Post: #1

A lot is made about the risks involved in modern marriage, but not enough is said about the effects that avoiding marriage may have on man and his potential.

A wife provides a stability and a sense of support that cannot be replicated. If ones goal is to reach a position of power or even just stability and optimal performance in work, a wife's role as supporter cannot be underestimated. The role as a father is also one that is crucial in order to find balance between work and family life, and is almost impossible to replace.

I think there is almost a biological obligation to find a life partner and have children; otherwise, like childless women, we risk damaging our mental health. I feel there are risks in not getting married that may be equal to those of getting married.

Post: #2

This thread is of particular interest to me as at 38 I'm weighing up the pros and cons of marriage and kids more than I ever have done before. Particularly given I've got a proper awesome girl now whom I'm pretty serious with. Plus I've had a darn good innings in my pussy chasing days, so am starting to feel fairly settled and thinking a lot more of the future now.

I'm very interested to hear from any older guys who haven't been married and/or had kids who perhaps regret it (or not?). There's plenty of information out there on the risks of marriage but interested for the sake of balance to hear about the upsides also

Post: #3

I've read some longevity books that suggest men are able to live longer if they have a loving partner. There are several suggested reasons for this:

1. A loving partner provides another reason to want to live longer and so look after your health.
2. A loving partner will encourage you to go to the doctor where you might otherwise avoid it or put it off if on your own.
3. The reasons listed in the OP.

These books also suggest that if you do not have a loving partner or have several divorces, it has a negative impact on your health far more than if you were single. It should also be mentioned that people who are really into their career or profession can also live a long life even without a spouse as it provides them with the motivation to live a long life and so on.

Of course, a good question to also consider is is how much can you extrapolate from these longevity studies when we have modern generations of where divorces are rampant, people are choosing not to get married and you have women far less likely to take on traditional feminine roles such as looking after the cooking and health of the family.

Post: #4

I cant think of any.

Post: #5

From a corporate perspective, being married provides the following benefits:

You can build relationships with other married guys,
You present as a stable guy,
Gay guys won't hit on you,
Single women will leave you alone.

If you are not married:

Other married guys are still good, but it's harder to relate when talking about family, kids etc,
The boss may think you are less stable,
Gay guys (and there are plenty in high level positions) will hate you when you make it clear that you are not interested,
Single women will hate you when you make it clear that you are not interested (the sisterhood mafia will try to take you down).

Been there, done it. It's real.

Post: #6

I am not at that point, but I have the following thoughts based on my own experience, closing in on the age where a serious relationship would put me in danger of marriage, and several long conversations on the topic with my father (who was a prolific shagger, and who then married a much younger top model at the age of 40, to whom he has now been married for 30 years):

1. For the maximum chance of success the girl should be of the same social class (or extremely aspirational), race, and religious beliefs (or lack thereof). The heat of the matter will subside within a relatively short space of time, and then you are looking at tying yourself (financially and with children) to someone for life.

- If a girl is from a different social class she is likely to have different customs/ideas on what is an appropriate way to behave. I dated a working class girl (I'm upper middle class), who was beautiful and perfectly sweet, but she swore like a trooper regardless of her environment, used words that are the kiss of death in the social circles my friends come from, and would have done little things like wearing skirts that were just too short to be appropriate for the occasion. If your circles value refinement, someone like this, however lovely and tolerable she might be when it's just the two of you, will be a constant source of minor irritation and resentment for as long as you live.

- The behaviours you forgive in her may be harder to forgive in her friends. They will become your friends, and again, it is one thing to tolerate them whilst you're still madly in love, but there will be a time when she isn't young and beautiful, and these are still the people who will surround you. Would you want 10 of her friends in your stylish, chic home for a long dinner party, or would you be climbing the walls waiting for them to leave?

- You also have to consider her family. Are they able to engage with you without resentment/chippiness? How would your wedding day go, when all her friends and family turned up and mixed with all of yours. If they turned up dressed in a way that your friends/family would consider inappropriate, would you be sitting there embarrassed? If they didn't hold their knife and fork properly, and you had to endure sloppy eating habits for the rest of your life, would that also add to your aggravation? These things seem so small, but they add up, and are inescapable. Would you want your children to adopt the habits of her friends/family? If the kids went to stay with her mum and dad for a week, would you be tearing your hair out over them coming back with a glottal stop, or their manners eroded?

- The same things apply to race and religion - can you tolerate their cultural quirks? I love asian girls, but the thought of a giant Chinese family invading my home on a semi-regular basis fills me with dread. It's a cultural difference that would start to tell over time. Equally, say you are atheist, and she is a devout Catholic, would you be happy for your children to be indoctrinated by her and her family, have them sent to church, or proffered to a priest?

2. Close behind compatibility is her age, physical appearance, health, and 'intelligence'. The primary purpose of marriage is to produce children. When you marry someone, it should be an exercise in eugenics as far as possible. They will become a significant part of your life, and you want your children to be as tall, good looking, intelligent, athletic and healthy as possible.

- I always remember my father's horror at a parent's day meeting in junior school when a teacher told him that I was 'one of the top students in the class' and not 'THE top student'. Your children are a reflection on you, and it will constantly grate if they are simple, unimpressive or weedy.

3. She should be significantly younger. This will reduce your chances of straying too egregiously or carelessly. Divorce is a very big deal, both emotionally and financially, and it really wipes a lot of people out from what I've seen. Especially as a man, to have worked hard and made sacrifices for 30 years of work, only to see half of it handed over to your wife would be heartbreaking. The other significant consideration on age is that your wife may well be responsible for arranging much of your shared social life. If she is much younger, many of your friends will be too. My father is 70, my mum is 57, and my father enjoys the fact that when they have dinner parties they are not geriatric affairs. He does not look or feel like a 70 year old man, and a significantly younger wife is a big part of that.

4. She should be a worker. My mum hasn't been employed since she was married, but she has worked amazingly hard on our family home, the garden, the food we grow, and what she puts on our plates. She puts in the equivalent of a full time job keeping everything right, and it adds tremendous value to all of our lives.

5. She should not be negative/a whinger/complainer. You can tolerate that in someone sexy you're fucking with gay abandon, but man, after 20-30 years that will grate like nothing else. Same goes for if she is critical. You do not want to be being nagged, harried, or generally picked at for the rest of your days. She should be sweet, supportive, and relatively quiet.

Post: #7

(01-04-2018 03:06 AM)Cane Toad Wrote:  Single women will leave you alone.

They will if you look like an unhappily married fuck.

Some dudes even fake being married to run game.

Post: #8

Found out this week that one of the most productive 27 year olds I know was raised in a two parent home by parents who NEVER got married.

His pops must have had game.

Post: #9

Post: #10

(01-04-2018 08:46 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

So don't get married...and then wind up with Ann-Margret or Sophia Loren.

Post: #11

(01-04-2018 01:32 AM)TIOT12 Wrote:  I've read some longevity books that suggest men are able to live longer if they have a loving partner.

What does having a loving partner to do with getting married?

Everyone who gets married is in love.

Half of marriages end in divorce.

Many more stay together for the kids.

A fraction of those that are left are "good marriges".

Post: #12

The only downside I can think of is having serious trouble interacting with other couples that are married/ people at work, etc. Especially as you get older and most people are married.

Post: #13

(01-04-2018 06:47 AM)H1N1 Wrote:  I am not at that point, but I have the following thoughts based on my own experience, closing in on the age where a serious relationship would put me in danger of marriage, and several long conversations on the topic with my father (who was a prolific shagger, and who then married a much younger top model at the age of 40, to whom he has now been married for 30 years):

1. For the maximum chance of success the girl should be of the same social class (or extremely aspirational), race, and religious beliefs (or lack thereof). The heat of the matter will subside within a relatively short space of time, and then you are looking at tying yourself (financially and with children) to someone for life.

- If a girl is from a different social class she is likely to have different customs/ideas on what is an appropriate way to behave. I dated a working class girl (I'm upper middle class), who was beautiful and perfectly sweet, but she swore like a trooper regardless of her environment, used words that are the kiss of death in the social circles my friends come from, and would have done little things like wearing skirts that were just too short to be appropriate for the occasion. If your circles value refinement, someone like this, however lovely and tolerable she might be when it's just the two of you, will be a constant source of minor irritation and resentment for as long as you live.

- The behaviours you forgive in her may be harder to forgive in her friends. They will become your friends, and again, it is one thing to tolerate them whilst you're still madly in love, but there will be a time when she isn't young and beautiful, and these are still the people who will surround you. Would you want 10 of her friends in your stylish, chic home for a long dinner party, or would you be climbing the walls waiting for them to leave?

- You also have to consider her family. Are they able to engage with you without resentment/chippiness? How would your wedding day go, when all her friends and family turned up and mixed with all of yours. If they turned up dressed in a way that your friends/family would consider inappropriate, would you be sitting there embarrassed? If they didn't hold their knife and fork properly, and you had to endure sloppy eating habits for the rest of your life, would that also add to your aggravation? These things seem so small, but they add up, and are inescapable. Would you want your children to adopt the habits of her friends/family? If the kids went to stay with her mum and dad for a week, would you be tearing your hair out over them coming back with a glottal stop, or their manners eroded?

- The same things apply to race and religion - can you tolerate their cultural quirks? I love asian girls, but the thought of a giant Chinese family invading my home on a semi-regular basis fills me with dread. It's a cultural difference that would start to tell over time. Equally, say you are atheist, and she is a devout Catholic, would you be happy for your children to be indoctrinated by her and her family, have them sent to church, or proffered to a priest?

2. Close behind compatibility is her age, physical appearance, health, and 'intelligence'. The primary purpose of marriage is to produce children. When you marry someone, it should be an exercise in eugenics as far as possible. They will become a significant part of your life, and you want your children to be as tall, good looking, intelligent, athletic and healthy as possible.

- I always remember my father's horror at a parent's day meeting in junior school when a teacher told him that I was 'one of the top students in the class' and not 'THE top student'. Your children are a reflection on you, and it will constantly grate if they are simple, unimpressive or weedy.

3. She should be significantly younger. This will reduce your chances of straying too egregiously or carelessly. Divorce is a very big deal, both emotionally and financially, and it really wipes a lot of people out from what I've seen. Especially as a man, to have worked hard and made sacrifices for 30 years of work, only to see half of it handed over to your wife would be heartbreaking. The other significant consideration on age is that your wife may well be responsible for arranging much of your shared social life. If she is much younger, many of your friends will be too. My father is 70, my mum is 57, and my father enjoys the fact that when they have dinner parties they are not geriatric affairs. He does not look or feel like a 70 year old man, and a significantly younger wife is a big part of that.

4. She should be a worker. My mum hasn't been employed since she was married, but she has worked amazingly hard on our family home, the garden, the food we grow, and what she puts on our plates. She puts in the equivalent of a full time job keeping everything right, and it adds tremendous value to all of our lives.

5. She should not be negative/a whinger/complainer. You can tolerate that in someone sexy you're fucking with gay abandon, but man, after 20-30 years that will grate like nothing else. Same goes for if she is critical. You do not want to be being nagged, harried, or generally picked at for the rest of your days. She should be sweet, supportive, and relatively quiet.

Did you mean to post this in another thread?

Post: #14

My younger brother married his high school sweetheart and have been together 30 plus years

He looks 70 years old instead of 51 has a triple chin and closing in on what looks to be 270 pounds. Along with balding with grey (my older sister looks old fat wrinkled and rough also...another long term marriage)

My brothers absolutely fascinated on why I'm well built with all my hair (the odd grey strands).

I was married...it was the worse experience of my life and glad it ended after 6 years (4 kids) my brother and sister are to me examples of what marriages does to people...it ages them....destroys the zest for life....to challenge oneself... to work on oneself... to have experiences

I'm too strong mentally to want "a mommy" which I view as the reason for today's marriages. (metro males, sensitive males, beta males)

100 years ago men viewed women as property and when the cook died ...he went out and got another cook. The man prayed for a son to work the farm/business and the only interest in his woman was delivering a son before dying during childbirth.

Hollywood has made marriage and babies and endless love .....an actual goal for men....to the point where men think that it's the only goal that matters for a good life. WRONG.....longevity? my goals 110 years old

I won't get into how my over the age of 20's kids are doing except that they are all married/common law with kids and are on the path my brother/sister took and are looking it already.... marital bliss....hilarious!

Final thought on marriage .....there's a reason 40 or 50 yr old marriages hit the news.....these are freaks! and news worthy.

Post: #15

Solid thread...would love to read some of the input here by other members.

Post: #16

Like everything in life, a marriage is a reflection of who you are and the choices you make.

My daughter was born last month. Nobody told me how amazing it would feel to just hold her in my arms every night. She fell asleep on my chest the other day while just quietly staring into my eyes. I am the most important man that will ever be in her life. The level of intimacy is something I cannot even describe with words.... she is a part of me and I am a part of her.

If I was not married, then I know that eventually she would get a step father. I would not be able to control what kind of dipshit gets to 50% raise my daughter. MY DAUGHTER!

To my opinion... the downside of not getting married is never experiencing children or experiencing children but sharing that with some toolbox or child molesting fucker!

A child is the closest you will ever get to immortality!

Post: #17

(01-04-2018 06:47 AM)H1N1 Wrote:  I am not at that point, but I have the following thoughts based on my own experience, closing in on the age where a serious relationship would put me in danger of marriage, and several long conversations on the topic with my father (who was a prolific shagger, and who then married a much younger top model at the age of 40, to whom he has now been married for 30 years):

1. For the maximum chance of success the girl should be of the same social class (or extremely aspirational), race, and religious beliefs (or lack thereof). The heat of the matter will subside within a relatively short space of time, and then you are looking at tying yourself (financially and with children) to someone for life.

- If a girl is from a different social class she is likely to have different customs/ideas on what is an appropriate way to behave. I dated a working class girl (I'm upper middle class), who was beautiful and perfectly sweet, but she swore like a trooper regardless of her environment, used words that are the kiss of death in the social circles my friends come from, and would have done little things like wearing skirts that were just too short to be appropriate for the occasion. If your circles value refinement, someone like this, however lovely and tolerable she might be when it's just the two of you, will be a constant source of minor irritation and resentment for as long as you live.

- The behaviours you forgive in her may be harder to forgive in her friends. They will become your friends, and again, it is one thing to tolerate them whilst you're still madly in love, but there will be a time when she isn't young and beautiful, and these are still the people who will surround you. Would you want 10 of her friends in your stylish, chic home for a long dinner party, or would you be climbing the walls waiting for them to leave?

- You also have to consider her family. Are they able to engage with you without resentment/chippiness? How would your wedding day go, when all her friends and family turned up and mixed with all of yours. If they turned up dressed in a way that your friends/family would consider inappropriate, would you be sitting there embarrassed? If they didn't hold their knife and fork properly, and you had to endure sloppy eating habits for the rest of your life, would that also add to your aggravation? These things seem so small, but they add up, and are inescapable. Would you want your children to adopt the habits of her friends/family? If the kids went to stay with her mum and dad for a week, would you be tearing your hair out over them coming back with a glottal stop, or their manners eroded?

- The same things apply to race and religion - can you tolerate their cultural quirks? I love asian girls, but the thought of a giant Chinese family invading my home on a semi-regular basis fills me with dread. It's a cultural difference that would start to tell over time. Equally, say you are atheist, and she is a devout Catholic, would you be happy for your children to be indoctrinated by her and her family, have them sent to church, or proffered to a priest?

2. Close behind compatibility is her age, physical appearance, health, and 'intelligence'. The primary purpose of marriage is to produce children. When you marry someone, it should be an exercise in eugenics as far as possible. They will become a significant part of your life, and you want your children to be as tall, good looking, intelligent, athletic and healthy as possible.

- I always remember my father's horror at a parent's day meeting in junior school when a teacher told him that I was 'one of the top students in the class' and not 'THE top student'. Your children are a reflection on you, and it will constantly grate if they are simple, unimpressive or weedy.

3. She should be significantly younger. This will reduce your chances of straying too egregiously or carelessly. Divorce is a very big deal, both emotionally and financially, and it really wipes a lot of people out from what I've seen. Especially as a man, to have worked hard and made sacrifices for 30 years of work, only to see half of it handed over to your wife would be heartbreaking. The other significant consideration on age is that your wife may well be responsible for arranging much of your shared social life. If she is much younger, many of your friends will be too. My father is 70, my mum is 57, and my father enjoys the fact that when they have dinner parties they are not geriatric affairs. He does not look or feel like a 70 year old man, and a significantly younger wife is a big part of that.

4. She should be a worker. My mum hasn't been employed since she was married, but she has worked amazingly hard on our family home, the garden, the food we grow, and what she puts on our plates. She puts in the equivalent of a full time job keeping everything right, and it adds tremendous value to all of our lives.

5. She should not be negative/a whinger/complainer. You can tolerate that in someone sexy you're fucking with gay abandon, but man, after 20-30 years that will grate like nothing else. Same goes for if she is critical. You do not want to be being nagged, harried, or generally picked at for the rest of your days. She should be sweet, supportive, and relatively quiet.

H, this is a great post, full of the best possible advice on this subject that has rarely been stated better and more clearly. It is as if you have condensed centuries of the best and deepest English sanity and common
sense; Doctor Johnson himself could only nod in solemn approval when reading it.

I would adjoin to it my earlier post which more directly addresses the question posed in this thread. I think guys who haven't seen it might find it of interest, especially taken together with the superb advice quoted above.

Almost All Men Should Eventually Marry And Have Kids

Post: #18

(01-04-2018 07:34 PM)EndsExpect Wrote:  Like everything in life, a marriage is a reflection of who you are and the choices you make.

My daughter was born last month. Nobody told me how amazing it would feel to just hold her in my arms every night. She fell asleep on my chest the other day while just quietly staring into my eyes. I am the most important man that will ever be in her life. The level of intimacy is something I cannot even describe with words.... she is a part of me and I am a part of her.

If I was not married, then I know that eventually she would get a step father. I would not be able to control what kind of dipshit gets to 50% raise my daughter. MY DAUGHTER!

To my opinion... the downside of not getting married is never experiencing children or experiencing children but sharing that with some toolbox or child molesting fucker!

A child is the closest you will ever get to immortality!

Congratulations to you and best wishes, but marriage is no guarantee that you will continue to be able to experience what you are experiencing, as many divorced fathers will tell you.

I am a father and yes fatherhood is an amazing experience but it can be taken from you. Marriage is not a guarantee of fatherhood.

Post: #19

To answer the question no, there aren't any downsides as far as life expectancy or performance, unless you're getting the 1960s experience your wife helps you save a lot of time by cooking your meals etc.

Being single will help you stay in shape and lead a healthy, active life with new experiences and personal growth.

If you want a child, then of course, marriage could be for you. Just don't expect too much.

All of the OGs I've talked to - guys 65 or older - have told me that they wouldn't marry again, if they could go back in time. Only one of them was divorced though

Post: #20

(01-03-2018 07:35 PM)xxx Wrote:  A lot is made about the risks involved in modern marriage, but not enough is said about the effects that avoiding marriage may have on man and his potential.

A wife provides a stability and a sense of support that cannot be replicated. If ones goal is to reach a position of power or even just stability and optimal performance in work, a wife's role as supporter cannot be underestimated. The role as a father is also one that is crucial in order to find balance between work and family life, and is almost impossible to replace.

I think there is almost a biological obligation to find a life partner and have children; otherwise, like childless women, we risk damaging our mental health. I feel there are risks in not getting married that may be equal to those of getting married.

I've never been married and have no kids and I'm just fine. The overwhelming majority of my friends have been married and divorced and have custody issues with the children, have no retirement funds, lost their homes in the divorce, etc.

In contrast, I own 2 homes, own my car, am debt free, have a rocking retirement fund (Thank you, Mr. Trump)... I don't have to worry about which weekend the crumb-snatchers are coming over. I can keep loaded firearms in the house, watch porn, bang a different chick when the opportunity arises. I can travel at will, go wherever I want and when I want. I can come home and watch Sports Center in my undies on the couch. I don't have to watch retarded kids movies... I've never changed a shit-filled diaper. I don't have to worry about my daughter having a teen pregnancy. I don't have to worry that my son grows up to be a criminal or a drug addict. I don't get sick every other week because kids are nasty and bring home a cold or flu continuously. I don't have stupid toys and shit scattered all over the house. I never lost sleep because of a crying kid.

I don't regret a thing. Where's the downside of that?

Post: #21

We talk a lot about alphas, betas, nature, instincts.
Well all of that, when it comes to all living creatures, is about having kids. You enjoying sex is at its root because of creating children.

But we are victims of our advancement and many of us have been shaped in a way by society and the media to no longer be able to be happy with that. Even though my whole extended family with maybe on exception had a great experience being married, but then again they grew up in different times.

