT same shit about replacing white people with brown people.

You two aren’t fooling anyone and I couldn’t care less if you’re offended.

Edit - actually I responded (for the 3rd or 4th time) answering Cobra’s question as to why everyone wasn’t focused on the “false accusation” (and once again, he wasn’t falsely accused, he was accurately accused of what amounts to horrible game).

Post: #100

Aziz Ansari ironically roasting dudes' text game: