Post: #26

(09-16-2011 02:24 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  In threads like this, it should almost be mandatory that a guy post a pic - because if you don't know enough to get your own body looking good, you have no business saying shit at all about what other guys can do...

+1

Yes we are born with certain genetics that we have to deal with, that does not mean we lay down and cry. I say f*ck the genetics and train hard, I myself turned my physique completely around through hard ass training.

I see too many skinny guys rushing to the gym thinking they are going to get big overnight, it does not happen - everything in life takes time. Another gripe is these damn magazines that show these jacked up guys talking about what they eat and how they train, somehow they forget to mention they take $10k + a month in juice.

It is good to have a nice body but you must have the attitude to go with it. In my experience girls like a MAN, which means a guy with a bit of size to him. If you don't have that then your game has to be up to par.

Post: #27

(09-16-2011 12:51 PM)_DC_ Wrote:  

(09-16-2011 11:53 AM)Giovonny Wrote:  We don't get to pick our bodytype. The genetics we are born with will determine what kind of body we have.

Some people can add muscle easily, for some its hard.

Some people can lose weight easily, for others its hard.

Changing your body requires alot of hard work. To overcome your genetics, you practically have to change your lifestyle.

Some guys are naturally big boned, with broad shoulders and thick wrists. These are the guys who can really get big.

Other guys eat alot and lift alot but can't gain more then about 10 or 20 pounds.

Age is also a factor. When your young, and your metabolism is fast, things might be easier. Older guys have to watch their diets more carefully.

Lifestyle is a factor. If you have an extra 2 or 3 hours a day you can really lift hard. If you are working 50 hours a week, and have a family, workouts might have to shorter.

Try to maximize your own body and situation.

If a skinny guy want to get big, he usually has to force feed himself and dedicate himself to heavy lifting.

If a fat guy wants to get thin, he has to totally makeover his diet and lifestyle.

Body changing is not easy.

This is all true, no doubt, but if what the poll shows is true, the body type most women prefer is much easier to obtain than the average male's impression of the ideal male body type.

Losing weight isn't easy, especially getting to 10% bf or lower, however I think most people here would agree that it is much easier than gaining muscle. You can lose 10-20lbs fairly easily in a month or two, but it will take you a year (if you're lucky and doing everything perfectly) to gain that much muscle.

The link is actually pretty uplifting news in my opinion, as the "trying too hard" look is actually heavily frowned upon.

But yes, just like your face, there isn't much you can do about the broadness of shoulders (something heavily discussed in another thread).

But every guy looks better if they work out and eat right. Everyone will improve their looks if they do that, no matter where they are.

Post: #28

I asked a girl I'm seeing about this body thing, as she is one who prefers thinner men herself. She said that the reason why is women assume most real muscular men are just working out like that to try to make up for some shortcoming or are insecure with themselves. However they would be great for a one night stand, most women just can't picture them being boyfriend material. So in her mind if you look like that, you will have no shortage of quick flings and one night stands, but for a relationship most women prefer the thinner men. Of course as we all know with the right game anything is possible, but this also goes to show you always need the proper context.

Post: #29

Getting muscular definitely helps if done in conjunction with game. I've been working out for around 3 weeks and it helps self confidence and testosterone for sure. Its more of a thing done for myself though, It helps because of the confidence and alpha vibe that it brings but not just because of the muscles.

Its not a requirement for game, but a nice side bonus that adds extra value.
My buddy who struggles to bench 95 pounds has sharper game than 99 percent of guys and far better game than me. However, he admits that it can add to his attractiveness. He is mainly working out for himself though.

Post: #30

(09-19-2011 09:23 PM)that guy Wrote:  I asked a girl I'm seeing about this body thing, as she is one who prefers thinner men herself. She said that the reason why is women assume most real muscular men are just working out like that to try to make up for some shortcoming or are insecure with themselves. However they would be great for a one night stand, most women just can't picture them being boyfriend material. So in her mind if you look like that, you will have no shortage of quick flings and one night stands, but for a relationship most women prefer the thinner men. Of course as we all know with the right game anything is possible, but this also goes to show you always need the proper context.

This is so precisely retarded that you managed to refute yourself as you were making your argument.

Post: #31

Gonna reiterate what I said in another thread similar to this one:
Physique should matter most to the man who owns it. Look good, feel good, be healthy. The rest will come naturally.

The idea that you'd change the way you look ONLY because women like it undermines the entire concept of what this forum stands for.

Make positive changes FOR YOU. Like the way YOU look. If you're healthy, fit, and and lean, and a girl says she doesn't like your "body type" tell her to get fucked and go find some lamer that looks the way she wants.

Chef In Jeans
A culinary website for men

Post: #32

Thank you Chad ! already repped you bro..

< / thread >

Post: #33

(09-14-2011 03:02 PM)Menace Wrote:  Well there's hope for me yet, because I do not have the genetics to be hulking (which I sort of dig for some reason, no homo). I just think I may need a personal trainer to achieve my goals. Does anyone know or have advice of how to find someone who knows what's up (i.e. thinks like us) in the DC area? How much do they charge?

Most of these people were on steroids. Even Brad Pitt clearly is on powerful antiestrogens (estrogen causes subcutaneous fat in men too), winstrol, and anavar. There is no way you can look like that naturally for any appreciable period of time. It's just not possible.

All tht said, if you're young, you probably do have the genes. You need to eat more meat and lift heavy every other day. If you don't know what you're doing, and more importantly are afraid to lift heavy, then yes - a trainer will help.

If you're over 30, steroids are you're only hope.

Post: #34

(09-16-2011 01:37 PM)basilransom Wrote:  

(09-16-2011 12:51 PM)_DC_ Wrote:  But yes, just like your face, there isn't much you can do about the broadness of shoulders (something heavily discussed in another thread)

Getting bigger traps, back and shoulders will make you appear broader. The fact that some shoulder measurement will stay the same is irrelevant. Sure, there's a limit to the effect, but something can be done.

(09-16-2011 12:51 PM)_DC_ Wrote:  You can lose 10-20lbs fairly easily in a month or two, but it will take you a year (if you're lucky and doing everything perfectly) to gain that much muscle.

False. A kid training under the author of Starting Strength gained 46 pounds of lean body mass in 6 months, 31 lbs of LBM in 11 weeks. He had the advantage of professional coaching, but also ate an immense amount and put on a lot of fat. Point is, large gains in a short time are possible. His squat went up 200 lbs in 6 months too. And it's not that hard to get down to ~13-15% body fat either.

The study is flawed for the reasons I and others enumerated. Getting a top shelf physique requires a lot of hard work. Instead of putting in the hard work, people are denigrating the physique as not worth the effort. Maybe your time would be better spent elsewhere, in optimizing your game or whatever, but that's very different from saying a powerful physique is not ideal.

Lastly, even if getting bigger didn't improve your looks, it will probably make you more confident, as most guys report, and that will enhance your results with women.

My god there is so much bullshit information on this site.

For the vast majority of men (say 99%), achieving what you describe is impossible - even with very powerful steroids like trenbaoone. None of the people in the photos in this thread were not using steroids at some point.

When you're sitting at home reading the internet, it's easy to believe the hype. Once you're out there in a major city (Manhattan for me) and you get to know may other bodybuilders and fighters, you learn the truth - steroids are essential, especially if you are over 25.

Post: #35

(09-22-2011 07:17 AM)Martin_Heidegger Wrote:  If you're over 30, steroids are you're only hope.

Explain ?

Post: #36

(09-22-2011 07:35 AM)Martin_Heidegger Wrote:  My god there is so much bullshit information on this site.

For the vast majority of men (say 99%), achieving what you describe is impossible - even with very powerful steroids like trenbaoone. None of the people in the photos in this thread were not using steroids at some point.

There were no photos posted in this thread. If you meant the other thread, Steve Reeves is 100% natural. And the Starting Strength trainee was natural. Maybe you personally failed so you think success is impossible.

Post: #37

Lol at Steve Reeves being 100% natural, you lose all credibility for that. Steve Reeves was the one who introduced them to Marnul who introduced them to Arnold. They were legal back in the day and EVERYONE used them. You have no idea what your talking about, you just put up little emoticons in an attempt to be funny because everything you've said has zero substance.

Post: #38

(09-22-2011 07:17 AM)Martin_Heidegger Wrote:  Most of these people were on steroids. Even Brad Pitt clearly is on powerful antiestrogens (estrogen causes subcutaneous fat in men too), winstrol, and anavar. There is no way you can look like that naturally for any appreciable period of time. It's just not possible.

"Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars." - Les Brown

Telling guys that they'll never be like the men they're striving to become is a really shitty outlook. We're all here because we decided to stop being average and become something better. Most of us will never be in the legendary tier of men, but if we push for that goal then where we do end up will still put us miles ahead of the rest.

Chef In Jeans
A culinary website for men

Post: #39

Most dudes don't wanna put in the work. This dude puts in work http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAqFNa316_Q&NR=1

Post: #40

(09-20-2011 01:59 AM)basilransom Wrote:  

(09-19-2011 09:23 PM)that guy Wrote:  I asked a girl I'm seeing about this body thing, as she is one who prefers thinner men herself. She said that the reason why is women assume most real muscular men are just working out like that to try to make up for some shortcoming or are insecure with themselves. However they would be great for a one night stand, most women just can't picture them being boyfriend material. So in her mind if you look like that, you will have no shortage of quick flings and one night stands, but for a relationship most women prefer the thinner men. Of course as we all know with the right game anything is possible, but this also goes to show you always need the proper context.

This is so precisely retarded that you managed to refute yourself as you were making your argument.

+1

Let me guess, you are skinny.
She probably told you what you wanted to hear, which is usually different than what they actually want.
There is no ideal male body type just a preference that many women would prefer to have, do you ever see skinny male strippers?

As for the comment about being over 25 and needing steroids, that is a bunch of bull. Yes, I have dabbled with the stuff on and off over the years, but if you truly bust your ass in the gym you can get a decent body.

Post: #41

(09-24-2011 11:39 AM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

(09-20-2011 01:59 AM)basilransom Wrote:  

(09-19-2011 09:23 PM)that guy Wrote:  I asked a girl I'm seeing about this body thing, as she is one who prefers thinner men herself. She said that the reason why is women assume most real muscular men are just working out like that to try to make up for some shortcoming or are insecure with themselves. However they would be great for a one night stand, most women just can't picture them being boyfriend material. So in her mind if you look like that, you will have no shortage of quick flings and one night stands, but for a relationship most women prefer the thinner men. Of course as we all know with the right game anything is possible, but this also goes to show you always need the proper context.

This is so precisely retarded that you managed to refute yourself as you were making your argument.

+1

Let me guess, you are skinny.
She probably told you what you wanted to hear, which is usually different than what they actually want.
There is no ideal male body type just a preference that many women would prefer to have, do you ever see skinny male strippers?

As for the comment about being over 25 and needing steroids, that is a bunch of bull. Yes, I have dabbled with the stuff on and off over the years, but if you truly bust your ass in the gym you can get a decent body.

Ummm, actually I'm not skinny at all. My body type is very close to the UFC figure in the first set of pictures (the 2.9%). Anyway, I think you both are completely missing what I am saying our are just out of touch.

Yes, there is an ideal male body type, hence why the majority of women picked the same one. Obviously there are outliers and personality can compensate for anything, but judging strictly by bodytype generally speaking there is an ideal one. In fact, the discussion came up when she saw me drinking a protein shake because she thought I was trying to get even bigger and was trying to talk me out of it.

I'm guessing you are a very muscular person who has no problems getting women, and are attributing your success to your physique even though it really has more to do with some other factor, such as confidence or personality.

Think of the thin but fit man and super muscular man and compare them to a model girl and a pornstar. Most men would marry the model and fuck the pornstar on the side. In the same way, more women would gravitate towards the natural looking male for a relationship partner. Not to mention, alot of women have negative stereotypes about the super muscular men and will put them through more hoops. Now if you asked the women in this survey which guy would you have a one night stand with and never see again, I suspect that the more muscular men would fair better, though I doubt they would overtake Brad Pitt.

Also, it is important to note where you go looking for women. If you are a nightclub guy, I would guess more of those women are the types that prefer the more muscular men. If you are doing alot of daygaming in a coffee shop or bookstore, probably not so much.

Post: #42

(09-22-2011 07:23 PM)that guy Wrote:  Lol at Steve Reeves being 100% natural, you lose all credibility for that. Steve Reeves was the one who introduced them to Marnul who introduced them to Arnold. They were legal back in the day and EVERYONE used them. You have no idea what your talking about, you just put up little emoticons in an attempt to be funny because everything you've said has zero substance.