My brain says making a family is ultimately the goal of life, my heart says i cant stand a girl for more than 3 hours at a time so fat chance of that happenning.

But i would never preach it as the "right" way to live or anything.

Post: #22

(01-03-2018 11:57 PM)Irish Wrote:  This thread is of particular interest to me as at 38 I'm weighing up the pros and cons of marriage and kids more than I ever have done before. Particularly given I've got a proper awesome girl now whom I'm pretty serious with. Plus I've had a darn good innings in my pussy chasing days, so am starting to feel fairly settled and thinking a lot more of the future now.

I'm very interested to hear from any older guys who haven't been married and/or had kids who perhaps regret it (or not?). There's plenty of information out there on the risks of marriage but interested for the sake of balance to hear about the upsides also

I have two friends i take as reference (one that you met irish )

Both are multi millionaires and run important companies here.

One was pushed to marry at 25, now has 4 kids. Lives very conservatively, his whole life is about work. He gets his kicks from work and succeeding at his job and growing his company. I get the sense he tries to minimize his time at home as he doesnt enjoy it. But he never cheats, he likes to look at pics of girls we met and stuff, but at the end hes committed. You can see he would like to join us sometimes, but ultimately his commitment to his family is too strong.

The other one is about 45, never married. Spends all his time flying to dubai (mainly for p4p) and the rest going out to clubs and stuff just to get out of the house and be around people and women. Hes rich as well and enjoys it (supercars, trips...)

But hes always harrassing me to go out. ALWAYS. Cannot sit at home. You can also tell hes lonely. He now says he wants kids but isnt keen on marriage.

So basically, noones happy. very useful post i know

Post: #23

This should help.

Post: #24

You need a life partner. You don't want to be alone when.youre 60 or 70. We can't all be Playboy pussy chasers forever.

Post: #25

(01-05-2018 02:11 PM)TheGoldenJew Wrote:  This should help.

Nah, The Departed kind of has a blue pill view on it. You don't need marriage to get ahead if you're a self-made man or have remote/passive income. That's needed for stability in a corporate work environment because it shows that people can get you to commit to something that may not be in your best interest and it builds a bond with other potential blue pill customers that are in the same boat.

Also, your dick can work with cash just fine without marriage. In fact, I've really seen it play out the opposite way. Guys with cash wait longer to get married sometimes and casanovas usually don't need to prove their dick works. They let the visual ladies around them do the talking.

The homo part is also the oldest shaming tactic in the book. I don't think that's worth discussing here.

(01-05-2018 02:14 PM)Pancho Wrote:  You need a life partner. You don't want to be alone when.youre 60 or 70. We can't all be Playboy pussy chasers forever.

I actually think this explains marriage a lot better. No matter how valuable you are younger, there will probably come a point where we get pushed aside for a new crop of guys. Like it or not, I tend to believe men have a wall too, it's just less defined and usually takes longer to reach than a woman's.

(01-04-2018 04:32 PM)Dragan Wrote:  The only downside I can think of is having serious trouble interacting with other couples that are married/ people at work, etc. Especially as you get older and most people are married.

I'll agree with this. I'm in my 20's but I already see it in my older cousins and people of my age group who are in relationships. They have a bond and comfort with another couple that is a social connection that you just don't have access to. It's even worse if both couples are parents. All parents fucking talk about it is their kids.

This kind of brings me to another point. Kids are a big topic in potential marriage. Very few people get married but then don't go on to have kids. Talking to other parents, I realize it can be a nice reward in life if you are in a position where you are ready to settle down with someone valuable and can provide a good stable home environment for the child. However, your independent life is over. I'm young so I'd be a lot more hesitant to give that part of my life up, but some people are not ready to basically put all of their own needs, goals, and desires on the back burner. It's a big commitment that I don't know if I'll ever be willing to do.

I guess a downside is back to the loneliness thing or having a family unit to fall back on when our older unit eventually falls off and dies. I realize once my parents go, if I don't have a family of my own, I may very well end up cutting ties with a lot of my extended family, since they are the central unit that kind of holds my siblings and I together with them. Also, I don't know if I see myself staying with my sibling nearly as much once my parents go.

Forget the homo shaming and myths of marriage stability. That kind of stability is for the child more than anything I believe. The question I think I'll have to ask myself is if marriage gets in the way of what drives my happiness.