I looked into it, and he may in fact have taken steroids, but there's no solid evidence either way. If he did do it, he probably started after he retired from bodybuilding, as they were introduced around the mid 50's. Reeves won Mr. Universe in 1950. Whatever the case, there are plenty of lifters who were as big as Reeves or bigger without using steroids. Go to any D1 college and you'll see some big guys. The idea that you can't put on a few pounds is ridiculous. You may never look like a top natural lifter, but you can still gain considerable muscle.

(09-23-2011 07:53 PM)Chad Daring Wrote:  "Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars." - Les Brown

Telling guys that they'll never be like the men they're striving to become is a really shitty outlook. We're all here because we decided to stop being average and become something better. Most of us will never be in the legendary tier of men, but if we push for that goal then where we do end up will still put us miles ahead of the rest.

There's no need to promise the moon. A powerful physique is attainable given sufficient effort.

(09-24-2011 04:57 PM)that guy Wrote:  Ummm, actually I'm not skinny at all. My body type is very close to the UFC figure in the first set of pictures (the 2.9%). Anyway, I think you both are completely missing what I am saying our are just out of touch.

Yes, there is an ideal male body type, hence why the majority of women picked the same one. Obviously there are outliers and personality can compensate for anything, but judging strictly by bodytype generally speaking there is an ideal one. In fact, the discussion came up when she saw me drinking a protein shake because she thought I was trying to get even bigger and was trying to talk me out of it.

I'm guessing you are a very muscular person who has no problems getting women, and are attributing your success to your physique even though it really has more to do with some other factor, such as confidence or personality.

Think of the thin but fit man and super muscular man and compare them to a model girl and a pornstar. Most men would marry the model and fuck the pornstar on the side. In the same way, more women would gravitate towards the natural looking male for a relationship partner. Not to mention, alot of women have negative stereotypes about the super muscular men and will put them through more hoops. Now if you asked the women in this survey which guy would you have a one night stand with and never see again, I suspect that the more muscular men would fair better, though I doubt they would overtake Brad Pitt.

Also, it is important to note where you go looking for women. If you are a nightclub guy, I would guess more of those women are the types that prefer the more muscular men. If you are doing alot of daygaming in a coffee shop or bookstore, probably not so much.

1. Having muscle doesn't require you to be a meathead. There's a game blogger who's pretty big, but he makes it a point to not talk about working out and such, and playing up his other interests. The muscles speak for themselves.

2. You said that girls prefer muscular guys for a short term fling. But once you've banged a girl, you've got a lot more leverage over whether you see her again or not. I'd rather be the guy who already had a same night lay, than the guy three dates in with no pussy to speak of.

3. Girls say they want all kinds of things in their future husband. Caring, attentive, yada yada. These traits don't help to attract women.

Same for their desired physique - Consider the typical gaming scenario: You've got a matter of minutes to hook her. Girls don't decide they want to make a man their boyfriend until they've at least banged a few times. If you have to attract a young girl quickly, you want to cater to her short term preferences, what she wants in a fling. And younger girls, i.e. under 25, are rarely even looking for boyfriends. Nowadays the pattern is bang him for a while, and then hope he agrees to be your boyfriend.

And women correctly associate high muscularity with promiscuity, and they don't want a promiscuous husband. They want him to be faithful and stick around. In theory, they don't want a guy who is too 'alpha' because he will be trouble down the road. In reality, they may have trouble resisting the alpha regardless. The hotter the girl, the more alpha she can put up with, because she's better able to keep him. And a study and my personal experience suggest hotter girls like muscles more than the plainer girls.

4. I was living with a couple girls years back, and they said the same exact thing. They didn't know what whey is, and told me not to take it because it was 'unnatural' and that I looked 'fine.' I was ~40 lbs lighter. I was like the fat chick that everyone tries to console, that despite what I suspect, I was ideal as is. I also had a girl I was banging at the same time, that told me I was the scrawniest dude she knew.

5. Lastly here's a thought experiment that I wrote earlier: Say the most effective physique for banging attractive women is something like Brad Pitt's, i.e. visibly smaller than what the typical man can acquire. That means that as a guy got bigger than that, his results with women would get worse.

Now, do you hear guys saying that? "Since my bench went past 250, I've been banging fewer girls..." I don't. I asked guys at a lifting forum, and no one said they were doing worse, since getting bigger.

Even if it were due more to confidence than having the actual muscle, being bigger won out.

Post: #43

While I find this whole thread a bit silly, arguing what body type is the best, if I had to pick what body type I want, Old Spice Guy. He's got a balance of rip and bulk. He's pretty close to what I'd like to look like at the end of the day.

Chef In Jeans
A culinary website for men

Post: #44

(09-24-2011 06:22 PM)basilransom Wrote:  

(09-22-2011 07:23 PM)that guy Wrote:  Lol at Steve Reeves being 100% natural, you lose all credibility for that. Steve Reeves was the one who introduced them to Marnul who introduced them to Arnold. They were legal back in the day and EVERYONE used them. You have no idea what your talking about, you just put up little emoticons in an attempt to be funny because everything you've said has zero substance.

I looked into it, and he may in fact have taken steroids, but there's no solid evidence either way. If he did do it, he probably started after he retired from bodybuilding, as they were introduced around the mid 50's. Reeves won Mr. Universe in 1950. Whatever the case, there are plenty of lifters who were as big as Reeves or bigger without using steroids. Go to any D1 college and you'll see some big guys. The idea that you can't put on a few pounds is ridiculous. You may never look like a top natural lifter, but you can still gain considerable muscle.

(09-23-2011 07:53 PM)Chad Daring Wrote:  "Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars." - Les Brown

Telling guys that they'll never be like the men they're striving to become is a really shitty outlook. We're all here because we decided to stop being average and become something better. Most of us will never be in the legendary tier of men, but if we push for that goal then where we do end up will still put us miles ahead of the rest.

There's no need to promise the moon. A powerful physique is attainable given sufficient effort.

(09-24-2011 04:57 PM)that guy Wrote:  Ummm, actually I'm not skinny at all. My body type is very close to the UFC figure in the first set of pictures (the 2.9%). Anyway, I think you both are completely missing what I am saying our are just out of touch.

Yes, there is an ideal male body type, hence why the majority of women picked the same one. Obviously there are outliers and personality can compensate for anything, but judging strictly by bodytype generally speaking there is an ideal one. In fact, the discussion came up when she saw me drinking a protein shake because she thought I was trying to get even bigger and was trying to talk me out of it.

I'm guessing you are a very muscular person who has no problems getting women, and are attributing your success to your physique even though it really has more to do with some other factor, such as confidence or personality.

Think of the thin but fit man and super muscular man and compare them to a model girl and a pornstar. Most men would marry the model and fuck the pornstar on the side. In the same way, more women would gravitate towards the natural looking male for a relationship partner. Not to mention, alot of women have negative stereotypes about the super muscular men and will put them through more hoops. Now if you asked the women in this survey which guy would you have a one night stand with and never see again, I suspect that the more muscular men would fair better, though I doubt they would overtake Brad Pitt.

Also, it is important to note where you go looking for women. If you are a nightclub guy, I would guess more of those women are the types that prefer the more muscular men. If you are doing alot of daygaming in a coffee shop or bookstore, probably not so much.

1. Having muscle doesn't require you to be a meathead. There's a game blogger who's pretty big, but he makes it a point to not talk about working out and such, and playing up his other interests. The muscles speak for themselves.

2. You said that girls prefer muscular guys for a short term fling. But once you've banged a girl, you've got a lot more leverage over whether you see her again or not. I'd rather be the guy who already had a same night lay, than the guy three dates in with no pussy to speak of.

3. Girls say they want all kinds of things in their future husband. Caring, attentive, yada yada. These traits don't help to attract women.

Same for their desired physique - Consider the typical gaming scenario: You've got a matter of minutes to hook her. Girls don't decide they want to make a man their boyfriend until they've at least banged a few times. If you have to attract a young girl quickly, you want to cater to her short term preferences, what she wants in a fling. And younger girls, i.e. under 25, are rarely even looking for boyfriends. Nowadays the pattern is bang him for a while, and then hope he agrees to be your boyfriend.

And women correctly associate high muscularity with promiscuity, and they don't want a promiscuous husband. They want him to be faithful and stick around. In theory, they don't want a guy who is too 'alpha' because he will be trouble down the road. In reality, they may have trouble resisting the alpha regardless. The hotter the girl, the more alpha she can put up with, because she's better able to keep him. And a study and my personal experience suggest hotter girls like muscles more than the plainer girls.

4. I was living with a couple girls years back, and they said the same exact thing. They didn't know what whey is, and told me not to take it because it was 'unnatural' and that I looked 'fine.' I was ~40 lbs lighter. I was like the fat chick that everyone tries to console, that despite what I suspect, I was ideal as is. I also had a girl I was banging at the same time, that told me I was the scrawniest dude she knew.

5. Lastly here's a thought experiment that I wrote earlier: Say the most effective physique for banging attractive women is something like Brad Pitt's, i.e. visibly smaller than what the typical man can acquire. That means that as a guy got bigger than that, his results with women would get worse.

Now, do you hear guys saying that? "Since my bench went past 250, I've been banging fewer girls..." I don't. I asked guys at a lifting forum, and no one said they were doing worse, since getting bigger.

Even if it were due more to confidence than having the actual muscle, being bigger won out.

Post: #45

(09-24-2011 07:08 PM)Chad Daring Wrote:  While I find this whole thread a bit silly, arguing what body type is the best, if I had to pick what body type I want, Old Spice Guy. He's got a balance of rip and bulk. He's pretty close to what I'd like to look like at the end of the day.

That guy is pretty buffed to say the least and alot of dudes would like to look like that!!!

Post: #46

I think having brad pitt's body is a plus (like blue eyes or height) but it cannot compensate the lack of game.

That said, is not very hard to have a body most girls find attractive. Sure, everyone is different and we are limited by our genetics but with a clean diet and working out 3 days a week you can achieve a nice body in 2 years or so without steroids or even supplements.

This is me
   

Yesterday i was rejected 10 times in a row

Post: #47

It's too simple to say "women prefer this type of physique, period." It completely depends on the guy, his height, his body's bone structure, and his overall style in general.

I currently look somewhat like the 9.8% guy in the first photo set (although not quite as blown up - and not black lol).

I have also looked like the brad pitt 72.5% guy - women are VASTLY more attracted to me by how I look now.

This will totally vary depending on the guy.

Also, the the boys under Lesson #8 will pretty much all look the same in a dress shirt. The 63.2% guy has slightly more developed traps, and might look a *tiny* bit better/bigger.

I agree that it's foolish to go out and try to get massively over-developed for the sheer purpose of attractive women. The ROI is terrible, and many women won't be attracted to you. Now if you enjoy working out, or you want to be big for other reasons (maybe you're a bouncer or work construction) then that's another story.

I think it's actually more valuable to work for the boost in T (confidence) and the pheromones (pheromones attract women) than it is for the visual purpose your bodys appearance.

Post: #48

Vicen, you're fucking things up. Don't tell me you're natural. You're not supposed to be able to build muscle without steroids, god damn it.

Haha at your avatar.

Post: #49

(09-25-2011 02:53 AM)basilransom Wrote:  Vicen, you're fucking things up. Don't tell me you're natural. You're not supposed to be able to build muscle without steroids, god damn it.

I think most guys make those claims because they do not have the patience to stick with a diet plan and workout schedule that does not bring any immediate results. This is the result of us living in a Magic Pill Society where everything is promised to bring overnight changes or they aren't real.

I have had trouble sticking with a steady plan myself. A personal lack of diction is what I blame. Gonna stick with it now though, I can't stand missing out on college pussy just because of my chubbiness.

Post: #50

(09-19-2011 09:23 PM)that guy Wrote:  I asked a girl I'm seeing about this body thing, as she is one who prefers thinner men herself. She said that the reason why is women assume most real muscular men are just working out like that to try to make up for some shortcoming or are insecure with themselves. However they would be great for a one night stand, most women just can't picture them being boyfriend material. So in her mind if you look like that, you will have no shortage of quick flings and one night stands, but for a relationship most women prefer the thinner men. Of course as we all know with the right game anything is possible, but this also goes to show you always need the proper context.

I used to think the way you do, but I no longer do.